Why don't you just go with a Magus? This way, you have some spells and great martial ability w/o trying to multi-class into it. The Magus can produce a total bad-@$$ character and there are quite a few archetypes out there that might suite your flavor.
I'd think about going with the Kensai using a Falchion or Greatsword as my weapon or the Myrmidarch if I wanted more fighter flavor.
If I wanted more spell caster flavor I'd go with the normal magus or the Spell Dancer (elf only) archetype.
Just something to think about unless your DM allows Gestalt characters and then you could truly multi-class and level up your warrior/wizard.
You would be happier taking the Magus class, I think. This is a single class that combines the fighter and an arcane spellcaster into one. They can do lots of cool stuff that, judging by your post, I think you would like. Check it out.
If you would rather just do fighter/sorcerer, that's fine, but I don't recommend it. Here are the reasons:
* If you just take Magus, You can just use it for your Favored Class bonus. If you do fighter/sorcerer, you will need to choose 1.
* If you do fighter/sorcerer, you wouldn't be able to cast as many or as powerful spells as a Magus of the same level can cast.
* The Magus can imbue his magic into his fighting, which is just cool. This works differently (and not as well) with fighter/sorcerer.
* A Magus can save himself a LOT of money with his Arcane Pool. A fighter/sorcerer would have to pay for that stuff with GP.
* At level 13 a Magus can wear heavy armor without worrying about Arcane Spell Failure. I think this is impossible to do with fighter/sorcerer.
And there are probably other reasons, but these are the ones off the top of my head. In short: be a magus!
EDIT: Ninja'd!
The flavor's all wrong, but a Dragon Disciple may help you mechanically meet your desires. Alternately (though I'm not a huge fan of the class), the Eldritch Knight could help you out. Both are caster/martial hybrid Prestige Classes in the Core book.
The problem you'll face (if you want to stick with the two primary classes) is that your spell-cating will suffer heavily unless you stay full caster. Low DC's often mean that your spells just don't have much kick or staying power as you go up in levels.
Ouch, Core only... Well that really limits your options for the flavor you want. My mind went to Eldritch Heritage, but then looked it up and that's from Ultimate Magic. I'm not sure what I'd do to get the type of character you want with that restriction.
I'd probably end up going with a Ranger because then you'd get some spells, good melee, and good range - which sounds like what you want to be able to do. This gives you the options you want, but you just don't have the arcane spell-casting ability. *shrugs*
Edit: Oh just thought of something else if you are Core-only.
You could go with a bard! Not sure if the Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic is open to you or not, but you might want to look at the Dawnflower Dervish if it is. If you can, then you get some arcane spells from being a bard and are pretty dang good with a sword. Otherwise a normal bard who hangs out in back to buff the party, debuff the enemies, and uses a bow is the way I'd seriously think about going.
I forgot to mention this but my group play strictly within the Core Rules, which unfortunately Magus is not apart of.
I thought the Magus is core rules. It shows up in APs. Or do you mean you only use the Core Rule book.
@voska66 - I'm sure he means Core Rule Book only as the Magus isn't part of that book, it's part of the Base Classes from the APG, which sucks for him I think, but it's their game.
Edit: Oh just thought of something else if you are Core-only.
You could go with a bard! Not sure if the Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic is open to you or not, but you might want to look at the Dawnflower Dervish if it is. If you can, then you get some arcane spells from being a bard and are pretty dang good with a sword. Otherwise a normal bard who hangs out in back to buff the party, debuff the enemies, and uses a is the way I'd seriously think about going.
This is actually a pretty decent suggestion, but again -- not in the Core Rulebook.
This is actually a pretty decent suggestion, but again -- not in the Core Rulebook.Edit: Oh just thought of something else if you are Core-only.
You could go with a bard! Not sure if the Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic is open to you or not, but you might want to look at the Dawnflower Dervish if it is. If you can, then you get some arcane spells from being a bard and are pretty dang good with a sword. Otherwise a normal bard who hangs out in back to buff the party, debuff the enemies, and uses a bow is the way I'd seriously think about going.
Yeah, that's why I said if the campaign book isn't open to them to just be a normal bard.
Wait! You want me to read your entire post?!
Such high standards. (my bad... i totally missed that)
Wait! You want me to read your entire post?!
