My players were given these two lists for character creation, which happened yesterday.
(I wanted my world to feel different than the "normal" D&D world, it's a homebrew Asian Fantasy world - the mini write up is in the Homebrew boards)
Races:
Humans, Elves, Vanara, Nagaji, Tengu, Kitsune, Grippli, Catfolk, Ratfolk, Vishkanya, or Samsarans
Classes:
Alchemist, Barbarian, Bard, Priest (Cleric), Shaman (Druid), Fighter, Magus, Monk, Oracle, Ranger, Rogue/Ninja, Samurai, Sorcerer, Wizard (5 Element Schools ONLY), or Witch.
Given that spread, my four players chose...
Catfolk Oracle of Nature (Seer)
Grippli Sorcerer, Destined Bloodline
Vanara Alchemist (not sure if he's going by the book or using an archetype)
Tengu Witch (Elements)
(all 1st level)
Ummmmm.... Guess we're doing a magic school game, w/ furries! :o/
What ideas do you have to help me change gears, I've never run an all magic user game before... Help?
What kinds of plots can I use that don't fall back on mysteries and puzzles?? I'm worried that any monster I send at them would smash them flat...
Not that I'm adverse to mysteries and puzzles, I just don't want the whole game to be that one sided... Guess I wait for monsters till 6th level?? Then let them loose?
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I don't understand why it has to be that different from any other game.
Your oracle and alchemist both have d8 hit dice and can wear (some) armor. The oracle can even use a shield and, with one of the Nature revelations, can use Charisma instead of Dexterity for AC. Nature Oracles make very good tanks (and they can cure themselves!) so that could effectively be your fighter and cleric rolled into one.
Alchemists make mincemeat of small groups, even at low levels, with their bombs dealing splash damage all over the place. The sorcerer has some bloodline powers to assist with, and possibly a little bit of blasting potential (depending on spell choice). The witch's hex, depending on what it is, can be a major boon for combat encounters.
As with any other 1st level party, challenges such as goblins, kobolds, and other low-end monsters should not be an issue. They have more than enough staying power and damage potential to handle all the things a normal party could.
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Not sure how asian you plan to make your game, but you could look at L5R (Legend of the Five Rings), Oriental Adventures and some other sources of campaigns/scenarios to get ideas on asian flavored campaigns or adventures that don't involve straight up combat. Alot of those adventures involve a mixture of social, mystery and combat. Remember, asian societies often have alot of cultural/social issues to deal with, and a lot of the asian flavor comes from those issues.
Otherwise, you can run it like most other Pathfinder/DND type game as the characters should be able to handle a variety of low level encounters. One advantage in the modern Pathfinder system versus the old AD&D system is that the spellcasters have alot more staying power... bigger hit dice, armor options, and multiple spells per day. I remember facing four cavalrymen (after they dispatched the other three PCs) in 2nd Edition AD&D and my 1st level Wizard getting to zap one of them with his single magic missle, then fighting with his staff. I think I actually got one of them before the others stomped me into the ground!
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Well, they'll be a bit stronger on range than an average party, and weaker in melee. So meeting orcs at a 10ft distance is a disaster, but a big zombie horde starting 200ft away wouldn't be a big problem.
I've got sort of the same problem coming up. I was so looking forward to using lots of velociraptors, but with a party consisting of sorcers, witches and druids, I think it would be too sadistic. I mean, it makes sense for raptors to go for the juicy familiars first, and with +8 init, speed 60, stealth 22 (forests) and perception +14 and pounce, that's just not something a non-melee party can handle, the surprise round is too intense.
So I think your party will have a hard time if the enemy wins initiative, but given a few actions to shape the battlefield and control distance to the enemy, their chances would improve.
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Looks like an interesting party composition. Definitely go good on your investigations and puzzles, as that is quite fun. (I do recommend that for every campaign.)
Having them battle other spell casters should be interesting, perhaps even look at some of the rules for Spell Duels in the Ultimate Combat/Magic books. You could run the game at a totally different pace from normal which could be quite enjoyable. Especially for an Asia themed world.
Meeting Orcs at 10ft. is a desaster for any first level party.
The only thing I see as problematic is that this group is almost build for the 15 minute workday. Apart from that be prepared to SOSed a lot between Witch hexes and things like color spray/sleep.
quite sociable party so use that (rival factions, seeking favours)
set in big city so they never have to run away far, can load up easy of consumables
use magic academy in the background
make the enemy fairly magical too for spell combat
fey, other planars
lots of bits lost lore, secret knowledge, tricks and puzzles
slow pace to allow for item creation feats
rotate the front line...witches need to get fairy close
have wizards (so straight laced by the book) as a key enemy rival who look down at your spontaneous, chemical meddling, untrained spellcasters...and the same for some formal learned clerics as well
last year ran a PF campaign from 1st to 7th with all wizard party. nice change of pace, focus, challenge and tactics
hope it goes well
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You could permit them to hire soldiers without going through the Leadership feat; common soldiers only (simple stats).
