Yeah, I know wizards have always being jerks to Rogues everyhere...
But comparing to wizards (and to a lesser degree, sorcerers) is not really fair. Full casters are full casters. They have never been the best example of game balance.
My Rogue/Ninja fusion helped a lot, though. It comes with one extra good save (of the player's choice), much better Rogue Talents and the abilities of both classes.
Yeah, I know wizards have always being jerks to Rogues everyhere...
But comparing to wizards (and to a lesser degree, sorcerers) is not really fair. Full casters are full casters. They have never been the best example of game balance.
My Rogue/Ninja fusion helped a lot, though. It comes with one extra good save (of the player's choice), much better Rogue Talents and the abilities of both classes.
Hmm, Rogue/Ninja Fusion
Trapfinding and Poison use at 1st level
Evasion, and Ki pool at 2nd level
Trap Sense and No trace at 3rd level
Uncanny Dodge at 4th level
Light Steps at 6th level
Improved Uncanny Dodge at 8th level
Hidden Master at 20th level.
good fortitude saves.
to add to that, i would make vanishing trick a standard Ki power available to 2nd level rogues that automatically scales to greater invisibility (invisible blade) at 10th level.
i would throw in the unseen seer's guarded mind ability (immunity to divination spells) at 12th level
but i would rename the Ki pool, the Pizzazz pool, the Cunning pool, or the Stunt pool and base it off intelligence (instead of charisma) and as long as you had 1 Ki point remaining, you would receive an insight bonus to will saves equal to your intelligence bonus.
Here is the party that went through the Age of Wyrms up to level 20. They did hit level 23 eventually but that's not important for this.
Grivas
Male Dwarf Barbarian 2 Rogue (Scout) 18
CG Medium Humanoid (dwarf)
Init +6; Senses darkvision; Perception +25
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 42, touch 20, flat-footed 37 (+11 armor, +6 shield, +4 Dex, +5 natural, +5 deflection, +1 dodge)
hp 326 (2d12+18d8+140)
Fort +23, Ref +24 (+6 bonus vs. traps.), Will +16; +2 vs. poison, spells, and spell-like abilities
Defensive Abilities defensive training, evasion, improved evasion, trap sense, uncanny dodge
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 40 ft.
Melee +1 Returning Silversheen Throwing axe +21/+16/+11 (1d6+6/x2) and
. . +5 Bane (Undead), Furious, Holy, Menacing Silversheen Dwarven urgosh +23/+18/+13 (1d8+10+2d6 vs. Evil+2d6 vs. Undead/1d6+10/x3)
Special Attacks rage (13 rounds/day), rage powers (swift foot [+5 ft]), scout's charge, skirmisher, sneak attack +9d6
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 20, Dex 22, Con 24, Int 16, Wis 13, Cha 8
Base Atk +15; CMB +20; CMD 40 (40 vs. Bull Rush, 40 vs. Trip)
Feats Combat Reflexes (7 AoO/round), Critical Focus, Dodge, Double Slice, Greater Two-weapon Fighting, Improved Two-weapon Fighting, Iron Will, Skill Focus (Disable Device), Two-weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Dwarven urgosh)
Traits Armor Expert, Vagabond Child (urban) (Disable Device)
Skills Acrobatics +34 (+38 jump), Appraise +16 (+18 to determine the price of nonmagic items with precious metals or gemstones), Bluff +0, Climb +28, Diplomacy +11, Disable Device +52, Disguise +0, Heal +2, Intimidate +0, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +25, Knowledge (religion) +24, Perception +25 (+34 to locate traps., +27 to notice unusual stonework, such as traps and hidden doors in stone walls or floors.), Sense Motive +25, Sleight of Hand +22, Stealth +44, Survival +10, Swim +11, Use Magic Device +19
Languages Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Treant
SQ bane (undead), fortification (moderate), greed, hardy, hatred, menacing, rogue talents (assault leader [1/day], bleeding attack +9, fast stealth, hunter's surprise [1/day], improved evasion, offensive defense, opportunist [1/day], resiliency [1/day], acro, dis div, perc, stea, diplo), slow and steady, stability, stonecunning +2, trapfinding +9
Other Gear +5 Fortification (moderate), Shadow, greater Mithr, +5 Buckler, +1 Returning Silversheen Throwing axe (2), +5 Bane (Undead), Furious, Holy, Menacing Silversh, Amulet of natural armor +5, Belt of physical perfection +6, Boots of striding and springing, Cloak of resistance +5, Goggles of minute seeing, Handy haversack (empty), Headband of vast intelligence +2Knowledge (religio, Ioun stone (pale green prism (cracked, saves), Ring of protection +5, Stone of good luck (Luckstone), Thieves' tools, masterwork, 28769 GP
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
+1 Returning Silversheen Throwing axe - 0/2
Assault Leader (1/day) (Ex) - 0/1
Hunter's Surprise (1/day) (Ex) - 0/1
Opportunist (1/day) (Ex) - 0/1
Rage (13 rounds/day) (Ex) - 0/13
Resiliency (1/day) (Ex) - 0/1
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Armor Expert -1 Armor check penalty.
Assault Leader (1/day) (Ex) 1/day when you miss an attack, allow an ally also flanking that target an immediate attack.
Bane (Undead) +2 & +2d6 damage vs chosen type
Bleeding Attack +9 (Ex) Sneak attacks also deal 9 bleed damage/round.
Combat Reflexes (7 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Critical Focus +4 to confirm critical hits.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Defensive Training +4 Gain a dodge bonus to AC vs monsters of the Giant subtype.
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Fast Stealth (Ex) You may move at full speed while using the Stealth skill without penalty.
Fortification (moderate) 50% chance to ignore critical hit/sneak attack.
Greed +2 to Appraise checks to determine the price of nonmagical goods that contain precious metals or gemstones.
Hardy +2 Gain a racial bonus to saves vs Poison, Spells and Spell-Like effects.
Hatred +1 Gain a racial bonus to attacks vs Goblinoids/Orcs.
Hunter's Surprise (1/day) (Ex) 1/day, all attacks against a chosen target are sneak attacks.
Improved Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead. If you fail you take half damage.
Menacing Increase bonus for flanking adjacent creature by +2.
Offensive Defense (Ex) Sneak attack grants you +1 AC vs. the target.
Opportunist (1/day) (Ex) A foe who takes a melee hit from another provokes an AoO from you.
Rage (13 rounds/day) (Ex) +4 Str, +4 Con, +2 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Resiliency (1/day) (Ex) When brought to 0 Hp or less, gain 18 temporary Hp for 1 min.
Scout's Charge (Ex) Charge attacks deal sneak attack damage.
Skill Mastery (Acro, Dis Div, Perc, Stea, Diplo) You can always take 10 with (3 + int modifier) skills.
Skirmisher (Ex) 1st attack after moving 10+' (same round) deals sneak attack damage.
Slow and Steady Your base speed is never modified by encumbrance.
Sneak Attack +9d6 +9d6 damage if you flank your target or your target is flat-footed.
Stability +4 Gain bonus to CMD vs bull rush/trip while standing on ground.
Stonecunning +2 +2 bonus to Perception vs unusual stonework. Free check within 10 feet.
Swift Foot (+5 ft) (Ex) While raging, gain the listed enhancement bonus to speed.
Trap Sense +6 (Ex) +6 bonus on reflex saves and AC against traps.
Trapfinding +9 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex) Retain Dex bonus to AC when flat-footed.
Rose
Male Human Paladin (Oath against Undeath, Oath against the Wyrm, Warrior of the Holy Light) 20
LG Large Humanoid (human)
Init +10; Senses Perception +27
Aura power of light (60', +2, restore 2d4, daylight, re
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 37, touch 20, flat-footed 32 (+12 armor, +4 Dex, -1 size, +5 natural, +6 deflection, +1 dodge)
hp 340 (20d10+120)
Fort +28, Ref +21, Will +26
DR 10/evil; Immune aura of righteousness, compulsion, fear, disease; SR 25
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee Holy avenger +35/+30/+25/+20 (2d6+52/19-20/x2) and
. . Sun blade (1/day) +32/+27/+22 (2d8+49/19-20/x2)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks shining light (10d6) (3/day) (dc 26), smite evil (7/day)
Spell-Like Abilities Detect Evil (At will)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 24, Dex 19, Con 20, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 23
Base Atk +20; CMB +28; CMD 49
Feats Dodge, Double Slice, Extra Lay on Hands, Greater Mercy, Greater Two-weapon Fighting, Improved Initiative, Improved Two-weapon Fighting, Sin Seer, Toughness +20, Two-weapon Fighting, Two-weapon Rend
Traits Conspiracy Hunter (Perception), Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +1 (-3 jump), Climb +4, Diplomacy +29, Escape Artist +1, Fly -1, Knowledge (religion) +23, Perception +27, Ride +1, Stealth -3, Swim +4
Languages Common
SQ aura of courage, aura of good, aura of life, breath evasion, detect undead, divine bond, divine bonds (weapon [4/day]), dragon-slaying strike (dc 26), ghost touch aura, lay on hands (10d6) (23/day), mercies (mercy [cursed], mercy [paralyzed], mercy [poisoned], mercy [shaken]), superior channeler, variant channeling (undeath variant channeling)
Combat Gear Boots of speed (10 rounds/day), Scabbard of keen edges, Scabbard of keen edges, Strand of prayer beads (greater); Other Gear Celestial plate armor, Holy avenger, Sun blade (1/day), Amulet of natural armor +5, Belt of physical perfection +6, Cloak of resistance +5, Handy haversack (1 @ 3591.7 lbs), Headband of mental prowess (Wis & Cha +6), Ring of protection +5, 179585 GP
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Bead of Healing (Strand of prayer beads (greater)) - 0/1
Bead of Karma (Strand of prayer beads (greater)) - 0/1
Bead of Summoning (Strand of prayer beads (greater)) - 0/1
Bead of Wind Walking (Strand of prayer beads (greater)) - 0/1
Boots of speed (10 rounds/day) - 0/10
Divine Bond (Weapon +6) (20 minutes) (4/day) (Sp) - 0/4
Keen Edge (3/day) - 0/3
Keen Edge (3/day) - 0/3
Lay on Hands (10d6) (23/day) (Su) - 0/23
Shining Light (10d6) (3/day) (DC 26) (Su) - 0/3
Smite Evil (7/day) (Su) - 0/7
Sun blade (1/day) - 0/1
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Aura of Courage +4 (10' radius) (Su) You are immune to Fear. Allies within aura gain a morale bonus to saves vs Fear.
Aura of Good (Ex) The paladin has an Aura of Good with power equal to her class level.
Aura of Life +4/+2 (10' radius) (Su) Gain a bonus on saves vs negative levels, allies in range gain lesser bonus.
Aura of Righteousness +4 (10' radius) (Su) You are immune to compulsion. Allies within aura gain a morale bonus to saves vs compulsion.
Boots of speed (10 rounds/day) Affected by haste
Breath Evasion (Su) At 4th level, a paladin with this oath gains evasion, but only against the breath weapons of creatures with the dragon type. This ability replaces channel positive energy.
Damage Reduction (10/evil) You have Damage Reduction against all except Evil attacks.
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Detect Undead (Su) This ability works like the standard paladin ability to detect evil, except as detect undead instead of detect evil. This ability replaces detect evil.
Divine Bond (Sp) This works like the paladin's normal divine bond ability, except as follows. If the paladin's bond is with a weapon, she cannot use that ability to add the brilliant energy, disruption, or merciful weapon properties, but she can
Divine Bond (Weapon +6) (20 minutes) (4/day) (Sp) Weapon shines with light and gains enhancement bonuses or chosen properties.
Dragon-Slaying Strike (DC 26) (Su) At 20th level, an oathbound paladin becomes a conduit of holy power. Her DR increases to 10/evil. Whenever she uses smite evil and successfully strikes a dragon, the dragon is also subject to a single-target holy word, using her paladin level
Ghost Touch Aura (Su) At 3rd level, the paladin's armor is treated as if it had the ghost touch armor property. This does not affect the cost or effect of any other abilities of the armor. At 9th level, this ability also applies to the paladin's shield. This abilit
Greater Mercy Lay on hands heals extra hit points if the target doesn't need a mercy
Holy avenger Perform area dispel magic as standard action at your paladin level.
Immune to Compulsion You are immune to compulsion.
Immune to Fear (Ex) You are immune to all fear effects.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Lay on Hands (10d6) (23/day) (Su) You can heal 10d6 damage, 23/day
Mercy (Cursed) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes curses, as per the remove curse spell at a caster level of your Paladin level.
Mercy (Paralyzed) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes the paralyzed condition.
Mercy (Poisoned) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also neutralizes poisons, as per the neutralize poison spell at a caster level of your Paladin level.
Mercy (Shaken) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes the shaken condition.
Power of Light (60', +2, restore 2d4, daylight, resist energy 20, 50% fortification) (Su) At 4th level, a warrior of the holy light learns to use the power of her faith to bolster her defenses and aid her allies. This class feature replaces the paladin’s spells class feature. A warrior of the holy light does not gain any spells or spellca
Shining Light (10d6) (3/day) (DC 26) (Su) 30' burst deals 10d6 damage and blinds evil creatures, heals 10d6 to good creatures and grants them +2 to ability checks, attack rolls, saving throws and skill checks for 1 rd.
