Blown fighter build with no money. Can he be fixed?


Advice

1 to 50 of 66 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

So I wanted a dashing, acrobatic-yet-strength-based fighter who could dish out massive damage, and built:

STR 18
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 8
CHA 14

Yes, they're far from perfect; I'm a non-optimizer at heart.

Following the suggestion of the Carrion Crown AP, I made him a Weapons Master of the greatsword.

Cue the horror:
- For my hit points I rolled a 5, 5, 2, and 1. My 5th level fighter has the fewest hit points in the group, including the sorcerer, the druid, and the bard.
- The Carrion Crown AP does not believe in money, apparently. At 5th level I'd gained all of 2300 g.p. total. The group is an absolutist, "You get your share and nothing more," kind of group, so my total equipment is a regular greatsword (not even masterwork), masterwork chainmail, and masterwork composite bow with +4 STR.

So I have a 5th level fighter with an AC of 18 and 33 hit points. He's going to die unless he can raise his AC fast and furious, but the AP doesn't provide enough gold to do it. He's too stupid to take Combat Expertise, and Shield of Swings will give him better AC, but at the cost of half his damage.

Any suggestions as to a path I could follow to keep him alive and get him some AC with the stats as written?

Sometimes, you just have to live (or die) with your mistakes...


Your ability scores aren't ideal, but I think they could be fine, depending on how "optimized" the DM expects you to be. My suggestion is to petition the DM the reroll hit points.


Die and reroll a paladin for carrion crown:P

Liberty's Edge

You're not wrong that Carrion Crown skimps on treasure, plus it doesn't offer much in the way of making extra cash. I would make your concern known to the GM, and see if there's a way he can work in a chance to make more cash or get some better armor. Also, if your GM is worth their salt, they'll be sure to change around some weapon drops to fit your character.

I would also petition for a hp reroll, or at the very least, ask if you can go with the PFS standard of 6 hp + Con mod per level.


Keep an eye open for items to increase your CON and demand it as part of your share if you find one. As the low man on the hit point totem pole, the other players should see the logic inherent in your PC being the one most in need of it.
Take the Improved Toughness feat.
Wear a buckler.
Loot more effectively. I have a hard time believing that Carrion Crown is that treasure-poor.


Wow... I stumbled on this thinking it couldn't be that bad...

Really the only problem you have is the lack of GP. Did you buy the bow and armour?

And yes Carrion Crown is pretty treasure poor compared to most.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

This is why I give players maximum hit points at every level. The balance is maintained between classes, I don't have to deal with the min/maxxers promising me that they rolled perfect one more time, or the roleplayers wandering about with half the hit points of the rest of the party.

It makes me wonder why the low hit point fighter remained in his profession, since he's obvious haemopheliac and prone to crying when hit.


Honestly your ability scores are decent enough to get by in an ap. It's mostly your hp that's a problem.

Load up on magic items that give temporary hp, damage reduction, energy absorption, spell resistance, a miss chance on enemy attacks, anything you can find that'll make you get hit less, and that will lessen the blow when you do get hit. Prior to magic items being readily available, prioritize heavy armor and stay away from the front line when fighting things with touch attacks, because your AC is going to be the only thing keeping you alive.

Also, while I haven't gotten all of Carrion Crown yet so I can only guess, normally a big lack of treasure in an AP signals that there's a massive batch of treasure to make up for that lack of gold somewhere not too far up ahead.


Just play him and ask the GM to let the group do some side quest to earn more money to get you up to wealth by level mark as Pc and as party.

The Exchange

Book 1 is kinda skimpy but you should have some magic items, search the prison better? If I recall correctly/or gm didnt make it up you got paid early book two for fulfilling the will.


GeneticDrift wrote:

Book 1 is kinda skimpy but you should have some magic items, search the prison better? If I recall correctly/or gm didnt make it up you got paid early book two for fulfilling the will.

In our game when we were about to get paid the NPC offered to pay us double if we do another job. That was 3 Game sessions ago and I most likely be 2 or 3 more till we get the money.

Grand Lodge

3 people marked this as a favorite.

You know, I read the thread title, and wanted to ask, "who's blowing the Fighter?"

Then I read the first post.


