I do know it's the most used skill in the game but is that the only reason to put all those skill points into it?
No, the other reason is that it's one of the most useful skills in the game. You can't fight what you can't perceive, after all.
Still, you don't have to put points in it.
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Yes
Edit: Okay, you don't have to put points in it. If you are part of a regular group you can always rely on someone else in the group that put a lot of points into it. Even then I would recommend it though. Even having a low chance of success with The Most Frequently Used Skill In The Game(tm) means that you will most likely have more successful uses of that skill than you will with a skill that you are good with, but rarely use.
It is a must have skill for me. Being ambushed and or sneak attacked is not fun at all. It also helps you to notice traps, hidden doors, and hidden items.
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I think most optimizers and many, if not most, experienced gamers will tell you that if there is ONE SKILL to pump up, that skill would be perception.
The Dump stat and lack of being a class skill will eventually get diluted by the number of class skills.
No other skill will get you extra actions in combat: ever. Perception sometimes will (by letting you act in the surprise round)
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Meh, I have sorcerer with 0 Perc and she does just fine. Just roll high! And there is always someone in the group who has high Perc. There are some drawbacks yes. For example we were fighting a drider the other day and it went invisible, I failed my perception and couldnt hear where it went, while the rest of the party knew where it was. Tried to Dispel Magic and missed. Not a big deal though. I wouldnt waste the skill points if you dont have very many, low wisdom and it not being a class skill for you.
I have made characters with low perception, and I always regret it. This skill is the primary reason I NEVER make Wisdom a dump stat. Take that 12 you first mentioned and toss it in Wisdom. My experience says you won't regret it.
On the flip side, I have been the DM when the guy with the poor perception makes his long-shot perception roll and saved the party from certain doom... or at least being surprised. Put those odds as far in your favor as possible. And get some Eyes of the Eagle!
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Then don't do it. At the end of the day, this is a subjective choice, and it's a question of priorities. You clearly don't see the benefit as being high enough.
I tend to agree with the general sentiment that it's worth puting ranks into even if you don't have it as a class skill and your wisdom isn't great.
With the sheer number of times that skill gets rolled, even a 30% chance of success means that you're succeeding at it a number of times per gaming session.
To add to what Eben said you can make make it into a class skill. You can also take skill focus. Another option is Eyes of the Eagle. By doing that you can have a higher perception than someone who has it as a class skill.
In short if you want a high perception despite it not bring a class skill originally you can still get one.
As to being able to keep up with a stealth based character it depends on how much they optimize for it, but that applies to every other opposing roll in the game also.
meh... dump perception then. It won't kill you.
Not directly.
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Why are ambushers always high DEX and highly skilled? That's a BS assumption.
ANY attacker would prefer to take the first attack...
Doing things so they have a non-zero chance of surprising somebody is a no-brainer.
You don't have to routinely notice uber-Stealth ninjas for the skill to be useful.
Comparing vs. Opposed Stealth of somebody optimized in that is a false comparison.
If you are so pressed for Skill Ranks that you can't invest in Perception,
I'm guessing you also can't invest in Stealth -> other characters are likely to not max Stealth as well.
It's not even just about 'ambushes', but hearing stuff happening on the other side of a wall, a battle raging on the other side of the fort, etc. Situational Awareness. Heck, ID'ing Potions is not extremely hard if you are trained, so when the party Caster is KO'd, it may be useful to ID their potions to heal them/yourself, or use looted enemy potions for the same. Same goes for when Party High WIS Perceptino dude is KO'd, having redundancy in basic awareness is highly useful.
Your understanding of Take 10 seems to be lacking... RAW: "You can't take 10 on a skill check to aid another."
Even if you could, if you are dumping WIS, Take 10 would no longer suffice for the DC 10.
Characters routinely get separated from each other (or are you really just a Familiar?)
... meaning you will need your own Perception occasionally.
There's plenty of low-ball Perception DCs, even for things like Invisibility, just to notice general presence, etc.
Certainly, if you're really pressed for Skill Ranks, like you have 1 or 2,
I could see not taking Perception (or just a small amount), but I could also see spending your few rank(s) ON Perception because it really is useful to have. If you have 3 or more Skill Ranks/level, Perception seems progressively more justifiable.
For the sake of the math, I will presume that your GM doesn't play where skills can critically succeed or fail. Also, I am giving ties to the sneak as that seems to be the one that would be opposed. I think the following should be correct.
Level 1
Your Perception: 1 (1 rank)
Their Stealth: 8 (1 rank, +3 class, +4 Dex)
Chance to Spot? 19.25% (About One in Five)
Level 10
Your Perception: 10 (10 ranks)
Their Stealth: 17 (10 ranks, +3 class, +4 Dex)
Chance to Spot? 19.25% (Seem Familiar?)
It will be the same all the way up unless one side increased a stat or takes a feat or gets an item or blah blah blah. Honestly? The spotters DC will probably get harder as the sneak will probably improve Dex more than the spotter improves Wis. But consider your GM. Some, like myself, won't always try to sneak with just the optimized characters. Also, consider this comparison with no ranks in Perception.
Level 1
Your Perception: 0
Their Stealth: 8 (1 rank, +3 class, +4 Dex)
Chance to Spot? 16.5% (Not Bad)
Level 10
Your Perception: 0
Their Stealth: 17 (10 ranks, +3 class, +4 Dex)
Chance to Spot? 0.75% (Ouch)
Level 12+
Your Perception: 0
Their Stealth: 19+ (12 ranks, +3 class, +4 Dex)
Chance to Spot? 0%
At this point, a level 1 pickpocket still has an 83.5% chance to not get caught by you. I hope your GM is nice enough to let you buy an Int headband attuned to the Perception skill. Conclusion: I would take Perception most of the time.