How much the soldiers cost, how brave they are, how many are willing to sign on and such would all fluctuate based on the party's reputation and skill at bringing out everyone alive. Which could be an interesting challenge.
With such a caster-party, they could be hired as expects to handle occult problems, and they can charge their employer for melee mercenaries as an expense.
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In terms of role-play, I tend to treat a caster-heavy party like I would a gang of dangerous gunslingers. They may be on the side of the angels, but the locals are still going to be extremely nervous when they come to town, and the local authorities are going to know want to keep tabs on them.
The fact that your party has no humans in it makes things somewhat interesting, from my perspective. If I were you, I would re-jigger your campaign world to eliminate humans almost entirely. Take two of the races your players picked and make them the dominant species in the area. No need to completely re-write the campaign, just change all the humans and elves in it to something else. (Furry campaign, basically)
wow, definitely read up on the Chinese classic "Journey to the West". You've got a similar situation.
Looks like a pretty well covered party. The oracle and the vanara might be good in a melee fight. Can you post the builds of these characters?
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There are plenty of ways to build noncombat encounters. You could have unfriendly NPCs that can still be persuaded to cooperate, political intrigue, really let your PCs flex those social skills!
You could also use traps that deal ability score damage instead of hit point damage. Look through the list of poisons for something your group would be fairly capable of coping with, and then decide that the combat NPCs spent their gold on some of that poison instead of better weapons, armor, etc.
Though to be fair, a group full of spellcasters really shouldn't have a problem with a low-Will-save melee monster. As long as someone learns a Summon Monster spell (or the alchemist isn't afraid to quaff a mutagen and take point) you should be just fine.
Thanks everyone!
You've all given me good food for thought, and helped me realize a city game with all the characters being students of a mythic university that is basically THE center of magical learning for this continent, if not the world. A whole city dedicated to magic of all kinds, and the learning/exploring of said magics.
I don't have the stats for the characters, I think we only got half way through character creation... But I do remember that the Oracle and Alchemist both have horrible Str scores :o/
I think 9, and 5 respectfully
*sigh* that's what I get for "3d6 or 1d20, which ever is higher, stats in order. Can switch 2 scores." Ability creation... May just let them redo their abilities with the point buy system at 25 points. (though I did let them scratch out the set of stats and start over, if they wanted... But that lost them the set)
Delving back into your creativity, I'd like to see some ideas for rivals, teachers, and even towns folk ;o) use the lists in my first post if you want to make an NPC... You are a great Insperation for my own creativity, in fact I need to go start writing down the ideas you've triggered before I forget them!
Thank you! Thank you!
(I'm already seeing some of the ruins in the Gloden Jungle be more puzzle and traps focused, and TONS of storylines tied into being students at a city sized Mythic University)
P.S. - did anyone read the mini write up of Aeth I wrote on the homebrew boards? here
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Did you yourself go to college? Think of any memorable professors or classmates you had and reinvent them as NPCs.
I definitely agree that the main enemies should be wizards and clerics. Maybe the clerics have a few inquisitors on retainer for when the trouble gets heavy and someone needs to get their hands dirty. The wizards, meanwhile, prefer golems and animated objects as their resident muscle.
The traditional spellcasting enemies, necromancers, probably won't work in a setting like this. A society that embraces magic in all its forms probably tolerates necromancy, if not outright embracing it. Personally, I always wanted to see a society where it's evocation that's considered the "forbidden" branch of magic. Necromancy may be macabre, but the ability to throw fireballs seems much easier to abuse.
Maybe one recurring enemy is an eidolon, and the party has to figure out which of the NPCs they've met is secretly its summoner? A summoner would have no trouble passing himself off as a sorcerer or a wizard, as long as he keeps his hat on while his eidolon is out and about.
Meanwhile, there's always a bard or two causing trouble. The wizards and clerics are probably tired of the bardic element of the city, so a bard could be convinced to let the PCs in on some bardic knowledge to help them against the wizards-- for a price. But can the PCs trust that they aren't just being bluffed?
Have their magic school send them out with a "Sergeant-at-Arms". His job is to protect them, so that they can conduct their investigations for the Academy.
