How do I keep a demiplane with no door (plane shift in only) from nasties from astral or ethereal plane as well as enemy casters?
Only guaranteed way is to make a magically dead plane but that means you'd have to have a permanent portal to get to and from it. You could build a fortress on the other side to prevent access though. Say, a castle with "Guards and Wards" on it.
Use the subjective magic trait to say only the creator can use conjugation (the teleport school) magic within.
I didn't think about that. But wouldn't that still let them get there. They just couldn't leave, right?
That spell is very open to interpretation. The only RAW sure fire way is the null magic as mentioned. Short of that you and the dm should have a conversation.
Roach motel...... i like it....;)
Don't forget to clean it out once a month or it might start to smell or leaving it as a dumping for villains so they don't make that annoying come back later.
Well, first of all, the invading nasties would have to know about the demiplane in the first place, and unless you've been advertising the fact that you have one, there is no reason to assume they do.
A single scry on you while you're there would do it.
Buri wrote: Only guaranteed way is to make a magically dead plane but that means you'd have to have a permanent portal to get to and from it. You could build a fortress on the other side to prevent access though. Say, a castle with "Guards and Wards" on it. Portal is terrible idea. That opens you up to even more suckage.
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Use the subjective magic trait to say only the creator can use conjugation (the teleport school) magic within.
How would that stop someone from teleporting in though? Or astral/ethereal native nasties? I thought about timelessness trait with dimension anchor carpet bombing and walls of force around the edges, ceilings and walls but thats only so secure.
Mirrel the Marvelous wrote:
Well, first of all, the invading nasties would have to know about the demiplane in the first place, and unless you've been advertising the fact that you have one, there is no reason to assume they do.
Valid point but lets assume they do because GMs never metagame data to NPCs, nasties, right? ;) Anyway lets say an astral nasty comes to see whats up, or a caster with some uberpowerful scry type detection. Whatever the case been discovered me has! How to protect ones self?
Nondetection spell so they can never know where the plane is in the first place?
We've told you what's available through the official rules. If you don't like the options we can't help with that. There are some spells that can prevent teleportation effects such as dimensional lock but that's going to be hella-expensive to apply to an entire demiplane unless you plan on keeping it tiny. Plus, that wouldn't even work against astral plane natives or ethereal creatures. I know of nothing that wards an entire area against divination effects. It's essentially impossible to completely have your own block of existence without it being possible for someone else to detect it as well.
Mind blank would work on you but does nothing for your demiplane. An infernal pact may be what you're looking for but that damns your soul to hell.
Use a mages mansion spell instead. The wording locks that one up pretty tight.
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They don't want a portal. Mage's Private Sanctum is about the best I can find as it blocks divination (scrying) effects in the entire area. So, I guess I found one that does. It still wouldn't guarantee it wouldn't be detected by astral natives.
Make the demiplane somewhere other than the astral. Like a remote mountain on the material plane.
Also the astral is impossible vast. With very few exceptions the place is an endless wasteland with no features or life. If you want to avoid detection on the astral you have statistics on your side.
I think there is a "block astral travel" spell. How about hallow with dimensional anchor?
Grayfeather wrote: Mirrel the Marvelous wrote: Well, first of all, the invading nasties would have to know about the demiplane in the first place, and unless you've been advertising the fact that you have one, there is no reason to assume they do. Valid point but lets assume they do because GMs never metagame data to NPCs, nasties, right? ;) Anyway lets say an astral nasty comes to see whats up, or a caster with some uberpowerful scry type detection. Whatever the case been discovered me has! How to protect ones self?
If you're worried about the GM just concocting a situation where some beastie gets in, why even bother with defenses? If the GM wants to let them in, he'll let them in.
Dimensional anchor doesn't work on creatures that are astral or ethereal at the time the spell was cast. Essentially, astral or ethereal creatures. Per the OP's exact requirements I don't think it can be done.
