Here are the rules:
1. Character must be tiny sized.
2. Character must either be Fey or have a strong relation to Fey.
3. Character must be a martial character. That means no spell casters.
4. The character must do battle in his base (Tiny) form, no shape shifters here. That defeats the purpose of the challenge.
Obviously monster races have to be allowed for being able to play a Tiny sized critter. I'm thinking that the strongest fit here would be for a Pixie but I would rather like to keep the racial HD down. For that reason a Brownie might be better. Assume that each HD costs 1 level.
I know I'm likely to get a lot of Rogue based suggestions but I'd rather that the character actually be more martially bent. Perhaps going into Duelist?
Assume a 20 point build. All Paizo books allowed, no 3rd party.
Two questions... build to what level? And is the Gunslinger allowed?
agile and weapon finesse could go a long way in these builds, if gunslinger is out of the question.
Also, for say, the Brownie... how do you determine its racial modifiers on ability scores? Just looking at that creature specifically, it would be like a 40 point buy to get its stats where they are lol
Well my first instinct was a Ninja w/ poisoned arrows, or something of the sort, but if you're leaning against that you could probably accomplish the same thing with a Ranger.
And if you're going for melee martial... I dunno. Dervish Dance is probably what you're looking for, since the Strength penalties will be so huge. Maybe Dervish Dance, Weapon Finesse, and a tiny Elven Curve Blade?
Two questions... build to what level? And is the Gunslinger allowed?
The Gunslinger is not a melee class. It's a ranged attack class.
Two questions... build to what level? And is the Gunslinger allowed?The Gunslinger is not a melee class. It's a ranged attack class.
To clarify, the challenge stated 'martial,' Not 'melee'.
But I too think Gunslinger would kind of cheapen the challenge.
Ok i've used the race guide to make what i think is a reasonable fey pc race
Type Fey 2 rp
Size Tiny 4 rp
Speed 30 0 rp
Abilities 0 rp
+2 str +2 wis -2 cha -----
Standard Langs 0 rp
Natural Armor 1 rp
Flexible Bonus Feat 4 rp
Seabharie (she-VAR-ee) are a warror bread of fairies somewhat stronger and more aware than most of their kin. Being fey creatures they, like most other fey, enjoy playing games as well as tricks on people but theirs tend to be somewhat more physical in nature and frequently violent.
They appear as humanoid Rhinoceros beetles but with human-like faces.
Racial abilites
+2 dex +2 cha -2 wis
+1 natural Armor
Low Light Vision
Bonus Feat
Languages Sylvan, Common and can choose Elven, Gnomish, Aklo, Grippli, Goblin, Draconic, and Celestial
And here is a martial charater based on it
16 Str 10 points
16 Dex 5 points
14 Con 5 points
10 Int 0 points
14 Wis 2 points
06 Cha -2 points
Hp 13 (+2 con +1 favored) Ac 22 (+6 armor +3 dex +2 size +1 nat)
Skills: 6 Perception 1(6), Survival 1 (6), Fly 1 (9= +4 size -2 armor), + 3 others
Traits: Armor Expert + campaign trait
Feats Power Attack, Quick Draw
Weapons Lucerne Hammer + 5 1d8 +7 damage or Chakram +6 1d4+3
Gear: Breast Plate (100) Lucerne Hammer (15), 10 Chakram (10) 50 gold remaining
Lvl 2 get rapid shot and a mighty +3 Long Comp bow.
Lvl 3 get Deadly Aim
The Lucerne hammer lets him attack outside his space with effective damage and using the basic switch hitter rules makes him effective at range despite the d4 long bow damage he recieves.
I've made an advanced version of the race to add more fey features
Type Fey 2 rp
Size Tiny 4 rp
Speed 30 0 rp
Abilities 0 rp
+2 str +2 wis -2 cha -----
Standard Langs 0 rp
Fae Damage Reduction 3 rp
Natural Armor 1 rp
Flexible Bonus Feat 4 rp
Fly Speed 50 (Ave) 8 rp
Seabharie (she-VAR-ee) are a warror bread of fairies somewhat stronger and more aware than most of their kin. Being fey creatures they, like most other fey, enjoy playing games as well as tricks on people but theirs tend to be somewhat more physical in nature and frequently violent.
They appear as humanoid Rhinoceros beetles but with human-like faces.
Racial abilites
Speed 30 Fly 50 (avarage)
+2 dex +2 cha -2 wis
+1 natural Armor
Dr 5/cold iron
Low Light Vision
Bonus Feat
Languages Sylvan, Common and can choose Elven, Gnomish, Aklo, Grippli, Goblin, Draconic, and Celestial
Isn't anyone going to suggest mounted combat?
Remember that tiny creatures do not threaten adjacent spaces. You'll need a reach weapon to be able to attack normally, or you'll take AoOs moving into your opponent's square to attack.
Two questions... build to what level? And is the Gunslinger allowed?
Full build, but you don't need to give details at every level.
