How many points will we get to distribute on our characters abilities?


Pathfinder Online

Goblin Squad Member

And by that I mean on the STR, DEX, CON and so forth or will it be rolled by dice like in Baldur's Gate?

Goblin Squad Member

It definitely won't be rolled by dice.

I'm assuming you don't know a lot about this game, so:

This is not an incarnation of the table top game. Tabletop mechanics do not work in an MMO environment. Don't argue against this, that argument already took place for the first 6 months after the game announcement.

Character Attributes represent their ability to train skills of certain types, and resistances towards certain actions.

A high strength does not mean you deal more damage, it means you train strength based skills faster.

I suggest you read all of the goblinworks blogs, I organized them in an easier to read format here

It is easier for us and you if you just read everything carefully, otherwise you will spend more time here asking questions than it would take to just read through everything. The bold titles deal with the game mechanics, and you can ignore the others.

If you want a better idea of how the attributes would work, play Eve Online for a bit, PFO's system will be very similar.

Goblin Squad Member

The Shameless One wrote:
And by that I mean on the STR, DEX, CON and so forth or will it be rolled by dice like in Baldur's Gate?

We don't know very much about how character creation will work, or whether you will get to 'roll' a random number for each attribute or whether you will be given a total number to distribute according to your intended role.

We do know that your attribute score will work significantly different from the way it works in tabletop or, actually, any other character attribute game other than possibly Eve.

The developer shared that your attributes will determine how quickly/easily your character will learn skills. That means that rather than having amazing strength at '18', the fighter with 18 strength will learn strength dependent skills faster than he would were his strength 12.

I believe this difference is part of the 'very shallow power curve' that intends starting characters will be viable versus more advanced characters: though the variety of skills will be limited for the new character they should be able to defend themselves even against characters who have been played for months.

Goblin Squad Member

What if PFO doesn't resemble Pathfinder pen and paper besides the world that it takes place in, is this good or bad for you the fans of Pathfinder?

Goblin Squad Member

The Shameless One wrote:

What if PFO doesn't resemble Pathfinder pen and paper besides the world that it takes place in, is this good or bad for you the fans of Pathfinder?

I'm an old school pnp Dungeons and Dragons player. So far it sounds like PFO is going to do a GREAT job of translating the rules and mechanics into viable online system.

Maybe even better...

Let's face it, the only thing keeping Pathfinder/D&D from moving to an open class-less system is tradition. PFO's hybrid no-class/profession badge system promises to be a nifty happy medium.

Goblin Squad Member

The Shameless One wrote:
What if PFO doesn't resemble Pathfinder pen and paper besides the world that it takes place in, is this good or bad for you the fans of Pathfinder?

Depends, doesn't it? In PnP two GMs can present very different games even though both are Pathfinder.

I don't think we can well argue that it won' matter because we, or at least I, would rather have many more accomplished role players in the game than fewer, so I hope PnP Pathfinders join us.

But beyond that what matters is that the game system provides us with the right tools well built that will allow us to create our own adventures within it, and with so many others of our kind.

It isn't going to be completely like PnP Pathfinder since it isn't limited to six player characters in a bubble of imagined reality cast upon us by a live GM.

It should however give us a consistent environment filled with props to use, places to go, and things to do including those things that could not be done if we didn't have interplayer combat possible.

At the same time that interplayer combat is clearly to be regulated so it will not get in the way of our play.

Really, if GW does their job (and I think it will be monumental if they succeed at it), then whether the game is good will depend primarily on how well we use it to craft our adventures. If they do their job well enough then it should be our own fault as the players if the game fails.

PFO is only supposed to resemble the world PFO takes place in: The rest, good or bad, should be up to our own skills and preferences.

Goblin Squad Member

A couple thoughts on this topic..

1> There is really no way to mimic a pen/paper game if you intend upon involving more than 5-8 players. The whole game design of pen/paper games is based on a party of players not a city, or multiple cities, of players. The game design just doesn't map from pen/paper to MMO.

So, I would suggest people who have an expectation of playing a pen/paper game online will be disappointed. Whereas fans of Pathfinder and the genre who are looking forward to a sandbox MMO will love it.

For that matter, I expect lots of players who expect a more themepark MMO style game will be disappointed as well.

2> Back to the original question. If you take a minute to think about the math the answer to your question is "It doesn't matter".

Why? Because If they came back and said 50 points that would be functionally NO different than if they said 500 points, as long as the gameworld was scaled and balanced accordingly.

