PridefulOne's page

provided that you cast the spell that calls the creature within 1 round of casting the magic circle.

... It would match your interpretation if it was worded "cast magic circle within 1 round of summoning the creature".

Spells with the AREA descriptor are ALWAYS immobile, unless otherwise stated in the description. Key words like "Ward" or "Aura" in the name can clue you in on when this is the case.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/spells/wardTheFaithful.html
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedRaceGuide/featuredRaces/dhampirs .html#_spawn-ward

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spells/archonSAura.html#_a rchon's-aura
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spells/imbueWithAura.html# _imbue-with-aura

Under Area targeted spells, there's a ruling for creatures:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magic.html#_spell-areas

Creatures: A spell with this kind of area affects creatures directly (like a targeted spell), but it affects all creatures in an area of some kind rather than individual creatures you select. The area might be a spherical burst, a cone-shaped burst, or some other shape

Interpretation: It centers on that location, NOT the creature (as I've said before even digging for the ruling). Unless otherwise stated in the description. Think of emanations like burst attacks that stay, unless it's stated otherwise (that's how all the other emanation spells work as well).

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/protectionFromEvil.html#_protecti on-from-evil

Even in Protection from Evil, it states the barrier moves with the person in the description. It seems the constant for EVERY spell that is mobile is specifically stated in the spells description, even if it should be "common sense". The only mention of movement in the Magic Circle description is when a creature enters or exits the area (circle) they lose the protection.

This spell has an alternative version that you may choose when casting it. A magic circle against evil can be focused inward rather than outward.

Again, a CIRCLE. The only difference between the inward and outward variety is that an outward circle effects characters outside the circle you draw on the ground (VERSION 1) or it effects inwardly to contain something evil inside of it from getting out (VERSION 2). Realistically they could've just used a ruling of "Evil can't cross the circle if they fail a will save", but it's becoming obvious some people need things to be completely explained XD

I could really keep digging up more facts to support my original claim, but I think I'll spend my time on something more useful like sleeping :P.

I'm quickly learning there're people on these boards that like to rely on digging for hours through rulings for an EXACT ruling than think for what makes sense from a designer's point of view.

A level 3 spell that gives you 3 hours to run around killing hoards of demons (that only use melee mind you, they can attack you with ranged weapons if they don't target the i'd assume "floating" circle if you want to go with a ruling that wouldn't make sense).

Good night peeps XD.

Magic Circle also flat out states that there is an alternate version of it and in that portion of the text is where it references the circle. Before then it makes no such reference.

Alter Winds: immobile 10-ft.-radius emanation
Alarm: 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a point in space
Ward the Faithful: Exact same wording as Magic Circle, but would make zero sense if you could not move the emanation with the creature touched.

Why would it have such a long duration if they didn't intend for you to benefit from it for a long period of time?

Again, it's obviously referencing the Lesser Key of Solomon's summoning rituals. You have a version to summon something in that can't hurt you, something to protect yourself in, and runes/geometry to add stability to your protection for both. You can also use it in things similar to voodoo and pagan/wiccan beliefs to keep evil forces out of influencing your work. Or literally evil in Pathfinder's case ;).

I'm not getting the problem. magic circle against evil is a third level spell that acts the same as protection from evil (unless you're using the alternate form to trap something). It doesn't allow you to move outside the circle you draw on the floor in silver.

If you want mobile protection cast protection from evil, communal. It's only a second level spell and though it doesn't have the duration it allows it's targets to move around.

Thank you! That's obviously the version and the duration is to balance the strength of mobility in combat. 10 min/level mobility in an area that's that much stronger than a level 2 spell should've raised a red flag (I play martial classes myself, so I don't know more than what gets brought up).

If the designers had wanted the mechanics to match your interpretation of the flavor, they would most certainly have changed the target to "10' radius circle (see below)" or something like that instead of "creature touched". The default use of the spell is not the occult-standard "draw a circle on the floor and demonscan come in omg don't break the circle" spell you see in urban legends, Lovecraft, or The Dresden Files--it's basically a temporary aura on the target, descended from the old "Protection from Evil 10' Radius" spell from 2E (possibly earlier). The inverted version of the archetypal circle ("demons can get out") is part of the spell, but it's an alternate version pretty much unrelated to the version mentioned in the OP.

