ok thanks, just wanted to be sure before one of my players (potentially) ends up with this.
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Y'know, in reading about that trap, I can't help imagining the hilarity that would ensue if Sorshen had, in anticipation of seeing far more dangerous intruders than the module assumes, had one of her mind-whammied spellslingers bypass phantasmal killer and gone straight for the 'with extreme prejudice' option of disintegrate. :D Especially if there's no discontinuity of consciousness in the process.
[*POOF!* and a green flash, and the luckless character's clothes and gear clatter to the floor. As the dust-motes of their previous body drift through the air, their new incarnation sits up.]
"Guys, what the hell was that? Why am I in the sarcophagus? Why's all my stuff lying on the floor? ... With my clothes?"
"..."
"... Why are you all staring at me like that?"
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"... Why are you all staring at me like that?"
"I thought they'd be bigger."
Shards of Sin mentions the characters should be level 4 by the end yet Curse states they're 5 at the start. While minor, where was(were) the intended level up(s)?
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Shards of Sin mentions the characters should be level 4 by the end yet Curse states they're 5 at the start. While minor, where was(were) the intended level up(s)?
My PDF of Shards of Sin reads (in advancement track)
The PCs should reach 4th level during their exploration of the Ancient Laboratories.The PCs should be well into 5th level by the end of this adventure.
In room L20 (Grand Ballroom) : "four statues of a beautiful woman
guard a large stage". In the map, there are two golden symbols in that stage. Are them pillars? Does the stage serves any purpose? The text also read "below the stage sits none other than Runelord Sorshen ". Below means "on" here? Maybe I am translating "stage" wrong, I see it just as a higher floor, but surely Im wrong?
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In room L20 (Grand Ballroom) : "four statues of a beautiful woman
guard a large stage". In the map, there are two golden symbols in that stage. Are them pillars? Does the stage serves any purpose? The text also read "below the stage sits none other than Runelord Sorshen ". Below means "on" here? Maybe I am translating "stage" wrong, I see it just as a higher floor, but surely Im wrong?
The four statues guarding the stage are the four circles that stand just east of the stage; the southernmost of them located right next to the secret door to L21. The stage itself was used to house orchestras and other musicians who provided music for the ballroom; it doesn't really have a big use in the room today apart from being some terrain that can be taken advantage of in a combat.
Below the stage means she's seated in front of the stage, below the edge that leads up to the stage itself.
Just finished this book a few days ago, And it has been some fun. Our haunted metal oracle got whammied with the Sorshen trap and, unknowingly, negated all the social benefits he could have reaped from it by refusing to take his helmet off till he "got better". Much laughter has been had. I must say I love these kinds of "events" in pathfinder games.
On a different note, I posted this question in the rules forum, but maybe here might be better. Direct quote:
During the events of book 2, Curse of the Lady's light, the Grey Maidens have a tactic of "using bull rush to force PCs into squares occupied by other enemies or furniture in order to make them fall down".
Is this a valid use of bull rush, as I can't find rules for it anywhere?
The rules actually seem to the contrary.
You cannot bull rush a creature into a square that is occupied by a solid object or obstacle.
Yeah, that seems pretty cut and dried to me.
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Just finished this book a few days ago, And it has been some fun. Our haunted metal oracle got whammied with the Sorshen trap and, unknowingly, negated all the social benefits he could have reaped from it by refusing to take his helmet off till he "got better". Much laughter has been had. I must say I love these kinds of "events" in pathfinder games.
On a different note, I posted this question in the rules forum, but maybe here might be better. Direct quote:
During the events of book 2, Curse of the Lady's light, the Grey Maidens have a tactic of "using bull rush to force PCs into squares occupied by other enemies or furniture in order to make them fall down".
Is this a valid use of bull rush, as I can't find rules for it anywhere?
The rules actually seem to the contrary.
Yup; it's valid. It's a weird artifact of the way the game is designed, since it's awkward to have a game where minis often would end up occupying the same space, so if two creatures end up sharing a square during combat, one of them more or less has to either move or it gets knocked down.
Unless they're swarms or morlocks.
You can't end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.
Sometimes a character ends its movement while moving through a space where it's not allowed to stop. When that happens, put your miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal position, if there's a legal position that's closer.
Nothing there about falling prone, unless it's a special ability of Bull Rushing, but all I saw there was that you can't bull rush a creature into a square containing an obstacle.