Sin Seer Gain the ability to detect evil
Smite Evil (7/day) (Su) +6 to hit, +20 to damage, +6 deflection bonus to AC when used.
Spell Resistance (25) You have Spell Resistance.
Sun blade (1/day) +4 Enh bon vs evil, double damage and x4 crit vs undead & Neg Ener Plane creatures.
Superior Channeler (Su) At 11th level, a paladin can channel positive energy to harm undead by expending a single usage of her lay on hands ability instead of two. This ability replaces aura of justice.
Two-weapon Rend You deal an additional 1d10+(STR*1.5) if you hit with both of your weapons.
Undeath Variant Channeling Enhanced healing for Undead
Tra'xex
Male Drow Arcane Archer 6 Ranger 5 Shadow Scout 5 Sorcerer 4
CG Medium Humanoid (elf)
Init +20; Senses darkvision, low-light vision; Perception +27
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 35, touch 24, flat-footed 26 (+8 armor, +9 Dex, +3 natural, +5 deflection)
hp 274 (11d10+5d8+4d6+100)
Fort +20 (+4 vs. hot or cold environments and to resist damage from suffocation), Ref +25, Will +17; +2 vs. enchantments, +5 resistance bonus vs. sight and light-based hazards or attacks
Immune sleep; Resist elven immunities; SR 26
Weakness light blindness
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 Frost Scimitar +24/+19/+14/+9 (1d6+8+1d6 cold/18-20/x2)
Ranged +5 Speed Composite longbow (Str +5) +26/+26/+21/+16/+11 (1d8+20/x3)
Special Attacks enhance arrows (distance), enhance arrows (elemental)electricity, enhance arrows (magic), favored enemies (aberrations +2, undead +6, vermin +2), shadowstrike (12/day)
Spell-Like Abilities Dancing Lights (1/day), Darkness (1/day), Faerie Fire (1/day), Imbue Arrow (At will), Nondetection (3/day) (DC 24), Phase Arrow (1/day), Seeker Arrow (1/day)
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 13):
6 (5/day) Chain Lightning (DC 25), Hellfire Ray
5 (8/day) Shadow Evocation (DC 24), Teleport, Fickle Winds
4 (8/day) Stoneskin, Invisibility, Greater, Enervation, False Life, Greater
3 (8/day) Displacement, Haste, Dispel Magic, Fly
2 (8/day) Acid Arrow, Mirror Image, Arrow Eruption, Protection from Arrows, Ricochet Shot
1 (9/day) Shield, Enlarge Person (DC 20), Ray of Enfeeblement (DC 20), Ray of Enfeeblement (DC 20), Magic Missile, Gravity Bow
0 (at will) Resistance, Acid Splash, Open/Close (DC 19), Flare (DC 19), Read Magic, Mage Hand, Detect Magic, Prestidigitation (DC 19), Message
Ranger Spells Prepared (CL 2):
1 (2/day) Aspect of the Falcon, Feather Step (DC 13)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 24, Dex 28, Con 20, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 28
Base Atk +16; CMB +23; CMD 47
Feats Arcane Armor Training, Deadly Aim -5/+10, Endurance, Eschew Materials, Improved Initiative, Improved Precise Shot, Improved Vital Strike, Manyshot, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Skill Focus (Stealth), Vital Strike, Weapon Focus (Longbow)
Traits Reactionary, Scholar of the Great Beyond (Knowledge [planes])
Skills Acrobatics +34, Bluff +18 (+20 vs. aberrations, +24 vs. undead, +20 vs. vermin), Climb +11, Concentration: Sorcerer +22, Craft (bows) +24, Diplomacy +25, Escape Artist +13, Fly +27, Handle Animal +13, Heal +6, Intimidate +13, Knowledge (arcana) +20 (+22 vs. aberrations, +26 vs. undead, +22 vs. vermin), Knowledge (nature) +20 (+22 vs. aberrations, +26 vs. undead, +22 vs. vermin), Knowledge (planes) +30 (+32 vs. aberrations, +36 vs. undead, +32 vs. vermin), Perception +27 (+29 vs. aberrations, +33 vs. undead, +29 vs. vermin, +29 while in underground terrain), Sense Motive +3 (+5 vs. aberrations, +9 vs. undead, +5 vs. vermin), Spellcraft +23, Stealth +43 (+45 while in underground terrain), Survival +8 (+10 vs. aberrations, +14 vs. undead, +10 vs. vermin, +10 while in underground terrain, +10 to track), Swim +7 (+11 to resist nonlethal damage from exhaustion)
Languages Draconic, Drow Sign Language, Elven, Undercommon
SQ arcane armor training, bloodlines (shadow), combat styles (archery), fast stealth, favored enemy, favored terrain (underground +2), hunter's bonds (companions), hunter’s bond, insightful casting, insightful deception, legacy of shadow, poison use, shadow mask, shadow stalker, shadow step (9 rounds/day), shadow step, track, veil of darkness (12/day) (dc 21), wild empathy
Combat Gear Hand of glory, Wand of Burning Hands, Wand of Darkvision, Wand of Restoration, Wand of Scorching Ray; Other Gear +1 Frost Scimitar, +5 Speed Composite longbow (Str +5), Adamantine Arrow, durable (50), Blunt (50), Masterwork Cold Iron Arrow, durable (50), Silversheen Arrow, durable (50), Belt of physical perfection +6, Boots of elvenkind, Bracers of armor +8, Cloak of resistance +5, Cloak of the bat, Efficient quiver (empty), Figurine (obsidian steed) (1/week), Glarecutter goggles, Handy haversack (1 @ 5913.8 lbs), Headband of alluring charisma +6, Ioun stone (dusty rose prism, cracked), Ring of chameleon power, Ring of evasion, Ring of feather falling, Ring of protection +5, Artisan's tools, masterworkCraft (bows), 295690 GP
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Adamantine Arrow, durable - 0/50
Blunt - 0/50
Dancing Lights (1/day) (Sp) - 0/1
Darkness (1/day) (Sp) - 0/1
Daylight (1/day) - 0/1
Disguise Self (At will) - 0/0
Faerie Fire (1/day) (Sp) - 0/1
Feather Fall (Constant) - 0/0
Figurine (obsidian steed) (1/week) - 0/1
Masterwork Cold Iron Arrow, durable - 0/50
Nondetection (3/day) (DC 24) (Sp) - 0/3
Phase Arrow (1/day) (Sp) - 0/1
See Invisibility (1/day) - 0/1
Seeker Arrow (1/day) (Sp) - 0/1
Shadow Step (9 rounds/day) (Ex) - 0/9
Shadowstrike (12/day) (Sp) - 0/12
Silversheen Arrow, durable - 0/50
Veil of Darkness (12/day) (DC 21) (Su) - 0/12
Wand of Burning Hands - 0/22
Wand of Darkvision - 0/20
Wand of Restoration - 0/30
Wand of Scorching Ray - 0/25
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Arcane Armor Training Swift action: -10% arcane spell failure due to armor.
Arcane Armor Training (Ex) At 2nd level, a shadow scout gains Arcane Armor Training as a bonus feat.
Cloak of the bat In darkness or dim light, can fly as spell, or polymorph yourself into a bat.
Dancing Lights (1/day) (Sp) Cast Dancing Lights once per day.
Darkness (1/day) (Sp) Cast Darkness once per day.
Darkvision (150 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Deadly Aim -5/+10 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Drow Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Elven Immunities +2 save bonus vs Enchantments.
Endurance +4 to a variety of skill checks. Sleep in L/M armor with no fatigue.
Enhance Arrows (distance) (Su) Every nonmagical arrow you fire has the distance special ability.
Enhance Arrows (Electricity) (Su) Every nonmagical arrow you fire adds elemental energy.
Enhance Arrows (magic) (Su) Every nonmagical arrow you fire has a +1 enhancement bonus.
Eschew Materials Cast spells without materials, if component cost is 1 gp or less.
Faerie Fire (1/day) (Sp) Cast Faerie Fire once per day.
Fast Stealth (Ex) At 2nd level, a shadow scout can move at full speed using Stealth without penalty.
Favored Enemy (Aberrations +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Aberrations).
Favored Enemy (Ex) At 5th level, a shadow scout may select an additional favored enemy. In addition, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by +2.
Favored Enemy (Undead +6) (Ex) +6 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Undead).
Favored Enemy (Vermin +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Vermin).
Favored Terrain (Underground +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Terrain (Underground).
Hunter’s Bond (Ex) If the shadow scout has an animal companion from another class, he adds half his shadow scout level to his effective level for determining the abilities of his animal companion. If the scout does not have a hunter’s bond from another class, this clas
Hunting Companions (2 rounds) (Ex) Grant half favored enemy bonus to allies in 30' as move action.
Imbue Arrow (At will) (Sp) You can cast an area effect spell on an arrow before firing it.
Improved Precise Shot Ignore AC bonuses and miss chance from anything less than total cover/concealment.
Insightful Casting (Su) A 3rd level, a shadow scout adds his favored enemy bonus on damage dealt by spells with a casting time of “Instantaneous.” Each applicable creature in the spell’s area of effect takes this additional damage.
Insightful Deception (Su) At 5th level, any time the shadow scout uses illusion magic against a favored enemy, the scout adds 1/2 his favored enemy bonus to the Will save DC to disbelieve the illusion.
Legacy of Shadow (Ex) If a shadow scout has sorcerer levels with the shadow bloodline the levels from both classes stack for the purposes of determining his bloodline powers and bonus spells known. If the shadow scout does not have levels of sorcerer or is a sorcerer of a
Light Blindness (Ex) Blinded for 1r in bright light, dazzled as long as they remain in it.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Manyshot You can shoot two arrows as the first attack of a full attack action.
Nondetection (3/day) (DC 24) (Sp) A shadow scout gains the ability to cast nondetection as a spell-like ability, usable 3/day. The caster level is equal to the character’s level. The save DC is Charisma-based
Phase Arrow (1/day) (Sp) Once per day, ignore cover, concealment and armor modifiers.
Point Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Poison Use (Ex) You do not risk poisoning yourself accidentally while poisoning a weapon.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into melee.
Rapid Shot You get an extra attack with ranged weapons. Each attack is at -2.
Ring of evasion No damage if you succeed on a Reflex save for half damage.
Ring of feather falling Feather fall activates if you fall more than 5 ft.
Seeker Arrow (1/day) (Sp) Once per day, ignore cover and concealment modifiers.
Shadow Gain +4 Stealth for 1d4r after casting a [darkness] or [shadow] spell.
Shadow Mask (Ex) At 3rd level, you gain the ability to manipulate raw shadow. As a move action, a shadow sorcerer can alter the shadows around him to conceal his presence. The effect lasts as long as he maintains concentration. Shadow mask provides a +4 circumstance
Shadow Stalker (Ex) At 3rd level, a shadow scout adds his favored enemy bonus on Stealth checks when used against creatures of the selected type.
Shadow Step (9 rounds/day) (Ex) At 9th level, as long as the sorcerer is in an area of shadowy illumination, he can step into and move through the Plane of Shadow as a standard action. Every round spent moving though the Plane of Shadow, the sorcerer moves up to triple his normal s
Shadow Step (Su) At 4th level, a shadow scout gains the shadow step power of the Shadow bloodline.
Shadowstrike (12/day) (Sp) Melee touch attack deals 1d4+2 non-lethal damage & dazzles targets w/o Low-Light or Darkvision for 1 minute.
Spell Resistance (26) You have Spell Resistance.
Track +2 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
Veil of Darkness (12/day) (DC 21) (Su) As a standard action, you can conjure a 10 foot square plane of shadow within 30 ft. This veil lasts for one round and obscures vision, providing 20% concealment in both directions. The veil does not hinder movement, but a creature passing through th
Vital Strike Standard action: x2 weapon damage dice.
Wild Empathy +14 (Ex) Improve the atttitude of an animal, as if using Diplomacy.
