Hi, me and one guy of the group who i play Pathfinder always have the same discussion, how is the best class? Barbarian (Me) or The Fighter (He), and always end saying that the best class are the Speellcaster...
LOL anyway, so we decided that we had to make a fight between the two. So, this satudary we are gonna to make one Barbarian level 20 and one Fighter level 20 for one fight....(I know thats maybe very dummy, but its fun for us XD) Anyway, the rules of creation are simple, only use the rules, the feats and the archetype from the CoreBook and the AdvancePlayer, no traits, and use the Purchase System for the caracteristics, only one characteristics must down to 8 (Cuz, how care Int or Wisdon in 10 for a pvp XD), for each object spend only the 25% of 880.000 gp, and thats it. So...any recomendention for a Barbarian kills Fighter? XD I know that maybe a very hard fight, the Fighter is...well....a damage dealer of hell, and they have a very good AC.
I was thinking about the archetyp invulnerable Rage, for the DR, or maybe the Titan Mauler, for the Large change, for more damage. A greatSword +5 whit Speed (+3) and one BreastPlate +5 of Mrithail. of Course, more items, like the Belt of Strength, Amulet of Natural Armor or Maybe breacers of armor (this is very tasty XD), ring of protection, etc.
The Rage Powers that i was thinking are, Come and Get Me, Ground Breaker (i dont know about this, cuz i dont know how affecs the condition of knocked prone.) Increased Damage Reduction , Flesh Wound , Mighty Swing, Guarded Stance. Fiend Totem(For this i have to take the lesser fiend totem rage power) or maybe i should put all the elementas Rage Power...
Any suggestion?
Start by sundering his +5 axiomatic orc bane keen shocking falchion. Then sunder his head while he gets out his masterwork longsword.
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if he builds a good fighter you wont get close enough to hit him. you would need a flight form to even think about getting to him to hurt him with melee.
are you guys using consumables? any magic items, custom magic items? i dont know what type of fighter hes bringing, so use invisibility potions of you can.
I really i dont know hoe its gonna be hes Fighter, thats the fun about XD, cuz he dont know how i gonna build my barbarian XD. But i dont think we are gonna use magic items likes invisibility potions, o stuff like thats, just the basics, weapons plus +5 plus any hability (No Vorpal).
A greatsword +5 whit Speed (+3) and one Breastplate +5 of Mithril. of Course, more items, like the Belt of Strength, Amulet of Natural Armor or Maybe bracers of armor (this is very tasty XD), ring of protection, etc.
Those two items don't stack.
Come and Get Me is the cornerstone. He does more damage per swing than you do (assuming same weapon and same strength before rage; the fighter's feats and weapon training adds more than rage does), so the only way to be competitive is Come and Get Me to out-attack him. Add Dazing Assault feat so each of those AoOs has a chance of ruining his entire next turn. Lunge is a must in case he decides to use a reach weapon or has lunge himself, though it won't apply to your threatened reach.
Main edge of the Fighter will be his auto confirming crits. Combined w/ an 18-20 weapon, Imp. Crit or keen, and some critical feats, and you've got a very serious danger of losing as soon as he rolls a 15+ and you fail a save. If he's using a reach weapon, he may also be able to stuff you from closing with him with the Pin Down feat; Lunge is vital to help avoid that.
Chengar Qordath why the Breastplate and the bracers dont stack?, bracers dont works whit armor?.
Uhm thats mean the only way i have to face the Fighter is whit try to killing the most fast posibble....crap....i guees i have to use the Titan Mauler archetype.
Get Bite for an additional attack. Pounce seems obvious, so you can full attack him. Sundering his weapon and armor is a nice idea too. Improved Sunder + Greater Sunder + Smasher (Rage Power) can be fun.
IIRC, there is a feat that allows you to add Con to Damage by spending 3 rounds of rage. A Half-Orc can use this an extra 6 times per day.
Strength Surge will give you a big bonus to CMD.
The Invulnerable Rager archetype could be useful.
Unexpected Strike can do wonders. Full Attack, step 5ft from him. When he approaches, AoO.
Since you'll be Rage-cycling, you can do that every time.
Hi, me and one guy of the group who i play Pathfinder always have the same discussion, how is the best class? Barbarian (Me) or The Fighter (He), and always end saying that the best class are the Speellcaster...
LOL anyway, so we decided that we had to make a fight between the two. So, this satudary we are gonna to make one Barbarian level 20 and one Fighter level 20 for one fight....(I know thats maybe very dummy, but its fun for us XD) Anyway, the rules of creation are simple, only use the rules, the feats and the archetype from the CoreBook and the AdvancePlayer, no traits, and use the Purchase System for the caracteristics, only one characteristics must down to 8 (Cuz, how care Int or Wisdon in 10 for a pvp XD), for each object spend only the 25% of 880.000 gp, and thats it. So...any recomendention for a Barbarian kills Fighter? XD I know that maybe a very hard fight, the Fighter is...well....a damage dealer of hell, and they have a very good AC.I was thinking about the archetyp invulnerable Rage, for the DR, or maybe the Titan Mauler, for the Large change, for more damage. A greatSword +5 whit Speed (+3) and one BreastPlate +5 of Mrithail. of Course, more items, like the Belt of Strength, Amulet of Natural Armor or Maybe breacers of armor (this is very tasty XD), ring of protection, etc.