Note, I have zero knowledge of the AP in question

What characters are in the party? Just thinking that there might be some tricks to help you out in combat with synergy with some of the classes.

Also full build would be helpful.

That being said the HP seems to be the problem. This is why our group went with the HD average rounded up+con mod. Low hp hurts much more than high hp. Especially when talking about melee characters. I would try to ask the GM to impliment a rule we once used, if at anypoint your HP drops below the average rounded up, it is raised to that.

One really not optional, option would be going in for Die hard. It would give you 12 extra hp essentially at diminished ability function, but still one lucky crit is not so likely to drop you.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Yeah, that bow is a really solid find, especially since your DEX is pretty good. It could be the key helping you do some solid damage while keeping your low-HP butt outta the fire. Could you post the existing Feats and traits that you have?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
You know, I read the thread title, and wanted to ask, "who's blowing the Fighter?"

The bard?


blackbloodtroll wrote:

You know, I read the thread title, and wanted to ask, "who's blowing the Fighter?"

Then I read the first post.

LMFAO yah I thought the same thing... I thought this was a serious Roleplaying problem.. talk about context! lol

The hitpoints are bad but that is part of your character and while challenging it can be fun to roleplay,ect. Give it a try at least.

The money part does not make sense... Did you use up money to Cure a Curse or buy a real expensive one use magic item,ect? Can you give us a run down on your character's ENTIRE purchasing from Level 1 through level 5?

anyways... Talk to the DM.. and while not demanding it let him know that a 5th level Fighter with 2,300 GP is beyond not fair... (unless the entire party is the same and its a low level GP campaign).

A 5th level NPC has 2,400 gp of wealth... a 5th level PC should have about 10,500 GP wealth.

Does the rest of the party have the same wealth? Any DM worth his salt would never just run an AP without modifying it a little bit here and there...

People have asked for more information(Party make-up,ect), only because they want to understand and want to help(lots of helpful people here)


Our groups always do 3/4 dice+con(alternating round up/down even/odd levels) or roll+con, with a minimum of 2.

(technically we should change that to 3 now for the min, since wizards now have d6 instead of d4 and that would keep them at at least half health)

If the party is being absolutists... and the GM is not willing to moderate the HP problems, Take 5/6th level feats as PB/Precise shot and move into an archery role. That bow and a good Str means you will in a couple levels easily be doing decent damage, and when they complain that you're not standing in front of the squishies anymore, offer to compare HPs to determine who is a "squishy".


With not giving at least average hp per level ur dm is going to wipe yall.. With not giving appropiate wbl ur dm is going to wipe u... Having a single digit will save well into ur teen levels mean ur going to wipe the party at some point via domination..

I agree with rerolling a paladin, go angel blood aasimar, pick up deathless spirit alt racial trait, go oath of vengeance and wreck face..

stats: 20 point

str-15+2racial+1level =18
dex-12
con-14
int-9
wis-10
cha-15+2 =17 (+1 at 8th)

wear fullplate and use a falchion or a nodachi


Actually, there is more than 1 issue here:

1) Bad HP roll
petition the GM

2) Absolutist group
There is no teamwork. If they don't recognize the need to invest in 1 character first, then another, then the whole group is dysfunctional.

Are there just 4 of you?

3) I don't know the AP, but if it's that stingy with cash flow, it severely hampers your capability. Out of the 4, your character is the one who needs the most toys.


NobodysHome wrote:

So I wanted a dashing, acrobatic-yet-strength-based fighter who could dish out massive damage, and built:

STR 18
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 8
CHA 14

Yes, they're far from perfect; I'm a non-optimizer at heart.

Following the suggestion of the Carrion Crown AP, I made him a Weapons Master of the greatsword.

Can you share the rest of the build?

Grand Lodge

By the way, there is a difference between the non-optimizer, and the anti-optimizer.

The anti-optimizer goes out of his way to weaken his build, as he lacks the imagination to see another way to create flavor.


Yes CC is a bit treasure poor over the first 2 parts. My PCs correctly noted in part 2 that most of the treasure belongs to someone they are trying to save and it would not be right to loot it.

The gentleman in question was so impressed by their integrity that he awarded them enough gear to get everyone's wealth over where it should be. Part 3 isn't exactly loaded down with treasure until near the end.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'd tell your group that your fighter has decided that ranged weapons are going to be his speciality, since he doesn't feel tough enough to stand in the front lines.