Well, Gunslinger I suppose is allowed as I suppose that it is "martial" but I was hoping for a melee build. Something that breaks preconceptions about what the creature excels at. Same kinda goes for mounted builds for that matter.Also, sometimes it is good to trigger AoOs so long as they do not connect. Likely by means of a high AC, Mobility and Panther Style or similar feats. But what am I giving you all suggestions for, I wanna see what YOU all come up with. ;) Maybe later I'll post some of my own ideas.
Oh, also in answer to the question about how you figure ability modifiers for non standard races: If their score is odd give them -1 and take that modifier. If their score is even then use that modifier. So if they have a 13 then the race gets a +2 to that stat. If they have a 14 then that race gets a +2 to that stat. At least that is how it was done in 3.x. Pretty sure that carries over fairly well in Pathfinder.
Bertious: I do not have access to the race guide. I do wonder about the race you created though. Do the stat modifiers you gave include size modifiers for being Tiny?
Ah, I like that suggestion, BBT. Begs the question about reach on a Tiny sized whip again though, huh? Also if it provokes to attack with the whip thats still not all bad, right?
Bertious: I do not have access to the race guide. I do wonder about the race you created though. Do the stat modifiers you gave include size modifiers for being Tiny?
In the races guide tiny only gives -2 str +2 dex so as i gave them +2 str it balances out to no modifier.leaving them at +2 +2 -2 so same as most races
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lvl 1 Gunslinger brownie (*)
STR 8
DEX 20
CON 12
INT 13
WIS 16
CHA 10
HP 11, Init +4
AC 18 (leather + size +dex)+dodge
CMD 12 CMB 7
Musket: +8 1d8(20x4)
speed: 20"
size tiny: 2.5*2.5 reach =0
skills craft (gun) , perception, survival, climb, bluff
deeds: gunslinger dodge
feat : Dodge
special: fey resist DR5/cold iron
(*) I had to build up the brownie race based on the advanced race guide.
So I gave him 10pt that was used as follows
fey type +2
tiny +4
abilities , flexible +2
slow -1
fey resist +3
@Kellig Thats 12 points :D Also as i recall any advanced abilities (fey resist) makes it an advanced race.
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Gunslinger is not melee.
Halflings are not Fey.
Man! Good thing all he asked for was a strong relation to fey. I'm glad you're around to help the OP filter his posts. =P
-Cross (A halfling with a strong relation to fey SEEMs like one of them thar roleplay things. Heck, you could say he's getting the belt of reduce person to romance a pixie mistress!)
P.S. Can I point out the rest of the advantages of my build? Giant DPR, Great AC, only dependent on one stat (dex), Lunge lets you attack from adjacent?
In Golarion, Gnomes have a strong relation to Fey, but Halflings do not.
My statement was to help keep to the OP's desires, not hurt your feelings.
Text poorly displays intent, try not to be so sensitive.
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@Kellig Thats 12 points :D Also as i recall any advanced abilities (fey resist) makes it an advanced race.
12? I still count 10. Anyway for the advanced race. I cannot say. I was looking for something related to fey :-)
gunslinger is martial as asked in the first message . Unfortunately it took me 3 hours to finish my post :-)So I didn't see the comment of Lune
@Kellig Thats 12 points :D Also as i recall any advanced abilities (fey resist) makes it an advanced race.12? I still count 10. Anyway for the advanced race. I cannot say. I was looking for something related to fey :-)
gunslinger is martial as asked in the first message . Unfortunately it took me 3 hours to finish my post :-)So I didn't see the comment of Lune
Lol sorry my brain doesn't seem to work :P it is 10
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Ranged would be awesome, but melee ? The problem here is that the character has no reach at all, ie must be in the same square as the creature he wants to hit (barring extra reach gained through specific build).
Basically this character will :
1) provoke AoO when he enters his enemy's square to attack it
2) be unable to make any AoO (as he does not threaten any square except the one he is in)
There are ways around the first problem (Vanish, high AC and CMD).
But I think the second part is what makes such a melee character really subpar.
Also why my build uses a lucerne hammer.
Isn't anyone going to suggest mounted combat?
But of course. This was the first thing I thought of.
I was thinking Cavalier. I had, at one point, wanted to make a Gnome with a permanent Reduce Person riding a Goat. If you can't get a mount with the class feature to fit the size, Eldrich Heritage for a Familiar.
Your lance has reach, meaning you threaten as a small character. You can charge in with the mounted feats and deal some wicked damage... given the restrictions. The challenge ability also helps to boost your damage output.
If you can actually get the strength high enough to take power attack, do it. Otherwise spend your gold on oils to enhance your weapon, or just buy a good weapon when you can.
Dirty trick master! Pixie that's a monk, with the Improved and Greater versions of Trip and Dirty Trick, multiclassed with Wizard or Sorc for a couple levels to get True Strike and Lesser Invisibility!
Something tiny, that flies, can turn invisible, and get +20 on their next strike!!!
**EDIT***
I have an alchemist build for this somewhere, no multiclassing necessary as the Formulae allow for extracts of both those spells (Greater Invis also at later levels), plus BOMBS!