Varg
Male Half-Orc Inquisitor 20
LN Medium Humanoid (orc)
Init +13; Senses darkvision, scent; Perception +29
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 44, touch 23, flat-footed 39 (+12 armor, +6 shield, +5 Dex, +3 natural, +4 deflection)
hp 280 (20d8+120); judgement of sacred healing 7
Fort +22, Ref +18, Will +23
Defensive Abilities judgement of sacred protection +5 / +10, stalwart; DR judgement of sacred resiliency 5chaos; Resist judgement of sacred purity +5 / +10, judgement of sacred resistance 14fire
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee +1 Silversheen Dagger +19/+14/+9 (1d4+16/19-20/x2) and
. . +4 Icy burst, Keen, Speed Silversheen Greataxe +22/+22/+17/+12 (1d12+26+1d6 cold/18-20/x3+2d10 cold)
Ranged +1 Seeking Composite longbow (Str +6) +21/+16/+11 (1d8+7/x3)
Special Attacks exploit weakness, greater bane (+2 / 4d6) (26 rounds/day), holy lance for 10 rounds (4/day), judgement of sacred justice +5 / +10, judgement of sacred piercing +7, judgement of sacred smiting (magic, law, adamantin, judgement of sacred destruction +9, true judgement (dc 26)
Spell-Like Abilities Detect Alignment (At will), Discern Lies (20 rounds/day), Touch of Good (9/day)
Inquisitor Spells Known (CL 20):
6 (6/day) Overwhelming Presence (DC 22), Undeath to Death (DC 22), Circle of Death (DC 22), Harm (DC 22), Heal
5 (6/day) Righteous Might, Disrupting Weapon, Unwilling Shield (DC 21), Flame Strike (DC 21), Commune
4 (6/day) Stoneskin, Invisibility, Greater, Cure Critical Wounds, Freedom of Movement, Battlemind Link (DC 20), Sanctify Armor (DC 20)
3 (6/day) Heroism, Searing Light, Cure Serious Wounds, Remove Disease, Coordinated Effort, Terrible Remorse (DC 19)
2 (7/day) Restoration, Lesser, Weapon of Awe (DC 18), Cure Moderate Wounds, Silence (DC 18), See Invisibility, Invisibility
1 (7/day) Divine Favor, Hide from Undead (DC 17), Detect Undead, Bless, True Strike, Cure Light Wounds
0 (at will) Resistance, Disrupt Undead, Bleed (DC 16), Detect Poison, Stabilize, Detect Magic
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 24, Dex 20, Con 20, Int 18, Wis 23, Cha 8
Base Atk +15; CMB +22; CMD 45
Feats Coordinated Defense, Critical Focus, Escape Route, Eschew Materials, Extended Bane, Improved Critical (Greataxe), Keen Scent, Lightning Reflexes, Lookout, Outflank, Paired Opportunists, Power Attack -4/+8, Spell Penetration, Swap Places, Toughness +20, Weapon Focus (Greataxe)
Traits Reactionary, Unbreakable Hate
Skills Acrobatics +6 (+2 jump), Appraise +8, Bluff +6, Climb +10, Concentration: Inquisitor +28, Diplomacy +6, Escape Artist +2, Fly +2, Heal +13, Intimidate +11, Knowledge (arcana) +27 (+33 to identify the abilities and weaknesses of creatures.), Knowledge (dungeoneering) +27 (+33 to identify the abilities and weaknesses of creatures.), Knowledge (local) +24 (+30 to identify the abilities and weaknesses of creatures.), Knowledge (nature) +27 (+33 to identify the abilities and weaknesses of creatures.), Knowledge (planes) +27 (+33 to identify the abilities and weaknesses of creatures.), Knowledge (religion) +27 (+33 to identify the abilities and weaknesses of creatures.), Perception +29, Ride +2, Sense Motive +28, Spellcraft +22, Stealth +15, Survival +6 (+16 to track), Swim +10, Use Magic Device +19 Modifiers monster lore
Languages Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Orc, Treant
SQ domains (good), orc ferocity (1/day), slayer, solo tactics, teamwork feat (change 6/day), judgement (7/day), track
Combat Gear Wand of Halt Undead; Other Gear Celestial plate armor, +5 Dragonhide Buckler, +1 Seeking Composite longbow (Str +6), +1 Silversheen Dagger, +4 Icy burst, Keen, Speed Silversheen Greataxe, Amulet of natural armor +3, Belt of physical perfection +6, Cloak of resistance +5, Handy haversack (empty), Headband of mental prowess (Int & Wis +6)Knowledge, Ring of protection +4, 297998 GP
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
+1 Silversheen Dagger - 0/1
Discern Lies (20 rounds/day) (Sp) - 0/20
Greater Bane (+2 / 4d6) (26 rounds/day) (Su) - 0/26
Holy Lance for 10 rounds (4/day) (Su) - 0/4
Orc Ferocity (1/day) - 0/1
Teamwork Feat (change 6/day) - 0/6
Third Judgement (7/day) (Su) - 0/7
Touch of Good (9/day) (Sp) - 0/9
Wand of Halt Undead - 0/20
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Coordinated Defense +2 CMD if you are adjacent to an ally with this feat.
Critical Focus +4 to confirm critical hits.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Detect Alignment (At will) (Sp) Detect chaos, evil, good, or law at will.
Discern Lies (20 rounds/day) (Sp) Discern Lies at will
Escape Route You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when moving through spaces adjacent to allies
Eschew Materials Cast spells without materials, if component cost is 1 gp or less.
Exploit Weakness (Ex) With a crit, ignore DR, suppress Regen, and take advantage of vulnerability.
Greater Bane (+2 / 4d6) (26 rounds/day) (Su) Make the weapon you are holding a bane weapon.
Holy Lance for 10 rounds (4/day) (Su) A melee weapon you are holding becomes holy
Inquisitor Domain (Good) Granted Powers: You have pledged your life and soul to goodness and purity.
Judgement of Sacred Healing 7 (Su) Fast Healing
Judgement of Sacred Justice +5 / +10 (Su) Attack bonus
Judgement of Sacred Piercing +7 (Su) Concentration and vs. SR bonus
Judgement of Sacred Protection +5 / +10 (Su) AC bonus
Judgement of Sacred Purity +5 / +10 (Su) Save bonus
Judgement of Sacred Resiliency 5 (Chaos) (Su) DR/magic
Judgement of Sacred Resistance 14 (Fire) (Su) Energy Resistances
Judgement of Sacred Smiting (Magic, Law, Adamantine) (Su) DR bypass
Lookout Act in the surprise rouns if an adjacent ally with this feat can act in the surprise round.
Monster Lore +6 (Ex) +6 to Knowledge checks when identifying the weaknessess of creatures.
Orc Ferocity (1/day) If brought below 0 Hp, can act as though disabled for 1 rd.
Outflank Flanking bonus increases to +4 if the other flanker also has this feat, and ally gets an AoO if you score a critical hit against the target.
Paired Opportunists +4 to hit for AoOs if you and an ally with this feat both threaten the target.
Power Attack -4/+8 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.
Slayer (Ex) Selected Judgement is at +5 effective levels
Slayer Judgement of Sacred Destruction +9 (Su) Weapon Damage bonus.
Solo Tactics (Ex) Count Teamwork feats as if your allies had the same ones.
Stalwart (Ex) If you succeed at a Fort or Will save for reduced effect, you take none instead.
Swap Places You can trade places with an ally with this feat during your movement.
Teamwork Feat (change 6/day) Swap your most recent Teamwork feat for another
Third Judgement (7/day) (Su) Variable bonuses increase as the combat continues.
Touch of Good (9/day) (Sp) Grant +10 to skill checks, ability checks and saving throws for 1r.
Track +10 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
True Judgement (DC 26) (Su) At 20th level, an inquisitor can call true judgment down upon a foe during combat.
Whenever an inquisitor uses her judgment ability, the inquisitor can invoke true judgment on a foe as a swift action. Once declared, the inquisitor can make a s
Variel
Male Halfling Wizard 20
CG Small Humanoid (halfling)
Init +8; Senses Perception +27
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 24, touch 19, flat-footed 18 (+5 armor, +6 Dex, +1 size, +2 deflection)
hp 240 (20d6+120)
Fort +16, Ref +17, Will +18; +2 vs. fear
SR 18
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee +1 Returning Silversheen Dagger +11/+6 (1d3/19-20/x2)
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 20):
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 8, Dex 22, Con 20, Int 26, Wis 12, Cha 12
Base Atk +10; CMB +8; CMD 26
Feats Craft Staff, Craft Wand, Elemental Spell (Cold), Focused Spell, Greater Spell Penetration, Heighten Spell, Improved Familiar, Intensified Spell, Opposition Research, Scribe Scroll, Selective Spell, Spell Focus (Evocation), Spell Penetration, Staff-Like Wand, Toughness +20
Traits Desperate Focus, Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +8 (+4 jump), Appraise +12, Climb +1, Concentration: Wizard +30, Fly +31, Knowledge (arcana) +31, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +31, Knowledge (engineering) +30, Knowledge (geography) +30, Knowledge (history) +20, Knowledge (local) +19, Knowledge (nature) +31, Knowledge (nobility) +13, Knowledge (planes) +31, Knowledge (religion) +20, Linguistics +24, Perception +27, Sense Motive +3, Spellcraft +31, Stealth +10
Languages Abyssal, Aklo, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Common, Dark Folk, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Ignan, Infernal, Orc, Protean, Sphinx, Sylvan, Terran, Undercommon
SQ arcane bonds (the worm, protean, voidworm), arcane familiar nearby, deliver touch spells through familiar, elemental wall (20 rounds/day), empathic link with familiar, fearless, force missile (11/day), intense spells +10, opposition schools (illusion), scry on familiar (1/day), share spells with familiar, speak with familiar, specialized schools (evocation)
Combat Gear Hand of glory, Intensified metamagic rod (greater) (3/day), Lingering metamagic rod (greater) (3/day), Maximize metamagic rod (greater) (3/day), Ring of counterspells, Ring of spell storing (major), Robe of the archmagi (white), Wand of Dispel Magic, Wand of Enervation, Wand of Magic Missile (CL 5), Wand of Mirror Image, Wand of Rope Trick, Wand of Shield, Wand of Stoneskin; Other Gear +1 Returning Silversheen Dagger, Belt of physical might (Dex & Con +6), Cloak of displacement, major, Handy haversack (1 @ 4167.76 lbs), Headband of vast intelligence +6Knowledge (planes), Ioun stone (orange prism), Ring of sustenance, Slippers of spider climbing (10 minutes/day), 208388 GP
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
+1 Returning Silversheen Dagger - 0/1
Daylight (1/day) - 0/1
Displacement (15 rounds/day) - 0/15
Elemental Wall (20 rounds/day) (Sp) - 0/20
Force Missile (11/day) (Sp) - 0/11
Intensified metamagic rod (greater) (3/day) - 0/3
Lingering metamagic rod (greater) (3/day) - 0/3
Maximize metamagic rod (greater) (3/day) - 0/3
Scry on Familiar (1/day) (Sp) - 0/1
See Invisibility (1/day) - 0/1
Slippers of spider climbing (10 minutes/day) - 0/10
Wand of Dispel Magic - 0/48
Wand of Enervation - 0/10
Wand of Magic Missile (CL 5) - 0/50
Wand of Mirror Image - 0/28
Wand of Rope Trick - 0/48
Wand of Shield - 0/22
Wand of Stoneskin - 0/17
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Arcane Familiar Nearby You gain the Alertness feat while your familiar is within arm's reach.
Cloak of displacement, major Attacks on you have 50% miss chance.
Deliver Touch Spells Through Familiar (Su) Your familiar can deliver touch spells for you.
Elemental Spell (Cold) You can cast a spell with half or all its damage type replaced with this feat's damage type.
Elemental Wall (20 rounds/day) (Sp) Create wall of one chosen energy type, otherwise as wall of fire.
Empathic Link with Familiar (Su) You have an empathic link with your Arcane Familiar.
Evocation Evokers revel in the raw power of magic, and can use it to create and destroy with shocking ease.
Fearless +2 racial bonus vs Fear saves.
Focused Spell You can cast a spell that gains +2 DC against one of its multiple targets.
Force Missile (11/day) (Sp) Magic Missile hits for 1d4+10
Heighten Spell Increases spell level to effective level desired.
Illusion You must spend 2 slots to cast spells from the Illusion school.
Intense Spells +10 (Su) Evocation spells deal listed extra damage, and two rolls vs. SR.
Intensified metamagic rod (greater) (3/day) The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are intensified as though using the Intensified Spell feat.
Metamagic rods hold the essence of a metamagic feat, allowing the user to apply metamagic effects to spells as they are cast. This does not change the spell slot of the altered spell. All the rods described here are use-activated (but casting spells in a threatened area still draws an attack of opportunity). A caster may only use one metamagic rod on any given spell, but it is permissible to combine a rod with metamagic feats possessed by the rod’s wielder. In this case, only the feats possessed by the wielder adjust the spell slot of the spell being cast.
Possession of a metamagic rod does not confer the associated feat on the owner, only the ability to use the given feat a specified number of times per day. A sorcerer still must take a full-round action when using a metamagic rod, just as if using a metamagic feat he possesses (except for quicken metamagic rods, which can be used as a swift action).
Lesser and Greater Metamagic Rods: Normal metamagic rods can be used with spells of 6th level or lower. Lesser rods can be used with spells of 3rd level or lower, while greater rods can be used with spells of 9th level or lower.
Construction
Requirements Craft Rod, Intensified Spell; Cost 12,250 gp
Intensified Spell You can cast a spell that can exceed its normal damage die cap by 5 (if you have the caster level to reach beyond that cap).
Lingering metamagic rod (greater) (3/day) The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that linger for 1 round as though using the Lingering Spell feat.
Metamagic rods hold the essence of a metamagic feat, allowing the user to apply metamagic effects to spells as they are cast. This does not change the spell slot of the altered spell. All the rods described here are use-activated (but casting spells in a threatened area still draws an attack of opportunity). A caster may only use one metamagic rod on any given spell, but it is permissible to combine a rod with metamagic feats possessed by the rod’s wielder. In this case, only the feats possessed by the wielder adjust the spell slot of the spell being cast.
Possession of a metamagic rod does not confer the associated feat on the owner, only the ability to use the given feat a specified number of times per day. A sorcerer still must take a full-round action when using a metamagic rod, just as if using a metamagic feat he possesses (except for quicken metamagic rods, which can be used as a swift action).