Should they have done it this way? Probably not, but it's their game. It's good that you've changed the spell to match the flavor of your campaign--so long as you informed your players before they get into the situation OP suggested.

http://paizo.com/prd/spells/magicCircleAgainstEvil.html

... I can't tell if people troll on this forum or not with their arguments XD. It's exactly that. I was thinking more along the lines of more modern variants of the Golden Dawn practices using the Lesser Key of Solomon where you have both a protective circle and a summoning circle. Both versions are mentioned in the spell description.

You mentioned Lovecraft. You can't possibly think this idea doesn't go all the way back to the writings of the bible and older (much older) texts that give power to symbols as wards, can you?

Burst, Emanation, or Spread: Most spells that affect an area function as a burst, an emanation, or a spread. In each case, you select the spell's point of origin and measure its effect from that point.

A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, including creatures that you can't see. It can't affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don't extend around corners). The default shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst spells are specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst's area defines how far from the point of origin the spell's effect extends.

An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell. Most emanations are cones or spheres.

A spread spell extends out like a burst but can turn corners. You select the point of origin, and the spell spreads out a given distance in all directions. Figure the area the spell effect fills by taking into account any turns the spell effect takes.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magic.html#_burst-emanation-or-spr ead

There, a simple search shows that it's just a 3 foot diameter (which I'm almost willing to bet money on, they mean radius so it would be 10x10 (2x2 squares)) circle of powdered silver from your target.

This is a problem I'm having with pathfinder. People're focusing on the mechanics/system more than the flavor of an ability.

Does it make sense that the thing protecting you from evil laying on the ground would have an effect that follows you around once you leave the circle? Now, if they were making ward locations using multiple circles as they moved (multiple components/spell uses as well), that would be another thing entirely.

In my book, it's fiction (flavor/common sense) over mechanics any day. Now... If they brought a wooden raft, cut a circle in it for the party to walk/push it along, and cast the spell with the silver on that perimeter they're moving, that would make sense. But they'd have to deal with a demon getting smart and tossing it aside after they get 3/4 of the way through enjoying their gimmick for a memorable fight ;).

I'm currently Playing a Rogue mix and I'll tell you my progression + plans for the future.

4 Rogue (Roof Runner/Catburglar)
2 Ranger (Trapper)
1 Barbarian
X Shadowdancer

This gives you access to all the weapons and keeps you very much a rogue without giving up skillpoints. If I wanted to go into a more fight-focused rogue type I'd be sure to use the Scout archetype and use something like this:

8 Rogue (Scout/Thug)
2 Fighter (Mobility Fighter)
X Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger/Pistolero)

Take Mobility + Shot on the Run and you have one scary Touch AC rogue that gets plenty of feats and essentially guaranteed damage every turn while staying relatively safe.

I'm thinking about allowing alchemists into the mix because they're essentially replacing the churches because the gods have stopped influencing the world and this is essentially the only way to have healing in the setting.

My friend says the setting I have in mind reminds him of the Dark Sun setting. I've read/heard very little about it, but apparently dead gods and a collapsing world are the theme. Mine would be more like a prequel when the world's just starting to fall apart.

Adamantine Dragon, I'd have to disagree with the CR system including spellcasters. Encounters are built to either work for or against the party's strengths and there are monsters fit for any party (especially customs). I agree things could get bland if I centered purely on combat, but I try to keep the story and exploration the important things with combats being fewer and more dangerous (I've only GM'd in this style and all the players have enjoyed the brutal open rolls and tactical combat).

Odraude, I do plan on naming my items because "+1 Longsword" is just boring. I plan on having some great gear that fits the storyline/way the party goes. I'm also looking into having using a system I'm working on that's similar to the vigor system in Ultimate Combat as well as called shots.

Thanks for the conversation/advice so far :). I'm definitely considering the draw-backs and looking into alternative systems to keep things interesting and fast paced.

I have plans to DM a grittier version of Pathfinder and plan on restricting the players mainly to martial classes and low magic at the beginning (Bard, Fighter, Ranger, Rogue) to help create the sense of survival and danger in a dying world slowly falling under the control of dark sorcerers and wizards.

