Venture-Agent, Ohio—Columbus
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Are there any PFS guidelines for what or how you're assumed to prep before you show up for a mission?
I specifically want to know about Mediums now that they're legal. Are you assumed to have channeled a spirit for the day, with the other PCs at the table around for the Seance Boon? Does it matter if you have a potentially weird place you need to channel (I'm looking at you Kami Medium Champion Spirit "Storms")?
It seems like daily spell prep and similar things is assumed, and that you're expected to have been working as a team for at least a bit before the mission, but I want to make sure before I try to make a Medium who either can't use their groupd buff or can't use their chosen spirit without an extended table discussion with the GM.
This concerns me as well, and is why I've held off on making a PFS medium yet. Some of the favored locations are rather rare. I could see a GM saying you can't channel your chosen spirit for lack of an appropriate location.
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Expect table variation - not so much because of GM fiat but rather by scenario leadins... we generally assume prep before we hear the briefing and likely mediums will do the same with the caveat that some scenarios won't suit some setups, but that should be fairly uncommon to deny a specific spirit or yes-no on seance.
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Given that without that uncommon circumstance stopping a specific option out of six (or slightly more likely seance option issue) a GM would be in violation of the "Don't be a jerk" rule, I personally would feel comfortable moving forward ahead of a ruling on something that only needs a ruling eventually due to jerks still existing at all.
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Daily reset will likely more be a problem inside of multi day adventures than at start... easy to hand wave an appropriate ruin or shrine in "off screen" space.
Seance will depend on intro description but unless it /sspecifies/ you come in not knowing anyone else on the mission assuming everyone was together if desired is reasonable.
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I hope there's more guidance than "expect table variation." This is basically whether an entire class is valid in PFS (without taking the Relic Channeler archetype.) If there's any reasonable chance that I'll show up with a Wizard and get told I can't prepare spells this mission, I'm not playing a Wizard.
Note: As a wizard, unless the intro gives you the time, you are assumed to have just a generic prepared spells list.
Example: You probably wouldn't have time to sit down and prepare a customized spell list for what the VC tells you regarding the Museum situation for Mists of Mwangi. For wizards, of course, there are a couple of feats available that can make it easier to customize spell lists, even with minimal prep time written into the scenario.
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I hope there's more guidance than "expect table variation." This is basically whether an entire class is valid in PFS (without taking the Relic Channeler archetype.) If there's any reasonable chance that I'll show up with a Wizard and get told I can't prepare spells this mission, I'm not playing a Wizard.Note: As a wizard, unless the intro gives you the time, you are assumed to have just a generic prepared spells list.
Example: You probably wouldn't have time to sit down and prepare a customized spell list for what the VC tells you regarding the Museum situation for Mists of Mwangi. For wizards, of course, there are a couple of feats available that can make it easier to customize spell lists, even with minimal prep time written into the scenario.
The issue is as a wizard it is almost unheard of not to have your spell bok available. If the scenario does not have a relevant location to channel their spirit then they may be out of luck
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This is something that has been bothering me a lot the last few days. I was hoping when the Additional Resources updated, there would be a way around this. I have spent a good bit of time mulling it over and I think a creative player SHOULD be allowed some wiggle room, considering how specific some of the requirements are. Ideas I have had:
1) Keep several books on you at all times. Set them up like a shelf on a library...instant library.
2) Bring a pair of practice swords with you. Get other characters to practice swordplay...instant practice yard.
3) Have a couple ranks in Survival. Build a small fort for when you are making camp...instant fort.
4) Carry several relics and a holy text to your deity. Set up an altar or shrine...instant shrine.
5) Perform a small monologue (I would say take a rank in a Perform skill) for your group...instant stage.
6) Trickster SHOULD be the easiest one unless you are in the wilderness. If you can get a labyrinth game...there is your maze.
Other GMs out there? How would you feel if a player showed up this prepared?
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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This is something that has been bothering me a lot the last few days. I was hoping when the Additional Resources updated, there would be a way around this. I have spent a good bit of time mulling it over and I think a creative player SHOULD be allowed some wiggle room, considering how specific some of the requirements are. Ideas I have had:
1) Keep several books on you at all times. Set them up like a shelf on a library...instant library.
2) Bring a pair of practice swords with you. Get other characters to practice swordplay...instant practice yard.
3) Have a couple ranks in Survival. Build a small fort for when you are making camp...instant fort.
4) Carry several relics and a holy text to your deity. Set up an altar or shrine...instant shrine.
5) Perform a small monologue (I would say take a rank in a Perform skill) for your group...instant stage.
6) Trickster SHOULD be the easiest one unless you are in the wilderness. If you can get a labyrinth game...there is your maze.
Other GMs out there? How would you feel if a player showed up this prepared?
Portable alter has a set price, and we aren't supposed to allow crafting, so if you had a portable alter and time to prep, I would give you your shrine.
Others I will sleep on it.
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I wouldn't mind some PFS or Mark-related guidance on how to handle temporary setups, myself. My inclination as a GM is that a spirit is unlikely to hang around a temporary setup, and my inclination as a player is to wonder what the heck I'm supposed to do to stay functional if I can't channel a spirit.
