Not sure how I feel about the way the Flash/Green Arrow swap is apparently being handled in this year's "Elseworlds" crossover.
I like the idea of a swap, but based on the one preview I've seen, this may be more along the lines of Here Comes Mister Jordan/Heaven Can Wait than any alternate universe or even Elseworlds comic tale I've seen.
Because it doesn't appear that Oliver Queen becomes the Flash. It appears that in the Elseworld, the face and form we know as Oliver Queen -- on more than one Earth -- instead has the name Barry Allen. So Ollie's physical form is based in Central City, has a relationship with Iris, etc.
The preview also strongly suggests that Ollie's-body-with-Barry's-name is very confused by all this, so presumably thinks of himself as Ollie/Arrow.
I'll reserve judgment until I see it, but I think I'd have preferred that Oliver become the Flash under his own name.
Damon,
I think the point you might be missing is that Psycho-Pirate might be involved and thus he might be creating illusions as much as realities.
Okay, I did miss that. Where should I have seen it?
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Looks like an Arkhamn Asylum employee, John Deegan will be responsible for the swapping. I don't have the deep DC universe knowledge to know who that is, but from a bit of research I wonder if he's John Dee/Doctor Destiny? Sounds like there was a similar plot with Superman/Batman they might be drawing upon.
Not sure he's doing that so much as he's got Psycho-pirate's mask.
Green,
I've always believed that any time line future people come from change when they come back to the past. While I think your theory makes a certain level of consistent sense, I'm not convinced that is something Arrow does.
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Although Arrow did gender swap John's kid as a consequence of Flashpoint, I don't see time travel being incorporated into the show more directly than that.
OTOH, I am interested to see how ARGUS Director Lyla Michaels (codename: Harbinger) will fit into this year's crossover and whether she will have any special interaction with the Monitor.
If not this year, then next, since it's been said that this year's crossover sets up next year's. That suggests to me a merging of Earths a la Crisis on Infinite Earths...but it would be happening five years too soon. XSpoint didn't move that timeline; we've seen the future paper since then. Maybe something about Elseworlds will advance the Crisis?
Damon,
I'm not convinced there will be a Crisis, but I do think maybe that the Monitor we see will turn into Mandrakk the Dark Monitor. But I could be wrong. I also don't think Lyla will have an impact on that.
Green, well it's not hard to coin it when it's clear who's fault it might be for slight changes in the timeline versus Flashpoint breaking EVERYTHING!
Well, having a character named Lyla Michaels/Harbinger has to pay off at some point, and if it's not during Crisis, it should at least be connected to the Monitor.
Damon,
Your faith is misplaced I think if you think the CW writers are going to do that... So far they've barely used Firestorm RIGHT.
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Yeah firestorm only transmuted what like 3 times? then they removed him. very sad about that.
Yeah you think if superman had to be 2 people to transform into superman they would ever let each other out of sight from each other?
Hmm did I just accidentally reference red and blue superman?
Firestorm was gimped because a fully powered Firestorm makes everything too easy.
Not sure what that has to do with giving Lyla a significant role in a Crisis story (whether that's this year or next.)
A fully powered Firestorm wouldn't have made things easy because it's a show about TIME TRAVEL, not altering structures.
As for what that has to do with Lyla, I just don't think if they're going gimp Firestorm, they would empower Lyla.
Ah. No, they don't have to empower Lyla, just tie her to the Monitor somehow for the duration of the crossover. Or maybe he invests her with temporary power, the way Galactus gives power to his heralds.
I don't know, I'm just hanging onto the name. Maybe it's been a meaningless name drop all along, like Jean Loring.
Trust me Damon, it's a meaningless name drop in much the same way Bruce Wayne got dropped.
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Hard to transmute when half of you is on the jumpship and the other half is in the field.
Or half of you is in the field and the other half is in the lab.
Or... any other excuse because the show doesn't have the budget for Firestorm but put him on the show anyway.
Man... I HATED the way they did in the last season.
Martin: I have a family now and would really like to retire and see them....
Jax: But I want to keep being a time traveling super hero!!!
Martin: Ok... I'll spend all season trying to fix it so you can be firestorm on your own... until I'm gunned down and die
Jax: Y'know... I think I should probably retire....
UGHHHH!H!!!! If they had just retired from the start... they MAY still be alive for guest spots and crossovers... just saying!!!
Joel,
Not as many Vandal Savage I'm assuming. But I could be wrong. But yes Emiko Queen is now on Arrowverse terms! :D
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I feel like they were insulting us. Penguin, Riddler, Clayface, Freeze, Scarecrow, Poison Ivy, and an inmate escape - when we know that none of those characters can actually appear on screen.
Where have we heard this before. Batman is real. Batman was around for years but we never saw him. Now he's been gone for years and a female Bat-adjacent character(s) are taking his place. Because it worked so well the last time.
"John, why aren't you wearing your ring?"
So, I guess we know who they'll cast to play Lynn's brother over on black lightning.Was it too much to hope for that they would let the Diaz thing end?
I don't think it's Black Lightning. I think it's green lantern.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I feel like they were insulting us. Penguin, Riddler, Clayface, Freeze, Scarecrow, Poison Ivy, and an inmate escape - when we know that none of those characters can actually appear on screen.
Where have we heard this before. Batman is real. Batman was around for years but we never saw him. Now he's been gone for years and a female Bat-adjacent character(s) are taking his place. Because it worked so well the last time.
"John, why aren't you wearing your ring?"
So, I guess we know who they'll cast to play Lynn's brother over on black lightning.Was it too much to hope for that they would let the Diaz thing end?