Ok i've used the race guide to make what i think is a reasonable fey pc race
** spoiler omitted **
And here is a martial charater based on it
** spoiler omitted **I've made an advanced version of the race to add more fey features
** spoiler omitted **...
How are you buying a +3 breastplate at 1st level? The bonus for a Tiny breastplate is +3.
take a tiny race and then go dawnflower dervish into duelist. That would give a +8 to armor on that AoO, combined with your already obnoxious dexterity.... I think that would work well, let me figure out the stats.
fey 2
tiny 4
speed normal (0)
ability standard (0) dex 2 charisma 2 wisdom -2
standard language (0)
illusion resistance (1)
lucky, greater (4)
20 point buy would be...
str 10 (2)
dex 16 (10)+4= 20
con 14 (5)
int 14 (5)
wis 7 (-4)
cha 12 (2)+2= 14
at 11th level you'd have three levels in duelist. with a plus 2 int item, you would get plus 3 to armor. everything would go into dex... maye one point into wisdom so you suck at saving less. you would also have plus eight to AoO armor class.
probably have around 28 dex at level 11.
ac would be 10+7(celestial chain)+9 dex+3 int+8 mobility and greater mobility+1 size...? maybe some +2 from other sources= 40 ac at eleventh level (im sure somebody could trick this out further)
damage with +2? courageous weapon... +6 battle dance +3 duelist level +2 arcane strike +9 dex +2 weapon 1D6+22 to hit = 26/21/18
Im sure there is more that could be done. I would probably only take three levels in duelist for the greater mobility special feature and then head back into dervish.
1 cleric (shelyn)2 Ranger (two handed weapon style)- tiny sized creature.
Feats
1. Channel Smite
3. Guided Hand
(bonus) Power Attack
You don't need a high strength score, just crank Wisdom instead. Keep going Ranger for Martial prowess as well as some Wisdom based casting. This could also work for a 4 paladin / 2 ranger- go back to paladin after build as well.
The whip build might be better, but this is an option.
How are you buying a +3 breastplate at 1st level? The bonus for a Tiny breastplate is +3.Ok i've used the race guide to make what i think is a reasonable fey pc race
** spoiler omitted **
And here is a martial charater based on it
** spoiler omitted **I've made an advanced version of the race to add more fey features
** spoiler omitted **...
Looks like a standard 100 gp breastplate to me. Being tiny-sized doesn't cut down on benefits provided by armor.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Looks like a standard 100 gp breastplate to me. Being tiny-sized doesn't cut down on benefits provided by armor.How are you buying a +3 breastplate at 1st level? The bonus for a Tiny breastplate is +3.Ok i've used the race guide to make what i think is a reasonable fey pc race
** spoiler omitted **
And here is a martial charater based on it
** spoiler omitted **I've made an advanced version of the race to add more fey features
** spoiler omitted **...
Actully, it does:
Table: Armor for Unusual Creatures
Size Humanoid Nonhumanoid
Cost Weight Cost Weight
Tiny or smaller* ×1/2 ×1/10 ×1 ×1/10
Small ×1 ×1/2 ×2 ×1/2
Medium ×1 ×1 ×2 ×1
Large ×2 ×2 ×4 ×2
Huge ×4 ×5 ×8 ×5
Gargantuan ×8 ×8 ×16 ×8
Colossal ×16 ×12 ×32 ×12
* Divide armor bonus by 2.
Look at the part with the star there. Tiny or smaller armor gives half its normal armor bonus. I only learned this about a month ago, so don't feel bad, it's one of those hidden gems of Pathfinder that usually you don't find out about until someone points it out to you.
oops, forgot about the scimitar being tiny. oh well, few less points there.
Looks like a standard 100 gp breastplate to me. Being tiny-sized doesn't cut down on benefits provided by armor.How are you buying a +3 breastplate at 1st level? The bonus for a Tiny breastplate is +3.Ok i've used the race guide to make what i think is a reasonable fey pc race
** spoiler omitted **
And here is a martial charater based on it
** spoiler omitted **I've made an advanced version of the race to add more fey features
** spoiler omitted **...Actully, it does:
Table: Armor for Unusual Creatures
Size Humanoid Nonhumanoid
Cost Weight Cost Weight
Tiny or smaller* ×1/2 ×1/10 ×1 ×1/10
Small ×1 ×1/2 ×2 ×1/2
Medium ×1 ×1 ×2 ×1
Large ×2 ×2 ×4 ×2
Huge ×4 ×5 ×8 ×5
Gargantuan ×8 ×8 ×16 ×8
Colossal ×16 ×12 ×32 ×12
* Divide armor bonus by 2.Look at the part with the star there. Tiny or smaller armor gives half its normal armor bonus. I only learned this about a month ago, so don't feel bad, it's one of those hidden gems of Pathfinder that usually you don't find out about until someone points it out to you.
Huh. I never noticed that before. My bad.
I likewise came to suggest a halfling with permanent reduce person and risky striker. Here's my Halfling, 25 PB.
http://www.dndsheets.net/view.php?id=38798
His focus is on taking a tactical position and being untouchable, and giving his adjacent allies +4 Luck to AC isn't shabby either. Sub something out for Risky Striker and give him Reduce Person.
Or build a more offense version of the same. Risky Striker is very good when you can proc it nearly all the time.