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With regards to the hardcovers, since most of the "low hanging fruits" have been picked already (what's left? Ultimate Skill and Advanced Psionics Guide?), I wonder what effect, if any, new hardcovers will have on being able to respond to issues.
I don't think it's unfair to say that it's not too rare to hear "We'll deal with issue X when we have more time after event Y", where Y is a hardcover, PaizoCon, or GenCon. And then when that event passes, and the Y+1 shows up, pushing the issue back further. Would the less obvious hardcovers mean more time would be needed to be spent on them to get a coherent theme?
I'm also hoping that the hiring of Logan will help alleviate pressure.
You know what could use a little fleshing out? I still need a good write-up for my kobold cavalier's giant weasel mount so I can stop re-skinning dogs. How low-hanging is that fruit, eh?
.....
J/K
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Ah! I was wondering why I originally had a mental connection between many of the obvious hardcovers being released already and its effects on how easily Paizo could deal with these issues. I've gotten to the point where I personally would rather see more of a focus on supporting pre-existing rules (clarifying them or things like adding more ranger tricks to the skirmisher archetype) relative to producing brand new content. While I understand that you can't go too far or you stagnate, I would greatly appreciate a higher proportion of energy being spent clarifying rules and the like.
Of course, some of my most-wondered about questions have been answered recently, so maybe my feelings will change a bit.
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A poll on whether Paizo should focus on quality vs quantity would be informative, but unfortunately it would not be likely to be useful from an editorial perspective.
The bottom line is that Paizo needs to make money. They have a business model. That business model drives the creation process. Right now the business model is one that puts stress on the developers to produce quantity, and in the absence of infinite resources, that means something else has to give.
A more useful poll would be one which asks customers if they would be willing to pay more for higher quality, so that Paizo can decide if they can keep their income where it needs to be if they drop the quantity of stuff they produce.
Unfortunately a marketing director, if one is hired, is just going to tell the editorial team that even if they do such a poll, what people say in a poll will not necessarily match what they do with their money.
It's a tough deal. I've been there. I sympathize with the people who have to produce the stuff Paizo sells.
Like others here I am willing to accept a certain level of quality control and so far Paizo has been able to maintain a pretty good track record in that area compared to other game system companies. But the existence of threads like this would be something that would be setting alarm bells off in my head if I owned the responsibility for product quality.
While some of the issues I'd like to see resolved are truly corner cases, some are not.
I keep hoping that the reason there is so much pressure on the folks on James' staff is because they are working on a PF 2.0 that fixes some of the horrible design flaws they inherited.
Fix the magic item system and I'll forgive a whole lot of feat/ability synergy issues. :)
Creative Director
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With regards to the hardcovers, since most of the "low hanging fruits" have been picked already (what's left? Ultimate Skill and Advanced Psionics Guide?), I wonder what effect, if any, new hardcovers will have on being able to respond to issues.
I don't think it's unfair to say that it's not too rare to hear "We'll deal with issue X when we have more time after event Y", where Y is a hardcover, PaizoCon, or GenCon. And then when that event passes, and the Y+1 shows up, pushing the issue back further. Would the less obvious hardcovers mean more time would be needed to be spent on them to get a coherent theme?
I'm also hoping that the hiring of Logan will help alleviate pressure.
You know what could use a little fleshing out? I still need a good write-up for my kobold cavalier's giant weasel mount so I can stop re-skinning dogs. How low-hanging is that fruit, eh?
.....
J/K
Those looking for stats for giant weasels had better make sure they pick up a copy of Pathfinder #67.
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Those looking for stats for giant weasels had better make sure they pick up a copy of Pathfinder #67.With regards to the hardcovers, since most of the "low hanging fruits" have been picked already (what's left? Ultimate Skill and Advanced Psionics Guide?), I wonder what effect, if any, new hardcovers will have on being able to respond to issues.
I don't think it's unfair to say that it's not too rare to hear "We'll deal with issue X when we have more time after event Y", where Y is a hardcover, PaizoCon, or GenCon. And then when that event passes, and the Y+1 shows up, pushing the issue back further. Would the less obvious hardcovers mean more time would be needed to be spent on them to get a coherent theme?
I'm also hoping that the hiring of Logan will help alleviate pressure.
