Sorry folks but:
Of course you realize this was already pointed out earlier and an alternative method was noted.
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Sorry folks but:
PRD - "When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have."
Note that, that doesn't apply to instantaneous abilities and spells, otherwise, all the damage your summoned creature's fireball did would disappear as well.
Of course you realize this was already pointed out earlier and an alternative method was noted.
My bad. I thought we were still talking about summoning.
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I still think the lantern's primary utility comes from the fact he's got a projectile weapon. He's not reliant on forming a wall, and the things can be assigned to PCs like Options from Strider if cast by a summoner.
Your barbarian becomes much more dangerous if he's got a buddy lantern archon following him around, shooting his foes, and casting supporting magic on him as he needs it while also projecting his aura of menace (meager though it be).
It also acts like a torch for him.
Lemures (who are ineffective speed bumps by the time you get these) and dretches (who are just stinking clouds on legs) can't hold a candle to these guys.
Of course you realize this was already pointed out earlier and an alternative method was noted.My bad. I thought we were still talking about summoning.
No worries. It's easy to miss stuff in threads. It happens to all of us sometimes. Also, I hope your day is going well. ^-^
This is also one of the reasons the Pit Fiend is so terrible! It can cast trap the soul on you without having to spew up a gemstone costing thousands of gold pieces. Your soul gets trapped as a soul gem but it doesn't require a gem to begin with!Ghosts and other beings that magic jar without a receptacle are worse. They possess your body and your soul is in that unfortunate position of having nowhere to go since there is no receptacle for it to be switched into. That's an instant death.
That seems plausible. Though I will admit I would probably rule that you were basically possessed and regained your body when the force left, as as best as I can tell using magic jar as a SLA would also slay the ghost or shadow demon or whatever due to a lack of body if it was interpreted that way. I think possession is probably what was supposed to happen here since there is no receptacle for either subject.
YMMV. ^.^"
I have not seen a rebuttal to RD's point that the "continual flame" spells would end when the archon's summoning expires.
You're not Summoning the Archon, you're Calling him with Planar Binding. The Archon has been physically transported to your Plane, and can use all abilities without restriction.
This is also one of the reasons the Pit Fiend is so terrible! It can cast trap the soul on you without having to spew up a gemstone costing thousands of gold pieces. Your soul gets trapped as a soul gem but it doesn't require a gem to begin with!Ghosts and other beings that magic jar without a receptacle are worse. They possess your body and your soul is in that unfortunate position of having nowhere to go since there is no receptacle for it to be switched into. That's an instant death.That seems plausible. Though I will admit I would probably rule that you were basically possessed and regained your body when the force left, as as best as I can tell using magic jar as a SLA would also slay the ghost or shadow demon or whatever due to a lack of body if it was interpreted that way. I think possession is probably what was supposed to happen here since there is no receptacle for either subject.
YMMV. ^.^"
When I saw the mechanics it definitely screams possession. If there is no receptacle for the soul to be forced into, it seems logical that the soul just sits in limbo. Given that the creatures that use this power have no bodies, interpreting it so that you die without the receptacle means that they too would die the moment they left the possessed body and had no physical body to return to.
It seems that giving a creature an ability that caused it to self-destruct is pretty counter productive. And if you replace the gem or large crystal with "nothing" as would be the case for the SLA, you place your soul or the victim's soul into "nothing" but it's still getting placed there. Kind of like a limbo of sorts. Like being stuck in the RAM of a computer rather than the hard memory. When the process is done (such as the spell expires) then it dumps everyone back where they belong.
At least, that's the understanding I came to when reading it.
Summoned creatures can't use SLAs that mimic spells with an expensive material component in Pathfinder unless you provide that component, Ashiel. Was a bigger rude awakening to me than the inability to use their teleport.
Edit: Actually, in rereading the spell description while writing this response, I noticed that it simply flat out prevents the casting of any SLA that mimics a spell with an expensive material component. You can't even provide one for the monster, it appears. How droll.
Why not?? SLA's have NO material components.
Spell-Like Abilities Spell-Like Abilities (Sp) Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, focus, or material components). They go away in an antimagic field and are subject to spell resistance if the spell the ability is based on would be subject to spell resistance.
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Aligned arrows on a ranger's quiver, and these guys are pretty much dead meat. or any decent spell effect will take them down. If needs be, one chain lightning will take out a room full of these guys if you need precision, fireball if you don't.
Well, they happen to be immune to lightning.