For a roach motel let it be known just leave out the major detail.
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Buri wrote: We've told you what's available through the official rules. If you don't like the options we can't help with that. There are some spells that can prevent teleportation effects such as dimensional lock but that's going to be hella-expensive to apply to an entire demiplane unless you plan on keeping it tiny. Plus, that wouldn't even work against astral plane natives or ethereal creatures. I know of nothing that wards an entire area against divination effects. It's essentially impossible to completely have your own block of existence without it being possible for someone else to detect it as well.
Mind blank would work on you but does nothing for your demiplane. An infernal pact may be what you're looking for but that damns your soul to hell.
Buri I didn't mean to sound negative, I know what the demiplane spell does, im more thinking what to layer with it. So far thinking:
In the plane:
Various summoned creatures on patrol
Mage's sanctum, Dimensional lock, Hallow, Forbiddance, Alarm everywhere
Hero's Feast (not sure how that would work)
Invisibility purge all over
Various programmed illusionary "me", Simulacrum with disguise self, and shadow versions of myself walking around
Mages mansion as my residence, secure shelters for humanoids, tiny huts for summons creatures to sleep in. Guards and wards throughout. Clustered near by like a small village.
Apprentices on the grounds to aid is needed
Clone nearby
Wall of force walls (mentions blocking ethereal creatures, maybe astral too?)
On myself (sure i missed some and many overlap but for the cost of a scroll why not when its always on while you're there)
Contingency breath of life if i die
Mind blank
Resist energy
Protection from energy
Protection from Arrows
Protection from Spells
Protection from evil
Greater Spell Immunity
Spell Turning
Nondection
Moment of Prescience
Mind Blank
Antilife shell
True seeing
Greater Arcane sight
Detect Magic
Detect Poison
Detect Undead
Detect Charm
Dect the faithful
Darkvision
See Alignment
See invisibility
Spell gauge
Comprehend languages
Tongues
Detect thoughts
Seek Thoughts
Discern Lies
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Greater invisibility
Hide form undead
Deathward
Fly
Levitate
Freedom of movement
Spider Climb
Feather fall
False life
Stoneskin
Mage Armor
Shield
Displacement
Mirror image
Greater heroism
Transformation
Paragon Surge
Prismatic sphere (to sleep in)
Foresight
Entropic shield
Bless
Shield of faith
Divine Favor
Consecrate
Find Traps
Grace
Delay Pain
Water breathing
Water walk
Wrathful Mantle
Aura of Doom
Blessing of Fervor
Life Bubble
Spell Resistance
Regenerate
Repulsion
Holy Aura
Overwhelming Presence
Any more ideas?
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Are we just writing up any spells with /personal/ range on wizard list?
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Grayfeather wrote: How do I keep a demiplane with no door (plane shift in only) from nasties from astral or ethereal plane as well as enemy casters? Keeping it from being known in the first place is a prime strategy. As the saying goes... "Two men can keep a secret if one of them is dead."
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Layered Demi-Planes.
The first is small, well defended and only specific magics work. It has a portal leading to the second demi-plane. Planar travel is possible here and is the only means of egress other than the portal.
The second demi-plane has no magic and iron golems guarding the portal.
Specifics for the first demi-plane should include the following:
- The school of divination is non-functional
- The school of illusion is functional
- The spell Screen is in place, concealing the portal and the defenders.
@LazarX Dead men do tell tales.
I agree secrecy is your first and best line of defense.
Note that as written Plane Shift is likely not a feasible way onto your demiplane. You will arrive 5 to 500 miles off target. Not quite sure what this means if you are Plane Shifting to a plane/demiplane of limited small size, which at least initially yours almost certainly is, but thinking it can't be good. You need a Gate spell to do it without a permanent portal.