The Rage Powers that i was thinking are, Come and Get Me, Ground Breaker (i dont know about this, cuz i dont know how affecs the condition of knocked prone.) Increased Damage Reduction , Flesh Wound , Mighty Swing, Guarded Stance. Fiend Totem(For this i have to take the lesser fiend totem rage power) or maybe i should put all the elementas Rage Power...
Any suggestion?
PvP does not determine the best class. A monk can probably kick a bard's butt in a fight, but the bard is one of the more useful classes in the game.
Going back to your question though neither one is really better IMHO. It all boils down to how you want to use the class, and how well it is built.
I expect the fighter to win in PvP though since he will(should) have a higher AC, and if he goes with a crit focused build he can stagger the barbarian enough times to stop it from getting full round attacks in. This assumes both players are equal though. YMMV.
Chengar Qordath why the Breastplate and the bracers dont stack?, bracers dont works whit armor?.
Pathfinder 101: They both give the same type of bonus to AC, so they don't stack.
oh come on wraithstrike, dont wish bad luck for the Barbarian XD I know this game dont work whit the logic of PvP, thats for real, but is fun to do it.
Lemmy you give greats ideas....greats ideas! I was thinking...
Unexpected Strike can do wonders. Full Attack, step 5ft from him. When he approaches, AoO.....and whit Come and Get i could make onother AoO (Of Course, -4 to AC and Damage, but whit The Invulnerable Rager i think i can stand one or two rounds whit that.) , but for that i need the Quick Reflexes....for me is pretty nice tatic.
PvP does not determine the best class. A monk can probably kick a bard's butt in a fight, but the bard is one of the more useful classes in the game.
True. I'm assuming this PvP is just a fun game experiment between two friends. The Same Game Test would be a better way to measure up two different classes against each other.
IMHO, Barbarians are better, as they get better mobility, better saves (through Superstition, specially Human Barbarians), more skill ranks (and better class skills) and more out-of-combat versatility.
And last, but not least, they are (IMO) much more fun to play, as Barbarians get lots of unique cool stuff. Fighter usually only get bigger numbers. And they are not even that bigger.
oh come on wraithstrike, dont wish bad luck for the Barbarian XD I know this game dont work whit the logic of PvP, thats for real, but is fun to do it.
Lemmy you give greats ideas....greats ideas! I was thinking...
Unexpected Strike can do wonders. Full Attack, step 5ft from him. When he approaches, AoO.....and whit Come and Get i could make onother AoO (Of Course, -4 to AC and Damage, but whit The Invulnerable Rager i think i can stand one or two rounds whit that.) , but for that i need the Quick Reflexes....for me is pretty nice tatic.
I am not wishing the barbarian bad luck, but I know how hard they hit, and the fighter is better off using a lockdown type build than trying to melee one. I think the fighter does more damage, but the barbarian is still close enough to make trading blows a bad idea.
PS:I am assuming archery based fighters are not allowed. :)
That actually begs the question, what are the battlefild trules?
By which I mean, at what distance will you be from one another? In which type of terrain? Are potions/wands/scrolls allowed?
How will you guys handle Initiative? Roll? Average? Alternate between you two?
True. I'm assuming this PvP is just a fun game experiment between two friends. The Same Game Test would be a better way to measure up two different classes against each other.
Very True, just for fun.
I like the both character, and always play whit the same logic, rol on mind!, but i have a group of playing, that i have to said, just see this game like a computer game....and that thinking is kind a catchy XD ( I hate to said). But, anyway, its only for fun this pvp. I love Barbarian, and they background (Conan Fanatic right here!)It doesnt matter if i loose or win ( although I would love to win XD),but is just for fun. XD
That actually begs the question, what are the battlefild trules?
By which I mean, at what distance will you be from one another? In which type of terrain? Are potions/wands/scrolls allowed?
How will you guys handle Initiative? Roll? Average? Alternate between you two?
Thats doesnt decided yet, are two alternatives, 1ª Not ranged weapons alowed, and side by side.
2º 30` Of distance, straight line.
I think we are gonna make 2 of 3 rounds, or 3 of 5 depends on us. But i think that we are gonna Alternate the Initiative bewteen rounds.
Explame, first round Fighter begins, Seconds Rounds Barbarian Begins.
Heh.. I had a fun idea... Although I could be a bit of all-or-nothing.
Terrifying Howl. Every creature in a 30ft radius must succeed on a will save DC of be Panicked for 2 rounds.
Even with Bravery, how high is a fighter's save DC? And that is assuming he didn't take an archetype that trades it for something else (unlikely, if he is really optimizing the fighter)
The DC is 10 + Half Barbarian level + The Barbarian's Str Modifier.
So, At least a 23? Most likely a 24 or 25. If the fighter fails its saves it drops EVERYTHING he is holding and runs scared for at least 2 rounds? Except Barbarians can run faster and pounce the fighter.
You could get within 30ft from him and use Terrifying Howl. Then, stand still. If he somehow resists and approaches you, full attack him, 5ft step and go to the Unexpected Strike route.