You know what could use a little fleshing out? I still need a good write-up for my kobold cavalier's giant weasel mount so I can stop re-skinning dogs. How low-hanging is that fruit, eh?
.....
J/K
Noted!
Guys, the more important issue is that alchemists will be able to make constructs.
Homunculi throwing bombs, animate flasks running towards those you wish to help (with infusion, of course!), misunderstood horrors brought back to life from disparate body parts, balms to temporarily grant life to everyday objects...
"Animate flasks running towards those you wish to help..."
Cheapy.... Thank you.
Lol!
I look forward to such things as well.
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Ah! I was wondering why I originally had a mental connection between many of the obvious hardcovers being released already and its effects on how easily Paizo could deal with these issues. I've gotten to the point where I personally would rather see more of a focus on supporting pre-existing rules (clarifying them or things like adding more ranger tricks to the skirmisher archetype) relative to producing brand new content. While I understand that you can't go too far or you stagnate, I would greatly appreciate a higher proportion of energy being spent clarifying rules and the like.
Of course, some of my most-wondered about questions have been answered recently, so maybe my feelings will change a bit.
I feel you here Cheapy. I'd love to see more ranger tricks, new poisons, and similar support for the existing material. I tend to pick up a lot of the Abandoned Arts .pdf's for their cool spell-less alternatives to some of the gish-type classes, and seeing some core support for similar archetypes from Paizo would be cool. I think it was mentioned in another thread, but a deities and demigods book a la 3.5 Forgotten Realms with deity-specific prestige classes or archetypes for Golarion could also be fun (I know they've dabbled in this a little with some of the splat books). I definitely feel like there's room for further fleshing out on the existing material.
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I keep hoping that the reason there is so much pressure on the folks on James' staff is because they are working on a PF 2.0 that fixes some of the horrible design flaws they inherited.
Nope. We're not working on a 2nd edition of the game. Launching a 2nd edition of a game when the 1st edition is still increasing in popularity is not a good idea. Maybe once we get the idea that Pathfinder's reached a sales plateau we'll start working on a 2nd edition, but until we get the feeling that we're reaching or have reached such a sales plateau... we're not going to devote much resources in house to fixing something that our sales numbers are telling us isn't, overall, broken.
The reason there's pressure is because we're producing a LOT of product, and we need to keep them on schedule. We've managed to get the Pathfinder Adventure Path line on schedule, and now we have to keep running full speed with that schedule to keep it on schedule, but at the same time have to ramp up to get the other lines on schedule... some of which (like the modules) are WAY off schedule.
We've been hiring a fair number of new employees to help with this—the fact that we hired Adam Daigle to help with the Adventure Path is essentially what allowed the Adventure Path to get on schedule. But it's a slow process—and one complicated by the fact that we're actually running out of room, physically, to put all the employees we need into our two-story building.
It's kind of a good problem to have, though! :)
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But if you can keep a straight face while telling me that the Instant Enemy/Bane combo or Vital Strike/Spring Attack issues are major, game-derailing issues that require priority attention, then your definition of "major," "game-derailing," "require," and "priority" differs radically from mine.Instant Enemy/Bane probably isn't. After all if there was a printed NPC that used them together we'd have an answer.
Vital Strike/Spring Attack is. How the issue is resolved will impact not only how every single printed NPC to have both feats operates, but whether mobile combat builds are viable at all. Essentially this issue determines whether it's possible for anyone but a beast totem barbarian, a druid, or a synthesist to break out of the stand in place and full attack paradigm without a horse and a lance.
Or a horse and bow!
James, I guessed as much. :)
If I wasn't making so much money in my current career, I might be tempted to apply at Paizo...
Just for what it may be worth, in my past life as a subscription software publisher, what I learned (the hard way) was that there is a critical mass of content that we were able to support, and once that critical mass was exceeded, our situation (and job satisfaction) dramatically changed. I had to make some hard decisions and terminate some products to get us back on even keel, and I lost some good employees in the process.
The subscription products we produced had a sort of momentum or inertia that was hard to see until it hit us like a freight train. When it did hit we had some long painful periods of working our butts off just to keep up. Eventually working 12 hour days wears you down. And when your income depends on those products going out the door on schedule... man I've never had that kind of pressure in any other job I've ever been in.