I'd want to keep the number of non permanent spells/effects to a minimum and try to keep those in the 24 hour or 1 day/lvl categories. If not permanent then someone (you most likely given secrecy concerns) is losing those spells and spell slots from their prepared list (or otherwise using resources). This would make your list above needing a fair bit of trimming I suspect.
Mage's Private Sanctum and Forbiddance are likely the best one two spell combo for preventing access to and divination of the area (and at the same time allow you to use divination while on your demiplane which a Limited Magic planar trait would not)
Don't overlook this bit from the section on Divination [Scrying]:
Quote: A creature can notice the sensor by making a Perception check with a DC 20 + the spell level. The sensor can be dispelled as if it were an active spell. Add Detect Scrying to your list of personal active spells.
Use Sequester on LasarX's dead men after hiding them in a vault on your demiplane *wink*
Artanthos wrote: Layered Demi-Planes.
The first is small, well defended and only specific magics work. It has a portal leading to the second demi-plane. Planar travel is possible here and is the only means of egress other than the portal.
The second demi-plane has no magic and iron golems guarding the portal.
Specifics for the first demi-plane should include the following:
The school of divination is non-functional
The school of illusion is functional
The spell Screen is in place, concealing the portal and the defenders.
Well thought out sir. Think we're on to something here. I was thinking last night about a 2nd demiplane as well but more as a landing zone as a buffer for someone who got in would then need to Plane Shift to the second demiplane that they might not know of.
There is still the matter of astral/ethereal issues but I'd thinking these are going to be minor if Wall of Force at least gives me a first line of defense to know something is up.
Kayerloth wrote: I agree secrecy is your first and best line of defense.
Note that as written Plane Shift is likely not a feasible way onto your demiplane. You will arrive 5 to 500 miles off target. Not quite sure what this means if you are Plane Shifting to a plane/demiplane of limited small size, which at least initially yours almost certainly is, but thinking it can't be good. You need a Gate spell to do it without a permanent portal.
I'd want to keep the number of non permanent spells/effects to a minimum and try to keep those in the 24 hour or 1 day/lvl categories. If not permanent then someone (you most likely given secrecy concerns) is losing those spells and spell slots from their prepared list (or otherwise using resources). This would make your list above needing a fair bit of trimming I suspect.
Mage's Private Sanctum and Forbiddance are likely the best one two spell combo for preventing access to and divination of the area (and at the same time allow you to use divination while on your demiplane which a Limited Magic planar trait would not)
Don't overlook this bit from the section on Divination [Scrying]:
Quote: A creature can notice the sensor by making a Perception check with a DC 20 + the spell level. The sensor can be dispelled as if it were an active spell. Add Detect Scrying to your list of personal active spells.
Ok I have a few issues here. First it specifically says in the demiplane spell Creatures can only enter the plane by the use of planar travel magic such as astral projection, etherealness, or plane shift.
Secondly a plane is a container. You're either in the plane or your in another plane, not slightly outside the plane. So PS into a small plane means worst that can happen is you're at one extreme or another inside the small space of that plane. So no Gate needed.
Third I mentioned the spells would be scrolls but in a timeless trait plane they are permanent spells until i leave. This doesn't mean I can use spell slots and remem spells. Please read how the timeless trait works on planes.
Detect Scrying is a good catch, thanks.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Artanthos wrote:
@LazarX Dead men do tell tales.
Can't cast Speak With Dead if you eliminate the body.
Kayerloth wrote: Use Sequester on LasarX's dead men after hiding them in a vault on your demiplane *wink* Attach Trap the Soul spells to their final payment.
There is also another line of defense in order to plane shift you need
F (a forked metal rod attuned to the plane of travel)
I can see how you might get that for a one of the major planes, but a private demiplane?
fictionfan wrote: There is also another line of defense in order to plane shift you need
F (a forked metal rod attuned to the plane of travel)
I can see how you might get that for a one of the major planes, but a private demiplane?
Oh my, clever catch. I guess thats step one when I arrive there myself ^_^
However gate does not need that so level 17th and up can still get in.
