it's true, my saturday group with Weekly William isn't the most tactically inclined. the DM uses all sorts of synergies that my fellow individualistic players don't see because they are so closed minded and refuse to buy the books. they are often stuck in a rut and refuse my offers to help. out of 10 players, 7 or more usually have a more martial focus and can't reach the damage numbers listed on these forums.
things i had to do.
i had to dumb myself down drastically to not outshine the group. this usually means delaying my progression by multiclassing and i still outshine the group's martials.
take support roles and enhance teammates, it's very rare i get to play a damage dealer and the groups definition of support tends to be fireballing sorcerer or healing cleric. if i cast haste, they don't realize that the extra attack made them that much better.
if i do somehow build a character around damage, i have to deliberately build in a defensive flaw elsewhere the group can poke fun at. usually daily resources.
the group seems adverse to anything but the most mindless of tactics, they rush headlong like leeroy jenkins and only survive due to DM coddling.
it takes the whole group of 10 players to do what a group of 6 players can do far more effectively
the group tracks kill count, wealth and all sorts of personal vanity achievements for bragging rights upon one another and engages in the path of slaughter for the motive of XP and Wealth.
individual members complain if their kill is stolen.
out of 10 players, we usually never have more than 1 or 2 dedicated casters.
not much is understood beyond Zurg Rushing. so tactics are rather mindless.
out of 1o players, we only have 3 optimizers (including myself) and our optimization strategies are often foiled by fiat.
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....
Admitting it is the first step!
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Sounds like a band of orcs.
Abandon group! Abandon group!
(seriously. find another group. i think that one is a lost cause)
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Even if this seems to be the board's number one go-to as a response, I think it's really fitting here: consider finding a different group.
You've got a serious conflict of playstyles here and it's not going to end well. You already show signs of resenting this group. You're clearly frustrated with the way 7 of your 10 allies have fun. This is not the group for you.
And I'm sorry to say this, but the group doesn't need help; you do. It sounds like just about everyone here (including the DM) is on the same page. You however seem to be trying to mold the game into something you'd prefer. This is not an insult or any sort of criticism. You're in a group that's down with the classic Kick in the Door style gaming, and it's clearly not your thing.
This leaves you with really three options: change your expectations of the game, leave the group, or chat up your two "optimizing" allies and see if you can get a new group going with a mindset similar to what you're expecting.
Good luck and happy gaming! I look forward to hearing how all this plays out.
10 Players??!!! As in... 10 Players sitting around a table at the same time waiting for their turn? How can you stand that! I can barely stand having 5 or 6 players (plus GM).
I suggest you find a smaller (and smarter) group to play with.
I think you should do your serious gaming with the other 2 optimizers and the gm if he is up for it, and play the less optimized game as a way to hang out with friends, be goofy with it, play the biggest dumbest half orc of the group and optimize so u can brag about having the most kill count and treasure of the lot, play the half orc king and wear a crown to show you are the supreme leader of the band, make frequent challenges to them and offer the crown to the winner. Have fun with it
I think you should do your serious gaming with the other 2 optimizers and the gm if he is up for it, and play the less optimized game as a way to hang out with friends, be goofy with it, play the biggest dumbest half orc of the group and optimize so u can brag about having the most kill count and treasure of the lot, play the half orc king and wear a crown to show you are the supreme leader of the band, make frequent challenges to them and offer the crown to the winner. Have fun with it
well i am on friendly terms with most of the group. i guess i could take a more supporting role and help them, and i do have the occasional urge to play a martial character, which gets shot down when 75% or more of the group is already martial.
yes, we have 10 players each taking a turn.
Seriously, go super buffer. Bard does this well.
For awesome factor, name him Rockso.
Rockso the Rock & Roll Jester; and he likes to smoke Pesh.
Rockso the Rock & Roll Jester; and he likes to smoke Pesh.Seriously, go super buffer. Bard does this well.
For awesome factor, name him Rockso.
Just make sure you take one rank in Profession: Doctor.
You should make a good character and best them at there own game. Get the most kills and such like you were saying. Perhaps if you dominate the others might take notice.
I feel like that group is WAY to big, maybe split the group in half and take over DM duties for one of the groups, show them the tactics by whooping thier butts with them. If splitting is not an option, then I would see if I could find another group or run a game. They won't have your support in that case (as a player) and will have to fly on their own or fall on their face.
Also yeah, encourage them to buy the book sheesh, how can you play w/out the book?
Split the group in two and stick with the best one.
Also, the figures you see on these boards are often quite insane and I wouldn't use them as the bar for what works well and what doesn't.