So I feel for ya. I really do.
But in the end the realities of the market are pretty unforgiving. Just remember that a large fraction, probably a majority, of your customers were once TSR customers, which gives an idea of how far pure brand loyalty actually carries a business.
It's certainly frustrating to see errors show up in print, just as it is frustrating when two different philosophies of game design sometimes clash together. We're doing what we can to adjust things. We ARE working on solving the issue with the monk, but the timing of when we do that and release that information has to work hand in hand with other things, like our regularly scheduled production responsibilities, RPG Superstar, Mythic Playtests, Convention duties, licensing stuff (such as with the minis, comics, or Goblinworks), and vacations/personal lives.
To a certain extent, though, fans of the game need to help. First, but letting us know when we mess up is important. It might take several months or even a year or more to see that error corrected in print due to the time it takes for us to turn the metaphorically immense battleship that is Paizo Publishing, but if we don't realize or know we made a mistake, we can't fix it at all in the first place.
I still will keep championing for annual PDF updates. While what is said above is done to some extent, it is only limited to the Core line. When I read through a book I notice the errors that pop up, the latest is mixing gender use even to the extent of 2 releases having he/she denoting the same person in a single paragraph. Someone at Paizo is getting paid to notice these errors and while many hands can be in the mix it has to be someone that has the final set of eyes in this regard. I don't know how much outside of those who work on the book get to look over it with fresh eyes but lately the pace seems to be showing through the cracks in various places, mostly with editing. Perhaps I am just extra sensitive to picking out and being annoyed by errors that are likely to never be fixed under the current policy.
The issue that stands is the policy of only releasing errata on reissue of a product, which once again only happens with the Core line. All other lines rarely if ever see an update, Winter Witch being the last example I can think of. Even if an ongoing database was kept in-house it would allow for PDF updates of the products on an annual basis by setting aside some time during a slower period of the year to apply the updates in product PDFs and as update PDFs for hard copy owners. While these are small things in the big scheme of it all, it does matter to a segment of the community.
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As Jason's said in another thread on the topic (I believe it was on the NPC Codex errata thread or something like that), the Vital Strike/Spring Attack thing in NPC Codex was an error and it will be fixed in the book's errata.
So as far as that particular bugaboo is concerned... no change from the established rule. You still can't Vital Strike and Spring Attack. And it seems to be apparent that we need to once again remind our authors, developers, and rules editors of that as well.
Fix the magic item system and I'll forgive a whole lot of feat/ability synergy issues. :)And for the record... I for one don't think the magic system is broken.
Just in case you misread, I didn't say the "magic system" is broken.
I said the "magic ITEM system" is broken.
I like the magic system. That's why I play Pathfinder instead of 4e. But magic items and how they are created, priced, factored into the game and create the famous "Christmas Tree" effect are frequent targets of criticism, and not just from me.
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What are the messageboard rules?
The most important rule: Don't be a jerk.
There are many posts in this thread that cross that line.
Stop feeling entitled to demand answers from James.
Behave yourself.
I still will keep championing for annual PDF updates. While what is said above is done to some extent, it is only limited to the Core line. When I read through a book I notice the errors that pop up, the latest is mixing gender use even to the extent of 2 releases having he/she denoting the same person in a single paragraph. Someone at Paizo is getting paid to notice these errors and while many hands can be in the mix it has to be someone that has the final set of eyes in this regard. I don't know how much outside of those who work on the book get to look over it with fresh eyes but lately the pace seems to be showing through the cracks in various places, mostly with editing. Perhaps I am just extra sensitive to picking out and being annoyed by errors that are likely to never be fixed under the current policy.
The issue that stands is the policy of only releasing errata on reissue of a product, which once again only happens with the Core line. All other lines rarely if ever see an update, Winter Witch being the last...
I can't speak to everything in this post, but I can say this: PDFs are handled by a staff member all on their own. Each PDF update goes through a series of hands before it is released to customers. If there were annual PDF updates, it would get funneled through a process fairly similar to how we handle errata documents now (gathering information, updating the original documents, editors looking through it, the art department adjusting the layout as necessary, and then approval) before we could even provide it to you. This also presents a problem for latest printings and PDFs and even potentially the PRD not matching up with each other. This also means that once a year, all of those staff members divert attention from their regular job just to update products, which presents it's own set of challenges.