Then put that lovely bow to work, and start pin cushioning your enemies, putting your groupmates between them and you.

Its obviously every man for himself about loot, why not do it during combat too?


Don't forget the Toughness feat.

And explain to the rest of your group that someone better be casting magic weapon for you....


By my figures he has the Toughness feat.

Maybe ask your GM about rebuilding your Class Abilities and Weapon Feats for the Archer Archetype and Longbow.


Azaelas Fayth wrote:

By my figures he has the Toughness feat.

Maybe ask your GM about rebuilding your Class Abilities and Weapon Feats for the Archer Archetype and Longbow.

Archery is a good suggestion.

And he can retrain fighter feats every few levels, no need for permission depending on his build :-)

Possibly look at arcane archer later - that will reduce gear problems further ;-)

Dark Archive

He means going from a Weapon Master (whose focus is on the Greatsword) to either a Weapon Master with a focus on the Longbow, or the Archer archetype.

Yeah, I'd honestly suggest speaking with your DM about that. You're really not in any kind of shape to be fighting in melee, and they're certainly not helping with that.


Many excellent responses. And I'm sorry -- he only WISHES he was being blown by the bard! Poor guy can't get a break anywhere!

Anyway, yes, it's kind of like getting drunk, wrapping your car around a tree, and then asking other people how to fix it, but starting to swap feats to archery may be the plan. And no, he doesn't have Toughness yet, so that's a 'must' at 7th level. At the moment, he hides behind the paladin, waits for something to run up and whack her, and then steps up and kills it. He doesn't lack for damage output, just AC and HP.

And Carrion Crown has the issue of wrapping up all its treasure value into things you think you're not supposed to get rid of, or things other people are using. The paladin got a +1 keen longsword because I do more damage with my greatsword. We have some 8,000 g.p. planchette for a ouija board that we never use, but that no one is willing to sell. So it's more that the party hasn't been willing to sell anything, so the gold's all wrapped up in non-optimized magic items.

And don't yell at me about Combat Reflexes, Bodyguard, and In Harm's Way -- those were his 1st and 2nd level feats back when I thought it would be really cool to start taking hits for other people...

Here we go:

--------------------------------------------------
Raj Sklaarson
Male Human (Varisian) Fighter (Weapon Master) 5
NG Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +2; Senses Perception -1
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 18, touch 12, flat-footed 16 (+6 armor, +2 Dex)
hp 33 (5d10+5)
Fort +5, Ref +3, Will +0; +1 bonus vs. effects targeting a Greatsword held by you.
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee +1 Heavy mace +10 (1d8+5/x2) and
Dagger +9 (1d4+4/19-20/x2) and
Greatsword +10 (2d6+7/19-20/x2)
Ranged Masterwork Composite longbow (Str +4) +8 (1d8+4/x3)
Special Attacks reliable strike: greatsword (1/day), weapon training +1: greatsword
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 14
Base Atk +5; CMB +9; CMD 21 (22 vs. Disarm, 22 vs. Sunder)
Feats Bodyguard, Combat Reflexes (3 AoO/round), Defiant Luck (1/day), In Harm's Way, Master Craftsman (Craft [weapons]), Power Attack -2/+4, Step Up
Traits Anatomist, On the Payroll
Skills Acrobatics -2 (-6 jump), Climb +4, Craft (weapons) +12, Escape Artist -2, Fly -2, Intimidate +8, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +4, Ride +4, Stealth -2, Survival +3, Swim +4
Languages Common, Varisian
SQ weapon guard +1: greatsword
Combat Gear Alchemist's fire (2), Holy water, Smokestick, Sunrod (5), Tanglefoot bag (2); Other Gear Masterwork Chainmail, +1 Heavy mace, Arrow, durable (20), Arrows (38), Dagger, Greatsword, Masterwork Composite longbow (Str +4), Silver Arrows (6), Ale (per gallon) (5), Artisan's tools, masterworkCraft (weapons), Backpack (21 @ 78.5 lbs), Courtier's outfit, Custom Container, Mug/tankard, Rope, Waterskin, 36 PP, 137 GP, 14 SP, 5 CP
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Anatomist +1 to confirm critical hits.
Bodyguard Use an AoO to use aid another to improve an ally's AC.
Combat Reflexes (3 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Defiant Luck (1/day) Reroll a natural 1 on a save, or force a reroll of a critical hit confirmation roll.
In Harm's Way When you aid another's AC and the attack succeeds, you may take the damage and effects of that attack yourself.
Master Craftsman (Craft [weapons]) +2 to chosen craft skill, its ranks count as CL for Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Reliable Strike: Greatsword (1/day) (Ex) Reroll attack roll, critical confirmation, miss chance or damage roll for your chosen weapon
Step Up When a foe makes a 5 ft step away from you, you can move 5 ft to follow them.
Weapon Guard +1: Greatsword (Ex) +1 CMD vs. Disarm and Sunder or other effects targeting your chosen weapon.
Weapon Training +1: Greatsword (Ex) +1 to hit and damage with your chosen weapon.
--------------------
Raj was born in Magnimar in 4689. If you believe his tale, his Vudran mother was an acolyte of Calistria performing her duties in the name of her goddess. Why she was in the House of Welcome in the district of Naos Raj does not explain. Once again according to Raj, his father was the elder Sklar Quah Sun Shaman, explaining his golden eyes and predilection for warm, dry climates.