Yup; it's valid. It's a weird artifact of the way the game is designed, since it's awkward to have a game where minis often would end up occupying the same space, so if two creatures end up sharing a square during combat, one of them more or less has to either move or it gets knocked down.
Unless they're swarms or morlocks.
...I get the whole "in same square, someones got to fall down" scenario, but can people really bull-rush them into that predicament the way the tactics of the grey maidens describes?
Question regarding the Seugathi in room K21. In the Bestiary 2 on page 243 the weapon it has equipped is a masterwork short sword that does 1d8 damage which implies that the weapon is actually a short sword designed for a large creature (of which the Seugathi is). So does that mean that the +1 Keen Longsword that it is using instead in this adventure does 2d6 damage and is it a large longsword? If so, how do you you other DMs handle this? I mean, no one in the party is a large character and would not use the large weapon due to penalties to hit so do you just say that it is a medium weapon instead for this fight or do you allow weapons to shrink or grow to accommodate whoever will end up wielding it?
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Question regarding the Seugathi in room K21. In the Bestiary 2 on page 243 the weapon it has equipped is a masterwork short sword that does 1d8 damage which implies that the weapon is actually a short sword designed for a large creature (of which the Seugathi is). So does that mean that the +1 Keen Longsword that it is using instead in this adventure does 2d6 damage and is it a large longsword? If so, how do you you other DMs handle this? I mean, no one in the party is a large character and would not use the large weapon due to penalties to hit so do you just say that it is a medium weapon instead for this fight or do you allow weapons to shrink or grow to accommodate whoever will end up wielding it?
My guess would be that it's a Medium-sized +1 keen longsword which the seugathi is wielding as a shortsword. It's a CR7 encounter, and the guide says the party is supposed to be APL7 by the time they enter the dungeon's second level. That being so, IMO it's not really a 'boss' creature, just the 'last' encounter of that floor of the Lady's Light, and it's mainly there to provide the PCs with XP for winning a brisk fight and gear that goes into their inventory/arsenal.
My party had major problems with the Seugathi.
Question regarding the Seugathi in room K21. In the Bestiary 2 on page 243 the weapon it has equipped is a masterwork short sword that does 1d8 damage which implies that the weapon is actually a short sword designed for a large creature (of which the Seugathi is). So does that mean that the +1 Keen Longsword that it is using instead in this adventure does 2d6 damage and is it a large longsword? If so, how do you you other DMs handle this? I mean, no one in the party is a large character and would not use the large weapon due to penalties to hit so do you just say that it is a medium weapon instead for this fight or do you allow weapons to shrink or grow to accommodate whoever will end up wielding it?
Missing XP!
My players (party of 4) are about to get to the first dungeon level and are level 6 on a little over 23k XP
It states they should be level 7 by the time they reach the second dungeon level but I only count 33,600 (total party) XP available.
At the medium advancement track they need 35k XP each, that's a requirement of 48,000 total party XP needed (35k - 23k = 12k each or 48k party). They will be a little under 4,000 each short of target.
Or am I missing something here?
What do you think I should add to get them the required XP?
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Missing XP!
My players (party of 4) are about to get to the first dungeon level and are level 6 on a little over 23k XP
It states they should be level 7 by the time they reach the second dungeon level but I only count 33,600 (total party) XP available.
At the medium advancement track they need 35k XP each, that's a requirement of 48,000 total party XP needed (35k - 23k = 12k each or 48k party). They will be a little under 4,000 each short of target.
Or am I missing something here?
What do you think I should add to get them the required XP?
Are you counting XP from traps, story awards, and side quests?
If so, I suspect the problem is that the PCs entered the adventure with less XP than expected. If you're worried that they'll need more XP, in any event, feel free to have them encounter a few additional wandering monsters.
Or, you know, just have them level at the appropiate points. The book points them out, after all.
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Or, you know, just have them level at the appropiate points. The book points them out, after all.
My assumption is that if someone's asking about exact XP point totals that the "just have them level at the appropriate points" isn't an interesting or attractive option to them, so this type of advice for this kind of question is not all that helpful.
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Thanks for the reply James.
I think part of the problem arises from my reading of the advancement track and that my players always seem to skip bits. I mistakenly assumed that they should reach lvl 6 just before entering the dungeon. A couple of thematic wandering monsters are called for I think.