I still will keep championing for annual PDF updates. While what is said above is done to some extent, it is only limited to the Core line. When I read through a book I notice the errors that pop up, the latest is mixing gender use even to the extent of 2 releases having he/she denoting the same person in a single paragraph. Someone at Paizo is getting paid to notice these errors and while many hands can be in the mix it has to be someone that has the final set of eyes in this regard. I don't know how much outside of those who work on the book get to look over it with fresh eyes but lately the pace seems to be showing through the cracks in various places, mostly with editing. Perhaps I am just extra sensitive to picking out and being annoyed by errors that are likely to never be fixed under the current policy.The issue that stands is the policy of only releasing errata on reissue of a product, which once again only happens with the Core line. All other lines rarely if ever see an update, Winter Witch being the last...
Nukruh, believe it or not, some of the stuff you are noticing can be caused by too much editorial review, not just too little.
I also am far too attuned to grammar and spelling issues when reading, and it is jarring, but generally speaking I can get around those things easily enough if the core material is sufficiently compelling. To me what is important is that the product's fundamental purpose is being achieved which is a different sort of editorial control than proofreading is.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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Yeah, this discussion probably should have been ended on the first page.
Look, as someone who has bought something from almost every product line that Paizo has, and who reads everything that is put into my hands, I don't want there to be product cuts. I also don't find myself annoyed by mistakes or problems that are mentioned here.
Paizo is a company filled with Gamers (with a capital G!) who are doing an amazing and awesome job. I have shaken all of their hands (and taken pictures of them holding my squirrels,) and thanked them personally. I have hung out with them at bars and in hotel rooms and gotten to known them. They are not super powered people who are perfect. They have their flaws, they make mistakes. The difference between them and certain other companies is that they at least try to admit and fix their mistakes. Other companies wouldn't even give their customer's complaints the time of day.
Mr. Jacobs, you do a fine job and I have had the pleasure of telling you that in person twice. Next time I will be buying you a drink while I do it.
So, as someone who has seen this disaster of a discussion keeping the amazing Creative Director from doing his job after he made it beautifully clear that he is aware of the problem and doing what he can to fix it, I propose this discussion be closed. I for one want the Animals of Golarian book to stop being pushed back. My poor riding dog is going to be long dead by the time it comes out.
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I'm NOT FINE with folks belittling and insulting other posters on these boards when they compliment us,
Thank you for enduring the occasional verbally abusive tirade
But if they aren't complimenting us, feel free to take passive-aggressive swipes at them or gang up on them. We will nod and encourage such behavior from the background, again.
The problem with ramping back the rate of what we publish now is that would make Paizo less money, and that's not something that's really an option.
When looking at things from a bottom line standpoint, it's not always true that ramping back production will lower profit. The over saturation of markets with content can turn off potential customers (I know it hurt the Rifts line from Palladium, but they shot themselves in the foot repeatedly in other ways too). Also price delegation could swing the profits as well, so there are options.
However, I do not know nor begin to claim to have a grasp of Paizo's business model! We merely offer food for thought, and generally I have trust that you guys know what you're doing.
Thread: Paizo needs to get their house in order
Result: Paizo staff all make a house call to talk about their order!
Neat. =^.^=
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Wow.
RD, it boggles my mind how you can't have found your thread title as slightly more incendiary than a fuel air explosive. I'll accept you at your word that you didn't, but egads, man.
AD, I normally like many of your posts, but please take a step back and ask yourself how your comment about fan mail and your responses to JJ are constructive. Also, I'm not sure how the paizo staff or others took your "customer" vs. "fan" bit, but to me it came across as condescending. I acknowledge you appear to be trying to seem reasonable after you "backed up a bit" in the , but do encourage you to take a breath, step away for awhile and go back and read your posts from your own profile.
JJ, thank you for both the quality of the works you publish and your patience with this very eclectic board community.
SR, I'm frankly surprised you didn't lock or remove this thread.
I'm very glad that Paizo staff is more focused on creating additional content than answering board posts as quickly as many posters seem to demand. I'm thankful ('tis the season, right? :) that they are likely taking the time to collaborate with each other about why they feel certain rulings and rules exist before deciding if a response is warrented or will only generate even more issues & possible nerd rage™.