Lesser and Greater Metamagic Rods: Normal metamagic rods can be used with spells of 6th level or lower. Lesser rods can be used with spells of 3rd level or lower, while greater rods can be used with spells of 9th level or lower.
Construction
Requirements Craft Rod, Lingering Spell; Cost 12,250 gp
Maximize metamagic rod (greater) (3/day) Metamagic rods hold the essence of a metamagic feat, allowing the user to apply metamagic effects to spells (but not spell like abilities) as they are cast. This does not change the spell slot of the altered spell. All the rods described here are use-activated (but casting spells in a threatened area still draws an attack of opportunity). A caster may only use one metamagic rod on any given spell, but it is permissible to combine a rod with metamagic feats possessed by the rod's wielder. In this case, only the feats possessed by the wielder adjust the spell slot of the spell being cast.
Possession of a metamagic rod does not confer the associated feat on the owner, only the ability to use the given feat a specified number of times per day. A sorcerer still must take a full-round action when using a metamagic rod, just as if using a metamagic feat he possesses (except for quicken metamagic rods, which can be used as a swift action).
The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are maximized as though using the Maximize Spell feat. Greater metamagic rods can be used with spells of 9th level or lower.
Construction
Requirements: Craft Rod, Maximize Spell feat; Cost 60,750 gp
Ring of counterspells Counters this spell when it's cast on you.
Ring of spell storing (major) A major ring of spell storing contains up to 10 levels of spells (either divine or arcane, or even a mix of both spell types) that the wearer can cast. Each spell has a caster level equal to the minimum level needed to cast that spell. The user need not provide any material components or focus to cast the spell, and there is no arcane spell failure chance for wearing armor (because the ring wearer need not gesture). The activation time for the ring is the same as the casting time for the relevant spell, with a minimum of 1 standard action.
For a randomly generated ring, treat it as a scroll to determine what spells are stored in it. If you roll a spell that would put the ring over the ten-level limit, ignore that roll; the ring has no more spells in it.
A spellcaster can cast any spells into the ring, so long as the total spell levels do not add up to more than 10. Metamagic versions of spells take up storage space equal to their spell level modified by the metamagic feat. A spellcaster can use a scroll to put a spell into the ring of spell storing.
The ring magically imparts to the wearer the names of all spells currently stored within it.
Construction
Requirements: Forge Ring, imbue with spell ability; Cost 100,000 gp
Ring of sustenance Immune to hunger and thirst, and only sleep two hours a night.
Scry on Familiar (1/day) (Sp) You can scry on your familiar, as the spell.
Selective Spell You can cast a spell that does not affect some targets within its area.
Share Spells with Familiar Can cast spells with a target of "You" on the familiar with a range of touch.
Speak With Familiar (Ex) You can communicate verbally with your familiar.
Spell Focus (Evocation) Spells from one school of magic have +1 to their save DC.
Spell Resistance (18) You have Spell Resistance.
Staff-Like Wand Your research has unlocked a new power in conjunction with using a wand. Similar to using a magic staff, you use your own Intelligence score and relevant feats to set the DC for saves against spells you cast from a wand, and you can use your caster l
--------------------
The Worm
Male Protean, Voidworm
CN Tiny Outsider (chaotic, extraplanar, protean, shapechanger)
Init +3; Senses blindsense, darkvision; Perception +25
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 25, touch 15, flat-footed 22 (+3 Dex, +2 size, +10 natural)
hp 120 (3d10); fast healing 2
Fort +6, Ref +9, Will +11
Defensive Abilities amorphous anatomy, freedom of movement; Immune acid; Resist electricity 10, sonic 10; SR 25
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft., flight (50 feet, perfect)
Melee Bite (Protean, Voidworm) +15 (1d3-2/x2) and
. . Tail slap (Protean, Voidworm) +10 (1d3-2/x2)
Space 2.5 ft.; Reach 0 ft.
Special Attacks confusion (dc 12)
Spell-Like Abilities Blur (self only) (3/day), Commune (cl 12th, 6 questions) (1/week), Dancing Lights (At will), Detect Law (Constant), Ghost Sound (At will), Obscuring Mist (3/day), Prestidigitation (At will)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 7, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 15, Wis 8, Cha 13
Base Atk +10; CMB +11; CMD 19 (can't be Tripped)
Feats Skill Focus (Perception), Weapon Finesse
Skills Acrobatics +9 (+5 jump), Appraise +3, Bluff +7, Escape Artist +9, Fly +38, Heal +2, Knowledge (arcana) +25, Linguistics +15, Perception +25, Spellcraft +22, Stealth +17, Survival +1 Modifiers acrobatics (jump) -4
Languages Common, Draconic, Halfling, Protean
SQ change shape (2 forms, both of which must be tiny , improved evasion
Other Gear You have no money!
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Blur (self only) (3/day) (Sp) - 0/3
Commune (cl 12th, 6 questions) (1/week) (Sp) - 0/1
Dancing Lights (At will) (Sp) - 0/0
Detect Law (Constant) (Sp) - 0/0
Ghost Sound (At will) (Sp) - 0/0
Obscuring Mist (3/day) (Sp) - 0/3
Prestidigitation (At will) (Sp) - 0/0
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Acrobatics (Jump) -4 (Ex) You gain the specified bonus to acrobatics checks made to jump.
Amorphous Anatomy (Ex) 50% chance to avoid criticals, immune to polymorph (unless willing), recover from physical blindness or deafness after 1r.
Blindsense (30 feet) (Ex) Sense things and creatures without seeing them.
Change Shape (2 forms, both of which must be Tiny animals; beast shape II) (Su) You can change your form.
Confusion (DC 12) (Su) A creature struck by a voidworm's tail slap must make a DC 12 Will save or become confused for 1 round. This is a mind-affecting effect. The save DC is Charisma-based.
Damage Resistance, Electricity (10) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Damage Resistance, Sonic (10) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Sonic attacks.
Darkvision (30 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Fast Healing 2 (Ex) You heal damage every round if you have > 1 Hp.
Flight (50 feet, Perfect) You can fly!
Freedom of Movement (Su) A protean has continuous freedom of movement, as per the spell.
Immunity to Acid You are immune to acid damage.
Improved Evasion (Ex) No damage on successful reflex save; half on failed save.
Spell Resistance (25) You have Spell Resistance.
Xavier
Male Human Fighter (Shielded Fighter) 20
LG Large Humanoid (human)
Init +4; Senses Perception +20
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 44, touch 20, flat-footed 42 (+14 armor, +9 shield, +1 Dex, -1 size, +5 natural, +5 deflection, +1 dodge)
hp 340 (20d10+140)
Fort +21, Ref +14, Will +8 (+5 vs. fear)
Defensive Abilities active defense, bravery +5, shield guard, shield ward +4; DR 5/—, shield mastery; Resist shield ward +4
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee Heavy Shield Bash +31/+26/+21/+16 (2d6+30/x2) and
. . +1 Returning Trident +23/+18/+13/+8 (2d6+22/x2) and
. . +4 Keen Adamantine Longsword +26/+21/+16/+11 (2d6+25/15-20/x2)
Ranged Masterwork Composite longbow (Str +3) +24/+19/+14/+9 (1d8+3/x3)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks shield buffet (swift action), shield fighter +4
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 28, Dex 19, Con 22, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 14
Base Atk +20; CMB +30; CMD 51
Feats Bashing Finish, Combat Reflexes (5 AoO/round), Critical Focus, Dodge, Double Slice, Greater Shield Focus, Greater Two-weapon Fighting, Greater Vital Strike, Improved Critical (Longsword), Improved Shield Bash, Improved Two-weapon Fighting, Improved Vital Strike, Iron Will, Power Attack -6/+12, Shield Focus, Shield Master, Shield Slam, Shield Specialization (Heavy Shield), Skill Focus (Intimidate), Toughness +20, Two-weapon Fighting, Vital Strike
Traits Armor Expert, Conspiracy Hunter (Diplomacy)
Skills Acrobatics -1 (-5 jump), Climb +4, Diplomacy +26, Escape Artist -1, Fly -3, Intimidate +31, Knowledge (nobility) +7, Perception +20, Ride -1, Sense Motive +9, Stealth -5, Swim +11
Languages Common
SQ fortification (heavy)
Other Gear +5 Fortification (heavy) Adamantine Full plate, +5 Bashing Heavy steel shield, +1 Returning Trident, +4 Keen Adamantine Longsword, Arrow, durable (50), Masterwork Composite longbow (Str +3), Amulet of natural armor +5, Belt of physical perfection +6, Cloak of displacement, minor, Portable hole (1 @ 7545 lbs), Ring of protection +5, 377250 GP
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
+1 Returning Trident - 0/1
Arrow, durable - 0/50
Blur (Constant) - 0/0
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Active Defense +5 (Ex) Swift action to share dodge bonus with adjacent ally or 1/2 bonus with all.
Armor Expert -1 Armor check penalty.
Bashing Finish Whenever you score a critical hit with a melee weapon, you can shield bash the same target as a free action.
Bravery +5 (Ex) +5 to Will save vs. Fear
Combat Reflexes (5 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Critical Focus +4 to confirm critical hits.
Damage Reduction (5/-) You have Damage Reduction against all attacks.
Fortification (heavy) 75% chance to ignore critical hit/sneak attack.
Improved Shield Bash You still get your shield bonus while using Shield Bash.
Power Attack -6/+12 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Shield Buffet (swift action) (Ex) Combat Maneuver check to give foe -2 penalty to AC and attack vs you.
Shield Fighter +4 (Ex) +4 to hit and damage with shields, may alternate weapons during a full attack rather than 2-weapon.
Shield Focus +1 Shield AC
Shield Guard (Ex) Designate 1 or more squares. Enemies in those squares cannot flank you or count towards flanking others.
Shield Master No off-hand penalties for shield bashes, add a shield's enhancement bonus to attack rolls.
Shield Mastery (Ex) DR 5/- while using a shield.
Shield Slam Shield Bash attack gives a free bull rush on a hit.
Shield Specialization (Heavy Shield) You have mastered the use of one type of shield.
Shield Ward +4 (Ex) Evasion, add Shield AC to touch AC and Ref saves.
Vital Strike Standard action: x2 weapon damage dice.
Zadoki
Male Half-Orc Fighter (Weapon Master) 20
LN Large Humanoid (orc)
Init +7; Senses darkvision; Perception +25
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 37, touch 15, flat-footed 36 (+14 armor, +4 shield, +1 Dex, -1 size, +4 natural, +5 deflection)
hp 340 (20d10+140)
Fort +23, Ref +14, Will +14; +5 bonus vs. effects targetting a Elven curve blade held by you.
DR 3/—
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee Heavy Shield Bash +22/+17/+12/+7 (1d6+21/x2) and
. . +5 Axiomatic, Holy, Keen Adamantine Elven curve blade +34/+29/+24/+19 (2d8+45+2d6 vs. Evil+2d6 vs. Chaotic/12-20/x3) and
. . Bite (Tusked) +17 (1d6+10/x2)
Ranged +1 Composite longbow (Str +5) +23/+18/+13/+8 (1d8+6/x3)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks critical specialist: elven curve blade, deadly critical: elven curve blade (3/day), reliable strike: elven curve blade (4/day), unstoppable strike: elven curve blade, weapon training +5: elven curve blade
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 28, Dex 16, Con 22, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 11
Base Atk +20; CMB +30 (+34 Sundering); CMD 46 (51 vs. Disarm, 53 vs. Sunder)
Feats Bleeding Critical, Critical Focus, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Elven curve blade), Greater Penetrating Strike, Greater Sunder, Greater Vital Strike, Greater Weapon Focus (Elven curve blade), Greater Weapon Specialization (Elven curve blade), Improved Critical (Elven curve blade), Improved Initiative, Improved Sunder, Improved Vital Strike, Iron Will, Penetrating Strike, Power Attack -6/+12, Quick Draw, Sundering Strike, Toughness +20, Vital Strike, Weapon Focus (Elven curve blade), Weapon Specialization (Elven curve blade)
Traits Conspiracy Hunter (Perception), Tusked
Skills Acrobatics +2, Climb +13, Escape Artist -3, Fly -5, Intimidate +25, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +18, Knowledge (engineering) +18, Perception +25, Ride -3, Stealth -7, Swim +11
Languages Common, Elven, Orc
SQ animated, axiomatic, orc ferocity (1/day), weapon guard +5: elven curve blade, weapon masteryelven curve blade
Other Gear +5 Adamantine Full plate, +2 Animated Heavy steel shield, +1 Composite longbow (Str +5), +5 Axiomatic, Holy, Keen Adamantine Elven curve bl, Arrow, durable (50), Amulet of natural armor +4, Belt of physical perfection +6, Boots of striding and springing, Cloak of resistance +5, Handy haversack (1 @ 4956 lbs), Manual of gainful exercise +4, Ring of protection +5, 247800 GP
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Arrow, durable - 0/50
Deadly Critical: Elven curve blade (3/day) (Ex) - 0/3
Orc Ferocity (1/day) - 0/1
Reliable Strike: Elven curve blade (4/day) (Ex) - 0/4
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Animated As move action, release shield to defend wielder on its own for 4 rounds.
Axiomatic Law-aligned and +2d6 damage vs Chaotic creatures.