Magnuskn - I have just leveled players at the appropriate place in a lot of previous AP's but find it a bit uninspiring and not very motivational, at least not for my group.
Or, you know, just have them level at the appropiate points. The book points them out, after all.My assumption is that if someone's asking about exact XP point totals that the "just have them level at the appropriate points" isn't an interesting or attractive option to them, so this type of advice for this kind of question is not all that helpful.
You should reconsider that, James. Lots of GMs I know are familiar with the option but have never tried it. I've been using it since 2nd Edition and never looked back. Every GM who has played in one of my campaigns has eventually told me they'd be using the "just level up" option in their next game as it cuts out a lot of math
So while it wasn't the answer Turkina B was looking for, it could be a useful answer for many readers. After all, the questioner isn't the only one benefiting from the answer.
PS: Shattered Star, with all its Side Quests for XP, is the first adventure in decades to make me wonder whether I shouldn't be using standard XP, so even I'm not 100% convinced in either direction.
Which brings me to something I've been meaning to talk about. How to make the Shattered Star Side Quests meaningful for parties that use the "just level up" XP system.
Many of them contain obvious rewards, such as gold. Others are easily made relevant by forging or improving relationships with key NPC's (such as Sabriyya Kalmeralm or Sheila Heidmarch). I make sure these result in actual improved attitudes from these NPCs.
Others are a bit more esoteric and require a bit more thought. Say, the wacky artist in Curse of the Lady's Light who wants succubus art. As a bit of a free spirit, she might be a love interest with some connections to Magnimar's seedier side. Or perhaps someone to whom the PC's owe a favor owes her a favor. This is the way I went in my campaign; Sheila Heidmarch asked for the PC's help on the artist's behalf.
This web of improved relationships is important in two ways. First, it gives the PC's allies to whom they can turn for support, and second it makes Magnimar and Varisia seem more real. The PC's know people who live in the place they're working to defend.
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Or, you know, just have them level at the appropiate points. The book points them out, after all.My assumption is that if someone's asking about exact XP point totals that the "just have them level at the appropriate points" isn't an interesting or attractive option to them, so this type of advice for this kind of question is not all that helpful.You should reconsider that, James. Lots of GMs I know are familiar with the option but have never tried it. I've been using it since 2nd Edition and never looked back. Every GM who has played in one of my campaigns has eventually told me they'd be using the "just level up" option in their next game as it cuts out a lot of math
So while it wasn't the answer Turkina B was looking for, it could be a useful answer for many readers. After all, the questioner isn't the only one benefiting from the answer.
PS: Shattered Star, with all its Side Quests for XP, is the first adventure in decades to make me wonder whether I shouldn't be using standard XP, so even I'm not 100% convinced in either direction.
I've actually played in several games that used the "level up when the GM says." It's really unsatisfying for me. Being able to come away from every session with more XP not only gives me proof of accomplishment for the session, but it also lets me anticipate when I'll be leveling up, and that sense of anticipation is significantly delightful. Furthermore, when I'm the GM, I really REALLY like being able to tell the players after every session exactly how much XP they get for every action, since that lets me say things like, "You get 24,000 XP for killing the demons, and 26,000 XP for talking your way into the inner sanctum, and 30,000 for rescuing the vicar from the shredders." AKA: It's an excellent way to provide proof to your players that non-combat encounters can be just as or even more rewarding than simply going for the swords and spells, and helps to encourage and reward multiple types of roleplaying solutions.
The "just level up" method DOES cut down on the math, but for me, the loss of being able to specifically reward players with points for doing good things that aren't necessarily killing monsters and the loss of the anticipation of watching that number creep up are not worth it. Especially with the math in Pathfinder being so much easier to do than 3rd editions.
I don't use it, because I would like the players to level up at the point I want them to and the adventures now give us easy guidelines when that is. I don't want some random encounter to dictate to me as a GM or a lack of encounters, because the group missed two encounters that the point I regard as the right one to level just has been blown up by random chance.
I understand James's point, and it is valid for many players and GMs, but I'm with Magnuskn on this one. I never want to have to pad out a good adventure with another encounter just to make the XP work out right - that's just a waste of good narrative pacing.
Imagine you're watching Star Wars and Luke is racing towards the Death Star...but then some random TIE Fighter pilot kills him because Luke didn't level up in time and the Death Star is now too high a CR. Or in the alternative Luke spends several scenes fights Tusken Raiders until he hears a "DING!" and then boards his X-WIng.
