I hope I'm reading the Magic Item creation wrong, but from what I can gather from the RAW, it says the creator devotes 8 hours towards 1,000 gold worth of an item. You can reduce the time by half via increasing the DC by 5 (which makes sense, and is what I am using.
Since a Belt of Strength +6 is 36,000 gold, and you successfully make the item with the base DC+5 for rushed amount, would this mean the caster must spend crafting for 18 days to make the item (and I think the creator must make a check each day they devote to crafting the item)?
**NOTE** Getting ready to eat, so will be gone for a couple hours, approximately. If response is late, I apologize.
Page 548PG: To create magic items, spellcasters use special feats which allow them to invest time an money in an item's creation. At the en of this process, teh spellcaster must make a single skill check to finisch the item.
So you make one check only!
it would be 36k days, the time is based on the full cost.
it would be 36k days, the time is based on the full cost.
That's a bunch of crap. The RAW says it takes 8 hours worth of work per day to create 1,000 gold worth of an item. You can rush it to 4 hours, cutting the crafting time in half, but according to the base time cut in half, it would be 18 days total required in order to craft it.
How the heck are you going to be in a town for 18 days to craft an item? Doesn't that seem impractical for adventuring?
Well, if it was already a +4 str item, upgrading it to +6 is a 20k market value change, so "only" 20 more days. Items with incremental bonuses tend to not just come up out of scratch to max value.
But yeah, higher level item crafting takes very long (200 days to make a +5 weapon w/ +5 worth of special properties!), you basically need to use the grater create demiplane spell, or whatever it's called, to have somewhere to go where time flows at a different rate to actually make that stuff, or some other trick. Having a crafting cohort to do it while the party goes out and keeps the world safe is another way to do it.
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How the heck are you going to be in a town for 18 days to craft an item? Doesn't that seem impractical for adventuring?
That's the issue with most APs and item crafting. There just isn't that much downtime for item creation feats to be worth it. Kingmaker is an exception, but the general way it goes is most PCs end up skipping item creation and just pay the full purchase prices.
The usefullness of crafting items depends on the type of campaign and GM. Check with your GM if Crafing magical items is usefulle.
My GM(s) alsways give that information.
It takes a long time because 3.x, and Pathfinder specifically, balances item creation with time and money. (Most people assume the DC is or should be the balancing device.)
But you don't have to sit around town the whole time. Read a bit further down. You can craft while out adventuring, but you only get 2 hours worth of work per day, so it'll take a really long time. It just won't interrupt your adventures.
Right now, I'm in two high level games. One 17th, other was 17th just hit 18th. In the former, DM basically plays it straight how things would work out if you were facing off against world-threatening level evils -- we're constantly zipping around across the globe trying to keep up with the main villain with barely even chances to rest.
Latter game, the world is literally on the line and will be utterly destroyed if the bad guy gets his way (former game it's just been specific races facing being wiped out so far, not total world-spanning level seriousness)...and the DM between major excursions lets us craft whatever we want no matter the time it'd take. Time's basically frozen for our crafting, but we can't do anything else with it (we got some NPC allies with some perm. negative levels, and restoration makes you wait a week between castings, I wanted to use it to save money over greater restoration, but DM said we "wouldn't have time" to do that...even as 3 weeks go by to accomodate all the items we're commissioning).
It's kind of hilarious how radically different the experience is. But w/o the versimilitude-breaking "craft time" of latter DM, that game would probably leave no time for getting new items either, honestly.
No, it does not seem impractical.
My Kingmaker group just spent the past 5 years in downtime. They frequently take months or even a year off "adventuring" they have lives outside the dungeon.
I am also playing Kingmaker and we took a two year break, but surely you know that is not the norm. I wish it were more common though.
My GM and when I am a GM we always make it very clear if you have time and how much you time hou have between adventures. When there is enough time for item creation. You have 15 points build. When there is no time for item creation you get 25 points and at every 4th level 2x one plus 1 on two different stats to compensate. Depends on the sort of campaign. no is akwardly surprised.
Many campaigns move far too fast IMO. Going from 1st level to 10th level can happen in a shockingly short period of time if you bounce from one dungeon to the next.
Also, some classes (mostly the spellcasters, especially book based ones) need time between adventures for all that magic item and spell copying stuff.
Also, adventurers make piles of money at once, then...go out to make piles more? That doesn't make a lot of sense in some campaigns. If the average joe professional earns 500gp/annum and you just scored 10,000gp, there's a strong inclination to kick back and relax for a while.
