I posted on here a few days ago requesting creative skill uses. I need some help now on how to DM this party. It's an archery ranger going into lantern bearer later, a TWF rogue, a bomber alchemist, an umbral sorcerer, and a bard, unbuilt so far. He'll probably be a typical finesse melee character. They're all new to the game, but I'm not.
So, they're lacking much in the way of muscle. The campaign, so far, will be about drow making contact with mind flayers, and a war against drow and all sorts of aliens, aberration heavy. There will probably be more thrown into it, but most of them haven't done their backgrounds yet and that's how I determine what we do.
How do I challenge them without crushing them? They have a million collective skill ranks, and they're very stealthy. I don't want something urban. Any sort of ideas, specific or general, would be much appreciated.
Sounds like a party that will excel at ambush tactics and living by their wits. Detect early, position well, do your damage and get out if the battle turns against you. I'd suggest putting in a dwarven trading post in the underdark where the PCs can occasionally hire muscle when the situation calls for it - maybe after the PCs prove pivotal in defending the settlement.
How does the rogue plan to get sneak attacks? Nobody else is a melee combatant.
How does the rogue plan to get sneak attacks? Nobody else is a melee combatant.
Bard
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Ya if the bard is not built yet maybe suggest a melee style build to them, he should be able to closee up combat.
Agreed, And theres a few Bard archetypes that do that pretty good.
Ah, right, I'm used to my party's bards being ranged. That makes sense, then.
For combats, make them more, I'm not sure, dynamic? environmental? motion oriented? Skill based? Things where everyone is using climb to move, stealth to get position and acrobatics to escape after they strike? Large dark caves where the PCs and NPCs are hiding behind stalagmites and stalactites moving around more than a bunch of dudes standing there beating eachother?
Did you post this in reddit also?
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How does the rogue plan to get sneak attacks? Nobody else is a melee combatant.
you can get sneak attack with a bow at 30ft or closer if the opponents are flat-footed.
If this is a war, then presumably at least some of the time they'll have a mentor or be taking a commission or some such so its entirely reasonable to give them scouting and reconnaissance missions. Perhaps theft of enemy plans and such. Maybe sneaking in to rescue prisoners whist there's a distraction somewhere else.
I'd give them opportunities for ambushes, hit-and-run tactics, spells or environments that take away dex bonus (eg. enemies are climbing). Be generous with CLW potions and wands, and later lesser restoration potions. Give them escape routes (perhaps needing perception and/or clever tactics). Terrain advantages like higher ground.
The biggest problems I'm finding with a party without a tank are firstly relatively low con, so nobody has huge hit points - I keep an eye on the criticals opponents can dish out compared to their hit points. The second is DR. I've learned to check they've a fair chance to cause damage. Another tactic I've used when unsure if a combat is fair, is to make it weaker and have an enemy patrol or reinforcements to arrive and join in if needed (but I try not to over use it).
Don't worry too much. In the great campaign of "Way of the Wicked" my party is made up of 2 rogues, 1 ninja and an invoker. I think it's going to be great fun (they just have to understand they don't play typical D&D but it can be great great fun with ambushes, hide in shadows and so on...)
Nevertheless for unexperienced players it can be tough. So go easy on them first and let them have creative ideas.
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Played in a party (for kingmaker) with pretty much the same set up. Alchemist bomber, Cleric, Wizard, Magician Bard and a Switch range Ranger.
I, as the Cleric, ended up focusing on summoning spells to get meat shields to protect the party. (The summons just tied enemies up for 1 round, allowing the Wizard and Alchemist to get off fireballs and bombs...
Try not to be too heavy handed in party setup. Since your party has stealth and many skills, try to focus on that.
Run the game as more of a spy adventure!
If the party requests for more combat, just let them have it as per normal and let them come up with solutions to over come their lack of a tank in combat.
Did you post this in reddit also?
Haha yes, I did. I find that the paizo boards are usually much more responsive, but it can't hurt to get a few more views.
It looks like the bard may go arcane duelist now, so he'll be a good and tough melee combatant. At the same time, he'll be giving up some of his stealthiness when he dons heavier armor at later levels. I thought about suggesting dervish dancer, but he definitely wants to remain a buffer. So archaeologist is a no go, too. How should I handle that? Stick with arcane duelist? Go dex-focused and just ignore the armor proficiencies?