Numbers are meaningless without the context of how those numbers fit into the mathematics of the game.

My guess? We'll see a relatively "flat" raw attribute base. From that skills will be the largest impact to power with gear being a close second (only really because gear grinds of some sort are pretty well established gaming norms...not beacuse I think it'd be the best way to go)

So in the end it won't matter what point values you start with. What you do with the character after it's created and what gear you accumulate will likely affect your characters power curve FAR more.

Goblin Squad Member

I would prefer attributes are done like they were in EQ2 or the like.
Each race has set ability scores, then what you do with then later is up to you (skills, class features, ability increases, etc.)
I hope this game isn't like DDO where you have minimums for certain stats, regardless of class pick, or you will just fail.

Goblin Squad Member

Kryzbyn wrote:

I would prefer attributes are done like they were in EQ2 or the like.

Each race has set ability scores, then what you do with then later is up to you (skills, class features, ability increases, etc.)
I hope this game isn't like DDO where you have minimums for certain stats, regardless of class pick, or you will just fail.

Not to worry: attribute scores will dictate how quickly you learn skills related to them instead of how powerful that attribute will be. That is, if your thief has 18 dex it means you will learn to roll when you dodge fastr than he would if he had dex 12.

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

If you want a MMO that is like PnP in it's rules, then one has been out for quite some time: D&D Online. It's not a perfect translation, but it is the closest of any MMO on the market. It is a theme park with boring repetitive quests and grinding from 1 to 20 over-and-over in order to gain True Reincarnation benefits, and players make no real impact on the world, but the rules are pretty close to PnP.

If you want a sandbox with all of the flavor of the pathfinder world but with meaningful human interaction and a persistent world where player can actually create something in game that will last for years, then the PnP rules can be left behind without loosing anything meaningful.

Goblin Squad Member

The Shameless One wrote:

What if PFO doesn't resemble Pathfinder pen and paper besides the world that it takes place in, is this good or bad for you the fans of Pathfinder?

As much as I'd like a Pathfinder translation* to a video game (like Temple of Elemental Evil), I'm still eagerly excited for a Pathfinder MMO. I understand that the rules don't translate well as well.

--
I seriously doubt stats will be rolled. If the tabletop game is anything to go off of, it just unbalances everyone. I think it will be a point buy or something like that (along with racial bonuses changing that)

*From what I've read, however, the Open Game License prevents someone from making a Pathfinder video game based off the tabletop rules.

Goblin Squad Member

From Goblinworks Blog: Your Pathfinder Online Character:

Ryan Dancey wrote:
thenoisyrogue wrote:
How do you intend to handle attribute generation?
I expect to use one of the Pathfinder TRPG point-buy mechanisms.

That would be one of the options from the "Purchase" method from Generating Ability Scores.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:

From Goblinworks Blog: Your Pathfinder Online Character:

Ryan Dancey wrote:
thenoisyrogue wrote:
How do you intend to handle attribute generation?
I expect to use one of the Pathfinder TRPG point-buy mechanisms.
That would be one of the options from the "Purchase" method from Generating Ability Scores.

This is exactly what I asked in my original post and what I'm asking is: what is the campaign type / fantasy setting for PFO i.e. how many points do we get to distribute?

Goblin Squad Member

The Shameless One wrote:
... how many points do we get to distribute?

We don't know yet, and probably won't for quite some time. I don't think that number will mean much without also knowing how long it will take to train a skill at various attribute point values and how many skills we'll need to train in order to gain each Role (Class) Merit Badge.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:

From Goblinworks Blog: Your Pathfinder Online Character:

Ryan Dancey wrote:
thenoisyrogue wrote:
How do you intend to handle attribute generation?
I expect to use one of the Pathfinder TRPG point-buy mechanisms.
That would be one of the options from the "Purchase" method from Generating Ability Scores.

Disappointing, but not unexpected I guess.

Not a major sticking point.

Goblin Squad Member

The Shameless One wrote:
Nihimon wrote:

From Goblinworks Blog: Your Pathfinder Online Character:

Ryan Dancey wrote:
thenoisyrogue wrote:
How do you intend to handle attribute generation?
I expect to use one of the Pathfinder TRPG point-buy mechanisms.
That would be one of the options from the "Purchase" method from Generating Ability Scores.
This is exactly what I asked in my original post and what I'm asking is: what is the campaign type / fantasy setting for PFO i.e. how many points do we get to distribute?

