I dunno about Ollie starting his own League or joining one...but I would be up for him doing a kind of Outsiders.
That would certainly make much more sense within the context of the show.
My mention of the League was nothing more than an acknowledgment of Silver Age comics GA having been a JLA member, so having Arrow end with an invitiation...nope, Outsiders is better.
I think I read somewhere once that in the comics Roy Harper formed a later team of Outsiders, so that would be another point in favor of Ollie doing that here.
I don't really see a point to the outsiders... or even the League when that's what he's been doing all along. I mean... except for some name recognition, what's the difference between the League or the outsiders and 'Team Arrow'?
He's just crawling with teammates and sidekicks every time we turn around... There wouldn't
The point to Outsiders or the League is that they operate on a bigger stage than just Star City. We'd never need to see them, they'd exist only as an "exit, stage left" for Ollie to close out Arrow.
Bjorn,
I'm pretty sure he's going his Nu 52 route in terms of "I get burned, I get reborn and I might be able to breathe fire."
Finally
Hayta.
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Did anyone else notice that John's stepdad is General Stewart? This ever more strongly sets up Diggle being Earth-1's John Stewart. I'm fully expecting him either getting a green lantern ring at the end of Crisis next season, and/or immediately after Arrow's end at the end of Crisis, for the CW to announce a Green Lantern show.
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Did anyone else notice that John's stepdad is General Stewart? This ever more strongly sets up Diggle being Earth-1's John Stewart. I'm fully expecting him either getting a green lantern ring at the end of Crisis next season, and/or immediately after Arrow's end at the end of Crisis, for the CW to announce a Green Lantern show.
I did notice that, but I'm not expecting a Green Lantern series. My take was a hint that on one or more other Earths, John took his stepdad's name and [in an unrelated event] became a Green Lantern.
So while the CGI wasn't as epic as some things, that ending...ooh boy what an ending. That was Thanos level shizzle right there.
Oh and Earth 2 is probably gone...
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So while the CGI wasn't as epic as some things, that ending...ooh boy what an ending. That was Thanos level shizzle right there.
Oh and Earth 2 is probably gone...
Was that Earth 2? I know Black Siren left Earth 1 but can't remember if she actually went back to Earth 2 or another Earth. Also, when
Team Flash went to Earth 2 originally, wasn't Robert Queen the green arrow there?
Also, when Team Flash went to Earth 2 originally, wasn't Robert Queen the Green Arrow there?
Yes. So he either died, disappeared or retired and Adrian Chase assumed the role since then. That may help explain why the bunker was Laurel's, not Adrian's: he's the newcomer.
Did anyone else catch the mask on the post this time around?
Yeah. In Ollie's Earth-1 timeline it was Deathstroke's, apparently on Earth-2 it was Batman's. "Bruce" was on Earth-2 Barry's speed dial, so like E-1 Ollie, he seems to have survived and left Lian Yu to return home. But before that, did Bruce leave the island to be trained by the League as Al Watwat? I guess we'll never know now.
Damon,
He might have been trained by the League. I mean if he was anything like Bale's Batman...
And yes I'm 99.9% sure that was Earth-2 that just went PPPHHBBBBTTTT....
(My best attempt at doing an anti-matter thingie...)
My guess is Robert probably died or else moved on. Regardless, it's nice to see Laurel doing well back on her Earth...until it's not there..
I called it a year too early, but Doubting Thomas is finally proved wrong. :)
Hey I'm always wrong man. I just happen to be right often too.
Also while it is clear our Lyla does know and has worked with the Monitor...I'm not yet convinced she's like some survivor from another reality as much as "Poof" Monitor appears and like "Help me and I'll help you."
Also while it is clear our Lyla does know and has worked with the Monitor...I'm not yet convinced she's like some survivor from another reality as much as "Poof" Monitor appears and like "Help me and I'll help you."
Oh, no, I don't think she's from another reality. Just that she's working with the Monitor and that her codename made that inevitable.
Fair. I still also think there might be an alternate Layla. But I could be wrong.
So Part 4 had
Dude. Spoilers. Serious spoilers. Some people don't watch until it's available for streaming the next day. Pls. edit if you see this. I've flagged it as well.
But yes, I'm not sure what I was more excited about...
Ezra Miller
showing up or...
Marv Wolfman!!!!
And then of course that last shot in episode 5, complete with appropriate music sting...
Other phenomenal easter eggs as well.
The one thing I am confused about though, except I know I am not supposed to be thinking about it this hard...
