Not to my knowledge and there isn't anything on the X to Y thread.
I dunno, here's an idea... pick up a shield?
If you want to do damage with a two-handed weapon, you have to accept that you will always have lower AC. If you want to be a tank with a high AC, you have to accept that your damage will suck. That's just the basic concept of offense-vs.-defense. You can have high(er) AC or high damage. Not both.
According to the various 'experts' I've seen here, the higher damage is more desirable, because it ends fights faster. Higher AC just means you're a threat to be handled later, and the enemy bypasses you and goes after a squishy instead. Higher damage means you're a threat to be handled sooner than later... giving your squishy friends more time to do damage/neutralize the enemy as well.
But picking up a Heavy Shield +2 will increase your AC by four. Oh, you could also get an Amulet of Natural Armor for some AC bonus. And save up to expand your belt bonus to include Dexterity as well; since you're a fighter, you have Armor Training, which lets you use more Dexterity with your armor. But if you want a high-damage one-handed weapon, you'll probably have to spend a feat for a bastard sword. Hope you didn't get Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization in that two-handed weapon; that would suck for you, if you had to go to a one-handed weapon, all because you didn't like your character taking damage.
You're a fighter, grab a shield. If you don't want to use it and want to hack, use your weapon with two hands. If you want the defense, use it with one.
It's an option in combat. Using a Greatsword takes away that option. There's a reason people train bastard swords and use longswords...so they have the option!
==Aelryinth
Find a way to resist attacks with your CMD instead of your AC.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
No, you can't add Strength to AC; it's quite ridiculous.
If you're a Fighter wearing Full Plate, you should have Armor Training. This reduces ACP, and increases the MDB of all armor by 1. Meaning if you have a Dex of 14 or higher, you should be getting extra Dex AC. If you're hurting for AC that much, get a +2 Dex Belt, assuming your MDB is 2 or higher due to Armor Training.
Amulet of Natural Armor gives a unique Natural Armor Enhancement bonus to AC, and works even if you don't have Natural Armor.
Getting Mithril armor can also free up some of that MDB, increasing the MDB of the metal armor by 2, meaning more Dex to add in, should you have that much. Even so, it frees up encumberance, and makes it easier to run with. (Plus, it's classified as Medium Armor outside proficiency pre-reqs, meaning if you take the Endurance feat, you can sleep in it.)
Having a shield also helps; having a Mithril Tower Shield helps out even more, especially since you don't have to spend Proficiency Feats to use it, being a Fighter and all, giving you a base +4 Shield AC that doesn't conflict with your Full Plate in terms of MDB. You do pay in ACP, though...
If you have Dex 13, it wouldn't hurt to get the Dodge feat, since many "defensive" feats are tied with Dodge as a pre-req. This bonus not only applies to AC, but also to CMD, so it helps when you're getting tripped or grappled, etc.
I also recommend getting Shield Focus and/or Shield Specialization feats, and their upgrades, should you decide to utilize a shield.
If I had more specifics as to your archetype and/or build plan, I could probably give more info. But in general, these tips help out as a Fighter for AC.
|
is there some way you can add your strength bonus to AC?
Not that I know of, but you can trade attack bonus for AC in the form of fighting defensively or Combat Expertise (or both). Like the shield advice up-thread, it comes down to judging the situation and altering your tactics. Some fights you can happily run in two-handing, some you want to whip out that shield and fight defensively. If you're playing a Fighter then you have a ton of options in combat - no need to stick to only one style of fighting all the time.
IMHO, YMMV, natch. ;)
I don't think str to AC is ridiculous. You look at Muay Thai Boran, they "defend" with elbows and knees to block and deflect/redirect the line of attack. It looks pretty effective. I could see something like that as the basis for a str-based AC bonus. Wouldn't apply when flatfooted, probably would replace dex.