Currently unknown, and we know too little of the design of the game for it to have any significant meaning anyway. Whether it is 25 point buy, or 500 point buy really has no meaning on anything, as we don't know exactly how much 1 means when it comes to training speed, or resistances.

Just as the fact that most characters HP will most likely be over 1000, instead of multiples of D6-12's.

Character planning the stats of your character based on the P&P game, will not really assist or have any bearing. PFO will be pathfinder in the same way pathfinder tales is pathfinder, and our knowledge of what 1 point of any stat means, is currently as limited as what one would know in character.

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
The Shameless One wrote:
... how many points do we get to distribute?

We don't know yet, and probably won't for quite some time. I don't think that number will mean much without also knowing how long it will take to train a skill at various attribute point values and how many skills we'll need to train in order to gain each Role (Class) Merit Badge.

I expect it may change during EE as well depending on how quickly we do different things and how quickly the attributes affect training. If someone maxes STR and CON to focus on a Barbarian themed character, how much of an advantage and for how long will they have in combat vs someone who decided to mix STR, DEX, CON, and WIS to make a Monk who by necessity will take longer to train those skills?

Goblin Squad Member

I'm bumping this thread in the hopes of a response from Goblinworks Inc.

Goblin Squad Member

Imbicatus wrote:
Nihimon wrote:
The Shameless One wrote:
... how many points do we get to distribute?

We don't know yet, and probably won't for quite some time. I don't think that number will mean much without also knowing how long it will take to train a skill at various attribute point values and how many skills we'll need to train in order to gain each Role (Class) Merit Badge.

I expect it may change during EE as well depending on how quickly we do different things and how quickly the attributes affect training. If someone maxes STR and CON to focus on a Barbarian themed character, how much of an advantage and for how long will they have in combat vs someone who decided to mix STR, DEX, CON, and WIS to make a Monk who by necessity will take longer to train those skills?

Where 'advantage in combat' evaluates to 'speed of skill acquisition' we might predict that a character who allocates advantage to two stats will have an advantage in those stats greater than the character who allocates the same advantage spread over four stats, and so long as the context of advantage focuses on STR and CON that advantage will be significant in the value of the trained advantages. However that advantage will erode rapidly where the context focuses on CON and WIS as well, and confers half as significant an advantage to the generalist in a context emphasizing Con and Wis skills.

tl:dr: Follow Sun Tsu's advice and choose the battlefield where the advantage is yours and not the enemy's.

Goblin Squad Member

The Shameless One wrote:
I'm bumping this thread in the hopes of a response from Goblinworks Inc.

You still seem to be thinking this is going to be an online version of PF:RPG.

Doing any comparison between this game and the PnP is damaging to your own enjoyment. Don't think that any experience in the PnP will help you play PFO better. Planning anything around the PnP is only going to lead to disappointment.

If goblinworks tells you "50 points," that is meaningless to you, because you don't know what effects they have.

You need to just wait for a blog post that discusses character attributes, which is probably a ways down the road.

Goblin Squad Member

Indeed, the system could be a trillion point buy yet would still be meaningless without knowing the cost of stat advancement at each point.


Ryan also stated a few times that when a new player enters the game he is a complete newb and is going to go (through the ropes) I assume he will learn combat skill learning and item managment/ownership with expansion tutorials on crafting/harvesting. Ryan has stated this will be a fairly short time period so I would assume the skills training time for these will be in minuts or hours not days or weeks. I would also wager a months subsciption that the highest lvl skills 19-20 tiers merits wil be close to or over a month long training and a nasty quest for the merit. such as ok you have reached equivelent of 20th lvl combat for a warrior now go to bloodmire arena and win 20 consecutive battles without healing potions.

Goblin Squad Member

htrajan wrote:
Indeed, the system could be a trillion point buy yet would still be meaningless without knowing the cost of stat advancement at each point.

Still meaningless if you don't know the effect of each point.

You'll probably see a system of diminishing returns where you don't spend 3 point for 1 point, but 1 point for 1 point and the higher the points the less the benefit increase.

Something even:

20 - 100%
20 - 100%
20 - 100%
20 - 100%

or give a boost to one:

50 - 150%
10 - 70%
10 - 70%
10 - 70%

Goblin Squad Member

Valkenr wrote:
Tabletop mechanics do not work in an MMO environment. Don't argue against this, that argument already took place for the first 6 months after the game announcement.

For the record, this is not a truism, and not everyone agrees with the first half of this statement (even among those of us who were there for the early discussion). There is a world of difference between "We want to do it another way"...and "It is impossible to do it that way", no matter what the official statement was.