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Anyway, by my reading of the Aura of Menace, if you've failed a saving throw, you suck for 24 hours unless you manage to hit the LA. So if it just buzzes past an army at its 60 fly speed, a big chunk of that army's gonna be dismayed for the rest of the combat if the LA will then just stay out of reach...
Summoned creatures can't use SLAs that mimic spells with an expensive material component in Pathfinder unless you provide that component, Ashiel. Was a bigger rude awakening to me than the inability to use their teleport.
Edit: Actually, in rereading the spell description while writing this response, I noticed that it simply flat out prevents the casting of any SLA that mimics a spell with an expensive material component. You can't even provide one for the monster, it appears. How droll.
Why not?? SLA's have NO material components.
Spell-Like Abilities Spell-Like Abilities (Sp) Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, focus, or material components). They go away in an antimagic field and are subject to spell resistance if the spell the ability is based on would be subject to spell resistance.
Pay close attention to the rules for Summon Monster. Creatures summoned cannot use SLAs that mimic spells with expensive material components. It doesn't matter that the SLA itself doesn't have a material component. The spell it mimics does, which prevents the creature from using it unless you use a Calling effect, like Planar Binding.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Why not?? SLA's have NO material components.
Spell-Like Abilities Spell-Like Abilities (Sp) Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, focus, or material components). They go away in an antimagic field and are subject to spell resistance if the spell the ability is based on would be subject to spell resistance.
As has already been mentioned upthread...
Creatures summoned using this spell cannot use spells or spell-like abilities that duplicate spells with expensive material components (such as wish).
EDIT: Woah - double ninja'd!
Note that, that doesn't apply to instantaneous abilities and spells, otherwise, all the damage your summoned creature's fireball did would disappear as well.Sorry folks but:
PRD - "When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have."
Maybe this should be a rule, the damage is converted to nonlethal?
Make Pit Fiends who summon friends less scary. :P
Monsters summoned by Summon Monster themselves cannot summon others.
One good use for a batter of lantern archons is to use them for action denial: have them ready actions to plink enemy spellcasters as they attempt to cast their spells.
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The problem I find with lantern archons is that they make certain encounters trivially easy. I tend to run adventure paths these days, and it gets a bit wearing if there are a string of these easy encounters in a row. (For example, 6 lantern archons versus a grey render is no contest.)
This is particularly a problem if the PCs have a round or two to prepare for the fight.
And each NPC having to make 8 aura of menace saving throws (and keeping track of which archons were responsible for failed saves) is incredibly tedious. I usually house rule that if the NPC could only fail on a 1 or a 2 then he gets to auto succeed against the aura.
I hadn't realised lantern archons used to be Summon Monster IV. I might make them IV again.
(For example, 6 lantern archons versus a grey render is no contest.)
Couldnt a gray render, with 25 STR, throw objects at the archons? Like a rock or a tree (they deal double damage to objects anyway).
Seems unlikely with their 3 INT though. The most reasoable action would be run away. The Render has 30 ft move, which can go up to 120 with 4x move (withdraw action), while the archons can double move with 120 ft. So the render MAY get away if he run into a forest or a cave and the archos cant fly at full speed after him.
The lantern archons have DR 10/Evil, Aura of Menace can impart -2 to attacks (increasingly likely with each Archon present) and unless the Gray Render is for some reason already carrying stuff to throw he's going to be eating actions to get stuff to throw.
Lantern archons with haste, good hope, and inspire courage are hilarious. Especially if you have 10 or so of them.
My conjurer (working with the bard) only did that a few times, but the laser array usually got excellent results on the few occasions where I had both the opportunity and the circumstances to deploy it.
I suppose they're significantly weaker if your table takes the stance that buffs don't work with the light rays.
Aura of Menace
The aura has a 20 ft radius, so unless they want to risk getting jumped by a 10-ft reach large monster, they will avoid getting any closer than 30 feet.
Although, with their 13 dex that is highly unlikely.
EDIT
Just for the sake of the argument:
A high jump is a vertical leap made to reach a ledge high above or to grasp something overhead.If you jumped up to grab something, a successful check indicates that you reached the desired height.
Large 16 ft.
But the DC for that is simply too high for a render.
unless the Gray Render is for some reason already carrying stuff to throw he's going to be eating actions to get stuff to throw.
I have yet to see a GM doing this, though it would be hilarious:
"reports claim to have witnessed a gray render uprooting a fully grown tree and tearing it to splinters in order to catch prey hiding within."
What would be the reach of a tree?
And what would be his attack? Normal -4 penalty? He attacks with +14, so archons with 15 AC would get smashed pretty hard if they dont keep their distance.