His many scrapes in defense of his mother's honor caught the eye of the Order of the Nail, and they spent several weeks trying to tame him before handing him over to the City Watch in the ways of combat. Unfortunately, even the City Watch could not find a way to get him to take his training seriously, so they shipped him off to the Drunken Louts of Ill Repute, a local mercenary band known more for their legendary exploits in taverns than on the field of battle, but every one of whom was better with a blade than any drunken worshipper of Cayden Cailean had any right to be. They trained him in the bow for distance, the greatsword for large combats, and the short sword and dagger for close-in work.

While he loved his comrades and he loved Caydan Cailean, he found that their constant drunkenness and sloth was not to his liking, so he dubbed himself "Raj Sklaarson, Gentlemen for Hire" and set off on his own.

Many adventures later, a caravan guard job dropped him with a small pouch of gold and a big heart for adventure in Ravengro.

--------------------

Ipsen
Horse, Heavy
N Large Animal
Init +4; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +8
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 15, touch 13, flat-footed 11 (+4 Dex, -1 size, +2 natural)
hp 19 (2d8+10)
Fort +8 (+4 vs. hot or cold environments and to resist damage from suffocation), Ref +7, Will +3
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 50 ft.
Melee Bite (Horse, Heavy) +5 (1d4+5/x2) and
Hooves x2 (Horse, Heavy) +0 x2 (1d6+2/x2)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 20, Dex 18, Con 21, Int 2, Wis 17, Cha 11
Base Atk +1; CMB +7; CMD 21 (25 vs. Trip)
Feats Endurance, Run
Tricks Attack [Trick], Combat Riding [Trick], Come [Trick], Defend [Trick], Down [Trick], Guard [Trick], Heel [Trick]
Skills Acrobatics +4 (+8 to jump with a running start, +12 jump), Fly +2, Perception +8, Ride +4 (+6 to stay in the saddle.), Stealth +0, Swim +5 (+9 to resist nonlethal damage from exhaustion)
Languages
SQ combat riding [trick]
Other Gear Bedroll, Blanket, winter, Military saddle, Saddlebags (45 @ 70 lbs), Tent, small, Trail rations (42), You have no money!
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Combat Riding [Trick] The animal has been trained to bear a rider into combat.
Endurance +4 to a variety of skill checks. Sleep in L/M armor with no fatigue.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Run Run 5x your speed in light/medium armor or 4x speed in heavy armor and keep Dex when running.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Don't forget the human feat that lets you get both HP and Skill points for favored class. That's some more hit points.

The reason the classes use dice for hit points goes back to 1E when fighter types got massively better con bonuses then casters, and would inevitably pull ahead in hit points because of it.

This is no longer the case.

I'd petition the GM for rerolls, average hit points, or fighters getting a d6+4. At this point it's going to be almost impossible for you to have the 90-100 HP at 10th level expected of a fighter, and that is downright dangerous.