Such high standards. (my bad... i totally missed that)
Hah, not a problem! I do the same thing more often than I like to admit!
Eldritch knight is core. Some people bash them, but a lot of people like them, too. More caster than fighter, but if you have time to self-buff, you can fight pretty well, too.
|
The build is backward from what you're proposing, but fighter 1 / sorcerer 6 / eldritch knight 10 / arcane archer 3 isn't a bad approach from the kind of concept you're describing. You end with a CL and a BAB both at 17, a decent mix of fighter feats and strong spell accessibility, and so on. I recommend a one-handed sword (longsword, scimitar if you like crits, bastard sword if you don't mind the feat cost) so you can easily switch between 1-handed and 2-handed use as needed for spellcasting or damage output.
I made a core-only EK for my friend's son a few months ago. I don't have my computer on me at the moment, so I can't give you specifics. But here is a quick attempt off the top of my head. I'm suggesting this character based on the assumption you favor your fighting skills over your casting
Half Elf Fighter 1/Sorcerer (Arcane Bloodline) 9/Eldritch Knight 10
BAB: 15/10/5 (1+4+10)
Base Saves:
Fort 10 (2+3+5)
Reflex 6 (0+3+3)
Will 9 (0+6+3)
Caster Level: 18
Effective Sorcerer level (for purpose of powers): 9
Effective Fighter level (for purpose of feat prereqs): 11
Stat Array: Str > Cha > Con > Dex > Int > Wis
Feats by level: (* = bonus feat)
1/F1 - Power Attack*, Weapon Focus (Falchion)
2/S1 - Eschew Materials*
3/S2 - Arcane Armor Training [make sure to get a mithril chainshirt]
5/S4 - Toughness
7/S5 - Iron Will
9/EK1 - Improved Familiar, Improved Initiative*
11/EK3 - Weapon Specialization (Falchion)
13/EK5 - Improved Iron Will, Arcane Strike (At this point it's +3 damage that can stack with your weapon spec)
15/EK7 - Quicken Spell (At this point you can use quickened true strike and quickened mirror image in battle)
17/EK9 - bleeding Critical
18/EK20 - EK gives you Spell Critical
19/S7 - Spell Focus Necromancy or Enchantment* (simply because they have the debuffs, you can also go evocation), Greater Weapon Focus
20/S8
So by level 20 you still have access to a level 9 spell, you have decent bonuses to hit with Weapon Focus + Improved Weapon focus and your 3/4 BAB. You can also cast Greater Magic Weapon to have a +4 weapon, opening up your gold for other stuff (I still suggest you invest 8000 gold on making a keen falchion)
Armor-wise, you have a mithril chainshirt which you can enchant to +5 for a total of +9 armor, and mix it up with a ring of protection, amulet of nat armor, and stuff like mirror image or displacement spells (these 2 spells can be cast without any arcane spell failure, as they have no somatic components)
Your Swift action can be made up of 3 different options depending on your playstyle:
- Arcane strike for up to +4 damage to each attack (and I'm assuming you will have your 3 attacks + haste attack)
- Quickened True Strike to make sure that third attack hits (again, no somatic components to cast this spell)
- Spell Critical on a critical confirmation (which also has the bleeding critical effect). I suggest a power word or something like that that, again, has no S components (and a lot of high level spells fall under this category for some reason)
|
Hmm id ask ur dm if he will allow the feats Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization Ray Spell. If so u just got a +1 attack and +2 damage with all ur ray spells. Meaning crappy d3 lv 0 ray spells that only do 1-3 damage now do 3-5. It does not look major but it will allow u to do some thing every round when a target is to far to hit with a melee weapon or u have ran out of spells and ammunition. With that said a sorcerer fighter would be effective.
oh and since you want to have some ranged fighting capabilities, thanks to the spell greater magic weapon all you need is a composite longbow (with appropriate strength rating, of course) for a magical weapon.
Alternatively, you can use rays (of the scorching kind...hint hint)
Finally, you can drop a bonus combat feat up there somewhere and take deadly aim.
@Psion, there is no need to ask for a GM for that
You can weapon focus/spec rays since they are considered weapons for the purpose of feats and such
Draconic Disciple is another good alternative, if you don't mind sacrificing spellcasting for melee combat.