The DCEU and Arrowverse Flashes meeting was awesome, but of course suggests they are part of the same multiverse (which, duh) but then of course everything is merged now into Earth Prime. Does that mean Earth Prime is also merged with the DCEU Earth or does it now mean they are thoroughly separate universes?
I thought they did really well... and did more than enough to properly acknowledge and thank Arrow for getting this whole universe started.
Earth Prime
Overall I loved it
Gonna be interesting seeing how the new status quo is for Supergirl cause dang that is a Major revision to her timeline.
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I haven't looked it up yet, but was wondering who played the president at the end. It felt like it should be someone I knew, but couldn't place them.
Eileen Pedde. She'd previously played a doctor on the "Vertigo" episode of Arrow, along with guest starring roles in The X-Files, Millennium, Dark Angel, Smallville, Tru Calling, Stargate SG-1, Kyle XY, iZombie, Supernatural, and as a series regular on Battlestar Galactica and Blood Ties. Plus a lot of non-genre stuff.
What's interesting with the new President is it means there's no longer the jerk who was President on Supergirl, but it's also not the President from the Arrowverse who had been seen on Legends of Tomorrow. Totally different person.
I also wonder if there's a version of Olivia Marsdin on Earth Prime (the former President on Supergirl who was played by Lynda Carter).
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The one thing I am confused about though, except I know I am not supposed to be thinking about it this hard...
I'm curious about this myself. In the comics...
Original recipe Wally -- who was The Flash at the time, having long since succeeded Barry Allen in that role -- was retconned out of existence with the the New 52 reboot in 2011, and replaced with a a Wally who brought a little more ethnic diversity to the DC superhero community. (CW Wally was based on New 52 Wally.) Then with Rebirth in 2016, the old Wally was pulled back into existence alongside the new one.
Seems unlikely this same tack would be taken with Barry & Barry. Just saying there is precedent for multiple Flashes in the same space/time, neither of them visitors.
Here's my entirely unsupported guess: every other set of dopplegangers on the multiple Earths were merged into single entities. But Barry's unique speed-based ability to change his own vibrational frequency interfered with that on a molecular ot even quantum level...his various dopplegangers merged, but down to two rather than down to one.
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It looks like all the current CW shows (including Tyler Hoechlin's upcoming Superman series) have merged on Earth Prime.
Edit: After watching the after credits blurbs Black Lightning may have returned to his own Earth.
Stargirl/Justice Society will be on Earth-2
Titans will remain on Earth-9, while the Doom Patrol has been plane shifted to Earth-21.
HBO Max's Green Lantern series will be set on Earth-12.
Swamp Thing (which I thought had been canceled) takes place on Earth-19.
Kingdom Come is on Earth-96.
I'm unsure where the DCEU movies would be happening as the appearance of Ezra Miller's Flash in the Speed Force means it has to be out there somewhere.
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It looks like all the current CW shows (including Tyler Hoechlin's upcoming Superman series) have merged on Earth Prime.
Edit: After watching the after credits blurbs Black Lightning may have returned to his own Earth.
Stargirl/Justice Society will be on Earth-2
Titans will remain on Earth-9, while the Doom Patrol has been plane shifted to Earth-21.
HBO Max's Green Lantern series will be set on Earth-12.
Swamp Thing (which I thought had been canceled) takes place on Earth-19.
Kingdom Come is on Earth-96.
I'm unsure where the DCEU movies would be happening as the appearance of Ezra Miller's Flash in the Speed Force means it has to be out there somewhere.
Considering that Black Lightning has a seat at the JL table, pretty sure he's now on Earth Prime.
While I haven't watched Titans or Doom Patrol, I heard that the Doom Patrol in Titans and the Doom Patrol in their own series had some inconsistencies, so having the DP series on a separate Earth resolves those and suggests that there are alternate versions of them on Earth-9 in the Titans universe.Swamp Thing might have been cancelled, but still exists as a character on his own Earth, so could come back sometime (see what they did with Constantine for example)
While Kingdom Come is on Earth-96, that's also the same Superman and Earth as the Christopher Reeves and Brandon Routh movies.
Yeah, they didn't say which Earth the DCEU movies are in, but clearly it's in the same multiverse now. The latest I've read on the Flash movie there suggests that it will do a version of Flashpoint and will do some ret-conning to the DCEU movie Earth and history as well, which could be at least indirectly a spin off of the meeting with Earth Prime Barry. It would be super cool if they returned the favor and had a scene in the movie which had Grant Gustin.