For those who care, my impression of why GW has not tried to stay true to the PFPnP dynamics was not because of impossibility, rather it was because the early Goblinworks group started with a vision in mind of an improved MMO. That vision fixed many of what they saw as issues with previous MMOs. The goal from the beginning was to build this "better" game in the Golarion setting. PFPnP rules were never part of the plan.

This argument Valkenr speaks of was nothing more than (correctly) pointing out to those of us who objected that Pathfinder was first and foremost a campaign setting. Evidently Golarion existed as the Pathfinder setting even before Paizo gave us the awesome ruleset which many of us know and love as Pathfinder.

That said, to debate the point, I bet Pathfinder PnP, with minimal specification addition and next to nil rule modification, could be run as a purely mathematical construct. That is all any computer program is.

EDIT: And personally, I enjoy reading new discussion on old topics, especially in light of how much the community has grown/changed (influx of new ideas)...and especially now that GW is actually getting down to making discussion and giving us new information, as opposed to the pure speculation that was occurring during many of our older discussions happened.

Scarab Sages Goblinworks Executive Founder

Valkenr wrote:


You still seem to be thinking this is going to be an online version of PF:RPG.

Doing any comparison between this game and the PnP is damaging to your own enjoyment. Don't think that any experience in the PnP will help you play PFO better. Planning anything around the PnP is only going to lead to disappointment.

Just a side note Ryan did specifically say that they intended to build on familiarity with the tabletop game.

Ryan Dancey wrote:
Our objective is to make a game that is familiar to tabletop players. A game where they're going to feel comfortable with how things work and their intuitive grasp of the game will be aided by what they know about how the tabletop game works.

Goblin Squad Member

The interest in point buy from old-school PnP players is understandable.

A huge part of the fun of starting an offline campaign is looking at character builds and in the case of a min-max build minor adjustments to point buy can have a huge effect on the character 15 levels later, especially if your trying to create an effective caster.

However it has been made pretty obvious that min-maxing is not likely to be an effective technique in the new system. How attributes effect saves, spell penetration, number of spells available, combat effectiveness etc etc are all unknowns.

Goblin Squad Member

Dakcenturi wrote:
Valkenr wrote:


You still seem to be thinking this is going to be an online version of PF:RPG.

Doing any comparison between this game and the PnP is damaging to your own enjoyment. Don't think that any experience in the PnP will help you play PFO better. Planning anything around the PnP is only going to lead to disappointment.

Just a side note Ryan did specifically say that they intended to build on familiarity with the tabletop game.

Ryan Dancey wrote:
Our objective is to make a game that is familiar to tabletop players. A game where they're going to feel comfortable with how things work and their intuitive grasp of the game will be aided by what they know about how the tabletop game works.

A general knowledge of things like "healing damages undead" and "Fireball is an AOE" will help you. Farmiliarity with the game will give you some insight, but thinking in terms of tabletop mechanics(dice rolls, initiative, damage numbers) won't help.

Goblin Squad Member

As far as we've heard so far they have NO affect on any of those things, beyond time, since all they've told us so far is they affect training time of skills related to that attribute.

Goblin Squad Member

IronVanguard wrote:
As far as we've heard so far they have NO affect on any of those things, beyond time, since all they've told us so far is they affect training time of skills related to that attribute.

They also determine resistances. It's one of the first few blogs, I think "your pathfinder online character"

PFO won't have saving rolls, but resistances that lower the magnitude of certain effects.

Goblin Squad Member

IronVanguard wrote:
As far as we've heard so far they have NO affect on any of those things, beyond time, since all they've told us so far is they affect training time of skills related to that attribute.

So basically you could build two characters with totally different stats and identical skill sets and in-game they are identical its just one cost more in real dollars becasue his training took longer :D

EDIT: I do hope there will at least be a minimum stat requirement to achieve certain high level skill sets to differentiate a little between builds.

Goblin Squad Member

Valkenr wrote:
IronVanguard wrote:
As far as we've heard so far they have NO affect on any of those things, beyond time, since all they've told us so far is they affect training time of skills related to that attribute.

They also determine resistances. It's one of the first few blogs, I think "your pathfinder online character"

PFO won't have saving rolls, but resistances that lower the magnitude of certain effects.

Ah, right, completely slipped my mind. There's that too.

That's all we know at the moment, at least. Like all things I suppose this is all subject to change, in theory.

