Hobgoblins use Goblins for their slave labor and cannon fodder, having the entire race eliminated would be a bother for them, and they're tactically minded and intelligent. They could certainly have the brains and the tools to try to "save" their cousins for their own purposes. Powerful Hob mages or alchemists could create clones or arrange breeding programs, perhaps with the aid of magic, and get the race repopulated. Once you get them started, Goblins reproduce quickly enough to regain their numbers without difficulty, especially if they're protected from further harm.
Lost tribe of goblins was found and introduced a handful of genetically distant individuals to help with the genetics.
Possibly their god intervened as well in some way. Could be tied to either of the other options.
I see a couple of ways. One would be for goblins from another plane or planet. There could also be survivors somewhere else in the world. Maybe on another continent.
Since hobgoblins use them as slaves some could have escaped being slaughtered by the fact they were slaves. Unless of course all hobgoblins where also slaughtered.
Goblins are related to hobgoblins so maybe they are cross fertile and they may be able to breed with hobgoblins. If this is the case goblins may simply be the runts of hobgoblins that have inbreeding for a while. Given enough time goblins may reappear from the weakest hobgoblins being forced into the role goblins used to have.
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I'm not a geneticist - but IIRC it only takes a population of around 20 to ensure genetic stock is viable without inbreeding issues.
Assuming that your first 20 mate liberally (which I would assume goblins do).
And it takes generations for real issues to arise - studies done on this have shown our (modern) stigma against inbreeding is much stronger than it needs to be (from a purely genetic standpoint), and that even having something as simple as different mothers (or fathers) is enough of a difference to skip most of the issues outside of passed down traits like cancer/etc.
More likely the two thousand that are left shouldn't really have any problems at all if you wanted to be 'realistic' about it.
Or you know - you could just say that in a fantasy game about magic that goblins mutated beyond the issues and no longer have problems.
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The usual rule of thumb is the 50/500 rule.
From Wikipedia "Researchers in conservation biology have tended to adopt the "50/500" rule of thumb initially advanced by Franklin and Soule. This rule says a short-term effective population size (Ne) of 50 is needed to prevent an unacceptable rate of inbreeding, while a long‐term Ne of 500 is required to maintain overall genetic variability. The prescription corresponds to an inbreeding rate of 1% per generation, approximately half the maximum rate tolerated by domestic animal breeders. The value attempts to balance the rate of gain in genetic variation due to mutation with the rate of loss due to genetic drift."
I'm not a geneticist - but IIRC it only takes a population of around 20 to ensure genetic stock is viable without inbreeding issues.
It varies depending on species. Humans are particularly bad because we aren't a very genetically diverse species.
Good post by Ckorik. The gene pool is important. If it's large enough, inbreeding won't be an issue, and life survives in some pretty extreme circumstances. Also, mutations could allow for a new race of genetically SUPERIOR goblins, if conditions are right. There is a clan of Hillbillys in the Ozarks (not kidding) who are known for producing some very high IQ's.
Remember they are a fantasy race too (the goblins, not the hillbillys), and there is also active divine power to consider. Who says Hadregash would allow his goblins to be wiped out?
Great information SlimGauge
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I can honestly say this is the first time I've seen this topic on a forums.
On Golarian, at least, most goblins worship Lamashtu. Since she's the goddess of deformity and madness, the end results of generations of close inbreeding would probably be seen as a BLESSING, rather than a problem.
I don't know if this works for your campaign, but I figured that I'd throw it out there.
Here's my problem.
My friends want to play goblins. The problem is that in my game universe, the last group of friends I had genocided the goblins down to two brothers and their mother and now they number around two thousand and suffer massive race penalties because of this.
I know what you're thinking, "Why don't you just rewrite the history?" Well I don't just want to rewrite it. What do you guys think?
Any and all suggestions would help.
There's already some great replies to your conundrum that would work just fine. I respect your wanting to keep your gameworld continuity intact from previous changes made by the PCs who've come along before. That's what makes it 'your' world. :)
You said that in your game 'universe' the gobs were wiped out save a family who've now bred to 2000. Well, PF and D&D work in a 'multiverse' which gives you as GM infinite creative material to draw from.
There are likely goblins on the many planes of existence, different planets (unless your PCs traveled the galaxy wiping them out) and different TIMES. I had lots of fun with a group that did some time travel on their prime material home world years back. Did all kinds of crazy fun and random things to the story arc.
I like the idea of a lost tribe brought up by another poster. Why not have a tribe enslaved by the denizens in the underdark or found in lost caverns that were recently excavated by the dwarves. Nothing is ever 'permanent' in your game world. Keep looking to the alternatives and you'll find something that can make 'sense' to your players and restore this classic race to it's full fire loving, dog eating, chaos loving glory!
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You really think your players' characters are good and thorough enough to depopulate all of Golarion? On the surface and in the Darklands? Only 2000 goblins left? Did they go into Darklands and wipe out all of them there? What about the ones hobgoblins had? Or ogres? Maybe even a younger dragon. They hit all the various islands on Golarion?
