My friend is starting up Carrion Crown in the next few months and he and I have (in usual fashion) started building character really early (we're kinda really nerdy like that).
I came up with an idea (after some help from these message boards) to do an Umbral Sorcerer, Fetchling.
This makes me one sneaky S.o.B.
After discussing it with my friend we came up with the idea of duel classing me into ninja and making me a Sorcerer/Ninja (magical assassin?)
Now most of my fellow players really focus into "optimizing", this isn't something I personally care for. I like letting the character flow more naturally and discover feats and stuff as the character feels it's necessary for the story.
BUT this is entirely new ground for me and I could use some help. I'm starting with Umbral Sorcerer because of my back story and was hoping you guys could help me figure out when it would be best to start the duel classing, what should I look into getting.
Any help at all would be great!
Help from anyone??? please???
You are looking for a charismatic rogue/ wiz type character? Write down exactly what it is that you want out of this character, and see if you can't get it from a archeologist bard. If you are looking for a bit of a punch, have you though of dragon Disciple? If you are thinking of a straight up melee skills yet, you could go arcane duelist bard followed by elder itch knight (not the most optimal, but it could work). If its the sneak attacks you want you can always go sandman bard.
Disclaimer: I love bards! In the past, I always tried to make some kind of rogue and spell caster work, and ever sconce the archetypes came out for pathfinder I have found everything that suited my play style in the bard class with alternate features. So with that in mind, just know that I lean heavy on bards for all my character issue solutions.
You might be able to work it out with your DM to sub in/out a few sorc spells to your list.
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You could always read the class guides in the advice page and build your own idea those guilds have a lot of good information in there. They have helped me figure Ideas out on more then one occasion already.
I have only been on here for maybe a month.
But a Question we gotta ask is you trying to go heavy melle or magic?
I guess what I'm looking for is more of an Arcane Assassin type thing. A good Melee punch but with a magically inclined bag of tricks if you will.
I want to have a good magic attack as most of my melee damage would be coming from sneak attack.
My spells would be assisting in this, focusing on stealth and illusion spells to keep me sneaky and hidden so I can sneak attack like crazy.
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Ninja/Sorcerer/Arcane Trickster could be really interesting. Focus on touch attack spells, like Scorching Rays and (later) Contagious Flame.
It wasn't really my intent to do such a thing but I could see it going that way...
but the good news is I'm seeing this come together...I can see it working...with some thought put into it
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O yeah this can be a really good toon if you can see what kind of spells you wanna gun for.
IMO your spell list needs to be set for one task you will have even less spells then normal sorcerers so to make the most out of it you need to have almost all your spells set for the same goal.
Again this is OMHO
You will definitely want the Shadow bloodline. Having a touch attack is awesome for landing your sneak attacks.
the two reason I don't want to go Magus is that I'm already going to be playing a Magus ( I don't like repeating characters often)
AND a more logical reason is that I'd lose the Shadow (umbra) bloodline, which gives me A LOT of bonus stealth magic.
I've seen "Arcane Trickster" mentioned a few times and after looking at it I'm thinking I'll be going that way. It's a great combination of what I want.
I guess the real question now, for me to decide and you awesome people to help with, is what level should I go into Arcane Trickster?
I'm thinking I'm going to do alternate levels of Sorcerer and Ninja till 10 then transfer into trickster. Starting with Sorcerer.
Go into Arcane Trickster literally as fast as possible. You need three levels of Ninja and four of Sorcerer to qualify--it doesn't really matter what order you take them in, but Ninja first gives you 2 extra HP. Take Arcane Trickster starting at 8th and don't look back.
Also, see if your GM would let you take the Extra Rogue Talent feat to get Ninja Tricks (you are technically a Rogue and there's a talent that gives you a ninja trick, so that part is ok--it's only that you don't actually get the "Rogue Talent" class feature, so you technically don't meat the pre-reqs and there's sadly no "Extra Ninja Trick" feat).
I'd consider getting the 4th level of Ninja - you'd get an extra ninja trick, an extra ki point, and don't lose a level of BaB for doing so.
I'd level thusly
Ninja 1
Sorc 4
Back to ninja for 2-3 levels
Arcane Trickster
I'd consider getting the 4th level of Ninja - you'd get an extra ninja trick, an extra ki point, and don't lose a level of BaB for doing so.
I'd level thusly
Ninja 1
Sorc 4
Back to ninja for 2-3 levels
Arcane Trickster
Hummmm you want something fun?
Magus (Kensai) 4/Ninja 4/Arcane Trickster X
Yes it's a little MAD but fun!
you can get 2 extra attacks with sneak and mess someone up!