I don't think str to AC is ridiculous. You look at Muay Thai Boran, they "defend" with elbows and knees to block and deflect/redirect the line of attack. It looks pretty effective. I could see something like that as the basis for a str-based AC bonus. Wouldn't apply when flatfooted, probably would replace dex.
Please get your reality out of my fantasy. They do not go well together -- they are not peanut butter and chocolate. :)
Here, Muay Thai Chaiya from Human Weapon. This is what I was thinking of. (from the timestamped point at ~31:48 till ~ 34:00)
Your defense is moving in and blocking their arms/limbs with elbow strikes aggressively.
Even in 3.5, there was no way to add Str bonus to AC. All five other stats could be added though, including Con through an odd prestige class I think.
Not true. Any sort of "parry" mechanic that lets you roll an opposed attack roll to prevent a hit is effectively strength to AC (if you're still using str as your melee stat). For example, the Wall of Blades maneuver in tome of battle. PHB2 also had a parry-based feat, I just forget the name because it sucked. :)
Con could be added to AC multiple ways. I know of 2, a dwarven prestige class in Races of Stone ("deep warden", I think?) and the Fist of the Forest PrC in C.Champion, that actually stacked. The first replaced dex to AC, the latter was in return for not wearing armor, similar to monk's wis to AC.
Solo's excellent barbarian handbook, "Guide to being Bane" details the combo quite well. "You block with your chest!" :D
But then you're starting to edge into 4E D&D, with classes like the Warden. Wardens add Constitution to Armor Class as well as Fortitude Defense. (See, in 4E D&D, you don't have Fortitude, Reflex and Will saving throws. Instead you have them as defenses. An attacker has to hit that defense in order to affect you with the power/effect. So spells are no longer auto-hit.)
No, there's no way to do it.
For some reason it's okay for dex to do almost everything strength does but the reverse is not okay.
So write a feat or fighter archetype, get feedback on it here and use it in your home games.
But I suggest you also write a feat or fighter archetype allowing you to add your Dexterity modifier to weapon damage, too. After all, fair is fair.
Or you could just play D&D...
Its much harder to stack dex for one. A level 1 Orc Barbarian can have 26 strength while raging. Having a barbarian with over 20 AC at level 1 while adding +19 on greatsword swings would be ridiculous.
Just curious about that +19 damage -- I'm building a 2-handed fighter and you're 4 more than I can see:
+12 (STR) + 3 (Power Attack) = +15
As a half-orc barbarian, you're all out of feats already, so all you've got are possibly a couple of traits. What are you taking that gives you +4 more damage?
Its much harder to stack dex for one. A level 1 Orc Barbarian can have 26 strength while raging. Having a barbarian with over 20 AC at level 1 while adding +19 on greatsword swings would be ridiculous.
Just curious about that +19 damage -- I'm building a 2-handed fighter and you're 4 more than I can see:
+12 (STR) + 3 (Power Attack) = +15
As a half-orc barbarian, you're all out of feats already, so all you've got are possibly a couple of traits. What are you taking that gives you +4 more damage?
that requires a full orc that invests a 22 in strength, rages, dumps several mental stats, and spends a feat on power attack.
|
Since we're living in the land of hypothetical monster-PCs, let's talk about the goblin Urban Barbarian with 26 dexterity while raging that has over 20 AC and has the same attack bonus. Except that's already legal with content that exists.
Let's level the playing field some. Assume this is the feat in question:
Prerequisites: Strength 13, FILLER FEAT, Perform (dance) 2 ranks, proficient with scimitar.
Benefit: When wielding a scimitar with one hand, you can use your Strength modifier instead of your Dexterity modifier for armor class. You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand or have done so since your last turn.
That second part is to pre-emptively quell any two-handed power attack ungrip/regrip shenanigans.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The thing everyone is leaving out is the Dex to damage options are pretty limited and most of the time sub-optimal for damage. Dervish Dance is only one weapon and only one hand, Can not two hand for damage and can not have a shield.
