I still don't understand where the "he kills everyone you like!" thing comes from, unless you're a fan of "Random nameless man Joffrey shot out of a catapult".
Hey! Man In Catapult had wife and kids, you know. :(
To be honest... the death toll is severely exaggerated. Yes. Some people die, some that you care about, some not. However, the most high profile death, the one that I suspect gets everyone's attention, is set down in stone pretty early on. Martin is a storyteller, he follows the logic of story and plot. Watch the show with your eyes open, and you will understand. I think you will like it.
And, speaking of Joffrey (spoiler alert), some people you really really want to see die get killed, right there in front of you, and you're left thinking how the world is a better place without them in it.
The TV series is a bit more obvious with its characterization. Neither Joffrey or Little Finger is quite so dastardly in the books (they're both sons of b~%@!es, but it happens from many points of view over several volumes), but I think that's just the difference between a 1,000 page book and a 10 hour TV season.
It's more like a focus on the monumental dicks the nobility could be to teh exclusion of all else. To the point that they continue their pointless squabble sin the face of a world destroying threat.I quite liked Rome, I only watched a little of The Tudors, it seemed a banal attempt to 'sex-up' history.
Is it more like Rome (exploring history through the experiences of all the classes) or more like the Tudors (focus on nobility being decadent)?
It's more like ROME in terms of the feel of it all, and more like THE TUDORS in its focus on the nobility (plus Robert Baratheon is somewhat inspired by the 'real' Henry VIII).
Also, very few people in King's Landing have even heard of the threat from beyond the Wall, and of them no-one believes it (even Tyrion only has a funny feeling about it). There is, as far as they are concerned, no world-destroying threat.
As Spanky the Leprechaun says above:
"It's mainly just snippets of softcore porn, interspersed with douchy people douching on each other."Avoid like the plague.
It's also a reasonably well-constructed (if not as successfully as the novels) examination of Power in several different forms and how it manifests, is used and abused by different people. The TV series doesn't do it anywhere near as well as the books, and is undercut by several pointless sex scenes (though there's not that many of them), but it's a more intelligent show than some here would have it.
I do have a problem with the fact that they took until episode 6 for the show to become consistently good, however (and episodes 8-10 are the best of the first season). They should have come out swinging from the start.
just watched first episode. loved it. I like how the queen and her brother thing plays into the actual plot, rather than being random. everything seemed tastefully done. tyrion is hilarious. like arya too.
Arya and Tyrion are hands down my favorite characters.
Though Jaime actually gets much more sympathetic later on in the books.
just watched first episode. loved it. I like how the queen and her brother thing plays into the actual plot, rather than being random. everything seemed tastefully done. tyrion is hilarious. like arya too.
Glad to hear you liked it.
Personally, I don't find the sex to be gratuitously over the top as some do. There's certainly plenty of sex, but it's generally in service to the plot/characterization/setting.
I feel if I'd known from the beginning that it was essentially a story of how keeping it in the family can make one go mad,then I'd have been on board from the start.
The Westerosi don't really seem to need to keep things in the family to go mad...
The Westerosi don't really seem to need to keep things in the family to go mad...
Still, it sums up the Targaryens pretty well.
I feel if I'd known from the beginning that it was essentially a story of how keeping it in the family can make one go mad,then I'd have been on board from the start.
Early in the second season, two characters have this exchange:
"His wives and his daughters; he marries his daughters."
"That's foul!"
I'm sitting there thinking, Really? 'Cause from what I've seen so far it seems pretty run of the mill for Westeros.
NO, sisters are ok to wed, but daughters? That's bananas!
I've never seen even a minute of it, but my whole gaming table raves about it and has invited me over to start from episode 1. My problem is that there are only two reasons so far to watch it with them:
1: it's a fantasy series.
2: they invited me.other than that, I have little interest. I've heard of no characters I can say I would trust. it seems to be a story about nothing but political d-baggery, and that would annoy the never-ending crap out of me. is there a character who is wholesome and true who doesn't meet an untimely/disastrous death? are there good honest people who get rewarded for their deeds? these are the stories I like to hear, and I've heard nothing of this sort from game of thrones fans.
should I give it a chance? I'm not one to be bothered by spoilers, so spoil away.
Well if I hadn't seen the series I'd say that I have no opinion of it and to go with your friends because if you don't like it, you can calmly say it doesn't suit your tastes and that can be the end of it, but you atleast gave it a shot.
Now my opinion of the series, I was hooked from the first episode as i'm sure many people have said. I certainly won't spoil it, but if you've watched Rome and you like it, you'll probably like Game of Thrones too. Both done by HBO and they have a similar focus with going from character to character and even though there's talking and politics in it, it isn't like watching the house of lords in this day and age, everything they say has a huge significance to characters you dislike and like.