==aelryinth


Oh, and the party make-up is also part of the issue:
- A totally non-optimized sorcerer of the type Blackbloodtroll refers to; at 5th level his best offensive spell is still Disrupt Undead. We've started complaining to him, and he's pondering doing something useful at 6th level.
- A rogue whose entire focus is doing his precious +3d6; so much so that he spends every other round moving away from combat and rolling Stealth. If he doesn't roll well enough, he tries again, so he gets in one attack every 2-3 rounds. And misses. A lot.
- A druid who refuses to do anything other than send in his animal companion to fight. Spell support? What's that? He did get so much grief between the last two sessions that he started casting spells and helping the party immensely, but I don't think it'll last.
- A paladin whose player doesn't know what she's doing, but who is extremely enthusiastic. She's great when she's in the party, but that's less than every other session.
- A totally optimized bard who's already saved the party's lives at least 3 times. She kind of makes up for at least two of the other misfits.

So we're a band of misfit toys, we need a frontline fighter, and I just didn't get the HP or AC necessary, and after being stupid enough to choose Weapons Master, I'm kind of going to have to abandon my entire archetype and go archery or sword-n-board just to survive and give the party a chance...


Basically, your character doesn't fit into your campaign...

In one of my APs you would be fine.

Might I suggest talking to GM about saving this PC for another Campaign.

I know it isn't the best but it is the only suggestion I can come up with...


NobodysHome wrote:


- A rogue whose entire focus is doing his precious +3d6; so much so that he spends every other round moving away from combat and rolling Stealth. If he doesn't roll well enough, he tries again, so he gets in one attack every 2-3 rounds. And misses. A lot.

/facepalm

Introduce him to the marvelous wonder that is called 'flanking'. If he refuses to do it, beat the player with a rolled-up newspaper.

Other than that, try to get the group to cash in some of the weird treasure you've found so you can get something resembling decent armor.

Your main other option I can see is to die horribly and make Sklaar Rajsson, 5th Level Fighter, and roll better on HP this time. ;-P

(PF has point-buy for stats, why are we still supposed to get random HP?)


On occasion my group ends up creating a party without a single character's charisma above 10. I'm guessing you have a mostly pretty party?


A few updates; I hope people are enjoying this thread; I certainly am, even if Raj is looking more and more likely to die horribly next game...

(1) This is the group's first foray into PF. The GM is enjoying my PF campaigns so much he wanted to run one so I could be a player for once (I'm GM'ing 3 campaigns right now, and he's a player in two of them.) The group agreed, *only* if the GM would play *exactly* "by the rules" and play the AP "as written". So while I wouldn't call it out-and-out antagonism between the GM and the group, the fact that we're doing raw rolling for HP and base AP treasure even though there are six of us instead of four can be laid at the players' feet, rather than the GM's. I just got the short end of the stick, getting invited in late and then being told they needed a frontline fighter because they didn't have a single fighting class yet. (The cleric turned into a paladin after I'd already generated Raj.)
But I enjoy their company, it's a really fun game, and I'd like to fix Raj because I'm having fun playing him. I have a much more optimized wizard waiting in the wings to start wreaking mass destruction if Raj passes on...

(2) The rogue is aware of flanking, but nearly died the first time he tried it. So he decided to go with 'ranged rogue', and flanking doesn't give you the damage bonus with ranged weapons.

(3) Yes, we're a pretty group. Sorcerer, Bard, and Paladin all have CHA as a core stat, and I gave Raj CHA because I thought it would be fun to roleplay, and figured I could survive with a lower-than-ideal CON. (My barbarian had CON 16 and 50 hit points at 3rd level, so I was misled by ridiculous rolling on my last fighting class.)

(4) We got an extra 1300 gold last session, so I sold the +1 mace, bought a masterwork greatsword, and forged it into a +1 greatsword. I could have sold the mace and bought some masterwork plate instead, but as someone noted far above, no one's casting Magic Weapon for me, and CC has LOTS of incorporeal baddies so some kind of magic weapon is a must. So that was an intentional choice on my part to forego AC for one more level, but considering we'll be finishing off Book 2 next session, I figure there's a big haul coming in pretty soon and I'll be able to get some magic plate and an amulet of natural armor. (Belt of CON is on my list, but unlikely next level...)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

The ultimate weapon you want is actually a Sun Sword, preferably one with Ghost Touch added to it.