Spell Strike + Arcane Strike + Ki Attack = 2 attacks at -2 and 1 at your full attack bonus.
You are looking at some impressive damage when you add sneak and spell strike (never mind the fact that you can add and enchantment to your weapon such as keen)
I'd consider getting the 4th level of Ninja - you'd get an extra ninja trick, an extra ki point, and don't lose a level of BaB for doing so.
I'd level thusly
Ninja 1
Sorc 4
Back to ninja for 2-3 levels
Arcane TricksterHummmm you want something fun?
Magus (Kensai) 4/Ninja 4/Arcane Trickster X
Yes it's a little MAD but fun!
you can get 2 extra attacks with sneak and mess someone up!
Spell Strike + Arcane Strike + Ki Attack = 2 attacks at -2 and 1 at your full attack bonus.
You are looking at some impressive damage when you add sneak and spell strike (never mind the fact that you can add and enchantment to your weapon such as keen)
He said he is already playing a magus and didn't feel like doing another one.
Also, you can't arcane strike while using ki attack as both are swift actions.
This is GREAT info guys, Thanks to all of the advice.
If you all would be so kind as to suggest some Feats I would be EXTREMELY grateful
I am going to be leveling as a Ninja 1 -> Summoner 2-4 -> Ninja 5-6 then into Arcane trickster.
Anymore suggestion are appreciated.
Thanks!
You will need 4 levels of summoner. I suspect you knew that, but your math needs tweaking - Ninja 1 - Summoner 2-5 -> Ninja 6-7 -> Arcane Trickster.
I think sorcerer would be better since a summoner is one of the classes most hurt by multiclassing. Going Arcane Trickster wouldn't progress the Eidolon or your sla summoning (by RAW, of course you can get your GM to say that it can so make sure to clear it with him first if that is your intent).
You're going to need the following if you want melee with good magical tricks
high charisma, dex and str scores. It's possible but not exactly great.
I'd reccomend looking at another caster class such as cleric, and using guided weaponry, you'd be only balancing wis/charisma then, also a combo pack of darkness and trickery is great for a fetchling with sneak attack. This would allow for a good portion of your theme without hurting your power.
variant channeling darkness is also a good way to go with a clerical ninga/rogue. then just grab gloom sight. maybe channeling smite to up your damage a bit.
there are multiple rogue/ninja MCA if your part allows multiclass archectypes. they'd potentially make it easier to go with a sorcerer build
If your goal is to be a sneaky blasty magic user fighter mix, i might recommend the super genius guide to the riven mage. Its int based but I think you can make the case to your dm to make it charisma based instead since its closer to how a sorceror works then a wizard. And if you take the path of the sneak, you get stealth and disable device as class skills, and eventually trap finding and trap spotter. You also would get 3/4 bab all the way through and not take the hit you would muliclassing 2 3/4 babs
You will need 4 levels of summoner. I suspect you knew that, but your math needs tweaking - Ninja 1 - Summoner 2-5 -> Ninja 6-7 -> Arcane Trickster.
I think sorcerer would be better since a summoner is one of the classes most hurt by multiclassing. Going Arcane Trickster wouldn't progress the Eidolon or your sla summoning (by RAW, of course you can get your GM to say that it can so make sure to clear it with him first if that is your intent).
God, MY bad. I Meant Sorcerer. I'm helping a friend come up with his character, and he's thinking of doing a summoner/samurai halfling. using his eidolon as a mount...my extreme bad...
Sorcerer and Ninja! and I'll make sure to get Sorcerer till 5.
So, Ninja -1 , Sorcerer 2-5, back to ninja till 7 (possibly 8).
I'd consider getting the 4th level of Ninja - you'd get an extra ninja trick, an extra ki point, and don't lose a level of BaB for doing so.
I'd level thusly
Ninja 1
Sorc 4
Back to ninja for 2-3 levels
Arcane TricksterHummmm you want something fun?
Magus (Kensai) 4/Ninja 4/Arcane Trickster X
Yes it's a little MAD but fun!
you can get 2 extra attacks with sneak and mess someone up!
Spell Strike + Arcane Strike + Ki Attack = 2 attacks at -2 and 1 at your full attack bonus.
You are looking at some impressive damage when you add sneak and spell strike (never mind the fact that you can add and enchantment to your weapon such as keen)
He said he is already playing a magus and didn't feel like doing another one.
Also, you can't arcane strike while using ki attack as both are swift actions.
I meant Spellstrike not Arcane Strike...
You will need 4 levels of summoner. I suspect you knew that, but your math needs tweaking - Ninja 1 - Summoner 2-5 -> Ninja 6-7 -> Arcane Trickster.