While I won't do a spoiler NOW, I'm 99.9 sure...
DQ,
I was under the impression Weather Witch wasn't a meta so much as her TECH was...
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Yes, Weather Witch is a meta-tech user. She'd been an amateur meteorologist; on the day of the Enlightenment, her weather van was hit by a falling S.T.A.R. Labs satellite. A piece of the van was charged with dark matter and became her staff.
Her presence suggests the Enlightenment took place on the merged New World, though, so the same argument applies: there could be more meta-tech users.
Unfortunately something CW has accomplished here is something very much like the aftermath of the comics Crisis in'87: there's now no reliable guide for the viewers as to what happened over the past seven years.
Some of those world shaking events, isolated to one TV show or another, may have played out very differently or not at all. The past few crossovers would certainly have been different, if only because there'd be no need for trans-dimensional tech to accomplish it.
Good stuff in the last two episodes, though. The exterior of the unused, secret S.T.A.R. Labs research facility -- very appropriate, and not at all what I was expecting given the sparse warehouse/high school gym feel of the interior. Also...
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Yes, Weather Witch is a meta-tech user. She'd been an amateur meteorologist; on the day of the Enlightenment, her weather van was hit by a falling S.T.A.R. Labs satellite. A piece of the van was charged with dark matter and became her staff.
Her presence suggests the Enlightenment took place on the merged New World, though, so the same argument applies: there could be more meta-tech users.
Unfortunately something CW has accomplished here is something very much like the aftermath of the comics Crisis in'87: there's now no reliable guide for the viewers as to what happened over the past seven years.
Some of those world shaking events, isolated to one TV show or another, may have played out very differently or not at all. The past few crossovers would certainly have been different, if only because there'd be no need for trans-dimensional tech to accomplish it.
Good stuff in the last two episodes, though. The exterior of the unused, secret S.T.A.R. Labs research facility -- very appropriate, and not at all what I was expecting given the sparse warehouse/high school gym feel of the interior. Also... ** spoiler omitted **
I actually think its great that they have all these changes which the viewers (and the main characters) don't know. It adds some fresh life to the older series to re-discover what their past is, and how things changed.
If the CW is smart, they'll put a "summary of events" with a status quo update on their website. Viewers don't feel lost and they get ad revenue. Win win.
If the CW is smart, they'll put a "summary of events" with a status quo update on their website. Viewers don't feel lost and they get ad revenue. Win win.
That would be good, but I'd be very surprised if they'd made many firm ret-continuity decisions up front beyond what they've already shown. It could limit some storytelling going forward.
Superhero comics, of course, were never ones to let established continuity get in the way of what [they hoped would be received as] a good story. But in that one area I seem to be the eternal optimist. (For almost anything else, that description would cause a spit take from anyone who knows me.)
Certain characters remember the world differently than most of the population. Will that change over time? Will they be strangers in their own lives, like amnesiacs who have to relearn their own history? Will they remember what amounts to two timelines? () I'll be interested to see how this is addressed, or even if it's addressed beyond the next couple of episodes.
10 billion people on Earth now...except that somehow they've always been there...unless 3 billion people were merged with their doppelgangers, as some speculated...in which case, does that really count as saving 3 billion people?
I don't think there was any indication that doppelgangers merged, and there would seem to be less rationale for it now since
Makes sense that Stargirl is on the new Earth-2, but I think I'd have enjoyed a chronally displaced Earth-2, decades behind Earth Prime, for more JSA. Didn't get enough of it in Legends, especially as the roster wasn't my old familiar JSA. But, hey, I'm happy to have Earth-2 at all, and looking forward to Stargirl.
Damon,
I think the merger of dopplegangers only occurred on the Earths that were directly involved in Crisis IE Earth-1, Earth-38 and whatever Earth Black Lightning's on. The rest of the multiverse thingie might be entirely different. At least that's my take...
Judging from the Supergirl promo, Lena still remembers the old timeline (much to Lex's surprise). Maybe it's her connection to Lex that allows for that, or maybe it's a High Intellect thing (depends on what Brainy remembers I guess)
Most people probably only remember the new timeline
Greylurker: In the comic version of COIE, 50 heroes went to the Dawn of Time and when it was all over, only they remembered the old multiverse. So it makes sense that only the paragons should remember it, but evidently exceptions are already being introduced.
That, too, is in a way faithful to the original comic experience. Other DC writers didn't want to be bound by Wolfman's wrap up, so they began ignoring it almost immediately.