Anyway, my post above wasn't arguing that one point of view is better or worse, just that Magnuskn's post might have been helpful to some readers.
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I understand James's point, and it is valid for many players and GMs, but I'm with Magnuskn on this one. I never want to have to pad out a good adventure with another encounter just to make the XP work out right - that's just a waste of good narrative pacing.
Imagine you're watching Star Wars and Luke is racing towards the Death Star...but then some random TIE Fighter pilot kills him because Luke didn't level up in time and the Death Star is now too high a CR. Or in the alternative Luke spends several scenes fights Tusken Raiders until he hears a "DING!" and then boards his X-WIng.
Anyway, my post above wasn't arguing that one point of view is better or worse, just that Magnuskn's post might have been helpful to some readers.
You don't have to pad it out if you're using XP; if for some reason your group comes up short (either because they skipped a section of an adventure or whatever), just artifically inflate some of the story awards. The PCs won't notice, most likely, and if they do they won't care since getting XP is fun!
That said, the method of just leveling up when the GM says absolutely works for some groups; and that's why we support that mode of play as well in our Adventure Paths by listing when you should level up with that method.
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I've actually played in several games that used the "level up when the GM says." It's really unsatisfying for me. Being able to come away from every session with more XP not only gives me proof of accomplishment for the session, but it also lets me anticipate when I'll be leveling up, and that sense of anticipation is significantly delightful. Furthermore, when I'm the GM, I really REALLY like being able to tell the players after every session exactly how much XP they get for every action, since that lets me say things like, "You get 24,000 XP for killing the demons, and 26,000 XP for talking your way into the inner sanctum, and 30,000 for rescuing the vicar from the shredders." AKA: It's an excellent way to provide proof to your players that non-combat encounters can be just as or even more rewarding than simply going for the swords and spells, and helps to encourage and...Or, you know, just have them level at the appropiate points. The book points them out, after all.My assumption is that if someone's asking about exact XP point totals that the "just have them level at the appropriate points" isn't an interesting or attractive option to them, so this type of advice for this kind of question is not all that helpful.You should reconsider that, James. Lots of GMs I know are familiar with the option but have never tried it. I've been using it since 2nd Edition and never looked back. Every GM who has played in one of my campaigns has eventually told me they'd be using the "just level up" option in their next game as it cuts out a lot of math
So while it wasn't the answer Turkina B was looking for, it could be a useful answer for many readers. After all, the questioner isn't the only one benefiting from the answer.
PS: Shattered Star, with all its Side Quests for XP, is the first adventure in decades to make me wonder whether I shouldn't be using standard XP, so even I'm not 100% convinced in either direction.
Using XP to let players know that roleplaying and non combat solutions work just as well as combat is redundant, since the reason players usualy feel an itch to fight in the first place is because defeating monsters rewards you with XP. If you just remove XP from the game, than the players can be focused more on the actual goals of the PCs and less about farming XP.
I believe in a game of pathfinder the "rewards" players need for defeating encounters are that their characters removed another obstacle from their path to complete whatever quest they are bent on doing. Players should be happy about defeating the demons, getting into the inner sanctum, and rescuing the vicar", not about getting 80,000 XP. But if at the end of each session you hand out XP for those things, then you are creating anticipation towards that, and the players would be less focused on what theyv'e actualy done and more about their "reward" about it, which is in the first place just a game mechanic used to track advancment. In short, I find XP distracting from the actual content of the game.Sure, getting XP is fun, but I prefer to have that kind of a mechanic in an MMO or some other kind of game that is more focused on grinding and hoarding loot than on actual roleplaying. That's just my personal opinion, but I really find it hard to believe that handing experience points for thing dosen't break immersion even a little bit...
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What I mean is, if all a player thinks about is completing his PC's goal, than he IS going to use whatever means he thinks are required to do so with minimal risk. If stealth is called for, it will be used, and the same goes for diplomacy or any other way to bypass encounters without combat. the ONLY reason a player might believe he NEEDS to fight his way through everything is because XP and loot are usualy given at the end of a combat encounter. If you remove the idea of XP from your game than the game is no longer about defeating monsters, it's about... well, about whatever it is the adventure you are running is about. So giving XP rewards for non combat encounters and so called "story awards" for advancing in the story is just a way of perpetuating the use of the very game mechanic which created the problem in the first place (by problem I mean the idea many players have that the only way to tackle problems is combat and that they'll be better rewarded for it).