I also thought that those were only examples of places not the only places.
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I would be totally into the flavor of a PFS House-Rule that says that due to the large conflux of adventurers and legendary heroes, Pathfinder Lodges all count as any of the six kinds of locations.
I think this is a brilliant and thematic solution to the issue. For adventures with long travel/wilderness components, the issue may still remain, but this at least means the PC can always load in the spirit/role the party needs (as almost every single adventure starts in a lodge, even if it does so through retroactive box text) and often visits one at some point.
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I would be totally into the flavor of a PFS House-Rule that says that due to the large conflux of adventurers and legendary heroes, Pathfinder Lodges all count as any of the six kinds of locations.
I like that rule, right up until I remember some adventures that start you in a boat, sometimes several days or weeks into a journey, and the entire adventure is on said boat.
Otherwise, yes, it's a great plan.
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In that scenario, there are suitable locations for every spirit on board.
Archmage - places of unusual magic:
Champion - places of violence:
Guardian - forts: The Ship's Forcastle
Hierophant - Any altar will do, but if you don't have one, there is
Marshal - stages:
Trickster - Taverns & Trap Filled Locations:
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I believe that the class feature requiring particular locations to channel a legend are intended to be a handicap, much the same as an oracle's curse or a wizard's reliance on his spellbook is designed to be a drawback.
If every Pathfinder Lodge counts as a stage, a maze, etc, then there's no drawback. If a PC can carry "portable forts" / libraries / etc. around with him, then there's no drawback.
At my table, you'll need to do more than "perform a small monologue for your friends" out in the woods if you want to channel a legend that requires a stage.
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I believe that the class feature requiring particular locations to channel a legend are intended to be a handicap, much the same as an oracle's curse or a wizard's reliance on his spellbook is designed to be a drawback.
If every Pathfinder Lodge counts as a stage, a maze, etc, then there's no drawback. If a PC can carry "portable forts" / libraries / etc. around with him, then there's no drawback.
At my table, you'll need to do more than "perform a small monologue for your friends" out in the woods if you want to channel a legend that requires a stage.
As the FAQ linked by Markov mentions, it's intended to be part of the RP of the class, and it might be possible that a character can't channel all 6 spirits in particular circumstances, but the character can set up a location. Your example of such "do a small monologue for friends in the woods" I agree wouldn't be enough, but if you searched through the woods for a little while for a clearing with good acoustics, set up in the best acoustic spot to carry throughout the clearing, and then did a performance? I'd say that's a stage.
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I believe that the class feature requiring particular locations to channel a legend are intended to be a handicap, much the same as an oracle's curse or a wizard's reliance on his spellbook is designed to be a drawback.
If every Pathfinder Lodge counts as a stage, a maze, etc, then there's no drawback. If a PC can carry "portable forts" / libraries / etc. around with him, then there's no drawback.
At my table, you'll need to do more than "perform a small monologue for your friends" out in the woods if you want to channel a legend that requires a stage.
Frankly, I agree with this, but it also makes things alot more complicated; especially for the kami medium archetype that only has 1 suggested location for some of its spirits. Relic channeler is not an option for me. It trades out all the good stuff to make the class more playable, a strange tradeoff if you ask me.
I mean, I don't even mind switching out spirits during a session (That's part of what makes the class interesting) and I will certainly keep extra character sheets for all the versions of my character, but in the end what bothers me is that some parts of it are literally unplayable in that sense, even with the FAQ.
I had an idea to solve this: My character (Let's call her Lucy) has bonded with six spirits over the years as she encountered them again and again in the weirdest of places. She considers them her friends: the offer advice, company and even some magical powers!
- Bob, the mage that died before he could complete his life's work and seeks to finish it through Lucy.
- Ed, an evil knight that got a chance to redeem his soul through helping her do good things.
- Al, a failed king's guard that's sad he couldn't help anyone when he was alive and sees opportunity in Lucy.
- Magda, Lucy's mom, a priest of Calistria who sacrificed herself to eternally watch over her.
- Mini-lucy, a forlorn spirit whose name is unknown, but likes to pretend he's a miniature version of Lucy
- Durvin, an ex-pathfinder bound on making sure Lucy doesn't disgrace the society.
In the end, because of their conflicting nature, the spirits will probably not agree or succeed at their goals, but it does give me a nice opportunity to mix in some more stable roleplay in my games. As the local GM's get to know Lucy better, so will they better understand the spirits that accompany her and also be better able to make judgement calls as to when which spirit will heed Lucy's call, and when not. For example, Mini-lucy might be easier to get to show up than Ed, simply because of their reasons of showing up in the first place. What do you think?
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I believe that the class feature requiring particular locations to channel a legend are intended to be a handicap, much the same as an oracle's curse or a wizard's reliance on his spellbook is designed to be a drawback.
If every Pathfinder Lodge counts as a stage, a maze, etc, then there's no drawback. If a PC can carry "portable forts" / libraries / etc. around with him, then there's no drawback.