If you have to make your own and use a Greatsword, your next add on is Ghost Touch, followed by Undead Bane, followed by straight enhancement bonuses.

With low hit points, lousy AC is going to be a problem. Don't ignore AC, esp your touch AC. Unfortunately, Ghost Touch is extremely expensive on armor...

==Aelryinth


Aelryinth wrote:

The ultimate weapon you want is actually a Sun Sword, preferably one with Ghost Touch added to it.

If you have to make your own and use a Greatsword, your next add on is Ghost Touch, followed by Undead Bane, followed by straight enhancement bonuses.

With low hit points, lousy AC is going to be a problem. Don't ignore AC, esp your touch AC. Unfortunately, Ghost Touch is extremely expensive on armor...

==Aelryinth

There's another reason I'm avoiding heavy armor at the moment -- that 14 DEX is adding 2 to my touch AC. Yeah; everything wants to touch me.

I appreciate the weapon path, and Ghost Touch was definitely next, but what about Holy? Is it worth it?


NobodysHome wrote:

...

(4) We got an extra 1300 gold last session, so I sold the +1 mace, bought a masterwork greatsword, and forged it into a +1 greatsword. ...

Not to spoil your fun, but if you are playing by RAW, how did you do that without craft magic arms and armor feat, I did not see it in your post? Master craftsman only allows you to qualify for taking them, not actually doing the work...

Actually I would have suggested taking that craft feat for your next level to deal with the magic item problem yourself, so if I overlooked something, at least you are set there :-)

If you are looking at the archery route and you can still decide which of your feats you took as bonus combat feats, consider the in harm's way/bodyguard feats for that. You can change them on 8th and 12th level into something for archery.

If you do not want to change this, you can look at multiclassing or prestige classes (though you may need to invest a bit there):
- Horizon walker: You can gain abilities and I think some helpful feats there
- Barbarian: You wrote you played one before. Just multiclass into it, stylize your rage into frustration about not finding a good weapon and enjoy the CON boost. Take raging vitality to further up it.
- Other combat classes are viable as well. I bring this up because this way you can keep your fighter levels and not do a total rebuild. And you only loose a minor boost for greatsword at the level you are at...
- Monk of the sacred mountain grants you a lot of feats, including toughness, for two levels.

There are lots of way to shape your build up somewhat if you cannot get more cash. It just takes some time to work :-)


NobodysHome wrote:

So I wanted a dashing, acrobatic-yet-strength-based fighter who could dish out massive damage, and built:

STR 18
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 8
CHA 14

Yes, they're far from perfect; I'm a non-optimizer at heart.

Following the suggestion of the Carrion Crown AP, I made him a Weapons Master of the greatsword.

Cue the horror:
- For my hit points I rolled a 5, 5, 2, and 1. My 5th level fighter has the fewest hit points in the group, including the sorcerer, the druid, and the bard.
- The Carrion Crown AP does not believe in money, apparently. At 5th level I'd gained all of 2300 g.p. total. The group is an absolutist, "You get your share and nothing more," kind of group, so my total equipment is a regular greatsword (not even masterwork), masterwork chainmail, and masterwork composite bow with +4 STR.

So I have a 5th level fighter with an AC of 18 and 33 hit points. He's going to die unless he can raise his AC fast and furious, but the AP doesn't provide enough gold to do it. He's too stupid to take Combat Expertise, and Shield of Swings will give him better AC, but at the cost of half his damage.

Any suggestions as to a path I could follow to keep him alive and get him some AC with the stats as written?

Sometimes, you just have to live (or die) with your mistakes...

With those ability scores, I wouldn't complain about your HP. You could switch your con and charisma for more hp. Your bigger concern would be your low will save. Fighters have a base bad will save and then you dumped wisdom.


Sangalor wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

...

(4) We got an extra 1300 gold last session, so I sold the +1 mace, bought a masterwork greatsword, and forged it into a +1 greatsword. ...

Not to spoil your fun, but if you are playing by RAW, how did you do that without craft magic arms and armor feat, I did not see it in your post? Master craftsman only allows you to qualify for taking them, not actually doing the work...

