I just want to get some ideas from folks around what qualifies as "powergaming" There are constant debates on these forums about when a "reasonable build" crosses some invisible line and becomes a "power gamer build."
So in the spirit of Jeff Foxworthy's "You might be a redneck if... (your lawn furniture used to be your living room furniture), I am going to get people's thoughts on munchkinery, power gaming, min-maxing, etc. by trying to have some fun with it.
So I'll start:
You might be a munchkin if...:
... you have a pet Tarrasque.
... you have crafted a staff of wishes.
... your AC is so high the only creature that can hit it reliably is... you.
... you have solars on your speed dial.
... your magic items have magic items.
... your minions have minions.
... your party brings popcorn and soda to an encounter so they have something to do.
... you can't remember the last time you didn't get a full attack in combat.
... you use a weapon whose name you didn't know a year ago, and still can't spell without looking it up.
... you resorted to bribery or intimidation to convince your GM to allow a book because it had a feat your character "needed".
Just a few... looking forward to other thoughts...
...your character can't do all the things on Heinlein's list. A bit.
...your character CAN do all the things on Heinlein's list. Well.
...you would never allow your PC, if you were GMing
...you would never allow your GMing, if you were a player
...your PC can only exist in the rarest and narrowest of settings, or collection of settings, or collection of genres, and this one splatbook from a 3rd party for a previous edition of the rules.
...you play RPGs and invest any effort at all
...you took weapon finesse to apply both your strength and dexterity to attack and damage rolls.
...you play a char-ops all-star at beer & pretzel games.
...you saved the party and single-handedly defeated 80% of the enemies in your first session with a new group and they didn't invite you back, and its not the first time.
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... you represent the Lollipop Kids
Webstore Coordinator
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... you have no less than five separate excel files calculating preparations for multiple encounters, sorted by DM.
... you are on a first-name basis with Azmodeus (or, Modawg/Momo/The Deuce).
... you have a 75 percent chance of having a parade thrown for you upon entering any village/town/city.
... you enjoy rousing games of Pin the Tail Back on the Balor.
... you once tried using a linnorm as bait during a fishing trip.
... your milkshake brings all the goblins to the yard.
(Psssst... It's "Guild", not "Kids".)
Sorry old and too much random stuff rolls through my brain and gets all mixed in.
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"You would never allow your PC if you were GM"....
Thread Over =)
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Your character's description has any mention of Pun-Pun in it.
You start out playing a Dawnflower Dervish bard just for Dervish Dance, and then renounce Sarenrae once you're able to take Dervish Dance for real, thereby becoming a full-bard.
...You have to borrow extra dice to roll damage... with a dagger.
...The DM looks worried when your turn comes around.
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You start out playing a Dawnflower Dervish bard just for Dervish Dance, and then renounce Sarenrae once you're able to take Dervish Dance for real, thereby becoming a full-bard.
You can probably stop that sentence at the first comma. (says the guy who has a dex based rogue with a single level dip in Dawnflower Dervish bard)
...you e-mail your GM(s) every week telling them why you, as the "only REAL roleplayer of the group", need these extra abilities... for FREE!
(Yes, we really have a player like that, and we have two GMs who are planning on retiring their campaigns solely because he causes them so much grief on a weekly basis that they'd rather quit than argue with him any more.)
EDIT: His latest to me was that he should get Knowledge: Local and Knowledge: Nobility for free, and should be related to the local nobility, because it would 'enhance' the game. So I'm quitting.
Awesome Thread
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...you e-mail your GM(s) every week telling them why you, as the "only REAL roleplayer of the group", need these extra abilities... for FREE!
(Yes, we really have a player like that, and we have two GMs who are planning on retiring their campaigns solely because he causes them so much grief on a weekly basis that they'd rather quit than argue with him any more.)
EDIT: His latest to me was that he should get Knowledge: Local and Knowledge: Nobility for free, and should be related to the local nobility, because it would 'enhance' the game. So I'm quitting.
...You've maxed out your Diplomacy/Intimidate so high you can make the players/GMs quit instead of kicking you out.