I feel like the whole reason any of the famous fantasy adventures are interesting is because when magic isn't common, it's a much bigger deal when you get to see it.

Does anyone have any suggestions/warnings before I get too far? And what're your thoughts on playing or running a game in this setting?

I think we should have tournaments with 3v3. That could be fun XD

I think he shouldn't die, his character should become an NPC Vampire or Vampiric Spawn (whichever is appropriate). Then in the fight you can show just how crazy a good rogue can be as a miniboss vampire with other rogue vampires.

Does anyone else find it interesting that this thread has gone on way longer than most "high caliber" advice questions that actually have a lot of room for discussion? Not to mention that people that really need advice for a character concept/rule/etc? It starts telling you a lot about this community's interest...

What I consider a great way to handle this/inspired by Pickup Artists (PUAs) if your characters can't already just use their skills and scores to assist in the pickup:

1. Perform (Seduce) - All classes have access to this skill.
2. Have the modifier used dependent on how the character is going about his seduction (Iron Kingdoms uses the same setup for its social skills):

Strength, Dexterity + Constitution - Physical attractiveness/physique. If your player can detail how he dips the girl over and makes her blush from their sexy bodies or the woman uses her curves to break hearts, these are the skills to use.

Wisdom - Take notice of what the person's wearing/compliment on something out of the ordinary and the are either naturally or trained to read other people (Pickup artists will compliment a person's shoes and have the keen ability of reading body language to gauge their progress in the seduction.)

Intelligence - Ability to "run routines" that have been developed over time until he found what worked or their quick wit helps them know the right thing to say.

Charisma - These are the naturals (the "People Person"), they're naturally gifted with the ability of capturing the hearts of those around them. Just being around them makes you feel good/you feel they're genuine and they build comfort exceptionally well in the pickup.

So there ya go, that's probably the best way of doing it. Don't throttle-neck people into "physical attraction", because if you've ever looked around people "date out of their league" all the time. There is no league if you excel in one or more of the above areas.

Honestly, you guys should look into using something similar to how D&D 5th and Iron Kingdoms does it. Intimidate checks are based on what skill you're using to intimidate. For instance, if you know what religion they are you could threaten them with their god smiting them for going against their beliefs (Using Wisdom in place of charisma). Or you could intimdate them by slipping a knife at their throat before they realize it (Dexterity). It doesn't make sense that a 7' tall Barbarian isn't scary, so he'd intimidate with his sheer size (Str or Con).

There're weaknesses in this system I was trying to address with my own take on it using a 2d6+1d6 variable engine, but Iron Kingdoms' 2d6 fills what I was trying to make with a few more ideas.

Skill Focus. Why give your intimidate TWO ability scores to be hit by a drain?

If you wanted to go with a more underground route, you could go with an Rogue (Investigator/Scout). You gain the ability to get double rolls for ALL Diplomacy checks and receive the information assigned to both rolls. Great Rogue Talents would be Coax Information (Use Diplomacy/Bluff in place of Intimidate to force someone to be friendly, saves Skill points) and Convincing Lie (You lie so well, it becomes fact to the public).

Throw in Skill Focus for Diplomacy or Bluff along with some the Power of Suggestion Trait and you'll have a lot of fun if you're creative. You'll also be the skill monkey and your group will love you for your versatility both in and out of combat (use a bow or gun and move 10 feet for sneak attacks later on) ^^.

Really you could turn ANY class into what you're going for, however anything with 6+ skill points would be desirable. No class is limited to what they actually do as a profession :).

I'm still just laughing over someone that's like "Here's my concept, build me a level 20 without having do do any work myself! No one's done it in a day!? QQ"

But yes, the real question is why not just stick to Alchemist and you can eventually get the same effect you'd like without screwing with tricky multiclassing.

You should just see about starting a group with the 2 other good players. I've been playing a game for close to a year now and our core party was only 2 people. Being level 2, we were beating CR 3 and 4s (our effective level was CR 2). It was really close, but we could do it and it wasn't from DM fudging (we both would've died the next turn in one case, but we got a lucky critical off).