Creatures using plane shift as an SLA won't be limited either.
fictionfan wrote: There is also another line of defense in order to plane shift you need
F (a forked metal rod attuned to the plane of travel)
I can see how you might get that for a one of the major planes, but a private demiplane?
Yeah, I was just about to post this. They can't plane shift in without a focus that'll get them there.
It also might be argued that anyone with Eschew Materials could get in.
Nevermind re-read it only works for material components not Focus.
fictionfan wrote: However gate does not need that so level 17th and up can still get in. But can Gate take you to a plane you've never been to and know nothing about. It only says "a gate spell functions much like a plane shift spell, except that the gate opens precisely at the point you desire"
What if you don't know the location, I don't think "Take me to where ever Grayfeather is right now" is going to fly as Plane Shift you have to know where you're going.
Also back on the subject of warding off jerkwads that want to come in. I'm going to be perma-storing something here thats going to be very desirable (an evil artifact). That means its going to be a targeted location of powerful evil casters, demons, yada yada. I would like to not wake up to a legion of Pit Fiends digging up my front lawn.
Which one just for the sake of my curiosity?
fictionfan wrote: Which one just for the sake of my curiosity?
** spoiler omitted **
No, a homebrew. More of a mega-artifact. Its a staff containing one of the insane evil older gods. Think Lovecraft kind of evil. Not something you want just walking around on a prime.
Grayfeather wrote: fictionfan wrote: Which one just for the sake of my curiosity?
** spoiler omitted **
No, a homebrew. More of a mega-artifact. Its a staff containing one of the insane evil older gods. Think Lovecraft kind of evil. Not something you want just walking around on a prime. BTW I'm working on a custom version of repulsion/confusion/suggestion that closer you get to the item (which will be buried deep) it gets worse as you get closer, hopefully making someone forget why the hell they're at the spot to begin with.
If you're trying to hide an evil artifact the "anti magic pit full of golems" plane idea is probably the way to go.
Couldn't that likely release the spirit as the binding effect vanishes? Sounds like a homebrew campaign so that might not be the case but I would ask my GM.
For storing an evil artifact:
Anti-magic demi-plane with a portal leading to a secondary demi-plane. Many golems in the anti-magic plane.
Secondary demi-plane is not permanent. You will dismiss once no longer needed.
Golems have orders to destroy the portal as soon as you exit. From that point onward, they destroy all intruders.
Of course, there is always DM fiat in circumventing any defense.
Throw it in a Sphere of Annihilation no one is getting from there.
Quote: Ok I have a few issues here. First it specifically says in the demiplane spell Creatures can only enter the plane by the use of planar travel magic such as astral projection, etherealness, or plane shift.
Secondly a plane is a container. You're either in the plane or your in another plane, not slightly outside the plane. So PS into a small plane means worst that can happen is you're at one extreme or another inside the small space of that plane. So no Gate needed.
Third I mentioned the spells would be scrolls but in a timeless trait plane they are permanent spells until i leave. This doesn't mean I can use spell slots and remem spells. Please read how the timeless trait works on planes.
I don't think astral projection, etherealness and plane shift are the only ways in. The language 'such as', to me anyway, means they are examples of methods possible. You may very well be right about what happens if plane shift lands you off target. Best bet there is run it by your GM as it's really their call. The situation isn't really covered in the rules near as I can tell. The rules seem to be assuming an infinite plane.
If you picked Timeless as a planar trait my bad I missed it. I thought it was all still theory and planning.
You can't astral project into a place that has no magic.
Astral projection is subject to dispel magic.
Artanthos wrote: You can't astral project into a place that has no magic.
Astral projection is subject to dispel magic.
Is there RAW on this. My understanding is you can use magic to move into an anti-magic/ no magic zone, just not within it. For example you could dimension step into a mage's antimagic radius but not back out.
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