With 10 players around the table, do you realise that it's actually a good thing that most of them are playing mindless martials? A group of 10 dedicated casters would be unplayable, since each turns would take about 15 minutes to complete, even more if they need to check inside a book to read how a specific spell works.
Pit your group against each other in a 2 day battle royale! Only those that live make it into the new group!
Oh I understand where you are coming from. Most of our group makes coherent classes who have skills , feats and abilities that work well together. Then there is the new guy, who takes things, not because they will enhance something he already can do, or take him down a path he wants to go, but rather because they look cool. So his sorcerer is a collection of this, that and the other, not really optimized for anything. He says he wants to play a character that just wants to blow things up, and yet, he hasn't taken things that will allow him to do that.
Ah well...he's new. Hasn't played since 2nd Ef, and needs some learning...
OK...one suggestion.
Split the group.
Talk to them and get TWO people to DM for four others at the same time. It will give everyone playing more spotlight time, and I think that is actually what they are hankering after. A smaller group will be easier to get points across to, cannot rely ion weight of numbers to win the day, and should get them thinking more tactically.
It's always better to lead by example than to follow for harmony.
I've been with my current group now for 12 years (and about 8 or so campaigns, ranging from fantasy through modern day spy and superhero to sci-fi and post-apocalypse). These are obviously folks I like, but they were mostly pretty mediocre gamers. I went ahead, though, and built good characters; initially, they thought *I* was doing something wrong, but I always had a ready defense for my combos. Eventually, some players asked my advice when building replacement characters (sub-par ones do tend to die!) or building for new campaigns. Now, everyone is pretty good.
I've found that generally, "bad groups" have simply been very insular: they've just played among themselves, and so it perpetuated bad rules-knowledge; a GM who doesn't fully understand the rules is the usual reason bad players survive: it's sort of anti-Darwinian :)
That said, it can take some time. But, leading by example and (gently) correcting errors in rules knowledge and implementation (it's amazing how many players will, for example, cleave during a full attack) will *eventually* reform the group.
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The game should be fun for you, and since you're struggling amidst min-maxers and macho gamists, I suggest you find another group, or ask your GM to start a seperate game night for those interested in fantasy roleplaying and the types of things you enjoy.
Sure, you can lead by example, but... we cannot change other players. And so I recommend trying to find the right gaming group composition of players for your own enjoyment.
Regards,
Pax
i guess i can stay within this group for the social experience (i happen to be friends with the other 9 plus the DM to some degree due to being one of the original core members still remaining) and join another for the roleplay and political intrigue.
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A game is meant to be fun and enjoyable. If it is not there, then it may be best to look for another group, but if stay - don't ruin it for the others if they like it as is.
The last organized group I gamed with had eight people (not including the DM) and it was really rough as five of the players were aware of the rules and could/would optimize their PC to the best capability of that class. A large table with several people that can optimize their character can create problems too.
Myself and two other players rotated DM's, and we each had a different world/setting and level difference. When we would meet we would discuss potential issues or problems. One thing we immediately noticed is that we had to scale up the CR's of encounters to make it challenging. Yes it was more work for us, but we took it in stride. But another thing we noticed was that certain players with certain classes were complaining about to receiving their fair share of loot, despite an equal party split. They griped that they could not get or make the items without more gold - so why should the fighter get an equal share when I am teleporting us everywhere.......
In the end everything imploded (or exploded) and a few things got personal as individuals who felt that they were entitled more or ripped off were deliberately sabotaging the storyline, party, or both. Me and another DM tried to play peace maker - but personal feelings were attacked and hurt. In the end me and four other people walked away due to this constant negativity.
Remember it is a game and should be fun.......I guess what I am trying to say is that, sometimes, the grass is not so green on the other side of the fence.
No no, don't split the group...add more. No seriously, hear me out. Add in even more players, til your character is little more than a number. Then pull out all the stops and optimize to the nines. In no time you will be the chosen one and the mob will follow your every word and deed, just to elevate the rest of them out of mediocrity.
Either that or what everyone else said.
Wow, a lot of these suggestions are really petty.
I think your best bet is to change your expectations of the group and try to have fun. You're in the minority, which means it's up to you to change.
Or you can start your own group. Or both!
Good luck, however it turns out.
I only just realized - 10 people! Granted, in some ways this is "a good problem" (most people either can't find a group or can't find a stable group), but that really is entirely too many players! My group has eight (seven players and a GM), but we're never all present at once - generally, we have 4-5 players at the table, which is manageable.
You need to hand out sharpened sticks and have "tryouts", I think...
I seriousness, I've often considered the idea of running two groups in the same campaign world, such that their activities might have an impact on one another (they might even be at cross-purposes). Now, just to find a few more people...