I wasn't insulted at all. I felt it was a good way to show that all of those villains exist in world, even though they didn't appear in the episode (except for Mrs. Freize). It's unclear which of them could appear on the future Batwoman show - especially as the Gotham tv show is about to have its final season. They certainly won't be using all of those characters in the movies (if they even get their act together on a next Batman movie anytime soon - and the last word there was that the villain would be Deathstroke). Considering how many of them were in the Gotham TV show, I don't see why most or all of them couldn't be in Batwoman.
I'm also pretty sure this is the first time we've heard Batman was real on Earth-1. Rip obliquely mentioned him in Legends of Tomorrow, but it wasn't clear what timeline that was from, and Supergirl mentioned him, but that was on her Earth. Also, if Oliver Queen thought he was an urban legend, I don't see that as a problem - Batman is clearly much better at staying in the shadows than Green Arrow.
As for Diaz, as a fun cameo in a twisted alternate reality, I don't see why this would bother anyone, regardless of their take on him in the main continuity.
I was stoked to see son of Deathstroke show up though, reminding viewers that he's around. I'm guessing we'll see him in a non-cameo role later this season.
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I'm totally on board with "Batman was better at being a ninja than Green Arrow" Especially because this back-door opened to one of the better Bat-family peoples. Kane Kane (in her current form) is a total bad ass and I think Ruby Rose was a great Kate. Even if her accent needed work.
Oh and no hoarseness for her Batwoman either! Plus the fact I totally can friend-ship Kara and Kate as the new World's finest. :)
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I loved the "get out". Loved it.
"She's just like Batman."
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Yep, I hate Diaz. Less as a person or a specific character, than as a character concept. He's super powerful without superpowers and has no real weaknesses.
* (Independently Powerful) He gives power to his organization, sometimes apparently through sheer force of will and charisma alone, rather than drawing power from it. (cf. Lex Luthor, Dr. Doom, etc. This isn't true for Ras al Ghul, for example, who does derive influence and power from the League of Assassins.)
* (Irresistable Force) He can bribe or coerce anyone and everyone he wants. He's never thwarted by an 'untouchable' target.
* (Uncontainable) If captured, he can be locked up for a while, but will eventually break or bribe his way out. By itself, this is a common trait of comic book villains. By itself, it could be forgiven.
* (Unkillable) Can withstand any amount of physical punishment and come back fully healed from any injury. Dude might as well be Wolverine.
* (No Training Needed) Yes, he's been through the school of hard knocks, but there has never been any indication he maintains physical training. And yet he routinely fights world class martial artists to a standstill or beats them, hand to hand.
Unkillable: Doesn't this apply to just about everyone in the show?
Fair point. I mean, sure, you do have to expect more of that sort of thing when your show includes a Lazarus pit (or two), and heroes should as a rule be less expendable than villains.
But it would have been preferable in some ways if some survivors retained permanent damage: Felicity's spinal injury, John's nerve damage, Thea's negative reaction to her experience with the Lazarus pit, Rene's beatdown. All temporary, even if one did require magic to fix*. At present the only "real" casualties on Arrow are Laurel and Quentin. And Laurel was replaced by Laurel, negating that "loss."
*Which reminds me: before Diaz came along I was similarly sick of Damien Darkh.
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*Which reminds me: before Diaz came along I was similarly sick of Damien Darkh.
I cut some slack to Darkh since he actually DOES have powers. And he's got charisma for days. He was a lot of fun to watch even if he dragged on and on as a main villain.
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He chewed up more scenes than my puppy chewed up socks! (but in less annoying way for Neal.)
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With a different actor it could have been bad, but he made the role something good. And became great after joining Legends^^
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Can we send the brat back to boarding school? The last thing this show needs is more Angst.
I think its about time to retire this one or drastically change things up. I always felt it would be more interesting making Oliver deal with super powered enemies.
I heard it might be getting cancelled. anyone heard anything similar? Also legends which would be kind of sad.
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Arrow And Legends Of Tomorrow May End After Their Next Seasons
Right now it's all speculation.
I'd be fine with Legends ending after Crisis. I've enjoyed some of the individual character arcs, but not so much the gradual slide from "protect the timeline against supervillains (in our own unconventional way)" to "fix all the damage we caused to the timeline" to "magical creature of the week needs to be sent to Hell."
Charmed, Legacies and Supernatural are all on the CW, right? What's the point of shifting Legends into that group? (It doesn't help the latest season that I was never much of a Constantine fan, in the comics or the CW-verse.)
Arrow...I have more mixed feelings about. I found the constant flashback format a it tiresome after a while (and groaned when the flash forwards started); I never liked the idea that a serial killer vigilante could simply decide to stop killing after a while and have practically everyone -- police and DA included -- fully accept him as a hero, handwaving all that earlier murder stuff because he promised not to do it again; and Ollie's Buffyesque flip-flopping between "I have to do this alone, it's too dangerous" and "I can't do this alone, you guys are my team" had me screaming internally for Ollie to just make a damn decision and stick to it already.
But I give the show props because it's earlu success is what allowed the rest of the CW-verse to exist. And again, I really enjoyed some of the character arcs, most recently Earth-2 Laurel's, because of the nuance. She didn't just "reform" in between seasons.
I guess I'd be okay with Arrow ending after next season but I'd want it to come to some sort of halfway hopeful conclusion or transition into something bigger offstage. I have no idea what that would look like, though. Smallville and Gotham, being prequel stories, both have iconic moments they can build to. Arrow, not so much. Can't really have Ollie get a phone call in the final episode inviting him to be a founding member of a new team of established heroes, a sort of "Justice League", if none of the continuing CW shows -- especially Flash acknowledge the existence of such a group.
While I like Constantine, I'm not convinced of the validity of having a time ship to fix things instead of magic.
As for Arrow, I dunno about Ollie starting his own League or joining one...but I would be up for him doing a kind of Outsiders.