Weapon Finesse + Agile enchantment is only light weapons so pretty weak all around. Aldori Dueling sword + agile might be the most optimal but if you are using dex you are not getting 1-1/2 Dex to damage as a str two hander would.
More so the only reach weapon useable in this Dex to damage area is pretty near impossible to make useable.
Str to Ac on the other hand you would have super AC reach wielding mega damage dealing Barbs right out the gate with no trade off.
|
|
Sure the strength based build will have slightly more AC and damage (at super high levels).
In exchange the dex based build has a monster init bonus, a boost to a saving throw, a good ranged attack bonus, and the ability to be good at skills (beyond swim and climb).
I'd say those are fair trade offs.
The difference is that you can't get damage and a half bonouses from dex builds.
A feat that foreces builds to only allows normal strength to damage but give AC wouldn't be the end of the world.
Although I personally don't like Dervish Dance or Agile.
To the person above me, jump isn't a strength based skill. You only get climb and swim :).
A big difference is that the maximum Dex bonus to AC presumably wouldn't apply to Strength - it would be hard to justify it thematically, and most effects that add some other ability score to your AC (like Duelist) aren't affected by that cap. That's going to lead to more than just a "slight" disparity in AC.
|
is there some way you can add your strength bonus to AC? through feats or magic items or spells (maybe storing a permanent spell in an item?)
i have a lvl 7 fighter with 23 AC (full plate +2, ring of prot +1, dex mod +1)
so 23 AC isnt as much as id like, looking for more
I don't think anyone mentioned this before your thread went off to la la land, though the shield advice comes close..., but have you considered getting an Animated Shield?
It's expensive at a +2 bonus, but I've seen several 2-handers over the years use Animated Shields. Basically, you carry your two-handed weapon one-handed and the shield on the other arm, then when you engage in melee, you use the first round to loose your shield, so it defends you, then you have a few rounds to whack away, then you have to repeat. Not ideal in some ways, but it can net you a +3 shield bonus to AC for 9K gold (+MW shield), and as you go higher and have more gold, can scale up to +7 AC.
Another option I've seen used successfully is a 1-level dip into Master of Many Styles. You lose BAB and fighter progression, but you can pick up Improved Unarmed Strike and Crane Style. Then you pick up Dodge if you don't already have it, then Crane Wing and eventually Crane Riposte. Also, 3 ranks in Acrobatics (for another +1 AC when fighting defensively) and start fighting defensively. Note that as a 2-handed fighter, or when using weapon and shield, you can't use the deflect one melee attack per round part of the style, but you'd be getting the three feats to get +4 to Ac with a -1 to hit when fighting defensively (+5 AC if you count the Dodge feat). Level 8 take monk and as many levels of Acrobatics as you can, and get Crane Style. Level 9 take fighter and use your feat to take dodge and your fighter bonus feat to take Crane Wing. Level 11 you get Crane Riposte. If you don't mind getting -2 to hit when fighting defensively, you can skip Crane Wing and Crane Riposte. If you're leveling up right now, then taking monk at level 7 is even better because I think you can get to Crane Riposte by level 9. And this option doesn't rely on you getting gold, it's something you can do on your own so long as you have the DEX 13 for Dodge (prerequisite).
Crane style while using a two hander, please don't. Although I've always wanted to see a Duelist wih Crane Style -1 attack for +6 AC when fighting defensively, but that's another topic. The Animated Shield is a pretty neat idea though.
USing Str to AC but with Dex caps (i.e. a pure sub) wouldn't be unbalancing at all.
As it stands now, the fighter with a Str build finds it extremely difficult to take advantage of his class abilities, because doing so requires such high ability scores.
To wit: Maxing out his Dex bonus for light armor (mithral chain shirt) requires a 28 Dex. 28! Just maxing out the benefit of Mithral Full Plate requires a 24 Dex!
That means, if you are starting with the elite array, 15 str, 14 Con, 13 Dex, you cannot take advantage of your own class abilities until you have a +6 Dex booster AND +5 Inherent bonus to a tertiary ability score.