Amen for Lemmy....amen! XD
Again, I'm not sure how good that'd actually be. Chances are, there are better choices. But it'd be very funny if it worked. ^^
Tsc I really can't find the Feat/Rage Power that lets you add your Con modifier to damage rolls at the expense of 3 rage rounds. That could be a big damage booster.
I'd get at least Beast Totem (all 3 rage powers), Smasher (sunder that armor like paper!), Unexpected Strike, Intimidating Glare -> Terrifying Howl.
Again, I'm not sure how good that'd actually be. Chances are, there are better choices. But it'd be very funny if it worked. ^^
Tsc I really can't find the Feat/Rage Power that lets you add your Con modifier to damage rolls at the expense of 3 rage rounds. That could be a big damage booster.
I'd get at least Beast Totem (all 3 rage powers), Smasher (sunder that armor like paper!), Unexpected Strike, Intimidating Glare -> Terrifying Howl.
The ability is called "Raging Brutality". It is a feat in the ultimate combat book.
Raging BrutalityYou expend some of your rage to strike your opponents with a more powerful weapon blow.
Prerequisite: Str 13, rage class feature, Power Attack, base attack bonus +12.
Benefit: While raging and using Power Attack, you can spend 3 additional rounds of your rage as a swift action to add your Constitution bonus on damage rolls for melee attacks or thrown weapon attacks you make on your turn. If you are using the weapon two-handed, instead add 1-1/2 times your Constitution bonus. This bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit.
and if is in Ultimate Combat is no Allowed
The entire book is banned for your group?
The master dont have it, and we was playing whit out ultimate combat and ultimate magic like six month ago, so we dont use it. XD
First off I recommend that you do it with only basic equipment. You want it to be a contest between character's abilities, not a contest of who bought better stuff or who was better able to hide their character's weaknesses with magic.
Secondly, I'd definitely suggest an Invulnerable Rager (I'll post a recommended build below).
Third let's keep in mind that this will only tell you who is better in a one-on-one fight, NOT who would bring more to a party. Barbarians, by being more survivable and much, MUCH less susceptible to magic will add more in large part due to the fact they can't be taken out of the fight (or turned) so easily.
Here is the Barbarian build I suggest that you use, my build slightly modified (you don't need all of the anti-magic stuff but it will all be lagniappe anyway).
Human 1st level Fighter (Unbreakable) / 19th level Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager)
Attributes: (25 point build)
STR - 16 (+2 racial bonus, +1 at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th)
DEX - 14
CON - 14
INT - 14
WIS - 12
CHA - 8
Traits:
Defender of the Society
Hermean Paragon
Feats & Rage Powers:
1st
Power Attack
Furious Focus
Diehard
Endurance
3rd
Combat Reflexes
Superstition*
5th
Extra Rage Power - Auspicious Mark
Lesser Beast Totem
7th
Combat Expertise
Guarded Life*
9th
Stalwart
Beast Totem*
11th
Improved Stalwart
Reckless Abandon*
13th
Extra Rage Power - Come and Get Me
Greater Beast Totem*
15th
Extra Rage Power - Increased DR
Greater Guarded Life*
17th
Extra Rage Power - Increased DR
Renewed Vigor*
19th
Extra Rage Power - Increased DR
Regenerative Vigor*
Here's the deal - this character was designed to fight with a Bardiche as a reach weapon, and Beast Totem allows him to grow claws so that he can make adjacent attacks as well. He will have DR 24/- at 20th level which should be enough for you to win the fight all by yourself, but there's also a trick to him - due to Guarded Life and Greater Guarded life, whenever you take damage that would put you lower than zero you can convert the first 40 points of damage to non-lethal which you have an effective DR 48/- against, then the remaining has to penetrate your DR 24/- against lethal. That's going to make you pretty hard to kill. Moreover, once you activate Regenerative Vigor you will heal 4d8 hit points and gain Fast Healing:3 as well. The Fighter has no class features that allow him to heal.
At 20th level BEFORE you add in any equipment, this character should have combat statistic pretty close to this when Raging:
20th level
Attack +28/+17/+12/+9
+20/+15/+10/+5 [BAB] +6 [Str] +3 [Rage] -0/-6 [PA] -6 [Stalwart] +5 [Reckless]
Damage 1d10+31
1d10 [Bardiche] +9 [Str] +4 [Rage] +18 [PA]
Hit Points 277 (1d10+19d12+139), AC 10, DR 24/-, Fortitude +14, Reflex +8, Will +6
(+7 save vs. Spells/Spell-like abilities, +4 Will saves vs. Enchantments)
Remember that your DR applies against all of his attacks, pop your Renewed/Regenerative Vigor the first chance you get, use Come and Get Me and your 5' step to get more attacks than him and this fight should be cake. Again, I recommend you avoid purchasing magical equipment for the reasons mentioned above. Its about what your character can do, not about what the player can buy.
EDIT: Didn't see the limitations on books, and if I were specifically making a build for a one-on-one match-up I'd definitely include some of the options mentioned above. Superstition for example does nothing for you in a Fighter duel, but Intimidating Glare/Terrifying Howl obviously would.
I noticed however that your ultimate Barbarian still had to cheese a level of fighter to pull his tricks off.