...You've maxed out your Diplomacy/Intimidate so high you can make the players/GMs quit instead of kicking you out....you e-mail your GM(s) every week telling them why you, as the "only REAL roleplayer of the group", need these extra abilities... for FREE!
(Yes, we really have a player like that, and we have two GMs who are planning on retiring their campaigns solely because he causes them so much grief on a weekly basis that they'd rather quit than argue with him any more.)
EDIT: His latest to me was that he should get Knowledge: Local and Knowledge: Nobility for free, and should be related to the local nobility, because it would 'enhance' the game. So I'm quitting.
Your GMs really like your wife, and they're her only 'escape' from reality, so they tolerate you only for her sake...
EDIT: Yes, I could turn this into an entire 'psychology of gaming' thread, but I'll leave it at, "We would kick his sorry a$$ out the door if we didn't know he'd take his wife with him, and we really like her..." We are about to move to our THIRD GM who will try to 'tolerate him to allow her to play.'
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Wow. I came into this thread expecting a checklist of horrible habits that would seem familiar to me. I'm not nearly as bad as I thought. Not a single one of these has come up in our group.
According to some my contribution to munchkinism is:
"If you have ever gestalted wizard and summoner."
The snarky in me would add
"If you've ever crafted for profit or advocated for such."
* you're playing Exalted.
...your character can't do all the things on Heinlein's list. A bit.
...your character CAN do all the things on Heinlein's list. Well.
Hey, I can do nearly everything on the list, and the few things I can't I know where to start quickly (including the planning an invasion one... Logistics manuals are your friend).
As for my character... My cleric of Gorum can do all but the intellect stuff (math eludes him short of logistics problems), plans on taking engineering (you can do practical engineering with very little math) and profession sailor (wants to be a marine?) and no computers in PF...
My cleric of Besmara, Captain Garrick (notorious shackles pirate), can do all of the stuff on the list other than the computer part.
As for the list:
If you ever considered introducing "Limit Break" moves to your campaign you are GMing, or petition the GM to let you use limit breaker moves.
If your character has ever dragooned a red dragon swimming in a lake of lava, and lived to tell about it at any single digit level. (been there done that, dragon bane lance and a GM that let me get the charge multiplier jumping from the rim).
If you have ever built a rogue that can keep up with the real classes ;)
If your character actually found the tablets of fate (forgotten realms), or the tablets of destiny (Sumerian religion).
If your character has ever had any of the items on this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mythological_objects
Dot
...you somehow make a Monk who is as useful to the party as a high-level Wizard.
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* you're playing Exalted.Hey! I like that game.
We still accept you.
...You've maxed out your Diplomacy/Intimidate so high you can make the players/GMs quit instead of kicking you out....you e-mail your GM(s) every week telling them why you, as the "only REAL roleplayer of the group", need these extra abilities... for FREE!
(Yes, we really have a player like that, and we have two GMs who are planning on retiring their campaigns solely because he causes them so much grief on a weekly basis that they'd rather quit than argue with him any more.)
EDIT: His latest to me was that he should get Knowledge: Local and Knowledge: Nobility for free, and should be related to the local nobility, because it would 'enhance' the game. So I'm quitting.
Your GMs really like your wife, and they're her only 'escape' from reality, so they tolerate you only for her sake...
EDIT: Yes, I could turn this into an entire 'psychology of gaming' thread, but I'll leave it at, "We would kick his sorry a$$ out the door if we didn't know he'd take his wife with him, and we really like her..." We are about to move to our THIRD GM who will try to 'tolerate him to allow her to play.'
Here's a simple trick for the annoying husband: challenge him to play a Commoner and thrive in the campaign. ;)
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... you whine that a 40 point gestalt build can't do your character justice.
Here's a simple trick for the annoying husband: challenge him to play a Commoner and thrive in the campaign. ;)...You've maxed out your Diplomacy/Intimidate so high you can make the players/GMs quit instead of kicking you out....you e-mail your GM(s) every week telling them why you, as the "only REAL roleplayer of the group", need these extra abilities... for FREE!