-TimD
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I'm NOT FINE with folks belittling and insulting other posters on these boards when they compliment us,Thank you for enduring the occasional verbally abusive tiradeBut if they aren't complimenting us, feel free to take passive-aggressive swipes at them or gang up on them. We will nod and encourage such behavior from the background, again.
If you don't believe the Devs have endured "the occasional verbally abusive tirade" while returning a level of respect and consideration they don't often receive in return, you aren't reading the same threads I am. The title of this thread alone implies that Paizo is somehow inherently dysfunctional, and that they're failing by not instantly addressing the corner concerns of a vocal minority. Even after coming in an providing answers or acknowledgement for the issues brought up, instead of being met with thanks and understanding they are presented with further criticism.
Awhile back there was a thread regarding one of the class features of the Duelist prestige class. I believed the wording said one thing, others believed it meant something else. I reached out to one of the Paizo staff whom I knew had been in the game as long as the PRC itself had and asked him for clarification. His response was that my reading was technically correct, but that they actually meant to support the other interpretation, which he posted personally in the thread, as well as letting everyone know they would get a FAQ out addressing that.You know how awesome that is? Find another company that services a customer base as widespread as Paizo's where a member of the senior staff will not only directly respond to an inquiry, but take the time to elucidate upon the issue. You won't find many. You're even less likely to find one where said staff members will endure the level of vitriol that occasionally finds its way into these forums and keep coming back for more.
There've been many threads where I thought AD was right on and provided excellent insight. I said so. I felt he was out of line with some of his responses to JJ here. I said that too.
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AD, I normally like many of your posts, but please take a step back and ask yourself how your comment about fan mail and your responses to JJ are constructive. Also, I'm not sure how the paizo staff or others took your "customer" vs. "fan" bit, but to me it came across as condescending. I acknowledge you appear to be trying to seem reasonable after you "backed up a bit" in the , but do encourage you to take a breath, step away for awhile and go back and read your posts from your own profile.-TimD
Tim, I've long ago learned it's impossible to defend oneself on messageboards. I maintain that my posts were respectful with the possible exception of the fan mail comment which I truly intended to be humorous. I find it interesting that you criticize me but not JJ, whose posts were, I felt, at least as condescending and disrespectful as you claim mine were. I fully admit that I tend to respond in kind, no matter who is addressing me.
But c'est la Interwebz.
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I actually thought the whole thing was fairly civil, but maybe I didn't read as attentively as others. At least more civil than I expected it to be.
I actually thought the whole thing was fairly civil, but maybe I didn't read as attentively as others. At least more civil than I expected it to be.
To some people Cheapy, there is no way to civilly disagree or offer criticism. The bare fact that you dare to disagree with someone or something is proof of incivility.
I get that all the time.
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Awhile back there was a thread regarding one of the class features of the Duelist prestige class. I believed the wording said one thing, others believed it meant something else. I reached out to one of the Paizo staff whom I knew had been in the game as long as the PRC itself had and asked him for clarification. His response was that my reading was technically correct, but that they actually meant to support the other interpretation, which he posted personally in the thread, as well as letting everyone know they would get a FAQ out addressing that.
You know how awesome that is?
I remember it very well! I thought it was absolutely awesome! Even more so because SKR came down firmly on the side of sanity!
I'll never forget how great it felt to have a designer of the game back me up! : )
Since this forum is my first and only one, do all game companies interact with their community this way, or is it just Paizo?
@Ssalarn; how did you get SKR to appear in that thread? Was it a flat 1% chance for him to appear when you say his name, like for archdevils in the 1st ed AD&D Monster Manual? Was it like saying, 'Hastur' three times? Summon dev is a very useful (Sp)!
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Summon Dev is actually an Extraordinary ability, as it cannot be blocked by an anti-magic field.
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Awhile back there was a thread regarding one of the class features of the Duelist prestige class. I believed the wording said one thing, others believed it meant something else. I reached out to one of the Paizo staff whom I knew had been in the game as long as the PRC itself had and asked him for clarification. His response was that my reading was technically correct, but that they actually meant to support the other interpretation, which he posted personally in the thread, as well as letting everyone know they would get a FAQ out addressing that.