Craft as you adventure, get a covered wagon for your travels and just work it out with your party so that they cover for you on crafting/traveling days. I try to scribe a 1st level spell (2 hours) every night in the skull and shackles game I'm in
Well, if it was already a +4 str item, upgrading it to +6 is a 20k market value change, so "only" 20 more days. Items with incremental bonuses tend to not just come up out of scratch to max value.
But yeah, higher level item crafting takes very long (200 days to make a +5 weapon w/ +5 worth of special properties!), you basically need to use the grater create demiplane spell, or whatever it's called, to have somewhere to go where time flows at a different rate to actually make that stuff, or some other trick. Having a crafting cohort to do it while the party goes out and keeps the world safe is another way to do it.
I agree that a strong/epic level item should take longer than it should a lower level item, such as a Belt that grants +6 to Physical Stats, compared to a +6 Strength Belt.
However, I do believe that a character's experience in regards to crafting items should be relevant in the item's creation. 1,000 gold per 8 hours for a 1st level Wondrous item isn't that big of an issue, but the problem is that the amount of gold you transmute to make the item within that time should be scaled in regards to the character's experience.
It wouldn't be so bad if the scale was 1,000 gold X Caster Level per 8 hours of work. If I was crafting a +10 Enhancement (total) weapon for 200K as a level 20 Wizard, it would take me 10 base days, as 1,000 x 20(th level caster) = 20,000 multiplied by 10 (days worth) = 200,000. Some items should take long in regards to the item's overall power (which is also scaled in its cash amount), but I also believe a character's skill in comparison to their overall power and crafting ability should also play a part as to how quickly a crafter should create an item.
I mean, it's pretty stupid for a 10th level caster to make a CL 4th item worth 4,000-5,000 gold (however, still has usage), yet takes at least 2 days to create an item that absolutely dwarfs their overall power.
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Are you saying that crafting isn't already good enough?
If you speed up crafting, you'll be taking away one of the only points of balance. You'll probably want to make some changes elsewhere to make up for that. (Changing the spellcraft DC is the obvious place to start.)
BTW, if you think magic items take too long to make, try making a mundane trap with Craft (traps).
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It looks like the feat Cooperative Crafting will help you cut the time in half again. If I read that right it means you can craft 2000 gp a day with help and all the other person needs is the required skill or feat. Rush the process, increase the DC by 5, and you can cover 4000 gp a day. That means only 5 days for your item.
Are you saying that crafting isn't already good enough?
By RAW, it takes at least half a year to craft Epic Level gear, and that's being generous.
Now let me ask you, what kind of adventure/session with your GM will you be sitting around for Years on end while your crafters make the gear for you? Hardly any.
I also find it ridiculous that your skill in terms of spellcasting has nothing to do with how long it would take for an item to make.
So a 12th level caster making an item that requires only an 8th level caster and is worth only 25,000 gold takes the 12th level guy the same amount of time to craft the item as it does an 8th level caster? You'd think the more experienced and powerful spellcaster would have methods and powers that could be quicker than that, and it would be easier to craft in terms of the task's duration.
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@Darksol
That 12th level caster can raise the DC by 5 to shorten the time easier than the 8th level caster can.
Also, some things can't be rushed. To use RW examples, metal heats and cools at the same rate in the forge, whether it is the guy at the Renfaire or Musashi. If I fax something (with 14 years of experience at my job) it faxes at the same rate as the guy right out of training. And not even Bobby Flay can cook something at 800 degrees in half the time it takes to cook it at 400.
Take a look at Mundane craftng and you'll be glad its only 36/18 days compared to the months just to make a MW sword or suit of armor.
@Darksol
That 12th level caster can raise the DC by 5 to shorten the time easier than the 8th level caster can.
Also, some things can't be rushed. To use RW examples, metal heats and cools at the same rate in the forge, whether it is the guy at the Renfaire or Musashi. If I fax something (with 14 years of experience at my job) it faxes at the same rate as the guy right out of training. And not even Bobby Flay can cook something at 800 degrees in half the time it takes to cook it at 400.
Of course he can, but that's something every spellcaster can do (successfully), and is something that I actually already included in the title (it would actually be over a month in base, and that's just not right, even for a moderate level item).
I would agree if the laws of the real world actually completely applied to the laws of Fantasy and/or Magic. They aren't, and logically speaking, there would be ways (even technically through game mechanics) that should be applied. There are methods that can be done to enhance the speed much more than what is actually given. If the Shorten Time option actually stacked in regards to how many times you can shorten, it would be a suitable solution, since a DC 23 Spellcraft item would instead be changed to DC 33 and only take 9 days worth (which is actually not so bad for a moderate level item for that adventure).