Neadenil Edam wrote:
IronVanguard wrote:
As far as we've heard so far they have NO affect on any of those things, beyond time, since all they've told us so far is they affect training time of skills related to that attribute.

So basically you could build two characters with totally different stats and identical skill sets and in-game they are identical its just one cost more in real dollars becasue his training took longer :D

EDIT: I do hope there will at least be a minimum stat requirement to achieve certain high level skill sets to differentiate a little between builds.

As far as we know.

Perhaps, if that information is up front and maybe if you can change up attributes later.

Don't want to get 2.5 years in and find out you're just a point short of that final skill you want.

Goblin Squad Member

I would expect something like EvE where you can change your attributes once a year or so, so you can facilitate a change in direction, and aren't penalized forever if you spec into dexterity based training, then want to switch to wisdom.

Goblin Squad Member

However they do it, it's pretty much guaranteed that it'll be by having the same number of points/stats as everyone else. Any random method will be gamed by rerolling endlessly until you get near-optimal results.

As for assigning stats ourselves, I hope that this step will occur during or after the in-game tutorial/newbie area, so that we have a chance to see which skills require which stats before assigning them. Assigning them before even stepping into the game based on a necessarily vague little paragraph describing its effects is invariably going to lead to regret later on down the road for some players.

Neadenil Edam wrote:
I do hope there will at least be a minimum stat requirement to achieve certain high level skill sets to differentiate a little between builds.

Invariably people are going to change their minds about what activities they want to pursue in the game, and train different skills from the ones they had originally envisioned, and it will suck for them if they can't because of some stat restriction.

Even if you are super-careful and map out your stats and training plan for the next 3 years, new skills are going to be added to the game regularly, and if one of those is something you really want to get, but you don't have the stats for it ... major suckage. No, it's better to avoid such restrictions, even if they make perfect sense from a PnP and RP perspective.

Goblin Squad Member

I'm guessing everyone will start with evened out stats, and you use your first remap when you decide how you want to change.

I'm guessing you won't be able to see a big difference until your character is training the 'higher' skills that take multiple days/weeks to train.

Goblin Squad Member

Valkenr wrote:

I'm guessing everyone will start with evened out stats, and you use your first remap when you decide how you want to change.

I'm guessing you won't be able to see a big difference until your character is training the 'higher' skills that take multiple days/weeks to train.

Yep, for people that log on rarely it probably will make no difference what stats they choose.

If you log on regularly and focus on a single skill area (for example divine spell casting) there should still be some benefit to optimizing certain stats.

Goblin Squad Member

I'm sure we'll have some sort of control. There's no way it's going to be something like "Well, here's your characters attributes," and you rolled high on Int. but you wanted a fighter, oh well...

Since the devs have stated they want to help scaffold newbs, my guess would be that when you select your archetype template, you get a slate of skills selected for training, and an attribute arrangement to match. Then you could likely riff off of that and tweak as you cho0se to.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

My personal hope is that given the nature of the River Kingdoms, we will at least get the High Fantasy option (20 points), but I am hoping that Epic is what will get used (25 points). That will allow players enough attributes points to get right into the game. One of the current campaigns in PFRPG I play in uses the Epic point buy, and player stats are, while heroic, still reasonable. In games were I have rolled, I have had two characters with well above average scores, one with two 18's, two 17's a 16 and a 15 - rolled in front of the GM! Fun character for about three game sessions, but then, as the rest of the party was weaker, it became too easy for my character to handle encounters and by the time he hit 7th level, it was cakewalk. He single-handedly took down a wizard of 9th level and his pet wyvern after the rest of the party was poisoned and/or held. After that, no more uber-characters for me :D Multi-classed Wizard/Ranger with those stats was just too powerful and gave my GM nightmares lol. Luckily he forgave me.

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

Everything we know about attributes from the Pathfinder RPG d20 based game is wrong. They will not be used that way in PFO, so planning attribute spreads at this point is irrelevant. There are no bonus points for high attributes, the only things they do adjust are resistances and training time for skills based on that attribute.

Even training time isn't a direct indicator of power because skill training in PFO can be considered as XP points in tabletop rules. They don't do anything for your character mechanically, but are instead a gating tool unlock better abilities when you also do things in game.

Another big difference is that resistances can be though of as saving throws, but there will be a resistance score for every attribute, not just three. It will likely be a bad idea to min-max to rapidly learn skills at the cost of dump-stating others because you will have several low saves instead of just one or two that would have in d20. Even if you can rapidly learn the skills, you will still need to do things in game to unlock the abilities for those skills. and you likely wont be able to complete those tasks until much later even if you have the skill level requirement.

tl/dr: I think that is is likely going to better in the long run to keep slightly above average scores in everything instead of maxing one or two and dumping the remaining ones.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

Imbicatus wrote:
the only things they do adjust are resistances and training time for skills based on that attribute.