Thomas: Yes, I suppose if any merging took place it would make sense that it was only necessary on the Earths that became Earth Prime.
Joel: Hmm, I hadn't heard about Stargirl having two time periods. Maybe I will get, if not my classic JSA, at least some old All-Star Squadron.
Unrelated to all of the above, two random CW plot elements just collided in my head: dark matter and new multiverse. What if, down the road, another crossover introduces the Dark Multiverse that DC brought into the comics in 2017? Instead of the Batman Who Laughs, Kate Kane might have to confront her dark Carrollian doppelganger, the Bat Hatter.
I don't think there's any indication that Earth Prime has 10 billion people. The people who were saved on Earth-38 were still killed when original Earth-1 was destroyed (ultimately, it was a fruitless endeavor to try to save them. Sometimes that happens. The real point of Ollie sacrificing himself was putting him on the path to becoming the Spectre). And yes, I think the doppelgangers for the most part have merged and/or some people just don't exist in the new world. For example, there is no living Laurel Lance in any form for example, or Sara wouldn't have been all "nobody knows the old me any more" (And of *course* the new Earth created by Ollie wouldn't have one). We also have an entirely new/different President of the United States (maybe the President of Earth-1 and of Earth-38 exist in some form but if we don't see them, they may as well not exist).
The IMPORTANT thing about the creation of Earth Prime is now Maggie Sawyer lives in the same Earth as Kate Kane, and that means we can hopefully soon say goodbye to Sophie Moore as a potential long term love interest for Kate.
Re Stargirl: the trailer has shown clips of Starman so it makes sense we'll see of some of the old JSA as well.
Judging from the Supergirl promo, Lena still remembers the old timeline (much to Lex's surprise). Maybe it's her connection to Lex that allows for that, or maybe it's a High Intellect thing (depends on what Brainy remembers I guess)
Or for some reason, J'onn also gave her the memory update. I'm not sure why he would (maybe to also loop her in on Lex's treachery), but that's also possible.
Or for some reason, J'onn also gave her the memory update. I'm not sure why he would (maybe to also loop her in on Lex's treachery), but that's also possible.
Because the very last thing anyone needs is Lena eventually finding out that multiple people around her have been keeping yet another big secret?
Fair!!
Honestly I'm not sure I'm ready to have Maggie back after she left poor Alex at the altar. But eh.
In any case I do think Laurel exists...some how. If only because I've seen photo shots of her and the promo for the next to last episode of Arrow.
Honestly I'm not sure I'm ready to have Maggie back after she left poor Alex at the altar. But eh.
But she's Kate's canon love interest and even with jilting Alex, she's still a million times better person than Sophie. (Although Sophie was least-terrible this past episode.)
(IIRC the meta-reason Maggie left was because the actress had other gigs. But the new universe could also allow them to re-cast if need be. Heck, maybe on Earth Prime, Maggie never jilted Alex?)
In any case I do think Laurel exists...some how. If only because I've seen photo shots of her and the promo for the next to last episode of Arrow.
If that's the case, Sara's mopey dialogue about "I have no one left who knew the old me" makes no f$$@ing sense. But then Arrow has always never given the time and attention the Lance family relationships deserved.
I know Katie Cassidy is supposed to be in the potential "Canaries" spinoff. (Which is being backdoor piloted tonight, I think.) More will be explained then, I guess.
But if Sara Lance is running around thinking she has no sister when she does, I am going to be f%&*ing pissed off.
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In any case I do think Laurel exists...some how. If only because I've seen photo shots of her and the promo for the next to last episode of Arrow.If that's the case, Sara's mopey dialogue about "I have no one left who knew the old me" makes no f$$@ing sense. But then Arrow has always never given the time and attention the Lance family relationships deserved.
I know Katie Cassidy is supposed to be in the potential "Canaries" spinoff. (Which is being backdoor piloted tonight, I think.) More will be explained then, I guess.
But if Sara Lance is running around thinking she has no sister when she does, I am going to be f%!*ing pissed off.
I'm pretty sure that Sara assumed that Laurel was still the Earth-2 Laurel, and not her actual sister who died. The Paragons still don't really know how Earth Prime works, and for that matter, the audience doesn't know what version of Laurel exists. It's certainly possible that Laurel is now the original Laurel who didn't die, and Sara will learn her sister is back. I'm still expecting it to be closer to the Earth-2 version (I mean there still is an Earth-2 so who know?!)