So it still takes a fighter to beat a fighter. :)
I think its been demonstrated pretty clearly that isn't the case by many of the posts above. This is hardly an 'ultimate' Barbarian, it just happened to be the only Barbarian I had on hand fully built - obviously that one level of Fighter isn't necessary, especially given that the character wouldn't need his layers of magical protection in this fight.
And if taking a level of Fighter for a martial character is your definition of 'cheese', I'd hate to see some of your characters...
Dump int and cha to 7, start with a 20str and 16 con.
Invulnerable Rager 20
items of need:
+5 furious, keen, speed falcata
+6str,dex,con belt
+6cha headband
+4charisma book
+5con book
+5dex book
pale green ion stone
whatever else u want.. ac isnt really a factor because hes gonna hit u regardless.. its all about u hitting hard imo
Stat progression:
str- 20, +5level,+6belt,+8rage,+8size,+6inherent = 53
dex- 11, +6belt,+5inherent,-2size = 20
con-16, +6belt,+5inherent,+6size,+10rage = 43
int-7
wis-10
cha-7 +6headband,+4inherent = 17
feats:
human-power attack
1st-ewp falcata
5th-raging vatality
7th-combat reflexes
9th-skill focus surv.
11th-eldritch heritage- orc
13th-imp eldritch heritage- orc
15th-dazing assault
17th-greater eldritch heritage- orc
19th-quicken sla- touch of rage
rage powers:
2nd-lesser beast
4th-reckless abandon
6th-beast totem
8th-strength surge
10th-greater beast totem
12th-flesh wound
14th-come and get me
16th-smasher
18th-fiend totem
20th-?
So:
bab +20/15/10/5
str +21
weapon +7
reckless abandon +6
touch of rage +8
total including power attack:
+56/+56/+51/+46/+41 for 2d6+56 17/20x3
-5 for dazing attack dc 30
6 attack of opp. per round with come and get me
i think this would beat a lv 20 fighter..
Dump int and cha to 7, start with a 20str and 16 con.
Invulnerable Rager 20
OP said only one dump stat to 8.
The two handed fighter archetype is basically unbeatable in a PVP situation against any other melee, as long as it is even semi optimized.
Because he can pump out over 300 damage in a standard action plus trigger stunning/blinding criticals.
He can't do that if he drops his sword and runs away screaming like a little girl. Terrifying Howl sounds better and better.
Or if he has his weapon sundered. Smasher could take care of that. And Pounce allows it to be done even if they don't start side-to-side, which is, IMO, the most likely scenario. After all, how many battles actually start with opponents less than 10ft away from each other?
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I think you can do it. ignore your AC and max out your DR, hitpoints, to hit and damage. Beast totem, improved DR and Reckless Abandon and Gaurded life will be great rage powers with come and get me. You charge in with your full attack, come and get me and count on your enormous hit points, DR and Non-lethal damage to save you when you go for the kill.
I think it is always going to comedown to a matter of who goes first though.
Good luck!
Here's a barbarian option I through together real quick. I forgot to give him an archetype. I would probably go with Invulnerable Rager. This build doesn't show which class is better though. It shows who can build a better character and who can have the better tactics for a limited arena. A fighter without his weapons and armor is next to useless especially in combat.
This guy likes to sunder, a lot. He will sunder your armor, your weapons, your gear, etc. When he's done stripping you of your items, he will be glad to sunder your flesh from your bones. I didn't give him any way to deal with ranged attacks because he has a flying mount (not a great one at all but it's still a flying mount) and because it looks like you're going to be in melee.
UNNAMED HERO CR 19
Male Human Barbarian 20
CN Large Humanoid (Human)
Init +5; Senses Perception +2
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DEFENSE
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AC 26, touch 8, flat-footed 25. . (+11 armor, +7 shield, +1 Dex, -1 size)
hp 425 (20d12+260)
Fort +26, Ref +8, Will +12
Defensive Abilities Improved Uncanny Dodge (Lv >=24), Trap Sense; DR 8/—
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 30 ft.