I think sorcerer would be better since a summoner is one of the classes most hurt by multiclassing. Going Arcane Trickster wouldn't progress the Eidolon or your sla summoning (by RAW, of course you can get your GM to say that it can so make sure to clear it with him first if that is your intent).
God, MY bad. I Meant Sorcerer. I'm helping a friend come up with his character, and he's thinking of doing a summoner/samurai halfling. using his eidolon as a mount...my extreme bad...
Sorcerer and Ninja! and I'll make sure to get Sorcerer till 5.
So, Ninja -1 , Sorcerer 2-5, back to ninja till 7 (possibly 8).
he is right don't go summoner... sorc is the way to go...
or Magus ::winks::
SpellStrike (Shocking Grasp) + Ki Strike + Normal Attacks from Improved Invisibility = omg you did what?
and remember the enchantment bonus from Arcane weapon stacks with any arcane bonus on your main weapon..
man I'm making this character for PFS
The reason I'm doing a sorcerer is because of the advantages of the bloodline.
I'm aware of the disadvantages of not optimizing, but I'm simply not that kinda of player. I want a character I can just be fun and kinda bad ass. Not the max dps.
That's why I'm not worrying about the best strength build, or largest possible BAB...
The reason I'm doing a sorcerer is because of the advantages of the bloodline.
I'm aware of the disadvantages of not optimizing, but I'm simply not that kinda of player. I want a character I can just be fun and kinda bad ass. Not the max dps.
That's why I'm not worrying about the best strength build, or largest possible BAB...
Arcane trickster is a fine class, particularly in certain party combos. Check out my guide for some ideas.
What are you getting for umbra? I can't find it anywhere.The reason I'm doing a sorcerer is because of the advantages of the bloodline.
I'm aware of the disadvantages of not optimizing, but I'm simply not that kinda of player. I want a character I can just be fun and kinda bad ass. Not the max dps.
That's why I'm not worrying about the best strength build, or largest possible BAB...
It's basically the Shadow Bloodline, with the exception of the
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell in an area
of dim light or darkness, your effective caster level is
increased by 1.
and the
Bloodline Powers: Your shadow magic is more defensive
than offensive.
Cloak of Shadows (Sp): At 1st level, as a standard action,
you can grant one target a cloak of shadows. This cloak
gives the target a bonus on Stealth checks made in areas of
dim or no light equal to 1/2 your sorcerer level for 1 round
per 2 sorcerer levels you possess (minimum +1 bonus for 1
round). You may use this ability a number of times per day
equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier. This bloodline power
replaces shadowstrike.
I know I'm giving up shadow strike, which is sad. But the increased caster level, when in dim-light. MIXED with arcane Tricksters abilities is just to tempting to dismiss outright.
Umbral not Umbra, just to clear the confusion and of anyone who is looking up the bloodline.
Wildblooded bloodline of Shadow.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spellcastingClassOptions/s orcerer.html
Umbral not Umbra, just to clear the confusion and of anyone who is looking up the bloodline.
Wildblooded bloodline of Shadow.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spellcastingClassOptions/s orcerer.html
He is correct, It is Umbral. Once again, my bad.
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I totally get the idea! I came up with a "Mist Assassin" who was a Deaf Waves Oracle/Ninja to do something similar. She would cast Obscuring Mist, use Water Sight to see through it, cast Silence, and then your target is a sitting duck. Can't see you, can't call for help, can't cast most spells, but you can do all that, with infinite sneak attacks!
So I highly recommend Silent Spell for this build. But yes, if you're able to drop a darkness you can see through, then act silently, you can be staggeringly effective. Ranged touch attacks will help a lot. Silent Spell and Reach Spell, perhaps? A single Reach Chill Touch is cheap on resources and can be sneaked. Yes, Shocking Grasp is the mainstay, but you get multiple touches with a single Chill Touch, so it's all about how much the sneak attack damage matters over the spell damage.
Vestrial: I respectfully disagree.... shadow-strike isn't that great, a non-lethal touch attack? The dazzle isn't bad but with two exceptions of low-light and dark-vision.
But extending duration, possible increasing damage (for certain spells) and increasing that ability to overcome spell resist??? with a character that thrives in darkness? If I tune my spell list right this can be really nice.
Ben Linus
Bfobar
InVinoVeritas
- It's good to know this build has worked out well for others, including being fun to play - Always a goal.
Is there a reason any of you would suggest not going Fetchling as race?
Ninja/ sorc for a late bloomer. Cha helps your ki pool more than int helps a rogue. As long as you play like a caster you should be fine. Get ranged touch spells and rays, then swift vanish and enjoy the sneak attack dice. Acid splash and ray of frost are great reusable cantrips that should help you get off unlimited sneak attack damage. Expand your ki pool and you will be vanishing often.