He's a gruff old bastard, not giving to "babysitting a bunch of book readers" and will regale them with tales of bygone battles around the campfire. He is charged by the Academy to protect their investigators (the PC's, naturally), and has a budget for hiring men to wield the steel.
He gets paid by the PC's on a weekly basis so that he can pay the men, and maintain "the camp". His own salary is paid by the Academy.
Losing one's Sergeant-at-Arms is a no,no. One loses Academy standing for being careless.
If the players are on extended stay in a city, he will scale back the number of men in your company, and keep only essentials. He tends for himself during these weeks of downtime. He tends to recruit from organizations friendly to the Academy of Magic.
Now...pay attention. This assumes that your world is like most medieval fantasy worlds, in that most people respect muscle and steel, and regard magic as a dangerous art. There is no way the Academy would send them out "unprotected", so this sergeant and his men become the "protection". He's an NPC, not a DMPC. They need to manage him, and deal with him as they would any other NPC. He has some authority too, which should make things interesting.
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I say give them whatever challenges you were planning and let them figure it out. There's plenty there to work with. You have two damage dealers, a buffer, and a debuffer. The Sorcerer might need to step it up with control spells.
Need a rogue type? Alchemists have dethroned the rogue in many ways. The witch can probably summon something that can get around whatever the requirements are. If it's just spying, her familiar can probably handle it, right? Traps? Summon Minor Monster. Need a tank? Summon Monster I.
I definitely wouldn't give them a babysitter. No offense, Owly.
Also, sometimes you just gotta run away. Heck, this is what most of AD&D was, at the lowest levels.
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Did you yourself go to college? Think of any memorable professors or classmates you had and reinvent them as NPCs.
I definitely agree that the main enemies should be wizards and clerics. Maybe the clerics have a few inquisitors on retainer for when the trouble gets heavy and someone needs to get their hands dirty. The wizards, meanwhile, prefer golems and animated objects as their resident muscle.
The traditional spellcasting enemies, necromancers, probably won't work in a setting like this. A society that embraces magic in all its forms probably tolerates necromancy, if not outright embracing it. Personally, I always wanted to see a society where it's evocation that's considered the "forbidden" branch of magic. Necromancy may be macabre, but the ability to throw fireballs seems much easier to abuse.
Maybe one recurring enemy is an eidolon, and the party has to figure out which of the NPCs they've met is secretly its summoner? A summoner would have no trouble passing himself off as a sorcerer or a wizard, as long as he keeps his hat on while his eidolon is out and about.
Meanwhile, there's always a bard or two causing trouble. The wizards and clerics are probably tired of the bardic element of the city, so a bard could be convinced to let the PCs in on some bardic knowledge to help them against the wizards-- for a price. But can the PCs trust that they aren't just being bluffed?
Yeah in my little setting I'm working on and throwing the players into, you won't find all types of spellcasters everywhere. Some regions and civs specialise, even into sub-schools. One country favours conjuration and necromancy, another evocation, another abjuration, insect folk favour illusion to pass amongst us, and so on. For clerics, monotheism in one place, domain clerics, ancestor worship but no gods worshipped in an area of stone city states above the jungle. Druid even get a bit of attention, they are allied to some pretty dark powers, and nature and its protectors owns a good chunk of the world. Helps to set up factions and allegiances too.
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Yeah in my little setting I'm working on and throwing the players into, you won't find all types of spellcasters everywhere. Some regions and civs specialise, even into sub-schools. One country favours conjuration and necromancy, another evocation, another abjuration, insect folk favour illusion to pass amongst us, and so on. For clerics, monotheism in one place, domain clerics, ancestor worship but no gods worshipped in an area of stone city states above the jungle. Druid even get a bit of attention, they are allied to some pretty dark powers, and nature and its protectors owns a good...Did you yourself go to college? Think of any memorable professors or classmates you had and reinvent them as NPCs.
I definitely agree that the main enemies should be wizards and clerics. Maybe the clerics have a few inquisitors on retainer for when the trouble gets heavy and someone needs to get their hands dirty. The wizards, meanwhile, prefer golems and animated objects as their resident muscle.
The traditional spellcasting enemies, necromancers, probably won't work in a setting like this. A society that embraces magic in all its forms probably tolerates necromancy, if not outright embracing it. Personally, I always wanted to see a society where it's evocation that's considered the "forbidden" branch of magic. Necromancy may be macabre, but the ability to throw fireballs seems much easier to abuse.
Maybe one recurring enemy is an eidolon, and the party has to figure out which of the NPCs they've met is secretly its summoner? A summoner would have no trouble passing himself off as a sorcerer or a wizard, as long as he keeps his hat on while his eidolon is out and about.