Melee Heavy Shield Bash +29/+24/+19/+14 (1d6+27/20/x2) and
. . +5 Speed, Wounding Adamantine Greatsword +34/+34/+29/+24/+19 (3d6+45/17-20/x2)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks Smasher (1/rage)
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STATISTICS
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Str 24/40, Dex 14/12, Con 20/36, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8/14
Base Atk +20; CMB +37 (+41 Sundering); CMD 45 (49 vs. Disarm, 51 vs. Sunder)
Feats Bleeding Critical, Bloody Assault, Critical Focus, Furious Focus, Greater Sunder, Improved Critical: Greatsword, Improved Initiative, Improved Sunder, Power Attack -6/+12, Raging Vitality, Sundering Strike
Skills Acrobatics +21, Appraise +1, Bluff +3, Climb +12, Diplomacy +23, Disguise +3, Escape Artist +18, Fly -4, Heal +2, Intimidate +26, Perception +2, Ride +21, Sense Motive +2, Stealth -6, Survival +2, Swim +12
Languages Common
SQ Fast Movement +10 (Ex), Gloves of Dueling, Guarded Stance +4 (13 rds) (Ex), Increase Damage Reduction (Ex), Increase Damage Reduction (Ex), Increase Damage Reduction (Ex), Indomitable Will (Ex), Mighty Swing (1/rage) (Ex), Powerful Blow +6 (1/rage) (Ex), Rage (47 rounds/day) (Ex), Roused Anger (Ex), Strength Surge +20 (1/rage) (Ex), Unexpected Strike (1/rage) (Ex)
Combat Gear +5 Animated Shield, Heavy Steel, +5 Fortification, Heavy Breastplate, +5 Speed, Wounding Adamantine Greatsword; Other Gear Belt of Physical Might, STR & CON +6, Cloak of Displacement, Major, Figurine, Bronze Griffon, Gloves of Dueling, Headband of Alluring Charisma, +6, Ioun Stone, Pale Green Prism, Manual of Bodily Health, +4, Manual of Gainful Exercise, +5, Periapt of Wound Closure
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TRACKED RESOURCES
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Mighty Swing (1/rage) (Ex) - 0/1
Powerful Blow +6 (1/rage) (Ex) - 0/1
Rage (47 rounds/day) (Ex) - 0/47
Smasher (1/rage) (Ex) - 0/1
Strength Surge +20 (1/rage) (Ex) - 0/1
Unexpected Strike (1/rage) (Ex) - 0/1
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Bleeding Critical Critical Hits deal 2d6 bleed damage.
Bloody Assault Take -5 to all attacks and maneuvers until your next turn to add 1d4 bleed damage to all weapon melee attacks.
Critical Focus +4 to confirm critical hits.
Damage Reduction (8/-) You have Damage Reduction against all attacks.
Fast Movement +10 (Ex) +10 feet to speed, unless heavily loaded.
Furious Focus If you are wielding a weapon in two hands, ignore the penalty for your first attack of each turn.
Gloves of Dueling These supple leather gloves grant the wearer gains a +4 bonus to his CMD against disarm attacks, attempts to sunder his wielded weapons, and effects that cause him to lose his grip on his weapons (such as grease). The wearer doesn’t drop held weapons when panicked or stunned. If the wearer has the weapon training class feature and is using an appropriate weapon, his weapon training bonus increases by +2.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, greater magic weapon; Cost 7,500 gp
Greater Sunder +2 to Sunder, excess damage is transferred to the wielder.
Guarded Stance +4 (13 rds) (Ex) Gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC vs. melee attacks while raging.
Improved Sunder You Sunder at +4 and don't cause an attack of opportunity.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Lv >=24) (Ex) Retain DEX bonus to AC when flat-footed. You cannot be flanked unless the attacker is Level 24+.
Increase Damage Reduction (Ex) While raging, your DR increases by 1.
Increase Damage Reduction (Ex) While raging, your DR increases by 1.
Increase Damage Reduction (Ex) While raging, your DR increases by 1.
Indomitable Will (Ex) While in rage, a barbarian of 14th level or higher gains a +4 bonus on Will saves to resist enchantment spells. This bonus stacks with all other modifiers, including the morale bonus on Will saves she also receives during her rage.
Mighty Swing (1/rage) (Ex) Automatically confirm a critical while raging.
Power Attack -6/+12 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Powerful Blow +6 (1/rage) (Ex) One attack per rage deals +6 damage.
Rage (47 rounds/day) (Ex) +8 Str, +8 Con, +4 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Raging Vitality +2 CON while raging, Rage does not end if you become unconscious.
Roused Anger (Ex) You can rage even when fatigued.
Smasher (1/rage) (Ex) 1/rage, ignore the hardness of an unattended object.
Strength Surge +20 (1/rage) (Ex) Once per rage, add +20 to a STR check, CMB or CMD.
Sundering Strike Critical hit's confirmation roll is a Sunder maneuver check.
Trap Sense +6 (Ex) +6 bonus on reflex saves and AC against traps.
Unexpected Strike (1/rage) (Ex) Once per rage, gain an attack of opportunity against someone who moves into your threatened area.
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Spent the money on a permanent Enlarge Person effect.
--------------------
HIRELING CR 4
Male Griffon
NN Large Magical Beast
Init +2; Senses Darkvision, Low-Light Vision, Scent; Perception +12
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 17, touch 11, flat-footed 15. . (+2 Dex, -1 size, +6 natural)
hp 42 (5d10+15)
Fort +7, Ref +6, Will +4
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 30 ft., Flight (80 feet, Average)
Melee Bite (Griffon) +8 (1d6+3/20/x2) and
. . Rake x2 (Griffon) +7 x2 (1d4+3/20/x2) and
. . Talon x2 (Griffon) +7 x2 (1d6+3/20/x2)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks Pounce
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STATISTICS
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Str 16, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 5, Wis 13, Cha 8
Base Atk +5; CMB +9; CMD 21 (25 vs. Trip)
Feats Iron Will, Skill Focus: Perception, Weapon Focus: Bite
Skills Acrobatics +10, Fly +6, Perception +12, Stealth -2
Languages
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TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
. . -none-
--------------------
SPECIAL ABILITIES
--------------------
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Flight (80 feet, Average) You can fly!
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Pounce (Ex) You can make a full attack as part of a charge.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.
A level 20 character with greater Eldritch Heritage would have morale bonuses to attack and damage of plus 10 I believe, as that feat lets character level equal sorcerer level. So WerePox47's Barbarian would be doing slightly more damage.