Try playing a Fighter (Armor Master) and Alchemist (Rage Chemist). You'll cover all the key roles (AoE, Buffs, Focus Burst Damage, and Damage Soak (tank)) and have most skills. Any other players you pick up along the way can play anything they want. My character's become essentially a demigod (35 AC at level 11 using expertise, 32 without. 130+ HP).

You can cover these roles other ways as well, this is just the easiest imo. We've had a lot of time and it's inspired a 15+ minute animation I'm writing the script for. You wouldn't believe some of the hilarious things that happened (Serious Campaign with not so serious PCs, think the movie Your Highness).

Here're a few key spells I'd look into. What makes a Sorcerer so powerful is having few spells, but having great versatility/little preplanning involved.

Target Debuffs/Disables:
L1 - Burning Disarm [Transmutation] - (5d4 + Disarm chance vs Reflex) great vs low reflex enemies. Great alternative to Ear Piercing Scream vs high fortitude martial classes to give a lesser disable.
L1 - Ear-Piercing Scream [Evocation] (5d6 Damage + Dazed vs Fortitude) Decent burst, disable a creature for a turn (great vs solo villains/"boss" characters). I'd say a tried and true Mage Killer. 1-3 turns of being unable to attack (repeated use) = one dead mage.
L1 - Ray of Enfeeblement [Necromancy] - 1d6+5 Strength Penalty. Doesn't stack, but it's a one-time cast monster (-5 Attack (without finesse) + Damage at WORST is AMAZING at higher levels for your front liners).

AOE Burst:
L3 - Fireball (10d6 Fire damage) - Although it's unreliable, the damage potential (averaging 34-35 damage, with a max of 60) is pretty hard to beat, especially in a 20 foot radius. Team positioning is key to not obliterating your front liners (looks like you have at least 2).

Target Burst:
L4 - Bone Shatter [Necromancy] (10d6, up to 15d6 later damage + exhaust/fatigue chance for 10 minutes) Pretty much a nastier version of the disables previously listed with great single target damage to go with it.

I'll add more tomorrow possibly, I'm off to bed. Hope this helps for tonight. Just try to be sure you have a lot of options with dealing with different Saving throws. Trading utility and control for straight up damage is usually a bad thing (Hurling Rays sounds cool, but you can usually help your party do so much more using debuffs or buffs). Be sure to look into some buffs like Enlarge Person as well.

I'm digging through Hero Lab and I'd say you could do some VERY interesting things if you wanted to go the way of a TRUE "control mage". There're a lot of fun spells that let you move spheres around, cause your enemies to fall/make jump checks to get to your party as you protect them from charges and a lot of other fun effects like knockback + disarm mechanics. A lot of the Evocation spells look fun.

I'm typically a martial player (Been playing a fighter (Armor Master) with 35 AC and great saves, going to go debuff Rogue (Scout/Thug) that wields a gun for the next campaign).

I've gotta say, Pathfinder has a LOT of crazy fun stuff you can do no matter what class you are.

My game group will be starting a new campaign upon bringing our current one to a close (been playing for about 8 months). We'll be starting at level 10 for the new campaign. After looking over a lot of options in Hero Lab, I've come to the conclusion a Rogue will meet all the requirements I'm looking for in the most intimidating rounded Gunslinger you'll find. He'll allow me to roleplay something exciting (I was playing a Lawful Neutral Fighter(Armor Master) before).

Cypher - Gunslinger of Malice
Age: 37 (Middle-Aged)
Chaotic Evil
Human Rogue (Scout/Thug) 10

Abilities
STR 10
DEX 18 (15+2(Ability Boost)+1(Attribute Increase)+2(Belt))
CON 12
INT 16 (15+1(Attribute Increase))
WIS 10
CHA 18 (16+2(Headband))

Features
Brutal Beating (Sacrifice 1d6 from Sneak attack to Sicken enemy for 5 rounds (at level 10))
Evasion (Dodge Spells entirely on successful Reflex saves)
Frightening (Demoralize Attempts increases Shaken effect by 1 round, if shaken = 4 rounds, you can choose to cause 1 round of frightened)
Scout's Charge (Sneak Attack after charge; unused for this build)
Skirmisher (Sneak Attacks when you move at least 10' before attacking)
Sneak Attack = 5d6