EDIT: Math was just a hair off for the checks with no ranks in perception (0.75 at Lvl 10 instead of 1.5). That has been corrected.
My current party only had one character with a high perception bonus, so I added that element to my character.
-1 for Wisdom 8
+5 for Eyes of the Eagle = 5000 gold
+X for Headband of Intellect +2 (Perception) = 4000 gold
So, at level 10, I now have a +14. I automatically succeed in aiding the rogue, and my independent role isn't bad either. That's 9000 gold, no skill points, no traits, no feats.
I can't see not putting points in Perception, I mean, I never heard of such a thing.
~_^
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I can't see not putting points in Perception, I mean, I never heard of such a thing.
~_^
Of course you can't see or hear when you aren't putting points in perception! :D
I agree perception is a very important skill, even if you dont max it everytime having at least a few ranks goes a long way.
If your camp gets attacked in the middle of then night you'll be glad you have it so you can roll out of bed.
Try putting a rank every other level if you dont have alot of skill points, even a lower perception is better than no perception.
Low perception score = high chance of death
I would never let total perception score be lower than my level.
Way to get around it build PC that flat foot AC is equal real AC. With high save total and high HP. And pray to dice gods for a lot of luck. So play a palidian.
You might have a 5 man party, two of which are good at perception. Not that big of a problem for actively searching.
What happens when you're on watch by yourself? Or god forbid your group members roll poorly. You don't HAVE to put every point you have in it, but at least one every other level will save your life more than once.
Most GM use as save or die type effect on trap cause you have many times not be hit by them. Ie perception check, touch attack and save. So you 3 chances to not get hit by nasty death ray. Your PC will only have 2. It like playing baseball and going up to bat with one strike count before you swing.
Side note I hope you have high iniatave score or else bad guy get to once in surprised round and again in first round wich could spell your doom as well. Witch could kill you as well or really mess you up. I see this one surprised round bad guy caster charm spell on fighter then bad guy wins iniatave gose before party charm another the PC rouge they both go kill Mage in round and the cleric in round 2 fight over.
Generally speaking, in most of my games, the single most common time that my character NEEDS a good perception roll is when he/she is on watch and the rest of the party is asleep. At the very least a sleeping character is going to take heavy penalties on perception rolls. Most GMs go only with the perception check of the person on watch.
So saying "if you're part of a party, only one has to have good perception" ignores the most common use of perception in most games I play.
I always put a dot in perception. It's just one of those rolls that often hurts too much when you miss.
Where is that invisible attacker? I will fireball it. I don't know I have a low perception. Oh there he is sorry about that. I'm sure that dagger isn't poisonous.
What do you mean you didn't hear the giant stalking us in the forest you were on watch. Sorry, I have a low perception. Do you think that Steve's arm will grow back?
Yeah, I checked that room. There is nothing in it. Oh whoops I missed that secret door. Sorry low perception.
I can't think of a skill I roll more often at the table, and making it a class skill is super easy.
Other than one trait, which requires a certain religion, how is that?
Skip it, if you don't feel for it.
I've played several characters, who simply wasn't the perceptive types, so naturally they had low perception skills.
It really didn't make the game any less fun that I didn't get to act in some surprise rounds, and that I wasn't the one who got to spot the traps and treasures...
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I can't think of a skill I roll more often at the table, and making it a class skill is super easy.Other than one trait, which requires a certain religion, how is that?
Cosmopolitan. Multiclassing.
Yes.
That dude whose perception score is +-6 points higher than yours, due to class skill benefits and positive wisdom scores, is sometimes going to roll lower than you.
Skill checks always include a random number between 1 and 20. Sometimes the guy with the high perception will roll high, and sometimes they will friggin tank it an roll a 1, and when they roll that 1, it's going to be really desirable to have someone else at the table rolling and not subtracting from the result.
Basically, if Wisdom is a dump stat and Perception is not a class skill - AND YOU HAVE OTHER SKILLS OF EQUAL OR GREATER VALUE TO YOUR CHARACTER - then, no, it's not required or even recommended.
That said, you really need to have another skill worth putting the point into (Spellcraft for a caster, for example).
And, if you do not take it, I highly recommend being in the middle of the group, not taking a turn at watch, not going off on your own for any reason, etc...
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I can't think of a skill I roll more often at the table, and making it a class skill is super easy.Other than one trait, which requires a certain religion, how is that?
Osirion faction: I am already be taking the faction, might as well grab the tomb raider trait.
Other characters: Comopolitan allows two non-physical skills as class skills and grants two languages. I usaully grab perception + diplomacy.
Yes
Edit: The Most Frequently Used Skill In The Game(tm)
I think you mean: The Most Frequently Used Skill In The Game™
(hold)ALT + 0153
@OP: If it does not fit with your character theme, then don't take it.
If it is something you can rely on a friend to do, then do so.
That said, what everyone else has told you about the usefulness of Perception is entirely true. I find it almost impossible to *not* put a couple of points into perception, and also pick a trait that lets you use Perception (or "Pick a skill with Wis/Int/Cha as a stat bonus") as a class skill.
(at work or I would be providing more accurate info with page citations and junk)