Bleeding Critical Critical Hits deal 2d6 bleed damage.
Critical Focus +4 to confirm critical hits.
Critical Specialist: Elven curve blade (Ex) Increase the save DC of any critical hit effects by +4 for your chosen weapon.
Damage Reduction (3/-) You have Damage Reduction against all attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Deadly Critical: Elven curve blade (3/day) (Ex) Increase the critical damage multiplier of your chosen weapon
Greater Penetrating Strike Ignore up to 10 points of DR/? or 5 points of DR/–.
Greater Sunder When destroying an item, extra damage is transferred to the wielder.
Improved Sunder You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when sundering.
Orc Ferocity (1/day) If brought below 0 Hp, can act as though disabled for 1 rd.
Penetrating Strike Ignore up to 5 points of DR/?.
Power Attack -6/+12 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Quick Draw Draw weapon as a free action (or move if hidden weapon). Throw at full rate of attacks.
Reliable Strike: Elven curve blade (4/day) (Ex) Reroll attack roll, critical confirmation, miss chance or damage roll for your chosen weapon
Sundering Strike Critical hit's confirmation roll is a Sunder maneuver check.
Unstoppable Strike: Elven curve blade (Ex) Standard action: a single attack with your chosen weapon is a touch attack that ignored DR or hardness.
Vital Strike Standard action: x2 weapon damage dice.
Weapon Guard +5: Elven curve blade (Ex) +5 CMD vs. Disarm and Sunder or other effects targeting your chosen weapon.
Weapon Mastery (Elven curve blade) (Ex) Chosen weapon has an improved critical multiplier, always confirms criticals, and cannot be disarmed.
Weapon Training +5: Elven curve blade (Ex) +5 to hit and damage with your chosen weapon.
There is some overlap with the skills. Some characters diversified more than others. No one ever felt like they didn't have something to do in or out of combat. They would go out of their way to find something to do. Even the ones with Knowledge (engineering) saw some use of that skill when it came time to use ballistas or to rebuild areas that had been devastated. My players enjoyed themselves greatly. They were able to handle most of the challenges just fine. There were some areas that were a challenge and everyone died at least once during their 23 levels.
I should mention that I allow Keen and Improved Critical to stack and that I gave everyone maximum hit points because healing was not enough in this group. This was a rough campaign. They were all 20 point buy.
None of the characters are super optimized. Some worked better than others.
|
There are a lot of fun things you can do with a fighter that really can't be done with anyone else because they just plain don't have the feats available to make it work. There's a thread up right now about whip-fighters that demonstrates that quite nicely - whips are ridiculously feat-hungry and aren't covered by the ranger's combat styles, so good luck luck using them effectively with other classes.
It would help if combat maneuvers still worked at higher levels, though.
Maybe they should make whip feats less hungry (do more). Then you wouldn't need to have more feats to use them.
Indiana Jones doesn't seem like a Fighter or high level but he has the feats.
A guy in my home campaign wanted to use a whip, so we found the scorpion whip (deals lethal damage) in some book and he made a human fighter.
Fighter - Weapons Master Archtype
1 Dodge / Power Attack / Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Whip
2 Combat Expertise
3 Mobility
4 Spring Attack
5 Whirlwind
6 Lunge
So yeah.. range of 15ft or 20ft on a whirlwind attack... He enjoyed it lol
I would have given Xavier a Cloak of Resistance instead of the Cloak of Minor Displacement to better his saves.Here is the party that went through the Age of Wyrms up to level 20. They did hit level 23 eventually but that's not important for this.
** spoiler omitted **...
They made their own choices. He wanted the miss chance more than the saving throw increase. It was a trade off and one that helped sometimes and hurt other times.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The whole summon monsters to trip traps is suspect to me
If your GM caters to the world to the PCs then pretty much any class is invalid. Like my GM told me
"The dragon/evil sorcerer is not going to avoid putting traps or make them lower difficulty just in case a group of adventurers who didn't want a trap finder comes along"
So going through "knock" every door and summoning monsters will get you nowhere when you alert everyone to your presence and traps reset.
But that's another thread
none of them can chain fear every enemy they encounter.It pains me greatly that whenever I think of a Rogue character, I keep asking myself "why not take either Sandman or Urban Ranger instead?"
Sandman has same BAB and HD, better saves, bonuses to all essential rogue-ish skills, six levels of spells, trapfinding, ton of bardic performances (although he loses out on the ever awesome Inspire Courage), the absolutely amazing ability to screw with spellcasters by stealing their spells. The trade-off is Evasion (this one admittedly hurts) less sneak attack damage and two skill points less per level (though he easily compensates for the latter with Jack of All Trades). Now that's what I call a rogue!
Urban Ranger has full BAB and better HD, better saves, only slightly less skill points, trapfinding, four levels of spells, animal companion, favored enemy, greater invisibility... not as good at social stuff as either rogue or bard, but definitely good enough at infiltration and trapfinding, and can pull his weight in a fight much better.
Rogues definitely deserve better.
I feel enlightened. Truly you have shown me the folly of my ways.
Oh wait, you didn't. You just proved a class marketed as a multitool can be spec'd into a one trick pony and do his one trick slightly better than classes that simply have better things to do than fear-locking enemies.
Still, a cool one trick pony. I'll probably use it someday as an enemy to troll my group.
|
They made their own choices. He wanted the miss chance more than the saving throw increase. It was a trade off and one that helped sometimes and hurt other times.I would have given Xavier a Cloak of Resistance instead of the Cloak of Minor Displacement to better his saves.Here is the party that went through the Age of Wyrms up to level 20. They did hit level 23 eventually but that's not important for this.
** spoiler omitted **...
Which is how it goes and no class can do it all so I'm not sure why the fighter is expected to.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Fighterious McRoguerson is getting rolled up. I will not be swayed by my fear, even if every time I open the CRB to the Fighter or Rogue section the lights go out and six voices whisper the song that ends the earth.
Man, this ain't the Necronomicon, just play a dang Rogue or Fighter already. It's okay, no one will laugh at you. And if they do, well, you have that whole end of the earth thing going for you anyway.
*Hides his Vivisectionist Character Sheet*
Which is how it goes and no class can do it so I'm not sure why the fighter is expected to.They made their own choices. He wanted the miss chance more than the saving throw increase. It was a trade off and one that helped sometimes and hurt other times.I would have given Xavier a Cloak of Resistance instead of the Cloak of Minor Displacement to better his saves.Here is the party that went through the Age of Wyrms up to level 20. They did hit level 23 eventually but that's not important for this.
** spoiler omitted **...
The group worked together. They came up with tactics outside of combat and tried to work them into combat when they could. They worked out who would go where and do what. Even with the extra hit points I gave them, they still took a beating. I don't pull punches. The enemy has no problem using their most lethal options (power attack, deadly aim, implosion, power word: kill, prismatic spray, etc.). One character was tied to a chair and coup de graced.
I didn't change the adventure. I only had the house rules I mentioned. They still found the adventure incredibly lethal and had to play smart to survive. They had to work together. They relied on their martials to take out the enemy most of the time. There were a few times when it was up to the wizard but usually better off controlling the battlefield.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
My core problem with the Fighter stems from how poorly he survived the transition from AD&D to 3.x/PF.
AD&D Fighter - Really good saves
3.x Fighter - Poor Saves
AD&D Fighter - Mobile Combatant
3.x Fighter - Tied to 5' steps
AD&D Fighter - Not horrible in the skill department if you used NWP
3.x Fighter - Bad Skill Points and Bad Class Skill List
AD&D Fighter - Leader of men (Followers at name level, etc)
3.x Fighter - Big Dumb Fighter unless you use the Leadership feat (which is problematic at the least).
Yeah 3.x Fighter can be customized with a ton of feats and still do great damage (although monster HPs have gone up dramatically as well) but I don't really care for the design choices that suggest that the primary way the fighter interacts with the world is by swinging a big killstick at it.
I think the reaction against the 3.x Fighter was one of the primary reasons why the 4e fighter was buffed so heavily. You might like or hate 4e but I don't think anyone can deny that the 4e Fighter is one of the more powerful classes. I think few people would suggest that the 3.x/PF class is one of the tier 1 classes.
Yes Pathfinder made a decent number of improvements to the fighter but their hands were kinda tied by the goal of backwards compatibility. I don't think people should feel ashamed for thinking the fighter is still somewhat inadequate and making the changes in the game necessary to support the fighter being a more dynamic class with more agency in a broader area of the game.
Keep in mind that +2 Int isn't necessarily the equivalent of +1 skill point per level due to the ability to dump int to 7 and still get a minimum of 1 skill point.
Int 7 Human Fighter with FCB for skill points still has 3 skill points per level
Int 9 Elven Fighter with FCB only has 2 skill points.
Plus -2 Con :(
Your point about the game being balanced around elite arrays is definitely relevant though. If you use a mix of CR-1, CR, and CR +1 encounters with the rare CR +2 encounter you should be able to power through most encounters with pretty suboptimal builds.
If your group has people hanging around the bleeding edge where the game turns into rocket launcher tag at higher levels then suboptimal builds are going to leave the 15 strength fighter feeling inadequate especially once planar bindings and such start showing up.
the elven fighter shouldn't try to copy the human fighter's schtick. a smart elf will either use that dexterity bonus for archery, or, they will use that intelligence bonus as a tactician or lore warden. and they wouldn't be anywhere near as likely to dump int.
Elite Array Elf Archer (slightly tweaked)
Str 13
Dex 17 (15+2)
con 12 (14-2)
int 14 (12+2)
wis 12
cha 72 feats behind it's human counterpart, but it has no speed penalty with stealth for the price of trading a useless racial trait, has either low light or darkvision, a bonus against enchantments, immunity to sleep, and free proficiency in a few exotic weapons a human was too lazy to waste a feat on. a 20 point build would increase strength and wisdom to 14, and a 25 build would have that plus a 14 constitution.
12 con? In my campaigns, that fighter would risk death with that health pool. And he only has 4 skill points per level.
I think I would rather have more health over raising int that much.
health pool?
there is this feat called toughness
and there is also this thing called favored class bonus to hit points.
and if you are worried about melee, it is less of a problem for archers. and that was a 15 point buy example.
even without applying those, PFS hit point progression would grant you 7HP per level. plenty enough to survive the standard pathfinder foes. not every fighter needs to be a man-child in a tin can with compensation issues.
and if you truly wanted, you could build a tactician archer. and still be viable.
the reason optimization numbers have become skewed is because for some reason, it is assumed the martial guy has to solo a CR=APL foe in one round. when such a guy was designed to be faced by 4 opponents, not one. and i realized, that killing the big bad evil guy in one turn isn't too fun.
i'm not saying you should play a gimp, but there is a point where excessive optimization becomes redundant. when your archer can hit a balor on a 2 or better and kill it (more than negative con score) with the minimum damage of it's attacks. there is really no more need to maximize your damage.
and i am fairly glad Weekly William's group isn't perfectly optimal. we still kill stuff fairly well, due to our many martially inclined PCs, but our less minmaxed builds allow us to consider tactics that most wouldn't think of due to their focus on excessive DPR.
in fact, the group of 10, isn't fighting over the +5 keen falchion of speed, no, we are fighting over who gets the last potion of cure moderate wounds off the baddies. and while martial PCs are popular, so are martial hybrids, so we get a lot of melee oriented divine full casters as well. in fact, a lot of the players liked Kyra Steelskin and we frequently have 2 or 3 Kyra Steelskin Expies in the party per campaign.
Edit: Details on Kyra Steelskin
i built a female Suli Battle oracle of Gorum a while ago, i had trouble thinking of a name, the DM handed me his inner sea guide and told me to browse the Keleshite names, i asked him which would be easiest for him to remember. so he picked "Kyra" because of the iconic cleric, and after the campaign, i gave her the title "Steelskin", referring to her power to harden the carbon in her body to the point her skin was strong as steel. (reflavored revelation). she wore Glamered Plate, and slew powerful eldritch horrors with a greatsword, she carried a glaive as a backup weapon.
the easy ways to recognize a Kyra Steelskin Expy in our group are
planetouched human crossbreed with a bonus to strength and charisma (Suli and Angelkin for Example)
worships gorum
wears a suit of glamered full plate or eventually buys one
either has a reach weapon or some means of gaining reach
dumps wisdom
martially oriented oracle
usually comes at around 7th level or thereabouts
Edit: Details on Kyra Steelskini built a female Suli Battle oracle of Gorum a while ago, i had trouble thinking of a name, the DM handed me his inner sea guide and told me to browse the Keleshite names, i asked him which would be easiest for him to remember. so he picked "Kyra" because of the iconic cleric, and after the campaign, i gave her the title "Steelskin", referring to her power to harden the carbon in her body to the point her skin was strong as steel. (reflavored revelation). she wore Glamered Plate, and slew powerful eldritch horrors with a greatsword, she carried a glaive as a backup weapon.
the easy ways to recognize a Kyra Steelskin Expy in our group are
planetouched human crossbreed with a bonus to strength and charisma (Suli and Angelkin for Example)
worships gorum
wears a suit of glamered full plate or eventually buys one
either has a reach weapon or some means of gaining reach
dumps wisdom
martially oriented oracle
usually comes at around 7th level or thereabouts
...and here was I, just getting my hands on Blood of Angels and thinking "hot damn, would it be cool to play an Angeltouched Oracle of Battle!"
