In our Carrion Crown game, we have one PC who's a halfling rogue 1/sorcerer 4. The player would like for the PC to be more "rogue-y" next level, but none of us are sure what the best way to go about it is.
One option is to take some more levels in rogue, possibly even taking levels in the Arcane Trickster prestige class some day. That would mean more skill points to bump the PC's rogue skills up a few notches, but on the other hand the PC is our only arcane spellcaster so there are some mixed feelings about a PC that will knows one level 2 spell at class level 7.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to get some more skill points for this sorcerer? Maybe a prestige class, although I'm not sure what the PC would qualify for (for feats she has PBS, Precise Shot and something else that I'm forgetting at the moment).
What's he been spending his favored class bonus on ?
Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to get some more skill points for this sorcerer?
Headband of Intelligence grants max ranks in one skill per +2 bonus.
Otherwise, there's always masterwork tools and things like that.
What's he been spending his favored class bonus on ?
Skill points. But 4 skill points per level (12 Int) aren't going as far as the player would like, I guess. Ideally, he'd probably be maxing out Perception, Disable Device, Stealth, and Spellcraft at the very minimum but with some points left over for stuff like Sense Motive, Knowledge Local, etc.
Let them go with the Arcane Trickster. Encouraging people to do something with their character against their wishes is pretty hypocritical when other people aren't willing to do the same. Don't complain if he is the only Arcane spellcaster if no one else was willing to play one.
Let them go with the Arcane Trickster. Encouraging people to do something with their character against their wishes is pretty hypocritical when other people aren't willing to do the same.
That's good advice, but the player clearly has mixed feelings about the PC. He's said at least a couple of times that in retrospect he would probably have just made a wizard or something. He's mostly familiar with AD&D, and during character creation he got exciting by the idea of the sorcerer class and 3E-style multiclassing. I'm a big believer in the idea that half the fun in RPGs is in tinkering around with the rules and seeing on my own what works and what doesn't work, and now he's at the stage where he's realised that the PC doesn't quite do what he thought it would do.
I don't think he wants to roll up a brand new PC, but that's another possibility, I suppose.
A rogue is many things - what is he lacking in particular?
Good question. :-)
I think having lots of ranks in roguish skills is one thing. Also, I think he'd like a PC who could do some actual sneak attacking; he was initially very enthused about having his PC snipe with her bow or sneak attack with her claws (she's a draconic sorcerer), but in practice her attempts to sneak attack have fallen flat compared to "cast Magic Missile for the 23487th time".
The idea of the sage bloodline is kind of interesting; I'm not sure if he's into the idea of revamping the character or not. I think our GM would allow anything reasonable.
I was hoping that there was an easy-to-enter arcane prestige class that gives 6 skill points per level or something, but it doesn't sound like it.
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Be a Sage Sorcerer and focus on INT, then go Arcane Trickster.
Also, I think he'd like a PC who could do some actual sneak attacking; he was initially very enthused about having his PC snipe with her bow or sneak attack with her claws (she's a draconic sorcerer), but in practice her attempts to sneak attack have fallen flat compared to "cast Magic Missile for the 23487th time".
Once he gets Greater Invisibility, spells like Scorching Ray and Contagious Flame are oh so fun for Arcane Tricksters. I've run extremely dangerous blasters focusing on Sneak Attack (I'd recommend Rogue, Assassin or Ninja 1/Vivisectionist 1, or Vivisectionist 3 to get the Sneak Attack to qualify), and it was quite fun.
With regards to the Arcane Trickster class and Greater Invisibility: I'm a bit reluctant to rely on any combos that will take 5 more levels before paying off; I think he's looking for something a bit more immediate.
I think the Sage bloodline might be the most practical suggestion. We've already discussed crafting some Pages of Spell Knowledge (my PC has Craft Wondrous Item).
Update: I have good news and bad news. The good news is that the player has the perfect opportunity to retool his PC. The bad news is that his PC was killed. :-/
We'll see what he decides in two weeks.
Take next 2 level as Rouge then go Arcane Trickster. As far as the rest of the party they need to play there PC not his.
Take next 2 level as Rouge then go Arcane Trickster. As far as the rest of the party they need to play there PC not his.
I'm confused -- where does it say the rest of the party is concerned about that particular PC? On the contrary, I think we've been pretty happy with his PC's contributions.
Take next 2 level as Rouge then go Arcane Trickster. As far as the rest of the party they need to play there PC not his.I'm confused -- where does it say the rest of the party is concerned about that particular PC? On the contrary, I think we've been pretty happy with his PC's contributions.
Not sure, but I think Tom and Osterick may be getting that from "on the other hand the PC is our only arcane spellcaster so there are some mixed feelings about a PC that will knows one level 2 spell at class level 7"
The other thing i was going to mention is the Loremaster PrC. It has a base of 4 skill points, one of the secrets is more, plus bonuses to the knowledge skills.
However, it is a fairly late access PrC (can't take it until level 8 at the soonest), has a lot of requirements, many people don't like it, and doesn't advance the sorc bloodline.
If not bringing a sorc back in, could try one of the bard archtypes. That sounds like the best fit as described to me.
This 3rd party list of feats has one that would let him enter the trickster class with a single level of rogue, if your GM is OK with it.
Take next 2 level as Rouge then go Arcane Trickster. As far as the rest of the party they need to play there PC not his.I'm confused -- where does it say the rest of the party is concerned about that particular PC? On the contrary, I think we've been pretty happy with his PC's contributions.
"but on the other hand the PC is our only arcane spellcaster so there are some mixed feelings about a PC that will knows one level 2 spell at class level 7"
One option is to take some more levels in rogue, possibly even taking levels in the Arcane Trickster prestige class some day. That would mean more skill points to bump the PC's rogue skills up a few notches, but on the other hand the PC is our only arcane spellcaster so there are some mixed feelings about a PC that will knows one level 2 spell at class level 7.