A level 20 character with greater Eldritch Heritage would have morale bonuses to attack and damage of plus 10 I believe, as that feat lets character level equal sorcerer level. So WerePox47's Barbarian would be doing slightly more damage.
Eldritch Heritage can give them wings, familiars, a +6 to Str. Even a spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.
Lots of bizarre stuff that IMO, should not be part ot a melee competition.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. The reference was to WerePox47's Orc Bloodline Barbarian.
I like the invulnerable rager, I used a character like that in a game, it was a lot of fun. As for items, get: ring of blinking and cloak of displacement. He'll have to make 2 50/50 rolls on each attack to even hit you.(unless he has a true seeing item)
A better way to measure the potential of a barbarian vs a fighter (and other classes) is to run a LOT of group vs group battles. For example decide upon groups of 4 characters.
Make two identical teams and let one team use a fighter and one a barbarian instead of the fighter. Try lots of different barbarian builds vs lots of different fighter builds. Which team comes out the victor?
Of course, for this to have any actual significance, you'd need A LOT OF BATTLES. You could even swap out characters if you ran, say, 20 battles with one particular team, then swapped out one character and ran 20 more battles (while the opposing team is identical). After a while you'll be able to see which character has the most to offer the group as a whole.
If there was some practical way to automate this (which there isn't afaik) one could theoretically evaluate all classes like this. Use it to find optimal builds and so on. This is especially true because a situation of a group of heroes fighting another group of "heroes" (or characters anyway) is far more likely to occur in game than one fighter fighting one barbarian.
I'd be careful about invulnerable rager. There are two fighter feats that automatically negate 10 points of any dr. He might see this one coming and take those.
Now if you wanted to play real dirty take improved unarmed and improved grapple. Then you pin him and tie him up in a couple rounds. You should have a major advantage doing this and don't be afraid to frontload it. Odds are he's not going to take a ring of freedom of movement for a brawl.
Barbs have more skills so if you're on a different battlefield you can try to beat him by using the fundamentals (jumping, climbing, swimming). You're going to be faster than him, use that.
He also sucks at reflex saves and probably doesn't have a touch AC, hurling might not be a bad option either.
Get a good ranged weapon, he might try to kite you. Get a few potions that deal with small problems, including things he would do to you.
EDIT: You also get perception, he doesn't. You can also afford to toss some ranks in stealth. Unless you're fighting on final destination use that too then sneak up and grapple him while he's flat footed. Save your Str Surge for the pin.
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Beast Totem, Greater (Su)
Benefit: While raging, the barbarian gains the pounce special ability, allowing her to make a full attack at the end of a charge. In addition, the damage from her claws increases to 1d8 (1d6 if Small) and the claws deal x 3 damage on a critical hit.
Pounce (Ex)
When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can make a full attack (including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability).
Full Attack
If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.
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Step 1:Grab a bow.
Step 2: Make sure you have a bite attack.
Step 3: First Round dump a CRAP ton of chickens all over the arena.
Step 4: Charge Chickens with your bite attack and turn and shoot the Fighter. Always stay out of range by charging a new chicken away from him.
Step 5: Laugh
I'd be careful about invulnerable rager. There are two fighter feats that automatically negate 10 points of any dr. He might see this one coming and take those.
Penetrating Strike (Combat)
Your attacks are capable of penetrating the defenses of some creatures.Prerequisites: Weapon Focus, base attack bonus +1, 12th-level fighter, proficiency with weapon.
Benefit: Your attacks with weapons selected with Weapon Focus ignore up to 5 points of damage reduction. This feat does not apply to damage reduction without a type (such as DR 10/—).
Greater Penetrating Strike (Combat)
Your attacks penetrate the defenses of most foes.
Prerequisites: Penetrating Strike, Weapon Focus, 16th-level fighter.
Benefit: Your attacks with weapons selected with Weapon Focus ignore up to 10 points of damage reduction. This amount is reduced to 5 points for damage reduction without a type (such as DR 10/—).
At best he can ignore 5 points of Damage Reduction after he spends three feats (one of which he will probably take anyway). It can certainly help but it will take Greater Penetrating Strike to ignore 5 points.
Sorry for no answer eirler, i had to take a exam in the university. T.T
Oh God Alot of recomendeions.........so, the idea i have in mind is that if i wanna make a good work in this fight is using CM against the fighter.
But the idea of Lemmy are very good for me ...
i mean...
My Turn: Full Action attack. Move 5 feets away from the Fighter
His Turn: He Moves to atack, but WAIT! i have Unexpected Strike ...so i have a AoO.
and i was thinking. For more Lethal situation:
My Turn: I active Come and get Me (Free Action), Full Attack, move 5 feets Aways.
His Turn: He moves, again AoO for Unexpected Stike, and when his try to hit me! WAIT another AoO, and if i have Quick Reflexes i have another chance to make an AoO. But, after i will take -4 in AC and +4 en Damage. But Anyways, i mean.....thats are alot of attacks for the Barbarian!.
Uhm Something to say.