You know how awesome that is?I remember it very well! I thought it was absolutely awesome! Even more so because SKR came down firmly on the side of sanity!
I'll never forget how great it felt to have a designer of the game back me up! : )
Since this forum is my first and only one, do all game companies interact with their community this way, or is it just Paizo?
@Ssalarn; how did you get SKR to appear in that thread? Was it a flat 1% chance for him to appear when you say his name, like for archdevils in the 1st ed AD&D Monster Manual? Was it like saying, 'Hastur' three times? Summon dev is a very useful (Sp)!
There's a ritual involving the sacrifice of a stack of pizzas and a case of Mountain Dew in front of an altar with an image of a tall, skinny, bald guy with a beard followed by the burning of a print copy of a version of the game where you could stack Improved Crit and Keen.
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Fix the magic item system and I'll forgive a whole lot of feat/ability synergy issues. :)And for the record... I for one don't think the magic system is broken.Just in case you misread, I didn't say the "magic system" is broken.
I said the "magic ITEM system" is broken.
I like the magic system. That's why I play Pathfinder instead of 4e. But magic items and how they are created, priced, factored into the game and create the famous "Christmas Tree" effect are frequent targets of criticism, and not just from me.
Fair enough. I totally missed the word "item" in that system.
One thing that I think COULD be fixed with our current magic item system is to decouple its balance issues from the gold piece. Using item price as the method of balancing power cause far too many problems with magic item design and placement in adventures.
As for the "christmas tree" effect... that's something we HAVE tried to address. In part by limiting the number of item slots where things like ability boosts go. It's not yet been solved, and I'm not sure how much of it NEEDS to be solved since the idea of a high level character decked out with magic items actually kind of appeals to me anyway.
I think the best way to fix this type of concern is to do a new "adventures" style book like "Low Magic Adventures" (but with a different, catchier title) that presents detailed rules on how to take the Pathfinder rules from their current core assumptions and then build games and settings that model, say, a world like Westros or even real-world medieval or ancient world settings. And a companion volume called something like "High Magic Adventures" which would help you create settings like you see in Eberron or Harry Potter or Final Fantasy would be cool as well.
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I for one want the Animals of Golarian book to stop being pushed back. My poor riding dog is going to be long dead by the time it comes out.
For the record... that's not the one that I was talking about. Animal Archive went to the printer many many weeks ago. The product I'm working on now is one of the modules—that line has been hit the hardest by the "delay bug."
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I don't know how much work goes into creating FAQ's, but I've often thought that if more FAQ's came out more frequently, most of these issues would be resolved. I completely understand not having it done up in print quickly, but surely the FAQ's don't take nearly as long?
The Rules Questions messageboard has a plethora of issues that need to be looked at, and if you're playing Pathfinder Society, having a FAQ rather than a messageboard response is paramount anyway.
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Fix the magic item system and I'll forgive a whole lot of feat/ability synergy issues. :)And for the record... I for one don't think the magic system is broken.Just in case you misread, I didn't say the "magic system" is broken.
I said the "magic ITEM system" is broken.
I like the magic system. That's why I play Pathfinder instead of 4e. But magic items and how they are created, priced, factored into the game and create the famous "Christmas Tree" effect are frequent targets of criticism, and not just from me.
Fair enough. I totally missed the word "item" in that system.
One thing that I think COULD be fixed with our current magic item system is to decouple its balance issues from the gold piece. Using item price as the method of balancing power cause far too many problems with magic item design and placement in adventures.
As for the "christmas tree" effect... that's something we HAVE tried to address. In part by limiting the number of item slots where things like ability boosts go. It's not yet been solved, and I'm not sure how much of it NEEDS to be solved since the idea of a high level character decked out with magic items actually kind of appeals to me anyway.
I think the best way to fix this type of concern is to do a new "adventures" style book like "Low Magic Adventures" (but with a different, catchier title) that presents detailed rules on how to take the Pathfinder rules from their current core assumptions and then build games and settings that model, say, a world like Westros or even real-world medieval or ancient world settings. And a companion volume called something like "High Magic Adventures" which would help you create settings like you see in Eberron or Harry Potter or Final Fantasy would be cool as well.
