Hi guys
I was hoping someone could clarify something for me
The CoT players guide says no worship is outright forbidden in Cheliax
The Cheliax companion says worship of any demon, devil other than Asmodeus or god of chaos is forbidden under threat of torture and execution
How have other people played this? Do I take the players guide interpretation as it came later?
And if I was to go on the Cheliax companion how have people defined 'god of chaos'? Is it simply any Chaotically aligned deity (seems like a stupid question but being chaotically aligned and a "god of chaos" strikes me as something that could be interpreted differently)
Thanks for any advice
I think the goal is to make Cheliax feel oppressive. In my game, I disallowed any god that had anything to do with Chaos.
Torag, Iomedae, Shelyn, and Asmodeus were the big ones, especially Asmodeus.
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This is Cheliax. They've probably changed the rules five or six times since the House of Thrune took over. And it's not at all impossible that the law books say different things in different places, too, so someone can charge someone else with a crime no matter what they do....
Cheliax's arwarwithAndor.Cheliax has always been at war with-- wait, thevileminions of CaydenCailian have changed the banners! Fix them! Cheliax is at war with Taldor. Cheliax has always been at war with Taldor!
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In the fiction segment of CoT #1 they specifically had a horrible public execution of a man in part because he consorted with demons; without consorting with demons, he would have been merely killed or imprisoned (for murders). I believe the story was set in Egorian while Varian Jeggare was alive, so I don't know if that implies the fiction was old or not.
In CoT #2, the Trials of Larazod are based in part on the idea that Larazod is accused of consorting with demons, and he in turn accuses his accuser. Thus, the trials are set to prove his innocence. Now, the play isn't meant to be literally realistic -- a dev said that it was written with the same willful ignorance that an action movie is written, so the play could serve as a bloodsport -- but it should at least be steeped with credible justification for the characters' motives.
I don't recall that chaos-gods were particularly banned, but I do remember that it was said (In the Westcrown article in CoT #1?) that Iomedae was ... tolerated. Possibly in part because the country worshiped Aroden at one time, and Iomedae inherited a strong number of his followers after his death -- meaning a strong pressure for Thrune to tolerate her worship long enough to weaken her influence. Just speculating.
Iomedaeans in Westcrown tend to emphasize law, tradition and justice over righteousness and good -- obviously, any crusader that started deconstructing corrupt laws in Cheliax would be targeted and overwhelmed by the government or by one of the Hellknights.
On the other hand, I can certainly believe the idea that chaos gods may be banned -- as long as 'chaos gods' do not include all gods that are Chaotic. Desna is big in Westcrown (and probably Cheliax) as a matter of fact -- in part because Chelish Desnans make wonderful beautiful distractions for the decadent nobility. However, I can easily believe that deities that have no respect for laws, or that outright fight authority (such as Cayden Cailean or Milani's portfolios of Freedom and Liberation) would be banned by the state because they encroach too much on the country's rigid authority and dependence on slaves.
I don't know that I heard anything about other archdevils, but I could believe that Asmodeus would tolerate worship of them since they're Lawful and theoretically subordinate to him, especially in light of the idea that even Iomedae is tolerated.
Shelyn does seem to get a nod as acceptable as well.
So does Abadar.
Our take on this is that all religions in Cheliax must acknowledge the supremacy of Asmodeus. The only religions not tolerated even if they will do this are demon cults, Far Realms cults, and the cult of Rovagug (the "chaos gods" in the original quote). In general there are branches of all of the other common religions that have been willing to bow to Asmodei, but individual worshippers and temples may or may not be--I can easily see renegade Andoran cults of Iomedae which don't play along, even though Iomedae is a major Chelish religion.
One of the things that I find fascinating about Cheliax is the entanglement of religions like the worship of Iomedae and Sarenrae in the Asmodean culture. They are not fully corrupted, but they are certainly compromised. The only major Good power who is not is Erastil, and I don't think that Erastil-worship is at all common in urban Cheliax--it may be stronger among slaves and in rural areas.
Temples have to be registered with the Church of Asmodeus. This has been a major plot point in our CoT game as the Wiscrani Church requires you to file a floorplan when you register the temple, and one of the PCs is in cahoots with the High Priest. The floorplans have been quite useful. There are, however, a lot of unregistered temples in Westcrown, most of them transitory and easily disassembled if necessary. (The PCs had one for a while but they are too famous to risk it now.)
I think that the statement that you can't worship other devils is contradicted in a lot of places and must be taken as erroneous--you can, as long as you acknowledge the supremacy of Asmodeus. But the laws governing what "acknowledge" means are slippery and it can certainly be used against you. You may need to maintain a facade that you are "really" worshiping Asmodei through his loyal servants.
One of our PCs is a priest of the conjoint god that the Aol is sacred to. (I don't know his name in the modules--we have a different name there.) We are currently looking into how to get this cult recognized by the local Church, which requires making a strong argument that it's not a demon cult, despite appearances. My suspicion is that the PCs are going to get into trouble--they'll succeed in Westcrown and then Egorian will use it against them. But on a meta-game level we want that kind of trouble for this campaign, as we're continuing it beyond the end of CoT toward a probable showdown with Thrune.
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I imagine Caydenites and especially followers of Milani aren't allowed. While there's no info on an explicit ban, both Milani's whole shtick is revolution against tyranny, and Cayden Cailean has a very similar creed, especially in regards to slavery, something Cheliax openly promotes and practices as part of the natural order of things. Even if such cleric's AREN'T seditionists, they'd probably be run out of town if they flashed their holy symbols openly, because the locals would immediately assume they're there to stir up trouble.
I am trying to build up a Cleric PC for this AP and so far the most problematic point has been how to choose a Deity and motivations able to properly engage with Cheliax setting and the adventure plots.
After reading the Guide and Cheliax companion it seems there is little room to play with a Deity other than Asmodeus. Choosing a different Deity seems very rebeldish.
My current idea is going with a legal neutral Cleric of Asmodeus, who's focus is on enlarging the power of Westcrown, and acknowledges this can only be achieved by order.
At the same time, the neutrality in the good/evil axis will give him some care about the destiny of Westcrown people, which I think would justify an Asmodeus Cleric to engage into some parts of the adventure.
I hope this combination of desire to maintain the order, hold power and at the same time care about the city can work with the AP and mingle good with a potential party.
Those of you who have played or read the AP, what are your thoughts on how this base idea can work out?
What are the problems you can anticipate and what are your ideas on how to work them out?
Without too many spoilers, are there any payoffs for choosing one deity of another, in terms of what’s actually written in the AP?
It seems like Iomedae and Shelyn both would be given some degree of a pass by the powers that be, and would fit thematically, but if y’all were DMing this game and you knew you had a player searching through her cleric options: which one would make you secretly run your hands in anticipation of the way it’ll seem like the AP was written just for her?