Oooh -- you did just spoil my fun! Both the GM and I misunderstood Master Craftsman and thought it replaced "Craft Magic Arms and Armor", not just the prereq. Ouch!

Guess I'll be doing a bit of retconning on that. The good news is that we haven't played a session since then, so it's no biggie.


johnlocke90 wrote:


With those ability scores, I wouldn't complain about your HP. You could switch your con and charisma for more hp. Your bigger concern would be your low will save. Fighters have a base bad will save and then you dumped wisdom.

Oh, the bad will saves are a running source of hilarity; I wouldn't have it any other way. He and the rogue both dumped Wisdom, so every time a Will save comes up they're running for the hills while the paladin's stuck dealing with things.

There's a reason the GM doesn't have to modify the AP for 6 players...

EDIT: The low Will save has already saved his life, too; this group is old-school 1st-Edition, so they constantly demanded that "the fighter always goes in first," without regards to AC, HP, or common sense. I finally gave up fighting with them, did it a couple of times, blew my Will saves hopelessly, and they declared, "The fighter always goes in SECOND," and that's kept him alive at least twice.

Also, the bard decided that the fighter's Will save was so bad that she took Remove Fear, and it turned out to be one of the three times she's saved the party: We were up against an undead with a paralyzing fear effect plus two enhanced skeleton minions. The fighter and the rogue were paralyzed, the druid's animal companion was dead, the druid had wandered off to do other things, and the sorcerer was lobbing occasional Disrupt Undeads from the back. Just before the skeletons got in their coup de graces, the bard cast Remove Fear on the fighter, he took out the skeleton in front of him (lucky initiative order), and then crit the skeleton that was trying to coup de grace the rogue. Once the skeletons were down, the baddie was no trouble, so getting paralyzed and then revived at the last moment ended up being tactically sound. Go figure.

The Exchange

It's cheesy as cheesy can be, but how about dipping Synthesist Summoner next level? You've got a decent Charisma, and the buffer Hit Points would help, not to mention a bit of casting of your own. Have the eidolon suit look like that shiney suit of armour no-body is letting you buy and see if they get the hint... ;)

Humanoid base eidolon. Spend 2 evolution points on Ability Increase - Strength and you match your current Strength of 18. Dexterity 12 is a bit of a dip, but Con 13 is a little up. Slap on Improved Natural Armour and you get a +4 natural armour to start, and can cast both Mage Armour and Shield as a level 1 Summoner. Make sure to define the eidolon's claws evolution it gets for free as being on the eidolon suit's feet and you can two-hand with your greatsword and throw the claws in as essentially free secondary natural attacks. Plus Summon Monster I 5x per day as a SLA can't hurt... ;)


NobodysHome wrote:
johnlocke90 wrote:


With those ability scores, I wouldn't complain about your HP. You could switch your con and charisma for more hp. Your bigger concern would be your low will save. Fighters have a base bad will save and then you dumped wisdom.

Oh, the bad will saves are a running source of hilarity; I wouldn't have it any other way. He and the rogue both dumped Wisdom, so every time a Will save comes up they're running for the hills while the paladin's stuck dealing with things.

There's a reason the GM doesn't have to modify the AP for 6 players...

EDIT: The low Will save has already saved his life, too; this group is old-school 1st-Edition, so they constantly demanded that "the fighter always goes in first," without regards to AC, HP, or common sense. I finally gave up fighting with them, did it a couple of times, blew my Will saves hopelessly, and they declared, "The fighter always goes in SECOND," and that's kept him alive at least twice.

Also, the bard decided that the fighter's Will save was so bad that she took Remove Fear, and it turned out to be one of the three times she's saved the party: We were up against an undead with a paralyzing fear effect plus two enhanced skeleton minions. The fighter and the rogue were paralyzed, the druid's animal companion was dead, the druid had wandered off to do other things, and the sorcerer was lobbing occasional Disrupt Undeads from the back. Just before the skeletons got in their coup de graces, the bard cast Remove Fear on the fighter, he took out the skeleton in front of him (lucky initiative order), and then crit the skeleton that was trying to coup de grace the rogue. Once the skeletons were down, the baddie was no trouble, so getting paralyzed and then revived at the last moment ended up being tactically sound. Go figure.