That..... would be awesome. It would also make it easier for players to bring Dark Sun style gritty campaigns or (as you mentioned and one of my personal favorites) Eberron style High magic campaigns easily to the table without painstaking conversion of products from older editions or careful juggling of critter selection to try and rebalance CR's for parties with non-standard (both high and low) amounts of loot and magic goodies. It gets hard to keep things balanced when the party is either 8th level with maybe a +1 sword or 3rd level with a +2 magic sword and armor, goggles of see invisibility and all the other goodies. I would buy both of those books. Seriously.
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Sean's, Chris's, Ross's, and my appearances in this thread occurred because it's pretty much part of our jobs to keep a presence on these boards. We are expected to spend a part of each day on the boards, answering questions, chatting with folks, and so on. And so we keep an eye on the boards, and when a thread's really popular or busy, it stays near the top of a forum longer and thus has a much better chance that someone here at Paizo will notice and stop by. Especially if the thread title is as provocative as "Paizo needs to get their house in order." ;-P
Well... in Ross's case, he's also expected to help make the boards actually work and stay civil and all that. I assume he has some sort of internet uplink to his brain so that he can scan all of the threads in a blink of an eye or something like that. :-P
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That..... would be awesome. It would also make it easier for players to bring Dark Sun style gritty campaigns or (as you mentioned and one of my personal favorites) Eberron style High magic campaigns easily to the table without painstaking conversion of products from older editions or careful juggling of critter selection to try and rebalance CR's for parties with non-standard (both high and low) amounts of loot and magic goodies. It gets hard to keep things balanced when the party is either 8th level with maybe a +1 sword or 3rd level with a +2 magic sword and armor, goggles of see invisibility and all the other goodies. I would buy both of those books. Seriously.
In a case where we'd want to support a Dark Sun like setting... I wouldn't do so with "Low Magic Adventures" or "High Magic Adventures." Dark Sun was neither of these, really—it was a weird case of "Your characters start with less gear but are more powerful."
If we were to do a book to support a Dark Sun type setting, that book would be called "Post-Apocalyptic Adventures." Which is, as it turns out, one of the books I've been pushing for us to do for a long, long time...
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PostMonster General
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Well... in Ross's case, he's also expected to help make the boards actually work and stay civil and all that. I assume he has some sort of internet uplink to his brain so that he can scan all of the threads in a blink of an eye or something like that. :-P
The first rule of Sekrit Admin Control Panel is...
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Creative Director
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If we were to do a book to support a Dark Sun type setting, that book would be called "Post-Apocalyptic Adventures." Which is, as it turns out, one of the books I've been pushing for us to do for a long, long time...You have my permission to start this project immediately.
Heh... I've got about 80,000 words written already for a post-apocalyptic game, in fact. It's a science-fiction/fantasy hybrid though (sort of Fallout meets the Dark Tower meets Lovecraft), not just fantasy (like Dark Sun).
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Heh... I've got about 80,000 words written already for a post-apocalyptic game, in fact. It's a science-fiction/fantasy hybrid though (sort of Fallout meets the Dark Tower meets Lovecraft), not just fantasy (like Dark Sun).If we were to do a book to support a Dark Sun type setting, that book would be called "Post-Apocalyptic Adventures." Which is, as it turns out, one of the books I've been pushing for us to do for a long, long time...You have my permission to start this project immediately.
I like all the words you just said compiled in the order you said them.
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I hate to mention 4e....
They have an optional mechanic that is meant for games with low magic, and it was recommended for use in it's version of Dark Sun. Basically, as characters gain levels, they get increasing inherent bonuses to exactly the same things as your basic magic items do: attack, damage, AC, saves.
There have been non-fantasy d20 games where an increasing AC was part of each class's level progression table.
I'd also like to see an expansion of the Masterwork quality in games like this; some swords could get a bonus to attack, others a bonus to damage, others an extended crit range or multiplier, etc. depending on the skill-set of the weaponsmith. Armour/shields would be treated similarly. The very best would have two or more bonuses, and would be characteristic of famous smiths. 'Is that a Fabergé blade? I've never seen it's equal!'
Feel free to send me the royalties....! : )
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*** It's a science-fiction/fantasy hybrid though (sort of Fallout meets the Dark Tower meets Lovecraft), not just fantasy (like Dark Sun).