Arcane Trickster is by no means an over powered class, to cut back on the brutal requirements my GM let me burn a feat once to pick up the extra d6 on the sneak attack so the Prestige class could be obtained with only one level of rogue. The feat was worded something like "Magical Knack" applied to the Character's Sneak attack. Worked fine.
"but on the other hand the PC is our only arcane spellcaster so there are some mixed feelings about a PC that will knows one level 2 spell at class level 7"Take next 2 level as Rouge then go Arcane Trickster. As far as the rest of the party they need to play there PC not his.I'm confused -- where does it say the rest of the party is concerned about that particular PC? On the contrary, I think we've been pretty happy with his PC's contributions.
Ah, I see. I meant that the particular player had mixed feelings about falling behind in spellcasting. He was already a bit disappointed at being only able to cast level 2 spells at level 6, for instance.
Not sure, but I think Tom and Osterick ...
Who?
Well, anyway, I hope they are happier with their new character. Sometimes another chance helps quite a bit.
Not sure, but I think Tom and Osterick ...Who? ...
LOL, I really did bugger up your name. Sorry I was talking on the phone and typing at the same time.
It's okay, I just added you to the list.
Oh yes, I know who you all are.
[maniacal laugh]Buahahahahahaha[/maniacal laugh]
My own house-rule is that all Sorcerors get automatic free ranks in their Bloodline Class Skill.
I find that otherwise, with the limited skill points, that it is just an empty class feature, if you can't afford to put points into the skill to keep it relevant (or even get the Class Skill bonus in the first place). Having the skill 'set' by the Bloodline removes some min-maxing opportunity, as well as giving another differentiator between Bloodlines.
I sometimes play with giving them another skill ranks/level (for a total of 3 + Bloodline skill),
which I feel goes with the flavor, in that there isn't as much formal or even informal training with a Sorceror,
their powers just emerge, so they should have plenty of skill development in the 'free time' they have.
I think 3+BL is more than enough, given other options for increasing skill ranks (favored class, decent INT).
But just 2+BL is a signifigant increase from my experience, not enough to be 'max rank skillmonkey', but enough to let the character fill a wider role (such as maxing 1 CHA-social skill) whether maxing one skill or dabbling in a broader range.
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One thing to keep in mind when houseruling the skill system is how many players are in your game.
If you have six players in your game then nobody should need more skill ranks. But if you only have three then a lot of things will fall by the wayside if you aren't dishing out extra skill points. Most of the useful skills are intended in such a way that one person in the party ought to be good at it, but not everyone needs it, though there are some (such as Perception) that everyone should take ranks in.
Sorcerers kind of get a raw deal because even though they have a number of useful skills in class they tend not to have a high intelligence to exploit them.
I recently put together a sorcerer for a friend's campaign, and I ended up putting one of my best stats into INT just because I couldn't take advantage of the skills I wanted to otherwise. You think "With a high CHA I can put ranks into Diplomacy and Bluff and be the party face" but with only 2+INT ranks and a need for things like Spellcraft and UMD you don't have the ranks to take advantage of these things. There's a reason why the bard class gets so many skill ranks.
One houserule fix would be to give the Sorcerer 2+CHA skills instead of 2+INT, but say that the extra skill ranks he gets this way must be put into either CHA-based skills or spellcraft/knowledge(arcana).
This page lists some homebrew feats I use in my game to handle multiclassing since I prefer smaller parties. In particular the multiclass/favoured feats can be used for small out-of-class dips, allowing you to exchange feats for things like spells per day or caster levels. It can be expensive feat-wise but worth it if you need to maintain your abilities in your favoured class.
Edit:
Also, the Page of Spell Knowledge and the Ring of Spell Knowledge are ways to get more spells into your sorcerer's arsenal by just paying for them, though you are still limited by your spells per day.
Peet
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2+Int skill points per level rarely feels adequate to me, even with a favoured class bonus and an extra rank if you're human.
Another general option is a homebrew/conversion feat that gives an extra skill point per level. It's the skills equivalent of "Toughness". I think my group took it out of the Star Wars d20 and it was called "Open-Minded".
2+Int skill points per level rarely feels adequate to me, even with a favoured class bonus and an extra rank if you're human.
Another general option is a homebrew/conversion feat that gives an extra skill point per level. It's the skills equivalent of "Toughness". I think my group took it out of the Star Wars d20 and it was called "Open-Minded".
For those feeling the skill-point pinch, Super Genius Games' free Stocking Stuffers now offers the option of Background Skill Points! Okay, it's only 2 more points per level, and only for a narrow range of skills that fit the character's backstory, but they're free, so you can devote your class-granted ranks to 'stuff that matters'. ;)
Look up the Unseen Seer from 3.5s Complete Mage. Easy pre reqs, and probly the best rogue/ wiz out there. Make sure your DM is into the backwards comparability.
If you allow custom items, a slotless +1 to 1 skill item costs only 200gp bought, 100gp crafted. My players carry a lot of these, I flavour them as little gold coins with runes engraved in them.
Since the PC died, maybe a Bard would do a better job of blending casting and skills? The bard spell list isn't bad, and they've got almost everything as a class skill, generous helpings of skill points, and versatile performance for some additional wiggle room.
I think he was leaning slightly towards a wizard (the sorcerer's twin sister), but I can't say for sure what he'll decide. Hopefully we won't have a TPK before we get back to town!
Evangelist. :)
And lose a level of spell casting when you're already behind wizards? I say go sage blooded.
The game ended about a year ago, but thanks for the suggestions.