As much as it is funny right now to have those low will saves, I don't think your character will make it to higher levels. There are simply too many spells and effects that require you to have a decent will saves - or you are screwed/dead/crippled/whatever.

I would really advise to address this problem - your will is simply much too low. Multiclassing can help with that to a certain degree.

Assistant Software Developer

I removed an offensive post and the replies to it.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

NobodysHome wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

The ultimate weapon you want is actually a Sun Sword, preferably one with Ghost Touch added to it.

If you have to make your own and use a Greatsword, your next add on is Ghost Touch, followed by Undead Bane, followed by straight enhancement bonuses.

With low hit points, lousy AC is going to be a problem. Don't ignore AC, esp your touch AC. Unfortunately, Ghost Touch is extremely expensive on armor...

==Aelryinth

There's another reason I'm avoiding heavy armor at the moment -- that 14 DEX is adding 2 to my touch AC. Yeah; everything wants to touch me.

I appreciate the weapon path, and Ghost Touch was definitely next, but what about Holy? Is it worth it?

Holy is a +2 Effect. With Power Attack, you can take a +2/+2 and turn it into +0/+6...or +0/+8, later on. If you get a Sun Sword, it's automatically +2/+2 against Evil, so the only thing you'll need it for is bypassing some DR...which takes care of itself at +5, anyways.

Ask your DM if you can get the +2/+2 vs Evil effect of the Sun sword as a +1 Effect (since it's not a +2 effect). Double damage against undead, however, is the eventual goal (and at which point you'll be laughing as you smash them for 80+ a hit, or somethign). Note that if you can get that before you get the third book, you won't need silver...

===Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

BTW, invest in a +1 Ghost Touch Net as absolutely soon as you can. Have the rest of the party chip in.

Incorporeals have NO WAY to get out of it, since they don't have a Str score.

==Aelryinth


Toughness, AC booster, and CON boosters. Sorry can't suggest more.


Here's the skinny (IMO) see if you can't get the GM to let you take another archetype. Just retconn it. You're still a fighter...

The fighter is a sucky class for the first book or so in this AP but there will be some serious
stuff to stomp later. So just wait.

My suggestion would be to take mobile fighter, if the GM allows you to switch archetypes. Start sporting a shield. You'll get the first two armor trainings. Wait until 8th level, bump the dex one point to qualify for TWF, by then you should have picked up improved shield bash and should be able to thump and slash.

by 11th level you can be TWF sword and board doing full moves and almost completely full attacking. (something that is a weak spot for every other fighty type out there)

The other option, if you can't switch archetypes, is to ignore your archetype for a time, and carry a shield and longsword for a few levels. Just be a mundane fighter for a while, if only to survive. A Tower shield should be cheap, and will give you 4 more AC.
IF something doesn't seem to scary you can drop the shield and two hand your longsword on it's cranium.


NobodysHome wrote:

So I wanted a dashing, acrobatic-yet-strength-based fighter who could dish out massive damage, and built:

STR 18
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 8
CHA 14

Sometimes, you just have to live (or die) with your mistakes...

Ok so here is your retconned 5th level mobile fighter (as dashy of an archetype as they come.)

STR 18
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 8
CHA 12

AC 25 (10+shield(2)+full plate(9)+Dex(2)+shield focus(1)+ dodge (1) [29 vs. AoO from moving]
HP 43

Class abilities: agility (+1 save vs. effects that cause you to become slowed, paralyzed or entangled)
Leaping attack: move at least 5 ft and gain +1 to attack and damage, +1 more at levels 10,15,20
Armor training 1

Feats: (7) Toughness; Improved shield bash; Dodge; Mobility (+4 AC vs AoO caused by movement); spring attack; shield focus; weapon focus (longsword)

Your problem is solved young padawan, without making a new character, and without demanding any re-rolls. Just retconning some choices.

Assumed gear ATM is Full plate and heavy shield (which you should be able to afford now)

Edit:
Oh did you get your +1 to stat at level 4? If not that should be a 15 dex, and I would chose a different feat than weapon focus, I'd have two-weapon fighting in there.

1 to 50 of 66 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Blown fighter build with no money. Can he be fixed? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.