As to your RW examples, their metalworking styles are different and function better or worse than the other, meaning they are more skilled, advanced, and quite frankly get things done quicker and more efficiently than the other guys. FAXing at the same level of technology doesn't work that way for Spells, and is simulated through the likes of Spell Resistance in regards to which is overall better in regards to skill. Which is more likely to land the job (and at a much quicker response)? The more experienced one. And no, him adjusting the Heat won't affect it because he doesn't have the means to cook that way, and that's a whole 'nother bunch of physics I don't want to get into, as it'll derail the topic at hand.
Heck, Caleb gave a nice viable option to decrease the time much more efficiently, and actually makes items craftable in a reasonable amount of time, and it's actually not a bad solution at all. Not a foolproof one, but still a viable one.
I still believe that a crafter's skill should have more to do with crafting at a relatively shorter timespan other than cutting the already ridiculous amount of time it takes to craft a couple moderate items in half with a skill check. Hopefully the creators might expand the concept and make it more viable with a Crafting book or something, because I don't see 12th level adventurers sitting around for 2-3 years while their stupid crafter of the group takes forever to craft a couple relative-level magic items.
I have an Alchemist with cooperative crafting... and 8 simulacrum of himself. I can make a +6 item in 2 days. Takes me 8 days to make the simulacrum though. Gosh I wish I had them before I made that 10x10 magic carpet that the bad guys stole. Sigh.
Edit: also would be nice to not have the world ending tomorrow. Sigh again.
You should also note that you can take work at a reduced rate and work on it even whilst out dungeon crawling or whatever and during downtime hit it hard and fast with reduced time creation to make up the difference.
And like i said earlier you spend 18 days making a +6 str belt for my ranger. He now has to spend about 56 days making a new bow from scratch.
How about this to help you out, it's from the ARG, in the Gnome section (non-gnomes can use it too):
Amazing Tools of Manufacture
Tools of this type always appear to be of the highest quality and wrought of the finest materials, most often mithral, darkwood, and adamantine. In the hands of a casual wielder, these items simply appear to be magically enhanced masterwork tools for a specific Craft skill (determined randomly), granting a +4 circumstance bonus on such skill checks. However, in the hands of a craftsman with 6 or more ranks in the selected Craft skill, the greater power of the amazing tools of manufacture becomes apparent. The wielder may use the tools to create items using the Craft skill much more surely and quickly. The wielder may take raw materials with a value equal to half the price of an object to be crafted, and produce a finished object in as little as 1 hour for an item with a final cost of 2,000 gp or less. For objects with a final cost of more than 2,000 gp, the wielder can perform 2,000 gp worth of work in a single hour, but only once each day. Only a single skill check is required to successfully complete the item, made on the last day of crafting and gaining the +4 circumstance bonus granted by the tools.
Now, I'm not sure if it would stack with regular masterwork tools since even though circumstance bonuses stack, it doesn't stack if the source is similar, but ho knows.
Well, the obvious solution is allowing you to raise the spellcraft DC in order to craft more gp per day, similar to how normal craft lets you raise the DC to shorten how long it takes.
Every extra 1000 gp per day is +10 spellcraft DC, perhaps? So +20 DC if you want to make 3000 gp of stuff per day.
How about this to help you out, it's from the ARG, in the Gnome section (non-gnomes can use it too):
Now, I'm not sure if it would stack with regular masterwork tools since even though circumstance bonuses stack, it doesn't stack if the source is similar, but ho knows.Amazing Tools of Manufacture
Tools of this type always appear to be of the highest quality and wrought of the finest materials, most often mithral, darkwood, and adamantine. In the hands of a casual wielder, these items simply appear to be magically enhanced masterwork tools for a specific Craft skill (determined randomly), granting a +4 circumstance bonus on such skill checks. However, in the hands of a craftsman with 6 or more ranks in the selected Craft skill, the greater power of the amazing tools of manufacture becomes apparent. The wielder may use the tools to create items using the Craft skill much more surely and quickly. The wielder may take raw materials with a value equal to half the price of an object to be crafted, and produce a finished object in as little as 1 hour for an item with a final cost of 2,000 gp or less. For objects with a final cost of more than 2,000 gp, the wielder can perform 2,000 gp worth of work in a single hour, but only once each day. Only a single skill check is required to successfully complete the item, made on the last day of crafting and gaining the +4 circumstance bonus granted by the tools.
Actually yes, that very well helps out the time situation, and it's something that I'll show to my Wizard friend, who has Crafting feats, since it pretty much doubles the rate of the crafting, combined with the Cooperative Crafting feat, will make it close to 8,000 GP worth of an item per day, meaning the belt will be done in less than 5 days.