(Yes, we really have a player like that, and we have two GMs who are planning on retiring their campaigns solely because he causes them so much grief on a weekly basis that they'd rather quit than argue with him any more.)
EDIT: His latest to me was that he should get Knowledge: Local and Knowledge: Nobility for free, and should be related to the local nobility, because it would 'enhance' the game. So I'm quitting.
Your GMs really like your wife, and they're her only 'escape' from reality, so they tolerate you only for her sake...
EDIT: Yes, I could turn this into an entire 'psychology of gaming' thread, but I'll leave it at, "We would kick his sorry a$$ out the door if we didn't know he'd take his wife with him, and we really like her..." We are about to move to our THIRD GM who will try to 'tolerate him to allow her to play.'
I LOVE it! Except for the fact that then I'd get the weekly e-mail: "You know, as a commoner, I would have to know who my liege is, so I would have Knowledge: Nobility. And since I live in the area, I would have Knowledge: Local. Oh, and since we're playing Rise of the Runelords this time, I think it would be really cool if I were actually one of the Kaijitsu's; maybe an illegitimate son of Lonjiku..."
And then you say, "No," and he takes that to mean, "I have not explained my position clearly enough yet for the GM to realize that I am right, so I will corner him as he's setting up for the game and talk at him for 15 minutes about how allowing this would let everyone have more fun, and he really is stifling the entire table..."
EDIT: And no; he is absolutely NOT one of my beloved RotRL crew; I just used it as an example since it's the AP I know best right now.
Ah, well, time for some ProactiveTM GM Preparation!
"You can attempt any Knowledge skill check for which the DC is 10 or lower. Everyone can. If you want to be able to attempt higher Knowledge DCs, assign your ranks accordingly."
"Knowing what the name of your liege is falls under 'know current ruler', which is a DC 10 Knowledge (nobility) check. Your Intelligence bonus is at least a +0, right?"
"You are indeed one bastard child out of MANY bastard children sired by someone somewhere 40 or 50 years ago. If you did not select an appropriate Trait at character creation, too bad, so sad."
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...your low level character can sunder epic level spells, via spell sunder, on a 2, 1 being a miss.
...other players at the table think one of your abilities neutralizes half the parties use, so they try to restrict you in using it.
...you start with feats/scores/or a crazy over the top idea, before you even have a character name.
...you would never allow your PC, if you were GMing
This one probably covers most of it!
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Yar.
"You might be a munchkin if..."
... you came into this thread looking for ways to "up your game".
~P
... your character's name is CHUCK NORRIS.
... your Reflex Save is so high, you could be stuck to an adamantine post covered with sovereing glue, tied up with +5 cold iron chains, on Alderaan and still be able to evade the Death Star blast.
you have a loli nymph vampire gestalt sorcerer/bard whose charisma score looks like a telephone number in the 999 area code it is so high, and has enough money to put the reknowned artificer William Gates to shame.
in fact, the little undead nymph girl has the finest deities on speed dial with merely a phone call and a paycheck away.
This is about munchkins, not Shuriken Nekogami :)
LOL, love the comments on this thread. Great to see it kept polite and funny.
A few more to add:
... if you've never played a martial character with a charisma higher than 7
... if your character has more natural attacks than a dragon
... if your character's AC has to be tracked logarithmically
... if your gaming group complains that your monk is stealing the spotlight
... if your character uses a bow.
just because Shuriken played one, doesn't mean it couldn't have inspired me to also try the concept.
i am a follower of Shuriken's little cult.
Shuriken's Unconventional characters inspired me to borrow a few weird ideas.
... if your character uses a bow.
I'd add "as a primary weapon" to that one; in any of the APs, any character not carrying a bow is going to be out of every significant fight from Module 2 on; to paraphrase a favorite children's book, "Everybody Flies".
And to stay on-thread:
... if you feel repressed by the pitiful selection of spells in the CRB, APG, ARG, UC, and UM, and don't understand why your GM won't allow 3rd-party spellbooks to 'round out the set'