The way we play are less whit less fantasy, i mean, we dont like use Rings whit Speells on it, or something like, and like Story Archer says, all the equipement are very basic, stuff enchanted +5 and some hability in special, but nothing to big or fanzy, so i dont Spect that Joaco (My frind how are gonna to Fight this Saturday) use that kind of items, like ring of blinking and cloak of displacement, cuz we are try to see how can we use our habilities class, no how we select the best magic item (I have to clear, that make the right decision about items is very hard for me and very usefull, but maybe thats why aour group dont use too much magic items.)
Story Archer i like the way you build that Barbarian, but some Feats and rage power are from Ultimate Combat, and we are not use that book, we dont used it to play, so we dont used to fight this pvp.
Maybe he use the archetype of Two-handed Fighter, i am in big troubles. I was thinking to use Ground Breaker. I mean for the Difficult Terrain, and the Fighter had to use Full Action to move, he cant attack me, and whit my U.S, Pum attack of oportunity!. (Thats a variable.)
At best he can ignore 5 points of Damage Reduction after he spends three feats (one of which he will probably take anyway). It can certainly help but it will take Greater Penetrating Strike to ignore 5 points.
But i want to put Incresed DR (Rage Power), that giveS a DR 5/- more, maiking a total of DR 15/-, in that case the Greater Penetrating Strike is usefull?.
No love for my Chicken Charge tactic? lol
No love for my Chicken Charge tactic? lol
I not too good whit english, so i was trying understand it. XD
I made this build rather quickly with the idea of a barb who might stand toe to toe and trade blows with a fighter. Might not be ideal, but it was fun to do! I don't think anything was too cheesy, except maybe using all the tomes, heh. But what-the-hey it was just a bit of fun!
Male Human Barbarian (Savage Barbarian) 20:
CN Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +13; Senses Perception +22
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DEFENSE
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AC 53, touch 29, flat-footed 38. . (+8 armor, +6 shield, +7 Dex, +10 natural, +5 deflection, +8 dodge)
hp 376 (20d12+240)
Fort +23, Ref +14, Will +9
Defensive Abilities Guarded Life, Improved Uncanny Dodge (Lv >=24), Spirit Totem; Resist Naked Courage +6
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OFFENSE
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Spd 70 ft.
Melee +5 Brilliant Energy, Furious Greatsword +32/+32/+27/+22/+17 (2d6+49/19-20/x2) and
. . Unarmed Strike +26/+26/+21/+16/+11 (1d3+28/20/x2)
Special Attacks Elemental Rage, Lesser (1/rage), Elemental Rage (Electricity), Spirit Totem, Lesser (+20, 1d8+0, 15' reach)
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STATISTICS
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Str 29/43, Dex 19/25, Con 19/33, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 10
Base Atk +20; CMB +31 (+35 Tricking); CMD 65 (67 vs. Dirty Trick, 66 vs. Trip)
Feats Bloody Assault, Combat Expertise +/-6, Combat Reflexes (8 AoO/round), Dodge, Furious Focus, Greater Dirty Trick, Improved Dirty Trick, Improved Initiative, Power Attack -6/+12, Step Up, Toughness +20
Traits Log Roller (forest), Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +31, Climb +39, Intimidate +23, Perception +22, Sense Motive +19, Swim +39
Languages Common
SQ Fast Movement +10 (Ex), Guarded Stance +4 (11 rds) (Ex), Indomitable Will (Ex), Mighty Swing (1/rage) (Ex), Rage (46 rounds/day) (Ex), Rolling Dodge +4 (11 rds) (Ex), Spirit Totem, Greater (Su), Strength Surge +20 (1/rage) (Ex)
Combat Gear +5 Brilliant Energy, Furious Greatsword, +5 Fortification, Heavy Buckler; Other Gear Amulet of Natural Armor +5, Bag of Holding IV (empty), Belt of Physical Perfection, +6, Boots of Speed (10 rounds/day), Bracers of Armor, +8, Ioun Stone, Dusty Rose Prism, Manual of Bodily Health, +5, Manual of Gainful Exercise, +5, Manual of Quickness of Action, +5, Ring of Protection, +5
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Bloody Assault Take -5 to all attacks and maneuvers until your next turn to add 1d4 bleed damage to all weapon melee attacks.
Combat Expertise +/-6 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Combat Reflexes (8 AoO/round) You may make up to 8 attacks of opportunity per round, and may make them while flat-footed.
Elemental Rage, Lesser (1/rage) (Su) 1/rage, attack deals +1D6 energy damage.
Elemental Rage: Electricity (Su) Attacks deal +1d6 energy damage while raging.
Fast Movement +10 (Ex) +10 feet to speed, unless heavily loaded.
Furious Focus If you are wielding a weapon in two hands, ignore the penalty for your first attack of each turn.
Greater Dirty Trick +2 to Dirty Trick, penalty lasts longer and takes a standard action to remove.
Guarded Life (20 HP) (Ex) If reduced below 0HP, convert some damage to non-lethal. Auto-stabilize below 0HP.
Guarded Stance +4 (11 rds) (Ex) Gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC vs. melee attacks while raging.
Improved Dirty Trick Dirty Trick at +2, without an attack of opportunity.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Lv >=24) (Ex) Retain DEX bonus to AC when flat-footed. You cannot be flanked unless the attacker is Level 24+.