So that being the case, why bother?
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On another note what is the book in room K21 written in?
On another note what is the book in room K21 written in?
** spoiler omitted **
Per your spoilerized statement and question I'd say yes and yes.
That would have been my understanding of it too.
The seugathi slaughtered two of my five PCs and sent the rest packing without much injury to itself. That aura and its DC are just crazy for a DC 6 (or 7) creature.
Tell me I'm not the only one who lost multiple PCs to this monstrosity!
Sounds like something for the James Jacobs thread.
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I find it interesting how similar Sorshen is to Iggwilv. Both are similar in looks, power (Both are notorious for using Enchantment) and penchant for sexual manipulation. Sorshen also apprenticed herself to a great wizard (Xin in this case) and was also a member of a group of Seven (Seven Runelords. Oh. Both liked to bind and subdue demons. OK. That's it in my game, I'm either going to make Sorshen one of Iggwilv's alternate identities, like Louhi or a daughter.
The seugathi slaughtered two of my five PCs and sent the rest packing without much injury to itself. That aura and its DC are just crazy for a DC 6 (or 7) creature.
Tell me I'm not the only one who lost multiple PCs to this monstrosity!
That thing is brutal, my 4-player party was able to kill it, but only after one of the party members became permanently insane. mind fog plus it's aura is crazy.
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I am planning to run this module soon for pathfinder society organized play. Two things are troubling me. The first of which (should be obvious) when dealing with <spoiler= It's a trap!> one of the PCs turning into Sorshen's Clone in the first room of the dungeon </spoiler>, which falls under the part of the module sanctioned for organized play, how is the condition gained after the module handled? Clearly it is permanent according to the description, baring a boon granting a wish or miracle, but it does result in granting that character an unplayable race. Do I simply mark that on the chronicle sheet? "Race change" -GM signature and no questions asked when taken to another game how you made a character with +2 to all stats? Not that I am complaining. I just want to be thorough.
I did say two things, didn't I? The second part is the artifact that the PCs find. If they read the book, do they still get the +1 inherent bonus to Int? It, again, does not show up on the chronicle sheet, but important that I understand how this works so I can explain it to my players. (That is, assuming they survive the dungeon.)
You may want to click on "How to format your text" in order to see how to create a spoiler.
As for PFS, sadly neither of those things will have lasting impact on a PFS character because they are not on the chronicle sheet. If that hits your suspension of disbelief too hard, I suggest that you pick a different PFS scenario to play.
Question about the Sorshen clone. It appears that Sorshen is immortal along with other Rune Lords like Xanderghul. They have lived for thousands of years. Does this mean that the clone is also immortal?
I would say not, but given that most Pathfinder campaigns only last a few weeks, months or years of real time, I doubt the PC's will have the opportunity to learn the answer!
Question about the Sorshen clone. It appears that Sorshen is immortal along with other Rune Lords like Xanderghul. They have lived for thousands of years. Does this mean that the clone is also immortal?Nope. Sorshen's immortality is not something her clones share.
Thanks. I figured that was the answer but I was not 100% sure.
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Darnit! Sorry about that. I had the right format the first time I wrote that post.
Anyway, I'm not entirely convinced since curses still the guide states that curses remain in effect throughout the scenario. It would help if the Running Shattered Star Adventure Path supplement covered that encounter or at the very least said "Room L1: Remove this trap and put in a skeleton encounter of the same challenge rating" or something like that. My character has been turned into a monkey and a dog face humanoid, but those two conditions specifically stated "the effect ends when the mission objective is completed." The condition from Sorshen's Fury states that the effect can only be removed via wish, miracle, or true resurrection.
I'd assumed it was an ongoing magical process, not a trait of her body.
Either they have spells or potions or other items that they use to stay young.
I think it has something to do with blood. Maybe so much blood equals so many extra years due to some type of magical ritual. I am sure it is a very evil process.
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From what I read, each rune lord had their own way of staying young and/or extending their life. Only two of them ruled for the entire duration of the Thessalonian empire. The rest were the last in a line of rune lords. Sorshen used the clones to keep herself young (or that is at least part of her secret) Oddly enough, Necromancy was a restricted school for her. The only way she could have accomplished this would have been with help from a Necromancer (quite possibly Zutha, rune lord of Gluttony.)