Are there any other methods to reduce the amount of time needed to craft an item?
Well, the obvious solution is allowing you to raise the spellcraft DC in order to craft more gp per day, similar to how normal craft lets you raise the DC to shorten how long it takes.
Every extra 1000 gp per day is +10 spellcraft DC, perhaps? So +20 DC if you want to make 3000 gp of stuff per day.
Actually, reducing the work time in half (based off the normal option listed in the book) is a +5. So if I want to burn through 4,000 gp of stuff, I'd increase the DC by 10, not 20.
However, whether you can do something like that multiple times on each crafting item, isn't exactly expanded or mentioned within the Core, so it would have to be houseruled (unless one of the great Developers can come in and clear up this issue?).
Crafting magic items can only be increased the once, unlike normal items, where you have the option to +10 the DC as much as you like.
I thought a Masterwork item was any item made with a 20 DC check. Do you actually have to say you're making masterwork? I must not be clear on something. I always considered the +100 gp a reward for being able to hit the DC.
Note that Cooperative Casting would follow the doubling rules. 1000 gp/day, DC +5 2000 gp, Cooperative Casting 3000 Gp. Note it doesn't say the second mage can 'rush' things to make his own +5 DC check and jump things to 4000 gp. That's surely a decent house rule, but it's not spelled out as an option.
The feat also specifically refers to 'you' and 'both'. Thus, you can't stack six simulacarum to accelerate a check. You get the benefit exactly once.
Note that Cooperative Casting is thus exactly the same as two wizards making items seperately that can be 'added together'. It also spends a precious feat slot, so unless you take the feat yourself, your simulacra won't have it, either.
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As noted above, TIME is the balancing power of Crafting.
While the mage is spending 18 days making the uber item of yore, the rest of the party can be out there adventuring and making xp.
Otherwise, you get into the argument that the wizard should be making 500 gp profit/day making magic items, and how is the rest of the party going to pay him for it?!? Then you get into the gold max and party benefit arguments, and it all comes down to time sinks.
As for AP's:
The only AP I've read that doesn't allow for downtime readily is Carrion Crown, and possibly the elf/drow one. Runelords certainly has ample areas for down time. Jade Regent the whole book is basically filled with downtime opportunities, it's all about travelling. The desert one has as much downtime as the Dm wishes to hurry things along. Serpent's Skull has plenty of downtime before the events of the last book...you're basically exploring a city.
I don't have Westcrown, so I'm not sure of the time delays inherent in it.
==Aelryinth
I just want to point out it's 36 days even with the 4 hour work day for a +6 belt. Crafting time (days-wise is based on market/base price). The reduced 4 hour crafting time per day is still limited by 1000 gp per day, so it doesn't reduce how many days required to craft the magic item, but the per/day time commitment.
Note that Cooperative Casting would follow the doubling rules. 1000 gp/day, DC +5 2000 gp, Cooperative Casting 3000 Gp. Note it doesn't say the second mage can 'rush' things to make his own +5 DC check and jump things to 4000 gp. That's surely a decent house rule, but it's not spelled out as an option.
The feat also specifically refers to 'you' and 'both'. Thus, you can't stack six simulacarum to accelerate a check. You get the benefit exactly once.
Note that Cooperative Casting is thus exactly the same as two wizards making items seperately that can be 'added together'. It also spends a precious feat slot, so unless you take the feat yourself, your simulacra won't have it, either.
-------------------As noted above, TIME is the balancing power of Crafting.
While the mage is spending 18 days making the uber item of yore, the rest of the party can be out there adventuring and making xp.
Otherwise, you get into the argument that the wizard should be making 500 gp profit/day making magic items, and how is the rest of the party going to pay him for it?!? Then you get into the gold max and party benefit arguments, and it all comes down to time sinks.
I thought that the amount of time needed to work per 1,000 gold pieces is cut in half (with a +5 to the DC), and that would stack with the Cooperative Crafting, in that it would be reduced to 1/4 of the time, and if done with a Crafting check, the Amazing Tools of Manufacturing would add another 2,000 per day of crafting; that would amount to 6,000 gold (not the 8,000 I stated, which I apologize, since I was loosely reading the effects).
The thing is, Cooperative Crafting allows them to double the working effectiveness of your Crafting, in that it reduces the amount of time it takes by half. In addition, rushing work reduces the time in half again, meaning you're making 1,000 GP of an item per 2 hours (amounting to 4,000 gold total as a base), and if you're making the item with a Craft check, you add in another 2,000 gold you amount with (though only consumes an hour's worth of work), amounting to give or take 6,000 gold per day.