And that makes them very important to players. A skill that takes 6 hours to train being instead only 4 hours means that hard core gamers will want higher stats in the attributes that govern the skills they will likely train. My example was just to illustrate how a point buy system allows for good attributes while still keeping uber-characters very limited, and hence why I see GW using it as Ryan noted. If it were a die roll system, a lucky person could end up with ability stats like my one PnP character, and that would allow for very fast training of pretty much every skill. That is too unbalancing. I didn't mean to equate PFO ability scores with those of PFRPG. I should have said so, so sorry for my failure. However, I still hope that PC's will get enough points to have heroic characters, meaning they can speed up training in some of their chosen skills trees, especially those who will work toward having a "single class" PC.

Sorry for any confusion.

Goblin Squad Member

Newest blog addresses this, pretty interesting change actually.

Goblin Squad Member

Gloreindl wrote:

I should have said so, so sorry for my failure. However, I still hope that PC's will get enough points to have heroic characters, meaning they can speed up training in some of their chosen skills trees, especially those who will work toward having a "single class" PC.

Sorry for any confusion.

Well yes I believe ryan has been pretty clear they won't be random, they will certainly be a point buy of some sort. I believe the key here though is, what exactly is the meaning of "heroic" when we are talking skills. When we are talking the stregnth of something, we are comparing it to something else... In P&P, if you gave every character 99 str, 99 dex, 99 con etc... then gave all the NPCs, even the lowliest commoner and housecats similar stats, are the PCs godlike, heroic or average?

In this world, we are talking about 90% of PC's interaction, being with other PCs, so obviously compared to other PCs, everyone is going to be average.

Resistances and training time fall into the same boat here. Whether you are so starved for points you can only get 1 stat up as high as 14, or if you could get that stat to 18. if GW is intending skill X to take 5 hours for a good stat, and 6 for a low stat, whether we call a high stat 18, or 12 that is the amount of time it will take.

Same for resistances etc...

Knowing what the stats you get are is meaningless.

That's like knowing someone in the land of Kanamanadi (just random made up name), has 10,000 quintasa (random made up currency).

with that information, that could be enough money to buy a huge mansion at the beach, or not quite enough to buy a loaf of bread. Without a general knowledge of how a quintasa compares to currencies we are familiar with, it is meaningless.

Goblin Squad Member

Ah, here. From "Are You Experienced?"

Quote:

Ability scores do not directly affect many game systems the way they do in tabletop: having a high Strength won't add directly to your melee attacks, for example. However, ability scores play an important role in your training and advancement.

Previously, we had conceived of ability scores as a mechanism for decreasing the training time for linked traits (by lowering the XP cost). However, we worried that this would require too much up-front planning. If ability scores were set at character creation, you would be permanently making a choice as to what types of traits you'd pursue before you even knew what you'd find fun. If they could shift during play, there would be optimal paths for training order to match purchases most effectively to high ability scores.

So we've fairly dramatically adjusted our expectations for ability scores, while keeping them primarily about influencing your trait selection. Specifically:

When you make a new character, you start with 10 in all ability scores (modified up or down by racial advantages).
Every feat is linked to one ability score and provides a fractional increase to that score when purchased (potentially of a variable amount based on the XP cost of the feat and other factors).
When you get enough fractional increases, your ability score goes up by 1 permanently.
A minimum ability score value can serve as a prerequisite for purchasing feats.

It will be common for "higher level" traits to require a fairly high ability score to indicate that you're not just skipping ahead of the power curve (and this makes racial bonuses useful, because they mean you can skip some of the power curve). A single progression path will rarely be enough to keep ahead of ability score requirements, so you'll find yourself wanting to diversify. For example, a player trying to get Fighter 8 may need Strength 17, but all of the otherwise required Fighter feats only get her to Strength 15, so she'll need to diversify and pick up 2 more points worth of Strength feats of her choice to meet the requirement (this could be more attacks, more armor, or just skills that use Strength).

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

I feel pretty vindicated right now when I compared skill training to XPs :)

Goblin Squad Member

8 points. However, if you choose to not spend these 8 points at character creation you will be able to purchase several fine hats as well as the pickle extractor with them instead.

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