So thank you for shattering any delusions of originality I may have still harbored regarding this cheesy build.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Actual best way to fix a rogue.
1. Make Talents not suck.
2. Give them actual class features that let them do things.
This reminds me of this and this. Heehee. Funny stuff. That being said, Rogues do have problems in D&D/PF, and before anyone begins talking about D&D not being PvP, let me cut them off and say:
That's incorrect. ALL fights in D&D/PF are PvP. That is the nature of it. We're not dealing with creatures with scripted AIs or special rules. Every creature ultimately follows the same moves. There's not a significant difference between fighting a Rakshasa and a multiclassed Sorcerer NPC. Everything uses the same rules for HP, skills, damage, saving throws, and so forth be they PCs or NPCs and all are driven by a human mind making actual decisions based on the circumstances.
Any time you meet up with an enemy humanoid it's more PvP than you'd ever know. If you're fighting a warrior 12, wizard 7, and a pair of rogue 5 in an adventure, you are effectively fighting in PvP and all those classes come together and you get to see what is happening. You don't have to be fighting other PCs to be judged on your merits of class X vs Y and never have been.
Even monsters are given roles much as PC classed characters are. For example, Monster Roles clearly shows that there's not a lot of difference between PC classes and monsters when it comes to what they do. An encounter with an elemental, an erinyes, a dark stalker, and a dark naga isn't drastically different than an encounter with two martials, a sneak, and a caster.
When it comes to making rogues be awesome, I'd like to see them less about just trying to flank and more about being hands down the best class for inflicting lots of bleed and ailments on enemies. I'd like to see more stuff like:
Gruesome Wound (Ex) When making a sneak attack, a rogue with this talent may sacrifice half her sneak attack damage dice and inflict an equal amount of bleed damage (so 4d6 becomes 2d6 sneak attack and 2d6 bleed damage). Bleed damage does not stack. Bleed damage caused by this talent is particularly difficult to stop. The DC to stop the bleed damage caused by gruesome wound is increased by +2 for every 1d6 of bleed damage.
Blood Trail (Ex) Rogues with this talent are especially skilled at following the scent and small droplets of blood on their opponents. The rogue gains a bonus to Perception checks equal to one-half her rogue level (minimum +1) made to notice bleeding creatures. Additionally, she treats bleeding creatures with concealment as if they had no concealment and bleeding creatures with total concealment as if they only had concealment.
Agonizing Wound (Ex) Whenever a rogue with this talent deals sneak attack damage to a creature she may forfeit 1d6 or more sneak attack dice to sicken the creature for a number of rounds equal to the number of sacrificed sneak attack dice. In addition the target suffers a -2 penalty to armor class for the duration of the sickened condition.
Underhanded Trick (Ex) If a rogue with this talent would be able to sneak attack an opponent with an attack (such as when flanking or the opponent is flat-footed) the rogue may instead gain a bonus on combat maneuver checks made against the target. The rogue receives a +2 bonus for every 1d6 of sneak attack she possesses (so 1d6 becomes +2, 2d6 becomes +4, and so on).
Tendon Rip (Ex) If a rogue with this talent hits a bleeding opponent with a sneak attack, the target must succeed on a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + twice the rogue's sneak attack dice) or gain the staggered condition for 1 round.
Craven Grappler (Ex) If a rogue with this talent is wielding a light weapon or has the Improved Unarmed Strike feat she gains a bonus on grapple checks equal to her sneak attack dice (so 2d6 adds +2 to grapple). If the rogue chooses to deal damage with a light weapon with a successul grapple check the rogue may apply her sneak attack to the damage dealt.
Counting Coup (Ex) If a rogue with this talent uses the Vital Strike (or the Improved or Greater version) against a bleeding or dazed opponent the rogue multiplies her sneak attack damage along with the base weapon damage as part of the Vital Strike feat (thus a rogue that would deal 1d6 weapon damage and +2d6 sneak attack damage would deal 2d6 weapon damage and 4d6 sneak attack damage on a Vital Strike attack). Opponents wounded by this attack must make a Will saving throw (DC 10 + twice the rogue's sneak attack dice, not counting bonus dice from vital strike) or become shaken for 1 round.
Find the Gap (Ex) A rogue with this talent gains a bonus to attack rolls with all light or one-handed weapons equal to half the amount of sneak attack dice she possesses (so a rogue with 4d6 sneak attack gets an extra +2 to hit with light or one-handed weapons).
Relentless (Ex) A rogue with this talent is a master of critical hits. Whenever a Rogue makes an attack that would be a sneak attack, the rogue may forfeit a number of sneak attack dice before the attack roll is made. For every 1d6 forfeited the rogue's threat range with her weapon (or unarmed strike) increases by +1 (so a rogue who threatens a critical on a roll of 18-20 but sacrifices 4d6 damage now threatens a critical on a roll of 14-20). This adjustment is made after applying effects that double threat range (such as the Improved Critical feat or keen weapon enhancement).
Edit: Details on Kyra Steelskini built a female Suli Battle oracle of Gorum a while ago, i had trouble thinking of a name, the DM handed me his inner sea guide and told me to browse the Keleshite names, i asked him which would be easiest for him to remember. so he picked "Kyra" because of the iconic cleric, and after the campaign, i gave her the title "Steelskin", referring to her power to harden the carbon in her body to the point her skin was strong as steel. (reflavored revelation). she wore Glamered Plate, and slew powerful eldritch horrors with a greatsword, she carried a glaive as a backup weapon.
the easy ways to recognize a Kyra Steelskin Expy in our group are
planetouched human crossbreed with a bonus to strength and charisma (Suli and Angelkin for Example)
worships gorum
wears a suit of glamered full plate or eventually buys one
either has a reach weapon or some means of gaining reach
dumps wisdom
martially oriented oracle
usually comes at around 7th level or thereabouts...and here was I, just getting my hands on Blood of Angels and thinking "hot damn, would it be cool to play an Angeltouched Oracle of Battle!"
So thank you for shattering any delusions of originality I may have still harbored regarding this cheesy build.
you can still play an angeltouched Oracle of battle in your own group and they wouldn't recognize the difference. because they aren't familiar with Kyra Steelskin.
don't tell them you got the idea from Kyra Steelskin, because you hadn't know about her at the time. you could still flavor your oracle a little differently.
no idea is truly original, most of them have been used at least once, a lot of which, several times.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Bob, giving your crew maximum hit points was definitely a form of optimization. Nearly +100 hit points for most of them! In essence, you were covering for their suboptimal choices. If you hadn't, well, 'hard-fought' most likely would have become 'TPK'.
You were a nice GM that way. But the general discussion is about GM's who don't cover for their players that way.
Were you talking about in-combat healing? out of combat healing should never have been a problem. There's zillions of easy ways to heal outside of combat.
As for the cloak of displacement vs resistance, he should have just stacked them.
==Aelryinth
Bob, giving your crew maximum hit points was definitely a form of optimization. Nearly +100 hit points for most of them! In essence, you were covering for their suboptimal choices. If you hadn't, well, 'hard-fought' most likely would have become 'TPK'.
You were a nice GM that way. But the general discussion is about GM's who don't cover for their players that way.
Were you talking about in-combat healing? out of combat healing should never have been a problem. There's zillions of easy ways to heal outside of combat.
As for the cloak of displacement vs resistance, he should have just stacked them.
==Aelryinth
Having almost double HP is pretty amazing. God know I could tank Con like a boss if I knew we'd be fighting CR appropriate foes in Pathfinder while taking max HP. I mean, max on a d10 is 4.5 points higher than average. A little better than an 18-19 Constitution BEFORE Constitution. Barbarians would really love you. Having nearly double HP and still struggling vs TPKs is a pretty decent indication that this game isn't a cakewalk and you might actually need to be good at what you do.
Many of us don't stack the deck so heavily in the favor of the PCs however. EDIT: Oh yeah. And above-standard point buy. Maximum HP and above standard ability scores. Mmhmm.
Was I supposed to take "The game was incredibly lethal even after I gave everyone double HP and higher ability scores" as an indication that the game is balanced as written and that any sort of optimization is unnecessary?
Bob's example is a great illustration of the manner in which the game is balanced. It just means exactly the opposite of what Bob is using it to argue.
|
|
Bob, giving your crew maximum hit points was definitely a form of optimization. Nearly +100 hit points for most of them! In essence, you were covering for their suboptimal choices. If you hadn't, well, 'hard-fought' most likely would have become 'TPK'.
You were a nice GM that way. But the general discussion is about GM's who don't cover for their players that way.
Were you talking about in-combat healing? out of combat healing should never have been a problem. There's zillions of easy ways to heal outside of combat.
As for the cloak of displacement vs resistance, he should have just stacked them.
==Aelryinth
And you are assuming that each PC would have rolled for half. At the end of the day we don't know what the PC's would have rolled.
Bob, giving your crew maximum hit points was definitely a form of optimization. Nearly +100 hit points for most of them! In essence, you were covering for their suboptimal choices. If you hadn't, well, 'hard-fought' most likely would have become 'TPK'.
You were a nice GM that way. But the general discussion is about GM's who don't cover for their players that way.
Were you talking about in-combat healing? out of combat healing should never have been a problem. There's zillions of easy ways to heal outside of combat.
As for the cloak of displacement vs resistance, he should have just stacked them.
==Aelryinth
And you are assuming that each PC would have rolled for half. At the end of the day we don't know what the PC's would have rolled.
Rule of probability suggests they would remain close to averages. You have a 1/10 chance to roll 10 on a d10. Bob's PCs are the equivalent of scoring a 10% chance 19 times in a row, when an equal chance exists to roll a 1. Arguing "we don't know what they would have rolled" is stupid and sounds desperate.
EDIT: I've been using averaged HP since 3.x came out after reading a segment in the DMG that discussed that rolling badly on HP on a given level was more detrimental than rolling good occasionally. A 3rd level Fighter with 13 HP because the last two rolls he made were 1s is hurting a lot. Even if he would meet the average in the long run, rolling creates a greater chance of disparity between characters, and threatens to hurt PCs in much the same way rolling ability scores risks you getting 3s or your highest modifier a +1.
So I've used average HP since reading that. Because I realized that laws of probability dictate that with enough levels (assuming your players aren't cheating) the PCs should adhere to those averages, but it is less swingy (for every character who feels awesome 'cause he rolled above average for several levels there is a character who is scrapped because he rolled badly for several and died). I feel it is more fair.
EDIT 2: And it keeps in line with the way NPCs work. Bestiary/MM creatures all use averaged HP. This keeps things more or less even with PCs and Bestiary creatures. Of course you can certainly roll creature HP as easily as you can PCs, but that adds an extran and unnecessary amount of preparation to an adventure (and frankly it's a lot easier to track each mook having 5hp instead of 1-10 variant HPs between each of them), and again ensures nothing particularly swingy (the BBEG doesn't roll 1, 1, 2, 3, 2 for his 6d8 Hp, nor does he roll 7, 8, 8, 6, 8 for his 6d8 Hp).
And you are assuming that each PC would have rolled for half. At the end of the day we don't know what the PC's would have rolled.
You're really going with "It doesn't matter how hard the game is for people with average HP because everyone could potentially roll max HP and you can't prove anyone would have been merely average" as your argument?
Hypothetically - and I know this sounds crazy because it's really unlikely and in practice might never happen, but hypothetically - what if someone does somehow manage to roll average HP in a game that would be lethal even if they had twice as much?
And remember the law of large numbers: roll the hit die enough times and you'll usually come out close to average. The average HP from hit dice at as a 20th level fighter is 110, but you only have a 20% chance of rolling better than 120. Want better than 130? You're looking at a 5% chance. Better than 150? 0.07%. Automatically getting a 200 is hardly a trivial change, and it's vanishingly unlikely that the PC's would actually come anywhere near that with random rolls.
I'm more particular for just using a d6, and adding +2 per die type. That way the higher HD classes are pretty much guaranteed +2 hp/die more then those with less, which is much harder to match with False Life and a high Con score.
==Aelryinth
I'm more particular for just using a d6, and adding +2 per die type. That way the higher HD classes are pretty much guaranteed +2 hp/die more then those with less, which is much harder to match with False Life and a high Con score.
==Aelryinth
Heh. And here I thought my sometimes house rule of giving PCs bonus HP at 1st level equal to their HD was generous. On a side note, one could actually say it's much like that with average HP.
d6 = 3.5 HP / level (HP +0)
d8 = 4.5 HP / level (HP +1)
d10 = 5.5 HP / level (HP +2)
d12 = 6.5 HP / level (HP +3)
About half the effect of +2 per HD above d6. :P
Exactly. I'm an old schooler, and firmly believe that wizards should be wimpy and melee types tough. There should be NO hit point rivalry between them...the melees should win every time.
A spellcaster is more prone to take hit points for favored class instead of skill points. False life adds another +1/level. They are more likely to take Toughness over a fighter.
So that's +3 hp/level, and wizards can usually dump more stats then a fighter can, which means it's not all that hard for a wizard to have the same or more hit points then a fighter of equal level if they bother to.
By upping the average hit points per hit die, it becomes much harder to do that.