What about Tien?
Casmaron?
Other lands that Paizo haven't even named yet?
I really don't think they could have done that.
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Mr. Fufu's world is a terrifying place where the entire planet is covered with a necromantic cloud and the last vestige of life is Somalia.
The Goblins should be happy they're dead. They don't have to deal with The Great Old one.
-Urist Doomforge, Fighter
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Just let them inbreed. A few generations will be ...lets say deficient, but then it'll get progressively better with a decent breeding program.
Well I'll put it this way. There's 300 000 humans left in this world. That's including two planes and that's the highest its ever been...
Meh no point argueing about wether or not the party COULD wipe out goblins. And I think the original poster recognizes that several being overlooked is quite possible, especially with divine intervention of some sort.
Are there any effect polymorph or other transformation effects that could be used long term? Or to term to be precise. A single goblin smart enough might get sick of the lack of mates, and just find some local animals and use magic to solve the problem. That way, you'd get something like genetic diversity. Or too much really. Maybe have a couple little quirks here or there where some are born with animal traits.
.....why are you looking at me like that? Oh, like you all can judge. I am simply responding in kind to the topic.
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Use Planar Binding to summon some outsiders for an infusion of superior genetic material.
Goblins are pretty much the poster children for inbreeding and mutation anyway; where do you think goblin snakes and goblin dogs come from?
Goblinoids breed so fast that after a few generations, there's enough of them to attain a safe-sized gene pool. A few generations after that, natural (cutthroat) selection eliminates any weakening deformities.
Divine curative magic may reduce the consequences of inbreeding; spells like Regenerate, Heal and Reincarnate offer possibilities.
Breed with dragons.
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I thought everyone knew goblins are born fully formed from piles of stinking garbage?
That might need some citation...
See, back when I used to play alot of Heroes of Might and Magic II, I noticed that buying a garbage pile for the Barbarian army's forts caused a +8 weekly growth rate for goblins. Since there weren't any goblins in the game that weren't fully grown warriors, that led me to postulate that the barbarians must be farming mature goblins from their refuse. The garbage pile increased the amount of goblins so it only made sense that more garbage means more goblins.
I've since introduced a legend to every campaign I run that any amount of putrid refuse from the meager contents of the smallest wastebin to the foul, reeking filth of the largest landfill may eventually produce fully grown, ready-to-rumble goblins.
EDIT - If that doesn't work for you, you could also just introduce a Deepspawn to your campaign. Deepspawn are in the Monsters of Faerun book and have the ability to give birth to any creature they've ever eaten. A Deepspawn shows up who ate some goblins a long time ago, pops a few out and your other goblins meet the goblinspawn and invite them over for a candlelit dinner and disgusting goblin coitus. Bam, problem solved. You're welcome.
I'll believe you reduced the Goblin race to three individuals when you reduce the cockroach population to three individuals.
Though if at some time in the distant past the goblin race was only three individuals, well that would explain a lot.
Kind of like that Lovecraft story about the family of inbred crazy people.
You mean the south?
As ridiculous as your premise is, you seem to want to refrain from undoing any previous actions from the party or undermining their efforts with a "well you missed a few, obviously." I can appreciate that.
However it is still a world with gods and magic. What if one of the remaining gods, a powerful outsider, or some magically inclined race has been "guiding" the race back to it's former glory for their own use? Many races and creatures are the product of magical interference with nature, and several have even been bred as servitor races. It's entirely within the mythos of the game.
In fact, it'd be really interesting to find whole colonies of goblins who have been bred back to their former glory by scheming Naga intent on making them their newest pets. Perhaps they're smarter than before but susceptible to charms and influence (penalties to saves vs. enchantments) and have a lot of social programming that makes them worship the Naga as gods. It would add a whole serpent spin on the race and give your PCs something new and interesting to play without taking a bunch of penalties or having their accomplishments undermined.
Have the characters be reincarnated humans. They could have been any race really and been killed for any number of reasons. Their parents followed the druidic faith and had enough cash to have them reincarnated. They came back as goblins.
Actually, the reincarnation that Mysterious Stranger suggested might be a more interesting way of doing the same thing, Whisperknives. Just have them going around, killing other races, casting reincarnate, and hope for the best. If they focus on weak targets, they could dominate them enough to have the main control over the next generation.
Plus all the failures will lead to hilarious problems for the local areas. But would inbreed goblins think about that?
Since there is a 4% chance of any creature reincarnated coming back as a goblin time alone will take care of it. assuming that around a hundred reincarnates are cast every year all over the world it will only take a couple of decades to stabilize the race. goblins may fill a needed role in the ecosystem so nature may decided to increase the chance of a coming back as a goblin. Assuming that about half the goblins brought back this way do not survive or otherwise find each other it should take around 50 years for the population to stabilize.