Core-wise, Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Draconic Disciple 4/Eldritch Knight 10 is the way to go.
you lose 4 casting levels (Meaning that you cap at level 8 spells, and your CL drops by 4, but you do have a BAB of 17 and a +4 to str.
Look at this 3 Prestige Classes Arcane Archer, Dragon Disciple,
Eldritch Knight.
Arcane Archer
Base Attack Bonus: +6.
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (longbow or shortbow).
Spells: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells.
Dragon Disciple
Race: Any nondragon.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks.
Languages: Draconic.
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells without preparation. If the character has sorcerer levels, he must have the draconic bloodline. If the character gains levels of sorcerer after taking this class, he must take the draconic bloodline
Eldritch Knight
Requirements
To qualify to become an eldritch knight, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Weapon Proficiency: Must be proficient with all martial weapons.
Spells: Able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells.
To get them all you need BaB +6, 3rd spell as Sorcer and Knowledge arcene 5 ranks, 3 feats Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (longbow)
If it was me I go
level 1 Fighter 1 Feats Skill focus, Weapon Focus long bow, Extra rait
Level 2 Sorcerer 1 Dragon Blood line Tattooed type Alertness (Scorpion)
Level 3 Sorcerer 2 Eldritch Heritage (Ork)
Level 4 Sorcerer 3
Level 5 Sorcerer 4 Point blank
Level 6 Dragon Disciple 1
Level 7 Dragon Disciple 2 Craft Wondrous item, Power Attack
Level 8 Eldritch Knight 1 Precise Shot
Level 9 Eldritch Knight 2 Craft Arms / Armor
Level 10 Arcane Archer 1
Level 11 Arcane Archer 2 Improved Eldritch Heritage(Ork)
Level 12 Arcane Archer 3
Level 13 Arcane Archer 4 Improved Familiar Fairy Dragon
Level 14 Dragon Disciple 3
Level 15 Dragon Disciple 4 Quick Spell likeability(Ork Ability)
Level 16 Dragon Disciple 5 Quicken Spell
Level 17 Dragon Disciple 6 Greater Eldritch Heritage (Ork)
Level 18 Dragon Disciple 7
Level 19 Dragon Disciple 8* Combat Casting, Improved INT
Level 20 Eldritch Knight 3
At Level 20 you have
BaB +16, Caster level 17 Casting 8th level Spells, +16 STR, +6 CON, +2 INT, +9 Natural Armor, Breath Weapon, 5 Bonus Feat form class, resist some type of energy 10, Make your own Magic Stat items, Robe, Weapons, and Armor. And you +6 to your Initiative
Trait
Magical Knack, Optimistic Gambler, Warrior of Old (Elf)and your pick.
Touch of Rage (Sp): At 1st level, you can touch a creature as a standard action, giving it a morale bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, and Will saving throws equal to 1/2 your sorcerer level (minimum 1) for 1 round. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier. This gets Quickened at level 15 and last 1d3 Rounds due to Optimistic Gambler and MAX at +9
You missed the part where it was core only, though
I'd be tempted to go fighter 5, sorcerer 2, arcane archer 10, then 2 more fighter and 1 more sorcerer. Your bab would be 18 and you'd cast as a level 10 sorcerer.
One thing to keep in mind is that the bard spell list hardly has any offence to it and don't work often as backup spells. Their spells are made more for being cast at the beginning and controlling crowds.
The wings power is overrated imo
Yeah you get to permanently fly, but you're gonna have a bad Fly check unless you invest ranks in it (Sorcerer and fighter get 2 per level)
At least with overland flight you add half your CL to your bonus.
The wings power is overrated imo
Yeah you get to permanently fly, but you're gonna have a bad Fly check unless you invest ranks in it (Sorcerer and fighter get 2 per level)
At least with overland flight you add half your CL to your bonus.
Anyone with Fly Speed or Swim speed speed get + 8 to Skill due fact you have it natural Mode of movement.
Anyone with Fly Speed or Swim speed speed get + 8 to Skill due fact you have it natural Mode of movement.The wings power is overrated imo
Yeah you get to permanently fly, but you're gonna have a bad Fly check unless you invest ranks in it (Sorcerer and fighter get 2 per level)
At least with overland flight you add half your CL to your bonus.