Talents
Combat Trick (Bonus Combat Feat)
Crippling Strike (2 Str Damage on Sneak Attack)
Firearm Training (Ability to wield Firearms)
Grit (Deed: Quick Clear + Extra Grit)
Sniper's Eye (Ability to deal sneak damage vs Concealment with 30 feet)

Feats
Dodge (+1 Dodge AC; gained from Combat Trick Talent)
Gunsmithing (Ability to craft bullets and wield Revolver)
Improved Initiative (+4 Initiative)
Mobility (+4 Dodge AC when moving)
Point Blank Shot (+1 Attack if within 30 feet [VERY convenient])
Precise Shot (Ignore penalty for shooting vs melee combatants)
Shot on the Run (Full Round Action = Move your speed + shoot once at any point during the movement. This allows you to trigger sneak attacks from the Scout archetype of moving at least 10' before firing.)

With this build, I'll be dealing a stable 1d8+5d6+3 Damage (+2 Strength Damage) every turn Wielding a +2 Reliable Seeking Revolver (+14 vs Touch AC). With traits and skills I have +18 Intimidate and +10 Initiative.

The main thing I'm looking for is if I'm overlooking something. I was going to take Vital strike, but from what I understand it will NOT work with Shot on the Run and that is a key part to making this build work. I believe we're going to be running a campaign without a real "tank" (by choice, I was the tank in the last one and it's not fun being indestructible outside of strolling around Trolls whistling as they miss you with opportunity attacks [really happened]).

Obvious changes I could make is diving into a level or two of gunslinger instead of spending two Rogue Talents to ALMOST equate to 1 level of Gunslinger, but I want to stick to Rogue for the level 20 chance to kill. I plan to make him the most feared gunslinger in the world we're working on (Possibly put in the lore with stats when we finish the campaign setting) :).

I forgot to mention I'd swap the ability scores a bit if you were going to go for a Pistolero following a similar array you chose, with a bit more min/maxing to get some rounding done.

STR 11 (110 Carry Weight)
DEX 15 (17)
CON 14
INT 12
Wis 15
CHA 8

This is the route I'd go if you wanted to go with a primarily combat oriented gunslinger. This will give you more grit (Standard Archetypes use Wisdom, Mysterious Stranger uses Charisma) and a higher will save.

Hope all this helps, I had fun making it for ya ^^.

I was thinking of doing something similar for our upcoming Airship planes campaign (Level 10). I decided to make your concept/improve upon it as an option for myself. There're a few changes I'll explain.

Human Rogue (Scout) 9 / Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger) 1

STR 12
DEX 15 (18 [17+1])
CON 12
INT 12
WIS 10
CHA 15 (16 [+1])

Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger) 1
1 = Point Blank Shot + Precise Shot

Rogue (Scout) Start Class at 2

2 = Sneak Attack 1d6
3 = Finesse Rogue (Rogue Talent) + Dodge
4 = Sneak Attack 2d6
5 = Mobility (Combat Trick [Rogue Talent]) + Scout's Charge (Rogue Ability) + Shot On The Run

At level 5, you're already capable of dealing sneak attack damage every other turn (from charging) and firing your weapon as you fall back between each round. I believe this fills your character concept quite a bit more both thematically and mechanically. You'll also be able to add a your flat Charisma modifier to your damage rather than relying on the randomness of a d6 (+3 EVERY use). This can be increased to +4 if you change your +2 to Charisma instead of Dex.

As for roleplaying, this will also give you a very skillful character (in my case I'm going to be playing a CHAOTIC(!) Neutral Intimidating character) which will make you even more useful out of combat.

From this point, I would continue down the rogue tree to make your sneak attack on your gun ultimately deal sneak damage EVERY turn with your gun (Scout 8 = Skirmisher: Deal sneak attack damage on your first attack after moving at least 10' in the same round).

If the shiny (and costly) 1d6 bonus damage from the pistolero floats, just swap to that. In the long run, you DO get more burst potential if you go with pistolero, but for just dipping into a class I feel the Mysterious Stranger archetype benefits the party more than just being "another damage dealer".