Indomitable Will (Ex) While in rage, a barbarian of 14th level or higher gains a +4 bonus on Will saves to resist enchantment spells. This bonus stacks with all other modifiers, including the morale bonus on Will saves she also receives during her rage.
Mighty Swing (1/rage) (Ex) Automatically confirm a critical while raging.
Naked Courage +6 (Ex) +6 AC and save vs. fear when not wearing armor.
Power Attack -6/+12 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Rage (46 rounds/day) (Ex) +8 Str, +8 Con, +4 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Rolling Dodge +4 (11 rds) (Ex) Gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC vs. ranged attacks while raging.
Spirit Totem (Su) While raging, 20% concealment from non-adjacent attacks.
Spirit Totem, Greater (Su) Adjacent creatures take 1d8 damage at the beginning of your action.
Spirit Totem, Lesser (+20, 1d8+0, 15' reach) (Su) Spirits attack 1/round at +20 to hit, dealing 1d8+0 negative energy damage with 15' reach.
Step Up You may make a 5' step closer when your opponent makes a 5' step away from you.
Strength Surge +20 (1/rage) (Ex) Once per rage, add +20 to a STR check, CMB or CMD.
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Starting abilities were Str 17, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 10... and adds another +4 dodge to AC with guarded and rolling stance!
I had forgot about the stun/stag crit feats the fighter would certainly bring to the table. My answer for this cloak of displacement for miss chance and heavy fortification on ur armor for 75% crit negation.. No crit = no crit feats.. Even if he does manage to get u staggerd u still get to make AoO vs every attack he makes and god help him if u crit.. Thats 200damage with my build... And if the barb wins intitiative its prob over anyways, charging pounce for 5 attacks none of which will miss but on a 1.. i would put my barb against any fighter in this challenge, but hey i guess i have a soft spot for me ever since i 1 rounded an ancient black dragon before he ever got an action.. DM made me roll somthing else up lol..
brutal pugilist, grapple him and squeeze the fighter to death
Well I had a big post, then it got eaten....
For starters, the limit on books really limits the advice I can give you, otherwise I would have suggested playing a mounted fury barbarian with spirited attack and crane style feats. you can move and attack, then retreat and he can only attack you once. You can ignore that one attack a round and become essentially untouchable. Main weakness is mobile fighter, but if he is expecting a 1-1 with the barbarian, chances are he will not play that character.
With this kind of matchup, barbarian vs fighter, it becomes a game of pokemon.
Player 1: I summon fire pokemon!
Player 2: I summon water pokemon!
Player 1: crap!
or
Player 1: I summon a fighter type!
Player 2: I summon a Ghost!
While you can always play a grappler in hopes that he builds a 2-hander, I would suggest playing a more general character, in the hopes of countering more fighter 'types'. Take a one handed weapon so you can attack while grappled, or wield it 2 handed if needed. try to be able to attack with reach, as well as melee so grab lunge. try to limit his attacks as much as possible, concealment will be golden. Take terrifying howl incase he has low saves. Being capable in a grapple is probably a must, both incase he wields a two hander or if he grapples himself. Sundering, tripping or disarming can be your best friend, or could be completely useless.
As stated, invulnerable rager with guarded life can make you hard to kill, but I would shy away from regenerative vigor as that only lasts as long as you rage, so no rage cycling.
A half ork, scarred rager with terrifying howl and the persuasive feat will have a minimum of +36 to intimidate and could have him shaken for quite a while.
Ground breaker, as you mentioned, would stop him from charging, but not from moving next to you then standard attacking. The dc to avoid prone is a measly 15. not worth it IMO
The hurling rage power will be useless in this matchup as it is a full round action and also requires the large bolder near you. You could, at most, hurl 1 rock at your opponent before he reaches you and you then have 3 useless feats. this also requires the gm being nice enough to grant you the boulder in the first place.
Sundering can work really well, especially with strength surge and smasher powers. add in sundering strike and greater sunder, if you sunder your opponents armour, you destroy it, deal damage to him, and if you crit, you also get to sunder his weapon for free and deal damage to him again if it goes through. Pity no UC or you could add furious finish to deal maximum damage on the strike.
If I were to build this, I would go in a different direction. Focusing on grappling and high str bonuses. With improved/greater grappling, improved eldritch heritage (ork), quicken spell like ability (on your touch of rage, touch yourself for a +10 to hit and damage), auspicious mark, strength surge, and sundering strike. For items, I would include Giant hide armour, 4 ioun stones (pale blue, pink and green, and 2 flawed onyx) for a total of +2 str, +4 con, +2 car. your str should be somewhere around 48 and your cmb will also be really high. With the giant hide, you turn into a storm giant and can then grapple your opponent and pin him, then kill him at your leisure. I would also advise starting combat with a broken great axe (15gp) witch you drop as soon as you enter melee, so your opponent does not suspect you grapple >:)
This requires access to ultimate magic for eldritch heritage, witch I dont believe you have. If not take out the eldritch heritage and the quicken sla feats. your str will drop by 6 and you lose +10 to hit and damage. If uc is allowed, add in body bludgeon and start sundering the floor with that measly fighter >:D see how far into the ground you can get before he is considered a 'useless weapon' >:D