All doing a sub of Str for Dex does is make it easier for the fighter to reach the ability scores where he actually qualifies to use his own class abilities.
That's it. Think about it, and the reality of levelling, and high stats.
In a completely fair world, the Fighter would not get a Dex to AC bonus. He'd just get a +1 Dodge bonus, flat, that was not reliant on him hitting some ability score goal. You know, sort of like what the monk gets.
==Aelryinth
Ring of force shield would help as it a shield bonus and you can still two hand stuff,...
Would this work? The way I read the magic item description is that it "creates" a shield on your arm as a free action. But you still would be using it as a shield in that hand. Am I wrong, and does it just give +2 shield bonus?
The first problem I saw with the idea of str affecting AC is what happens to the big baddies who also would want this feat. The Ancient red dragon goes from an AC of 38 to 52.
At higher levels, it seems all the monsters have high strength, so they would all want that feat, and the game would be completely shut down.
e.g A 3/4 BAB character could never copnsistently be effective against something that high.
USing Str to AC but with Dex caps (i.e. a pure sub) wouldn't be unbalancing at all.
As it stands now, the fighter with a Str build finds it extremely difficult to take advantage of his class abilities, because doing so requires such high ability scores.
To wit: Maxing out his Dex bonus for light armor (mithral chain shirt) requires a 28 Dex. 28! Just maxing out the benefit of Mithral Full Plate requires a 24 Dex!
That means, if you are starting with the elite array, 15 str, 14 Con, 13 Dex, you cannot take advantage of your own class abilities until you have a +6 Dex booster AND +5 Inherent bonus to a tertiary ability score.
All doing a sub of Str for Dex does is make it easier for the fighter to reach the ability scores where he actually qualifies to use his own class abilities.
That's it. Think about it, and the reality of levelling, and high stats.
In a completely fair world, the Fighter would not get a Dex to AC bonus. He'd just get a +1 Dodge bonus, flat, that was not reliant on him hitting some ability score goal. You know, sort of like what the monk gets.
==Aelryinth
The Duelist needs 30 Int to max out its Int-to-AC bonus; should that be done away with as well?
The Monk needs literally infinite Wis to max out its Wis-to-AC bonus; should that be done away with as well?
The Monk needs literally infinite Wis to max out its Wis-to-AC bonus
Given enough 3.5 splatbooks you might be able to hit that cap.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In general melee combat terms, to counter each +1 modifier from Strength the attacker has, a defender needs both a +1 modifier from Dexterity (to counter the increased chance to land a hit), and a +1 modifier to Constitution (to keep the number of actual blows per Hit Die he can take from the attacker the same). So (again, in general combat terms) Strength is already giving you far more than any other single Ability Score. Adding AC as well would make an all-Strength, 'to Hell with anything else', melee build even more of a no-brainer.
Of course, Dervish Dance and Agile kinda' already did that to Dexterity, so who knows what the future holds...
... Weapon Finesse + Agile enchantment is only light weapons so pretty weak all around...
Agile can be added to any weapon usable with Weapon Finesse, not just light weapons. An Agile Rapier for example, can be used to make a Dervish Dancer feel silly for wasting Skill points and Feats... ;)
If the Str bonus to AC was in place of your Dex mod and limited by armor, I think it could work.
If this feat existed, then what would be my incentive as a Fighter to not take it? Thanks to the limitations placed on Dex-to-damage options, two-handed Str-Fighters are very viable and indeed remain the kings of damage output; what's the catch here that makes it at all reasonable to not take this feat? (Slightly lower Reflex save is a joke of a reason.)
USing Str to AC but with Dex caps (i.e. a pure sub) wouldn't be unbalancing at all.
As it stands now, the fighter with a Str build finds it extremely difficult to take advantage of his class abilities, because doing so requires such high ability scores.