That's true with climb and swim speeds, but not fly speeds. The bonus (or penalty) you get is based on your maneuverability.
Look... half and half (fighter/sorcerer) is bad. you have a few options here.
Eldritch Knight: Fighter 1/ Sorcerer 6? Ek X. Most powerful in endgame, takes a long time to develop, as you have already noted. They basically play like a beefy wizard with high BAB near high levels... very effective, but takes some time getting to. a great, versatile build that matures around level 9-12.
Dragon Disciple: Interesting, but I haven't much advice on them... They are definitely decent if built right... I just never liked the flavor.
Arcane Archer: Fighter (or ranger, barbarian, paladin) 4/Sorcerer 4... OR Fighter (or whatever) 5/Sorcerer 2 OR Fighter (or whatever)6/Sorcerer 1. The build variations are many here, and with different strengths: some emphasize caster level over BAB or feats. the basic idea here is a martial character with a dabbling of magic. Many people will tell you how bad an Arcane Archer is, etc. the reality, is, an arcane archer is better off than an equivalent level martial archer. Spells add A LOT of versatility that a martial character will just never match. Arcane Archers still clock in around tier 4 (or very low 3, possibly the lowest tier 3 class combo) if you care about such things.
it sounds like you want an Arcane Archer. Don't let people telling you had bad they are discourage you, they are more viable than people will lead you to believe.
I would do (core only, right??):
Fighter 5/Sorcerer 2/Arcane Archer X. ( i would actually choose wizard over sorcerer, but thats jsut me.)
Fighter 5 gets you 3 feats and Weapon training: With Gloves of Dueling, you can milk another 2 att./damage out of it. IF Gloves of Dueling aren't available, I would go fighter 4/Sorcerer 4. Gets you a feat, and access to weapon specialization... But still gives you a semi-decent caster level and slightly higher spells.
At this point i would try to convince you to use wizard to get an extra spell level out of the build, and more access to scrolls and spells known... but thats up to you.
Use spells for utility: Act like an assassin. use spells that get you into places, spells that give you an edge over martial types. Dont try to blast things. Its counter intuitive to the Imbue Arrow ability, I know. Keep a couple area spells for mooks if things get hairy, but focus on more useful, more difficult to replicate abilities:
spider climb, fly, invisibility, Knock, various minor illusions (ghost sounds, silent image, etc.) Mirror Image, Infernal Healing (just in case), Vanish, Disguise self, Expeditious Retreat, Protection from X spells, Protection from Arrows/ windwall (I know my Gm likes to pit me in ranged combat when he realizes melee types rarely hit me), See Invisibility, Blur... I think you get the idea.
Let your primary caster deal damage and save or dies. You deal in utility.
I doubt you will need more than 14 CHA or INT, depending on whether you go Sorcerer or Wizard. More is better, sure, but don't start with more than a 14 in your casting stat, and don't add any more into it. If you get an item that boosts it, fine, but it won't make or break your build. Use your stat boosts for STR or DEX.
Get the usual feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim, Manyshot, Weapon Focus: longbow (required) Weapon Specialization (since you might as well, being forced to get the requirement, and its one of the perks of being a fighter), Clustered Shots (or use different types of arrows: cold iron, silver, etc). Arcane Strike will be a good idea at some point. You are probably not going to wear armor: casting spells is better than eating the spell failure chance, and the feats for Arcane Armor training etc. is better spent. Stay in the back if possible ,and not use armor. If the action gets too close, use a spell, wand, or scroll of mage armor and/or shield, Mirror Image, Blur, etc. If you REALLY want to wear armor... Wear Studded Leather Darkleaf armor. 5% spell failure isn't too bad, and may be worth the gamble.
Remember, Having a spellcasting class means you can use wands and scrolls from your spell list without UMD. This lends a lot of versatility to your character if you use it properly. Even during low levels when you can barely cast spells... you can still contribute via wands and scrolls.
Most of all, be creative, think outside of the box. Its a pen and paper game, you are permitted to think, its not real time. Just a bit of creativity and thought can make even low level spells shockingly useful. Your niche is utility, not blasting.