About the fantasy aspect, it's more background. What I mean by that is you don't have people walking around with magic weapons like LoTR nor wizards who can conjure up giant beasts or rain mass-death with spells.
When I hadn't watched the series and was told about the politics in it I origonally shook my head saying "It really doesn't sound very fun. I mean with the focus on politics, back-stabbing and war it sounds like a borefest" however, when I watched the first episode I understood what everyone was talking about. It's one thing to explain what it's about, but another to watch it.
I could write out the synopsis for the first episode, but again, it'd be boring to merely hear about it than to actually watch it. I've heard the book series is better and from seeing the series, I'm totally invested in wanting to read the book series too.
Bottom line, go check it out. I think it's amazing, but everyone has their own tastes so only you can decide for yourself what you think about it.
just watched first episode. loved it. I like how the queen and her brother thing plays into the actual plot, rather than being random. everything seemed tastefully done. tyrion is hilarious. like arya too.
Great to hear and those are my two favourite characters too.
Its funny, re-fluff it to fit modern day New York...the first episode plays out like L&O:SVU meets L&O:CI.
Except it isn't really accepted in Westeros, outside of the deposed Targeryans. Yes, there are two characters engaged in such relations, but the mere hint of said goings on is considered a scandal. Meanwhile, those two characters think to themselves that the fact that the Targeryans did it makes it okay.
Early in the second season, two characters have this exchange:"His wives and his daughters; he marries his daughters."
"That's foul!"
I'm sitting there thinking, Really? 'Cause from what I've seen so far it seems pretty run of the mill for Westeros.
Well, it's not the mere hint, though. It's Stannis sending notice to everyone, everywhere throughout all of Westeros, in exactly the way that Ned Stark didn't. At least in the books, it's much more a scandal that Joffery isn't the heir to the throne, than that his parents are brother and sister.
But Kal, can I ask how you find Cersei a sympathetic character in the TV series? The books have her as a POV character in the last couple of volumes, but she's just horrible either way.
The book series has a very few characters who are genuinely good. But that does not make them immune to getting shanked in the eye, rather the contrary. However Martin has a few characters one can support and who will probably survive in one form or another to see the finale.
The television series subverts some of the characters in subtle ways, because of how the actors portray them. I personally feel that Daenerys comes off as unfairly petulant in the TV series, compared to herself in the books.
One thing you can do to detach yourself in time from the "very noble" character types before they buy it, is when their noble acts begin to visibly make them enemies among their allies. That's about the clearest sign that they are about to get stabbed in the back soon.
Well, it's not the mere hint, though. It's Stannis sending notice to everyone, everywhere throughout all of Westeros, in exactly the way that Ned Stark didn't. At least in the books, it's much more a scandal that Joffery isn't the heir to the throne, than that his parents are brother and sister.Note, I haven't seen the second season yet though I've read all the books to date. However, I remember from the books people saying Stannis' "lie" was particularly vile because of the accusations of incest.
But Kal, can I ask how you find Cersei a sympathetic character in the TV series? The books have her as a POV character in the last couple of volumes, but she's just horrible either way.In the books, she's completely horrible. In the TV show she's presented as a little more tragic. She honestly tried to make her marriage with Robert work, only to have him reject her in favor a dead woman's memory and whores. Her child with Robert dies, as opposed to being aborted. A bunch of other little things. She also has the benefit of Lena Hedley's performance.
All that said, she's definitely not sympathetic-sympathetic. She's still a pretty terrible person. She's just more sympathetic than her book counterpart.
Yeah, but the Lannister camp is saying that Stannis' lie was particularly vile because they're responding to his accusation about the legitamacy of Joffrey's/Tommen's claim to the throne.
As for Cersei's description of her relationship with Robert, she was trying to convince Ned Stark not to reveal her relationship with Jaime, et al. You have to consider the source there, and when she started sleeping with Lancel, my reaction was, "Okay, it's not that it didn't work out with Robert, or that Jaime is her one true soul-mate, or any of that nonsense; she's just a sexual predator who likes to keep it in the family."
Full disclosure, I saw the first season, which convinced me to finally read the books. Then I saw season two and then I read A Dance with Dragons, so it's all a bit of a mish-mosh in my head at times.
Every time I picked a new favorite character in the books, GRRRRM would kill him off.
P.S. I freaking hate angsty little Arya. I hope she gets eaten by Drogon.
Expect them all to die, except Circe. ;)
Expect them all to die, except Circe. ;)
Are we reading the Odyssey now?
Expect them all to die, except Circe. ;)Are we reading the Odyssey now?
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mmaaayybbee