Meanwhile, there's always a bard or two causing trouble. The wizards and clerics are probably tired of the bardic element of the city, so a bard could be convinced to let the PCs in on some bardic knowledge to help them against the wizards-- for a price. But can the PCs trust that they aren't just being bluffed?
The city of Kou'an is criss crossed by canals, making "islands" throughout the city. The center isle is the Wizards Tower, which non but the High Council enter. The canals are circles and lines centered on the Tower "island". Several circles cut into quarters or greater, with a final half circle between the city and the river, upper part is the city's farms and rice patters. The lower part is a mix of slums and Market Bazar, a tent city of merchandise from around the world... Zhen Empire, Wu Kindgon, Kindom of Shima, Claw Island (Grippli), Vanamarga Empire (Vanaran's), etc.
The Four quarters of the Inner Circle (the "islands" around the inner Tower) makes up the main "Campus" of the University, though the area is broken up into different Colleges based on Class (Alchemist's Acadamy, Sorcerer's Society, Druid's Den, etc)
The classes maybe one type of Caster, but the dorms/housing is different... The Dean of Students makes sure that each dorm room and senior/family housing is as mixed as possible, ensuring the students get as cross cultural an experience as possible.
I don't see the rest of the world being as tolerant about magic, infact I see the city growing because it became a haven for both Divine and Arcane casters that may have had to flee their homelands due to prosecution. By the time the more conservative nations noticed what was going on the city had too much magical firepower (knowledge from across the continent) for them to dare attack Kou'an, City of Magic.
I can see College revelries and rivalries getting out of hand, causing strife in the Dorms and Houses (not to mention "frats" and "sororities" built around styles of magic i.e. Death or Fire or Winter,etc.)
I'm starting to think this might be good as a total social game with random magical mayhem... Join a house and have to battle for first prize of the University "Mythic Faire" (kinda like the rivalry in "Real Genius"), dare to find a banned spell to "prove" your loyalty to your new "Frat" etc.
I have tons of ideas, just wanted to see what the minds of the Paizo Message Board users could come up with to spark even more! I want this game to be amazing ;o)
(it's the first time running D&D since 3.0 came out... Been in nWoD too long! LOL)
Basically this will more than likely turn into a DPR race...it will be who can blow whom up first. Have fun and when one of them dies it will click that they need a martial character.
Both the Druid and Alchemist can handle themselves in melee just fine. Your statement is invalid.
Basically this will more than likely turn into a DPR race...it will be who can blow whom up first. Have fun and when one of them dies it will click that they need a martial character.Both the Druid and Alchemist can handle themselves in melee just fine. Your statement is invalid.
That would be great if I had a Druid, but it's...
Alchemist, Sorcerer, Oracle, and Witch.
Not sure if the Oracle could be a brawler or not... Looks like he might be, Catfolk w/ Claws & Claw Blades... *shrug*
At this point the game is going to be more City based, at their Mythic University (size of a city, thus full of Magical Mayhem). ;o) aka Asian Harry Potter, the University Years LOL
Once they are "Fellows" of the University, then I'll branch out into Ruin Crawling for Mystic Artifacts and Knowledge... After level 5!
Since Casters tend (not always, but usually) to be the social ones, I'll focus on that part of the game till they have more battle capability, then around the time they start to "dominate" fights (as I've read over and over again on several Threads, on several Forums) then I'll throw in more of the "typical" D&D style encounters/adventures.
(I over use (parentheses) on a regular basis... Sorry if you find it offensive)
So my fifth player has decided to join us, but he's been such a flake that I've decided he's going to have a cursed artifact that keeps him unstuck in Time... Thus whe the Player flakes on us, his character will be pulled from the time stream, and when the player shows up, the character will snap back into the time stream... With no time passing in between the disappearance and reappearance.
He'll be playing a... Kitsune Bard!
So the party is...
The Kitsune Bard,
The Tengu Witch of Elements,
The Catfolk Oracle of Nature,
The Grippli Destined Sorcerer,
And the Vanaran Alchemist (no archetype)
The Fox, Crow, Cat, Frog, and Monkey... Wow, crazy group! This'll be interesting. LOL
The main issue is the guy playing the Tengu Witch has never played any games that weren't a boardgame or computer game, and last night it was VERY obvious he's going to need a lot of hand holding...
How have you handled Newbs before?? Should I buddy him up with another player? Focusing more time on him seems wrong somehow... so I'm thinking the Buddy System might be best.
What have you done in the past for newbies who need more attention, and multiple explanations for stuff most gamers take for granted as Common Knowledge? :o/