To wit: Maxing out his Dex bonus for light armor (mithral chain shirt) requires a 28 Dex. 28! Just maxing out the benefit of Mithral Full Plate requires a 24 Dex!
That means, if you are starting with the elite array, 15 str, 14 Con, 13 Dex, you cannot take advantage of your own class abilities until you have a +6 Dex booster AND +5 Inherent bonus to a tertiary ability score.
All doing a sub of Str for Dex does is make it easier for the fighter to reach the ability scores where he actually qualifies to use his own class abilities.
That's it. Think about it, and the reality of levelling, and high stats.
In a completely fair world, the Fighter would not get a Dex to AC bonus. He'd just get a +1 Dodge bonus, flat, that was not reliant on him hitting some ability score goal. You know, sort of like what the monk gets.
==Aelryinth
The Duelist needs 30 Int to max out its Int-to-AC bonus; should that be done away with as well?
The Monk needs literally infinite Wis to max out its Wis-to-AC bonus; should that be done away with as well?
That's a total straw man.
how bout instead the Monk's Wisdom bonus is capped by, oh, I don't know, his Con bonus. Let's intro more MAD for him. The monk's Wis score is one of his prime attributes...you know, like the Str score is for fighters. How come fighters don't get a buff off their prime stat?
The Duelist ability is actually PRECISELY the same thing as the fighter. Without a godawful Int score, he can't use his class ability. It's just stronger then the fighter's is. However, there's also a point that if you're building a Duelist, you're probably building towards an Int Score in the high 20's at some point, and that bonus IS substantially higher then a Fighter's pure Dex bonus (which, incidentally, it stacks with). That's because it's supposed to sub for better armor and not having a shield (exactly the same things a monk's bonus by level and Wis are supposed to sub for).
If you're worried about Dragons or T-Rexes, just introduce the language : While wearing Medium or Heavy Armor, a Fighter may choose to use his Strength score instead of his Dexterity score for determining his bonus to his Armor Class. This bonus is treated just like his Dex score for all purposes relevant to armor and AC.
And it won't be a problem for creatures with mega Str, unless you slap plate barding on them...and then they get maybe +1 to 3 over their Dex.
Remember that a fighter's dex bonus to AC is always going to be capped by his armor. The problem is, for the fighter, reaching that cap as the levels come due. If Str is the bonus, that's generally not hard, and he'll get the bonus as he levels. Otherwise, he's going to lag behind without severe investment in his Dex score.
==Aelryinth
The problem as i see it for str to ac is why wouldn't all the big strong monsters take it at the upper levels that could be a 10-15 point boost to it's ac putting it into the realms of fighters only hit on a 20.
As a specific bonus in a prestige class i could see it as an option but even then i'd never allow it to effect touch ac's.
If this feat existed, then what would be my incentive as a Fighter to not take it? Thanks to the limitations placed on Dex-to-damage options, two-handed Str-Fighters are very viable and indeed remain the kings of damage output; what's the catch here that makes it at all reasonable to not take this feat? (Slightly lower Reflex save is a joke of a reason.)
So, it'd be sort of like natural spell, then?
Lower Dex save, lower init, lower skill bonuses...but keeps pace with his class abilities, and is still capped by the max Dex to Ac limits?
What is he gaining? +1 to +3 over someone using Dex, maybe...but he's getting to use his class abilities as they come due, instead of waiting until he can get the latest dex buffer.
==Aelryinth
|
|
... Thanks to the limitations placed on Dex-to-damage options, two-handed Str-Fighters are very viable and indeed remain the kings of damage output...
Hmmm... Not sure about that. Even the Agile property's limiting of off-hand damage bonus-via-Dex to half still means a two-weapon fighting type (and if you're a high-Dex melee type then chances are good that's what you are) is putting out one-and-a-half Dexterity bonus to damage per pair of attacks Vs the two-hander's one-and-a-half Strength damage per swing. I guess Power Attack and archetype choice probably make a big difference in the two-hander's favour though. Has anyone run the numbers on this?