Giving bonus hit points at first level is a survival bonus. I like that, too.
==Aelryinth
I make my players roll their HP, but they use half their HD as the minimum... e.g.: A Fighter who rolls a 2 on his d10 HD is considered to have rolled a 5. A Wizard would have gotten a 3, and a Barbarian a 6.
Plus Con modifier, of course.
This means character's HP is somewhat above average, unless they are really unlucky.
Bob, giving your crew maximum hit points was definitely a form of optimization. Nearly +100 hit points for most of them! In essence, you were covering for their suboptimal choices. If you hadn't, well, 'hard-fought' most likely would have become 'TPK'.
You were a nice GM that way. But the general discussion is about GM's who don't cover for their players that way.
Were you talking about in-combat healing? out of combat healing should never have been a problem. There's zillions of easy ways to heal outside of combat.
As for the cloak of displacement vs resistance, he should have just stacked them.
==Aelryinth
I wasn't covering suboptimal choices. I was ensuring that they had an enjoyable experience. They don't like clerics or most divine casters. They had ways to heal out of combat but they couldn't maintain the in combat healing. When I was dealing damage, I could deal enough to take out the wizard in a single hit (as an example of the amount I was dealing). That's a lot of damage.
They didn't ask me to adjust anything. When I saw the wizard having to use his limited wishes and wishes to bring characters back from the dead, I made the decision to give them maximum hit points. This was around level 16 or so and I made it retroactive. My players never asked me for it. I was seeing a character death every two weeks or so. That's far more than I want to see in my campaigns. Everyone had their character die at least once during the campaign. One player lost his character 5 or 6 times. That's too much.
The cloak issue was not my decision. I allowed my players to craft their own custom items. If they didn't come up with it, then that was their problem. However, the saving throws weren't as much of an issue as the damage coming their way so he made the decision that he felt would be best.
Converting 3.5 Age of Wyrms to Pathfinder increased the lethality of the adventure quite a bit especially at the higher levels where there were more feats for the opponents. Some things had to go through major conversions because there weren't simple conversions. For example, there is no dracolich template in Pathfinder.
3 3 3 4 5 6 for a d6 raises the average to 24/6, or 4/die.
4 4 4 4 5 6 7 8 for a d8 raises the average to 42/8, or 5.25.
5 5 5 5 5 6 7 8 9 10 for a d10 raises the average to 64/10, or 6.4
6x6, 7 8 9 10 11 12 raises the average to 95/12, or 7.917.
Slightly more beneficial to higher hit dice, but it does stop the low hit point problem.
==Aelryinth
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Bob, I didn't say they asked you for anything. But what you did is optimize them for them so they could survive. That's the opposite of what you have been arguing about...that optimization isnt' neccessary.
If you had kept on killing them, eventually they would have gotten the impression that they were doing something wrong. Why? Because they weren't geared out to survive...gold left on the table for gear, no healing classes for combat recovery, etc etc etc.
You said they had a great experience and I don't doubt you a bit. But you aren't playing the same game as the rest of us...you used GM Fiat to make the game more enjoyable for characters that in a 'normal' game wouldn't have been able to perform. You optimized them to keep the fun level the same for you and for them.
Which is a great thing for a gaming talk and DM experience, but out of place in a discussion on class balance that relies heavily on standard rules, you know?
I mean, to put it bluntly, by doing what you did, you basically said, "This fighter-heavy party is perfectly fine and capable as long as everybody has maximum hit points."
Which is basically a huge admission that there's something wrong with fighter types who can't support themselves in combat.
==Aelryinth
"I wasn't covering for their suboptimal builds. I was just giving them large bonuses to make up for their suboptimal builds getting them killed."
I don't think you understand what "covering" means here.
Have to agree with Roberta, Bob. You're covering for them...all to add to the fun, but you covered for them.
the rest of us are talking about games where the DM does NOT cover for you.
==Aelryinth
Was I supposed to take "The game was incredibly lethal even after I gave everyone double HP and higher ability scores" as an indication that the game is balanced as written and that any sort of optimization is unnecessary?
Bob's example is a great illustration of the manner in which the game is balanced. It just means exactly the opposite of what Bob is using it to argue.
That's not even remotely close to what I said or even what I was trying to say. This is yet another example of you arguing against something that wasn't said.
Let me make it clear: I don't think the game is balanced and that any sort of optimization isn't necessary. I think that some classes work better than others at different levels, with different races, with different players, with different campaigns, and with different situations. I also think that some level of optimization is necessary but it doesn't have to be at the level that people around here pretend it needs to be. Builds don't have to be perfect.
In an effort to be right, you didn't take into account anything other than the incredibly tiny bit of information I gave you about the characters. I didn't post every single encounter and how I had to convert it to Pathfinder. I didn't post every single event that happened (some things they did had repercussions later). I didn't post every bit of gear they found. Heck, I don't even think I posted the wizard's entire spell list. You didn't even take into account that I use the Critical Hit and Fumble Decks (my players love them) and that Improved Critical and Keen stack, which makes for more lethal combats.
They started with 15 point buy and I didn't like it after the first adventure so I told them to boost it to 20 point buy. That was after doing a lot of research on what 4d6, drop the lowest rolling method is closest to representing. My decisions aren't knee-jerk reactions. They are thought out and meant to enhance the game for the players.
In the next AP I plan to run, things will be different. I don't think I will need to worry so much about the same issues. I plan on doing some things differently. If, after running things for a while, I see that the players aren't having as much fun as I think they can have, then I will make appropriate changes based on what we, as a group, see as the problem(s). That's the job of the GM.
Technically, Bob, that's still covering for suboptimal choices. They chose not to have a cleric/oracle/whatever, and you covered for it giving msx HP.
That said, I think youu made a good call and for a good reason. Nobody should play a class they don't like just because "the party needs a healer!".
In one of the campaigns I play we have no divine caster, and even with the "roll HP, minimun half" rule, the only reason noone died so far is because we ran like wussies a few times. heh. Sure, Infernal Healing, wands and potions + Sorcerer and Rogue with great UMD scores help, but running like a wussy as definetly the key to survival.... lol
Anyway, what I mean is: You made an adjustment to ensure your players are having a good time, and that's basically the whole job of the GM.
The campaign I'm GMing has no dedicated arcane caster. Well, there is a Magus now, but they are still seriously lacking in utility spells, so I make sure that whatever challenge they meet doesn't *require* them to have a wizard, sorcerer or witch... Although that would have helped a great deal sometimes.
Technically, that's also covering for a suboptimal choice, as they were the ones who chose not to have a wizard, but it's something I feel comfortable doing. I don't pull punches, but I make sure no class is absolutely necessary for the party to succeed..
For a party with no wizards, that can be giving them wands and scrolls, or making them meet helpful NPCs. For one with no cleric, increasing HP and letting them find helpful wands may be a viable solution.
Yeah, bob, but Keen/IC stacking favors PC's...it's a non-stat, non-class based way of increasing damage. I even notice the paladin has TWO scabbards of keen edges, and every melee combatant took Imp Crit...and had Keen weapons. They'd be stupid not to.
Now, how many enemy monsters are likely to have that combination?
The standard campaign is also 15 pt buy...PFS/heroic is 20. So, another raise of the bar.
I'm not saying you did anything WRONG, Bob, but your pradigm is set to favor the PC's in this example...which covers for weaknesses of the PC's. It's not a good example.
==Aelryinth
Bob, I didn't say they asked you for anything. But what you did is optimize them for them so they could survive. That's the opposite of what you have been arguing about...that optimization isnt' neccessary.
If you had kept on killing them, eventually they would have gotten the impression that they were doing something wrong. Why? Because they weren't geared out to survive...gold left on the table for gear, no healing classes for combat recovery, etc etc etc.
You said they had a great experience and I don't doubt you a bit. But you aren't playing the same game as the rest of us...you used GM Fiat to make the game more enjoyable for characters that in a 'normal' game wouldn't have been able to perform. You optimized them to keep the fun level the same for you and for them.
Which is a great thing for a gaming talk and DM experience, but out of place in a discussion on class balance that relies heavily on standard rules, you know?
I mean, to put it bluntly, by doing what you did, you basically said, "This fighter-heavy party is perfectly fine and capable as long as everybody has maximum hit points."
Which is basically a huge admission that there's something wrong with fighter types who can't support themselves in combat.
==Aelryinth
What would have happened is that the campaign would have come to an end. They weren't overly happy with having to keep all that diamond dust around.
The AP conversion made the game more lethal than it was in 3.5. I could have weakened the enemy or done something simple. Maximum hit points was simple.
I didn't claim that a fighter-heavy party is perfectly fine. I never, made that claim. Not once. In fact, go back and read what I wrote and what it was in response to. It was about in and out of combat things to do. It had nothing to do with whether or not the characters could fight. I even made that clear.
"There is some overlap with the skills. Some characters diversified more than others. No one ever felt like they didn't have something to do in or out of combat. They would go out of their way to find something to do. Even the ones with Knowledge (engineering) saw some use of that skill when it came time to use ballistas or to rebuild areas that had been devastated. "
I didn't give anyone extra skills or feats. They made their own choices. They decided what they wanted to do with their points. They came up with ways to use their skills. They would get creative with what they had to work with when it came to their skills. None of them felt like anyone else was overshadowing anyone else.
Yeah, bob, but Keen/IC stacking favors PC's...it's a non-stat, non-class based way of increasing damage. I even notice the paladin has TWO scabbards of keen edges, and every melee combatant took Imp Crit...and had Keen weapons. They'd be stupid not to.
Now, how many enemy monsters are likely to have that combination?
The standard campaign is also 15 pt buy...PFS/heroic is 20. So, another raise of the bar.
I'm not saying you did anything WRONG, Bob, but your pradigm is set to favor the PC's in this example...which covers for weaknesses of the PC's. It's not a good example.
==Aelryinth
It's also not what I was talking about in the post so it's moot.
I think Bob's point is not that you can play with no optimization whatsoever, like playing a monk who spends all his feats in Skill Focus: Profession: (a different one every time).
I think his poinht is that you can get by without having to make the best possible choices everytime. And that's very true. Sure, some encounters and challenges will be harder than usual, possibly much harder than they are supposed to be, but you don't need every drop of munchkin-juice just to get by.
I try and use different tricks with my monsters/NPCs so my players learn/remember them, especially the ones who are less experienced with RPGs.
The bandits will use trees for cover, the orcs with use prepared actions, an enemy cleric will leave open slots just in case, friendly npcs will check for traps, a retired-adventurer will tell tales about how a wand of CLW and a Bag of Holding saved his life...
You don't have to be *completely* optimized to be a successful adventurer, (although that helps) as long as you know a few tricks and can be creative.
Technically, Bob, that's still covering for suboptimal choices. They chose not to have a cleric/oracle/whatever, and you covered for it giving msx HP.
That said, I think youu made a good call and for a good reason. Nobody should play a class they don't like just because "the party needs a healer!".
In one of the campaigns I play we have no divine caster, and even with the "roll HP, minimun half" rule, the only reason noone died so far is because we ran like wussies a few times. heh. Sure, Infernal Healing, wands and potions + Sorcerer and Rogue with great UMD scores help, but running like a wussy as definetly the key to survival.... lol
Anyway, what I mean is: You made an adjustment to ensure your players are having a good time, and that's basically the whole job of the GM.
The campaign I'm GMing has no dedicated arcane caster. Well, there is a Magus now, but they are still seriously lacking in utility spells, so I make sure that whatever challenge they meet doesn't *require* them to have a wizard, sorcerer or witch... Although that would have helped a great deal sometimes.
Technically, that's also covering for a suboptimal choice, as they were the ones who chose not to have a wizard, but it's something I feel comfortable doing. I don't pull punches, but I make sure no class is absolutely necessary for the party to succeed..
For a party with no wizards, that can be giving them wands and scrolls, or making them meet helpful NPCs. For one with no cleric, increasing HP and letting them find helpful wands may be a viable solution.
Here's one of the encounters they had to deal with. It was significantly more dangerous than the original write up with the conversion. Cleric or not, this was a dangerous foe (and it wasn't the last adventure).
The party was level 18 or 19 when they encountered this beast. The CR is wrong because Hero Lab doesn't do those calculations correctly.
Dragotha
Dragotha CR 32
XP 1638400
Male Dragon, Red, Wyrm
CE Gargantuan Undead ((dragon), fire)
Init +4; Senses blindsense, darkvision, dragon senses, low-light vision, smoke vision; Perception +55
Aura cowering fear, fire aura, frightful presence (330 feet, 5d6 rounds) (dc 41)
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 52, touch 12, flat-footed 52 (+4 shield, -4 size, +36 natural, +6 deflection)
hp 743 (27d8+518)
Fort +33, Ref +20, Will +27; +4 bonus vs. channeled energy.