At my table, you'll need to do more than "perform a small monologue for your friends" out in the woods if you want to channel a legend that requires a stage.
At what tables have you told a player that they can't take their spellbook with them? And how does a curse, which is a static always on penalty with a built in benefit even apply to a case with a character simply not getting their class benefit for the day?
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I had a Castle Grayskull "Spirit House" when I was a kid.
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okay.... mainly I run wizard types so I'm coming from that angle.
When you sit at a table and before the introduction box text is read by the GM, you are assumed to have your spell list memorized from the previous day. I say this as it's unmentioned and that's the usual procedure as the time of the intro is generally not specifically given. A few scenarios give you days of travel and then adventuring, so you have to change spells as you go.
so... what do you do?
There are generally 4 methods people use and I'll go by frequency(highest to least);
1) memorize your full list.
2) memorize your full list leaving one slot open per level.
3) memorize just a core frequently used set and leave about 50%+ of your slots open.
4) memorize nothing.I'd advocate 3.
It will take you an hour or so to populate your list, but that's not that bad. You have a core set so you can haul a$$ if you need to (so lock your doors at night and pull your covers up tight to keep the Drang away).
there are several scenarios where #3 and #4 will cause you problems...
You get less than an hour to start your adventure and still have to travel across town... so whatever spells you have prepared are what you have.I can also recall a couple adventures where you don't have access to any equipment (though you do have a few days before being in that situation) - so no preparing spells in the (several days) "adventure time". Running a Wizard in those are hard as you don't have access to spellbooks to get your spells at the start of the day. You use a spell on day one, the slot says empty for the next few days (no spellbook to prep from).
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remember that you can memorize on horseback or more easily in a wagon (stable setting)... it's why I advocate 3 over 4 as at least you have something in those rare situations where you have no time.
Sometimes you are shorn of your stuff... it's just part of the game. My characters buy a handy haversack and a pathfinder pouch early on. The HH can go in the pouch in a pinch and the pouch can go on any article of clothing (underwear, inside of sock, money belt...). Just have it written down on your Item Tracking Sheet. An remember not to gripe when the GM tells you it's a full round action to pull your pants down and get out your not-so-Handy Haversack! (I avoided the non-PC pun...)
just be prepared for the judge to rule against your ability to prepare spells is all... YMMV.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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At what tables have you told a player that they can't take their spellbook with them? And how does a curse, which is a static always on penalty with a built in benefit even apply to a case with a character simply not getting their class benefit for the day?
I usually ask wizards going into dangerous environments (such as underwater, or on a different plane) whether they're taking their spellbooks. Some leave theirs back at the Lodge.
I have seen several witches who take their familiars into danger, both as a GM and a fellow player, and those "walking spellbooks" sometimes die.
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I apologize in advance for using you as an example, my friend, but your language reminds me of a common assertion I've seen on these threads, and I'd like to address it using your post as an example.
You use the term "class benefit" as if the character were entitled to use it, without regard for circumstances. Clerics who stash away their holy symbols in inhospitable lands still have the class feature of spellcasting, but it's sharply curtailed without a holy symbol.
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Hells, I'd go trickster if I had to due to it being the only favored seance spirit location available when I prep my spells. That's not the point.
You use the term "class benefit" as if the character were entitled to use it, without regard for circumstances.
Would you then say that the small amount (1!) of favored locations for one of the Kami Medium spirits was intended, as to prevent use of the "champion spirit"? This would seem strange to me, as people who would want to focus on said champion spirit (As opposed to the versatility the class brings that's the actual core strength of the class) would have to go to great lengths to be able to reliably channel that spirit at all.
Therefore I think it's important any GM in society should get to know a little bit about the medium class, as the favored locations also seem to be the only limiting factor available to them besides not being able to switch spirits during the day.
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Venture-Agent, Ohio—Columbus
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The reason for the difficulty isn't the location - it's that hour doing the seance and random encounters (being disturbed).
that's it...
You're spot on. That's why no one plays wizards, clerics, druids, magi or any other class that needs an hour every day to prepare their class features.
The way I look at it as a GM with a Medium in the group is Golarion and all it's locations have a long rich history with the potential for many echoes of legends past, granted it's not for PFS.
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@Stephen:
What constitutes a library? Is there a minimum number of books or scrolls/documents? Some Pathfinders would have backpacks that might constitute a library, what with all their copies of the various Pathfinder Chronicles, or cookbooks, or scroll libraries...
As to stage, I would just like to cite Shakespeare: "All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players in it."
On taverns: I would be surprised if you couldn't, easily, get an hour undisturbed in many taverns. For PFS, just consider the Wounded Wisp, where some of the patrons listed in the scenario are mentioned as spending a lot of time there.
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However, there is an archetype in the book that lets the Medium disregard the requirements of being in the specific location for the Seance.
Would that punish players that chose that archetype by letting everyone waive the location requirements?
There are two major downsides of the archetype:
1. You lose the ability to swap for needs with Hierophant and Archmage spirits, which is something that a lot of people desire with the class.
2. You have not 1, not 2, but 6 bonds to pay attention to.