Everything else is gravy.
I was looking through the bloodlines to see what the best one would be, there are a few options, but I would choose one based on these.
- bloodline spells that are great for defense, or are rays/ ranged touch attacks
- bloodline powers @1 and 3 that boost your ability to get off sneak attacks such as daze or ray/ touch/ ranged touch spells. Or are def oriented.
Make no mistake though, you are a blaster, save or suck is not your cup of tea. You can buff and control, but not as well as a full caster. Focus on ways to get off spell based sneak attacks, and ways to boost your to hit touch AC and you will do well.
Some feats that you want are: Extra Ki, point blank shot, precise shot, and ranged flank (maybe way late in the game).
Go halfling for the plus one to hit for being small, bonuses stats in all the right places. Get some sniper goggles, and a buckler (cause it doesn't hurt), armor is up to you depending on how high you get your dex. Buy up UMD so you can utility cast.
Question: does weapon focus (touch attack) apply to ranged touch as well?
A different point to consider: you are taking this character into Carrion Crown.
Keeping things spoiler free, and acknowledging that my group likely falls outside the norm, Carrion Crown is a Very. Long. Campaign.
My group has been playing for over 7 months. We just got into book 2 in our last session. That means that my character has been alive for 7 months real time and is still at level three.
You're character doesn't really bloom until level 9 or 10. That's what.. end of book 3/beginning of 4? That's a whole lot of time in which to be thinking about what your character could have received had he gone fully into one class or the other.
There's also the fact that Carrion Crown is NOT friendly to player characters. How likely is your character to survive until level 10?
The character concept rocks, but I'd recommend you keep it as a backup character and seriously start looking to pull it out during book 3.
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May I suggest going with Eldritch heritage instead of the sorcerer dip? It will give you the bloodlines without all of the associated penalties.
A different point to consider: you are taking this character into Carrion Crown.
Keeping things spoiler free, and acknowledging that my group likely falls outside the norm, Carrion Crown is a Very. Long. Campaign.
My group has been playing for over 7 months. We just got into book 2 in our last session. That means that my character has been alive for 7 months real time and is still at level three.
You're character doesn't really bloom until level 9 or 10. That's what.. end of book 3/beginning of 4? That's a whole lot of time in which to be thinking about what your character could have received had he gone fully into one class or the other.
Uh, I've been in a weekly Carrion Crown game for three and a half months and we just finished book 2.
And you're supposed to be 4th level by the time you start book 2.
I think your group's speed is probably an anomaly.
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pick up the Magical Knack trait if your DM allows traits.
You were raised, either wholly or in part, by a magical creature, either after it found you abandoned in the woods or because your parents often left you in the care of a magical minion. This constant exposure to magic has made its mysteries easy for you to understand, even when you turn your mind to other devotions and tasks. Pick a class when you gain this trait—your caster level in that class gains a +2 trait bonus as long as this bonus doesn't raise your caster level above your current Hit Dice.
Uh, I've been in a weekly Carrion Crown game for three and a half months and we just finished book 2.
And you're supposed to be 4th level by the time you start book 2.
I think your group's speed is probably an anomaly.
Yeah, I probably should have put a (We are REALLY slow) after the "acknowledging my group falls outside the norm" part to clarify.
As to the level 4 thing, that's what I thought too. *Sigh*
Still, let's say an average group can get to the end of book 3 in 4-5 months. My point still stands: nine levels is a long time.
A different point to consider: you are taking this character into Carrion Crown.
Keeping things spoiler free, and acknowledging that my group likely falls outside the norm, Carrion Crown is a Very. Long. Campaign.
My group has been playing for over 7 months. We just got into book 2 in our last session. That means that my character has been alive for 7 months real time and is still at level three.
You're character doesn't really bloom until level 9 or 10. That's what.. end of book 3/beginning of 4? That's a whole lot of time in which to be thinking about what your character could have received had he gone fully into one class or the other.
There's also the fact that Carrion Crown is NOT friendly to player characters. How likely is your character to survive until level 10?
The character concept rocks, but I'd recommend you keep it as a backup character and seriously start looking to pull it out during book 3.
If you start off as ninja 2/ sorc1 and build from there, you are viable at lvl 3 with the same tricks you will be pulling till epic campaign lvls. Remember, that acid splash and ray of frost are inexhaustible ray spells that get sneak attack added if you use your vanishing trick.
Take your 4th lvl as ninja, then finish out to lvl 7 as sorc... Unless you go ninja 4/ sorc 4.... Anyway beside the point. All you need is vanishing trick, and a ray/ touch/ or ranged touch spell.