That may be the single greatest sentence I've ever seen written. I volunteer to playtest this starting as soon as you can get something to me.
Just make sure any Cthulu-esque creatures have a good deflection bonus to AC, I have both hopes and fears related to the words "Dark Tower meets Lovecraft".|
Creative Director
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*** It's a science-fiction/fantasy hybrid though (sort of Fallout meets the Dark Tower meets Lovecraft), not just fantasy (like Dark Sun).That may be the single greatest sentence I've ever seen written. I volunteer to playtest this starting as soon as you can get something to me.
Just make sure any Cthulu-esque creatures have a good deflection bonus to AC, I have both hopes and fears related to the words "Dark Tower meets Lovecraft".
Although Unspeakable Futures (which is the name of this unpublished, long in design game by me) is where the first draft of the gunslinger class came from... the gunslinger touch AC issue that causes problems in Pathfinder doesn't cause problems in Unspeakable Futures, because guns work a little differently, and because the game is built from the ground up with the assumption that most PCs will be using ranged weapons, not melee weapons. It's sort of a reverse of the general expectation of D&D/Pathfinder in that regard.
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Although Unspeakable Futures (which is the name of this unpublished, long in design game by me) is where the first draft of the gunslinger class came from... the gunslinger touch AC issue that causes problems in Pathfinder doesn't cause problems in Unspeakable Futures, because guns work a little differently, and because the game is built from the ground up with the assumption that most PCs will be using ranged weapons, not melee weapons. It's sort of a reverse of the general expectation of D&D/Pathfinder in that regard.*** It's a science-fiction/fantasy hybrid though (sort of Fallout meets the Dark Tower meets Lovecraft), not just fantasy (like Dark Sun).That may be the single greatest sentence I've ever seen written. I volunteer to playtest this starting as soon as you can get something to me.
Just make sure any Cthulu-esque creatures have a good deflection bonus to AC, I have both hopes and fears related to the words "Dark Tower meets Lovecraft".
That actually makes quite a bit of sense. Since Unspeakable Futures is where the Gunslinger was derived from, is the Grit system or something similar fairly prevalent? And if so is it class-based or something all characters would use? Does the system cling pretty closely to the traditional class layout with some setting specific options, or does it diverge into its own classes? I could see a lot of cool options here.
....You should probably get this thing running so I can give you my money.
Heh... I've got about 80,000 words written already for a post-apocalyptic game, in fact. It's a science-fiction/fantasy hybrid though (sort of Fallout meets the Dark Tower meets Lovecraft), not just fantasy (like Dark Sun).If we were to do a book to support a Dark Sun type setting, that book would be called "Post-Apocalyptic Adventures." Which is, as it turns out, one of the books I've been pushing for us to do for a long, long time...You have my permission to start this project immediately.
...I want it. That sounds AMAZING
Heh... I've got about 80,000 words written already for a post-apocalyptic game, in fact. It's a science-fiction/fantasy hybrid though (sort of Fallout meets the Dark Tower meets Lovecraft), not just fantasy (like Dark Sun).If we were to do a book to support a Dark Sun type setting, that book would be called "Post-Apocalyptic Adventures." Which is, as it turns out, one of the books I've been pushing for us to do for a long, long time...You have my permission to start this project immediately.
I like where this thread is heading now. :)
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I like where this thread is heading now. :)Heh... I've got about 80,000 words written already for a post-apocalyptic game, in fact. It's a science-fiction/fantasy hybrid though (sort of Fallout meets the Dark Tower meets Lovecraft), not just fantasy (like Dark Sun).If we were to do a book to support a Dark Sun type setting, that book would be called "Post-Apocalyptic Adventures." Which is, as it turns out, one of the books I've been pushing for us to do for a long, long time...You have my permission to start this project immediately.
I know, right?
Hey AD, I just wanted to say I'm sorry if you felt I was attacking you at any point personally in this thread. I do recognize some of the same issues you see, but I believe too much time is spent piling on the staff in these forums, without being accompanied by an appropriate amount of appreciation. I think you and I generally have pretty similar views about most things in this hobby based on other threads.
For example, we both agree that James needs to get this book off the ground and into our hands.