Defensive Abilities channel resistance +4, soul ward (27 hp); DR 20/good; Immune ability drain, bleeds, energy drain, exhaustion, fatigue, physical ability damage, death and necromancy effects, disease, fire, mind-affecting, non-lethal damage, paralysis, poison, sleep, stunning, undead traits; SR 43
Weakness vulnerability to cold
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 40 ft., flight (250 feet, clumsy)
Melee Bite (Dragon, Red, Wyrm) +48 (6d6+65/17-20/x2) and
. . Claw x2 (Dragon, Red, Wyrm) +48 x2 (2d8+45/19-20/x2) and
. . Tail slap (Dragon, Red, Wyrm) +46 (2d8+65/19-20/x2) and
. . Wing x2 (Dragon, Red, Wyrm) +46 x2 (2d6+25/19-20/x2)
Space 20 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Special Attacks breath weapon (60-ft. cone, 22d10 fire, every 1d4 , breath weapon (dc 41), energy drain (natural attacks, 1 level) (dc 41), soul consumption (dc 41), soul magic
Spell-Like Abilities Detect Magic (At will), Find the Path (At will), Pyrotechnics (At will), Suggestion (At will), Wall of Fire (At will)
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 20):
9 (8/day) Imprisonment (DC 32), Time Stop, Transmute Blood To Acid (DC 32)
8 (8/day) Create Greater Undead, Trap the Soul (DC 31), Horrid Wilting (DC 33)
7 (8/day) Finger of Death (DC 32), Forcecage (DC 30), Teleport, Greater
6 (8/day) Geas/Quest, Dispel Magic, Greater, Unwilling Shield (DC 31)
5 (9/day) Waves of Fatigue, Wall of Force, Dominate Person (DC 28), Telekinesis
4 (9/day) Scrying (DC 27), Ice Storm, Dimension Door, Charm Monster (DC 27)
3 (9/day) Animate Dead, Lesser, Ray of Exhaustion (DC 28), Vampiric Touch, Haste
2 (9/day) Resist Energy, Blindness/Deafness (DC 27), Mirror Image, Detect Thoughts (DC 25), Death Knell (DC 27)
1 (10/day) Shield, Unseen Servant, Magic Missile, True Strike, Reduce Person (DC 24)
0 (at will) Arcane Mark, Open/Close (DC 23), Read Magic, Mending, Mage Hand, Detect Magic, Prestidigitation (DC 23), Message, Penumbra
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 50, Dex 10, Con —, Int 26, Wis 24, Cha 37
Base Atk +37; CMB +61; CMD 77 (81 vs. Trip)
Feats Bleeding Critical, Critical Focus, Flyby Attack, Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy), Greater Vital Strike, Hover, Improved Critical (Bite), Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack (Bite [Dragon, Red, Wyrm]), Improved Vital Strike, Maximize Spell, Multiattack, Persistent Spell, Power Attack -10/+20, Snatch, Spell Focus (Necromancy), Toughness +37, Vital Strike, Wingover (1/round)
Skills Acrobatics +37 (+41 jump), Appraise +48, Bluff +53, Diplomacy +53, Fly +26, Intimidate +61, Knowledge (arcana) +48, Knowledge (geography) +48, Knowledge (history) +48, Knowledge (religion) +48, Linguistics +14, Perception +55, Sense Motive +47, Spellcraft +48, Stealth -4, Use Magic Device +50
Languages Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Infernal, Orc, Undercommon
SQ manipulate flames, melt stone
Other Gear Amulet of mighty fists +5, Headband of alluring charisma +6, Ring of spell turning (3/day), You have no money!
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Breath Weapon (60-ft. cone, 22d10 fire, every 1d4 rounds, Ref half) (DC 41) - 0/1
Detect Magic (At will) (Sp) - 0/0
Find the Path (At will) (Sp) - 0/0
Improved Iron Will (1/day) - 0/1
Pyrotechnics (At will) (Sp) - 0/0
Ring of spell turning (3/day) - 0/3
Suggestion (At will) (Sp) - 0/0
Wall of Fire (At will) (Sp) - 0/0
Wingover (1/round) - 0/1
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Bleeding Critical Critical Hits deal 2d6 bleed damage.
Blindsense (120 feet) (Ex) Sense things and creatures without seeing them.
Breath Weapon (60-ft. cone, 22d10 fire, every 1d4 rounds, Ref half) (DC 41) Using a breath weapon is a standard action. A dragon can use its breath weapon once every 1d4 rounds, even if it possesses more than one breath weapon. A breath weapon always starts at an intersection adjacent to the dragon and extends in a direction
Breath Weapon (DC 41) (Su) A ravener keeps the breath weapon of the base creature - the save DC for this breath weapon is now Charisma-based. In addition, a ravener's breath weapon bestows 2 negative levels on all creatures in the area. A successful Reflex save halves the dama
Channel Resistance +4 +4 bonus to save vs. Channel Energy.
Cowering Fear (Su) Frightful presence causes shaken foes to cower 1 rd, frightened foes cower for duration.
Critical Focus +4 to confirm critical hits.
Damage Reduction (20/good) You have Damage Reduction against all except Good attacks.
Darkvision (240 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Dragon Senses (Ex) See four times as well as a human in dim light and twice as well in normal light.
Energy Drain (natural attacks, 1 level) (DC 41) (Ex) Foes hit by the listed attack take neg levels, gain 5 temp hp for each drained.
Fire Aura (Su) An adult red dragon is surrounded by an aura of intense heat. All creatures within 5 feet take 1d6 points of fire damage at the beginning of the dragon's turn. An old dragon's aura extends to 10 feet. An ancient dragon's damage increases to 2d6.
Flight (250 feet, Clumsy) You can fly!
Flyby Attack You can take a standard action during your move action while flying.
Frightful Presence (330 feet, 5d6 rounds) (DC 41) This special quality makes a creature's very presence unsettling to foes. Activating this ability is a free action that is usually part of an attack or charge. Opponents within range who witness the action may become frightened or shaken. The range i
Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy) +1 to the Save DC of spells from one school.
Hover Can hover in place without Fly checks, and kick up dust cloud if within 20 ft of ground.
Immune to Ability Drain Immune to ability drain
Immune to Bleeds You are immune to bleeds.
Immune to Energy Drain Immune to energy drain
Immune to Exhausted You are immune to the exhausted condition.
Immune to Fatigue You are immune to the fatigued condition.
Immune to Physical Ability Damage Immune to ability damage to your physical abilities.
Immunity to Death and Necromancy effects (Ex) You are immune to Death and Necromancy effects.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Fire You are immune to fire damage.
Immunity to Mind-Affecting attacks You are immune to Mind-Affecting attacks.
Immunity to Non-lethal Damage You are immune to Non-Lethal Damage
Immunity to Paralysis You are immune to paralysis.
Immunity to Poison You are immune to poison.
Immunity to Sleep You are immune to sleep effects.
Immunity to Stunning You are immune to being stunned.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Manipulate Flames (Su) An old or older red dragon can control any fire spell within 10 feet per age category of the dragon as a standard action. This ability allows it to move any fire effect in the area, as if it were the caster. This ability also allows it to reposition
Maximize Spell All variable effects of a spell are maximized. +3 Levels.
Melt Stone (Su) An ancient or older red dragon can use its Breath weapon to melt rock at a range of 100 feet, affecting a 5-foot-radius area per age category. The area becomes lava to a depth of 1 foot. Any creature in contact with the lava takes 20d6 points of fire
Persistent Spell Foes must succeed at 2 saves or suffer the spell's full effects.
Power Attack -10/+20 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Ring of spell turning (3/day) Reflects next nine levels of spells cast on wearer.
Smoke Vision (Ex) A very young red dragon can see perfectly in smoky conditions (such as those created by pyrotechnics).
Snatch You can start a grapple if you hit with a claw or bite attack.
Soul Consumption (DC 41) (Su) When a living creature within 30 feet of a ravener dies, that creature's soul is torn from its body and pulled into the ravener's maw if the dying creature fails a Will save (DC equals the save DC of the ravener's breath weapon). This adds a number o
Soul Magic (Sp) A ravener retains the base creature's spellcasting capability, adding three levels to the base creature's caster level. This increases the number of spells known by the ravener, but the ravener loses all spell slots. Instead, whenever the ravener wis
Soul Ward (27 Hp) (Su) An intangible field of siphoned soul energy protects a ravener from destruction. This ward has a maximum number of hit points equal to twice the ravener's Hit Dice, but starts at half this amount. Whenever a ravener would be reduced below 1 hit point
Spell Focus (Necromancy) Spells from one school of magic have +1 to their save DC.
Spell Resistance (43) You have Spell Resistance.
Undead Traits Undead are immune to death effects, disease, mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, phantasms, and patterns), paralysis, poison, sleep, stun, and any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects
Vital Strike Standard action: x2 weapon damage dice.
Vulnerability to Cold You are vulnerable (+50% damage) to Cold damage.
Wingover (1/round) Can turn up to 180 degrees as a free action without a Fly check.
I think Bob's point is not that you can play with no optimization whatsoever, like playing a monk who spends all his feats in Skill Focus: Profession: (a different one every time).
I think his poinht is that you can get by without having to make the best possible choices everytime. And that's very true. Sure, some encounters and challenges will be harder than usual, possibly much harder than they are supposed to be, but you don't need every drop of munchkin-juice just to get by.
I try and use different tricks with my monsters/NPCs so my players learn/remember them, especially the ones who are less experienced with RPGs.
The bandits will use trees for cover, the orcs with use prepared actions, an enemy cleric will leave open slots just in case, friendly npcs will check for traps, a retired-adventurer will tell tales about how a wand of CLW and a Bag of Holding saved his life...
You don't have to be *completely* optimized to be a successful adventurer, (although that helps) as long as you know a few tricks and can be creative.
This is one of the points I'm trying to make.
The point of the builds was to show actual characters from a campaign that felt like they had things to do in and out of combat who were not optimized. Yes, they had some optimization (only an idiot wouldn't have some) but they weren't beings of perfection that people claim is needed. Heck, there were even multiclassed characters in there, one of which was a rogue (which is considered a weak class on the boards).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah, Dragotha is often considered the big bad of that adventure.
That said, I've heard of fights where he gets taken out in two rounds. Why? Because
a) you're given some magic items blessed by the dead wizard to be extremely effective against Dragotha.
b) you know what he is...he's an undead red dragon. He's a freaking legend. If you can't optimize against an enemy that you know exactly what to do against, what is the problem?
Their problem is obvious...they don't have clerical protections. No Death wards, no restorations, no mass healing. Their buffing capacity is limited. Did they buy custom arrows to use against him? I can imagine a Paladin Holy Swording a + 1 Speed bow with Manyshot, using Greater Magic Weapon on +1 Dragonbane Holy Axiomatic Arrows with a smite. From waaaay over there, doing opening round double smite damage. There's actually an example of a paladin doing just that to a unique epic red wyrm the designers thought was pretty rad...and one rounding it.
However, the paladin alone, armed with the +20 to hit toy, should have been able to attack and hit with every single melee iterative. With a Sun sword doing double damage on every hit. With a Smite. And Power Attacking. All you had to do was get the paladin up next to it and in one full attack it's going to be down to less then half life. If the paladin has an Aura of Justice going for the rest of the party, it should have been dead right then (um, not sure they get it as Oathbound paladins?).
But they didn't. They made suboptimal choices, they couldn't hang, and you covered for them. It was probably a damn fun game. But you covered for them!
And it's not the same game as the rest of us are arguing out. they made suboptimal choices, you covered for them, and it was fun. Nobody is arguing that it was WRONG...it's just not a good example for a discussion about balanced rules in a standard game.
==Aelryinth
Here's the hilarious account of elicia Stormraven taking down Mettarak the Dragon Prince:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/npc-s/npc-20/elicia-stormraven
I'm going to have to look up the Oath paladin now and see what they get. Sigh.
==Aelryinth
It seems like elicia had good luck with her dice. I wonder if a fighter could kill that dragon in one turn.Here's the hilarious account of elicia Stormraven taking down Mettarak the Dragon Prince:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/npc-s/npc-20/elicia-stormraven
I'm going to have to look up the Oath paladin now and see what they get. Sigh.
==Aelryinth
A 20th level two-handed fighter with a scythe, full specialization, and their auto-crit attack ability could do it IF they were wielding a modified sun-blade to instead be a scythe, which was enhanced with the collision enhancement (psionics), I think. I'd need to do the math, but it might fall short actually (and has big troubles vs static evasion %, but blind-fight might alleviate that).
*crunches some numbers* Yes, he could one-round the dragon if he hit, assuming Power Attack, 2 handed weapon, a +5 collision sun scythe (custom item), 30 Strength (fair optimization), full specialization, full-weapon training, x5 critical multiplier, and auto-crit on a standard action.
Oops, wait. Doubling = tripling so the custom sun-scythe only makes it x6, so one sec while I recalculate something. Nope. Won't do it. It can't kill Metterak. :\
But I wouldn't expect it to honestly. I don't expect the Fighter to one-shot things like this. I don't expect Rangers or Paladins to either (even though they would have a much better chance of doing so honestly, because of Instant Enemy + Quarry / Smite Evil).
On a side note Metterak is a dirty cheater. >:(
EDIT: Wait, everyone is a dirty cheater! The Paladin's grayflame bow is an illegal item (melee weapons only)! Sounds like these pregens need some pruning! Though I doubt the grayflame ability helped much (it's only +1d6 damage).
Metterak is a 3rd party draconic demigod. very few DMs i know allow third party, and the few i do, limit it to dreamscarred press's psionics rules. and only if a case can be made for them to be setting appropriate and said case is made for them. such as dark sun.