@ Protoman
That makes no sense; why even bother rushing the work process to cut the time in half? There is no RAW saying you can only construct 1,000 GP worth of an item per day, and it defeats the entire purpose of getting Crafting Items/Feats to hasten the work production of a magic item.
Maybe it's because the game was originally built on the concept of playing an adventurer, not a blacksmith/seamstress/etc.
So then why even give us professions if it's just going to take 50 years just to make a set of high level equipment, when you can probably find all of that equipment in 5 months time?
I guess the whole point of it is that you might as well ditch the concept of crafting because the amount of time it takes for the character to make it is ridiculous, but the amount of time it takes for the character to find or buy it is extraneously cheaper and time effective.
My point and question still stands; what kind of adventure are you going to be sitting around for 50 years while your crafter makes the gear you want made? None. It defeats the entire purpose of making your own items, and they might as well not have even given us the ability to make our own items, since it just takes over 2 years game-time to make a high level item.
My point and question still stands; what kind of adventure are you going to be sitting around for 50 years while your crafter makes the gear you want made? None. It defeats the entire purpose of making your own items, and they might as well not have even given us the ability to make our own items, since it just takes over 2 years game-time to make a high level item.
Let's see now... WBL for a 20th level character - 880,000gp
So if one person were to craft EVERY magic item that character had at 1000gp/day, it would take less then two and a half years. For a 10th level character you could do it in two months.
What was your question again?
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I also find it ridiculous that your skill in terms of spellcasting has nothing to do with how long it would take for an item to make.
So a 12th level caster making an item that requires only an 8th level caster and is worth only 25,000 gold takes the 12th level guy the same amount of time to craft the item as it does an 8th level caster? You'd think the more experienced and powerful spellcaster would have methods and powers that could be quicker than that, and it would be easier to craft in terms of the task's duration.
Yeah, I agree. It's like how experienced mothers can give birth way faster than 9 months.
My point and question still stands; what kind of adventure are you going to be sitting around for 50 years while your crafter makes the gear you want made? None. It defeats the entire purpose of making your own items, and they might as well not have even given us the ability to make our own items, since it just takes over 2 years game-time to make a high level item.Let's see now... WBL for a 20th level character - 880,000gp
So if one person were to craft EVERY magic item that character had at 1000gp/day, it would take less then two and a half years. For a 10th level character you could do it in two months.
What was your question again?
Characters are going to have their items value at more than the average wealth of that level, and it'll take a heck of a lot longer than to properly gear them out with magical items.
The point still stands that Crafting is useless toward the end game because the rate of 1,000 GP per day would make you have to spend at least 5 years to craft magic items for a character, and if you're with a party, there will be a heck of a lot more equipment to make than that, whereas you could spend 5 months worth of level 20 Adventuring and find the equipment you're looking for no problem.
@ AM
Because childbirth is the same as making magic items, let me tell my whole life's story about it...
Don't forget that getting a high DC for a faster rate of progress is only half of the equation for speeding things along. The other is your skill check roll. The amazing tools of manufacture provide a +4 circumstance, so that right there, speeds up your progress as well. certain ioun stones increase skill check rolls, and so forth. Every bit counts.
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How the heck are you going to be in a town for 18 days to craft an item? Doesn't that seem impractical for adventuring?
No. In fact, I'd say it's fairly typical of most groups to schedule downtime between adventures to allow for crafting, research, training etc.
It's not really a "Hey guys, we have a big battle coming up tomorrow! I think I'll forge myself a blade of epic arcane powers after dinner."
Characters are going to have their items value at more than the average wealth of that level, and it'll take a heck of a lot longer than to properly gear them out with magical items.
Unless you have a Monty Hall GM, then no, they shouldn't.
How the heck are you going to be in a town for 18 days to craft an item? Doesn't that seem impractical for adventuring?No. In fact, I'd say it's fairly typical of most groups to schedule downtime between adventures to allow for crafting, research, training etc.
It's not really a "Hey guys, we have a big battle coming up tomorrow! I think I'll forge myself a blade of epic arcane powers after dinner."
Characters are going to have their items value at more than the average wealth of that level, and it'll take a heck of a lot longer than to properly gear them out with magical items.Unless you have a Monty Hall GM, then no, they shouldn't.
I understand that epic level items (such as a +10 Enhancement Adamantine weapon) are going to take days, possibly weeks depending upon the power, to make, and that's not the entire issue.
The issue is that it takes Years. YEARS of time to craft, and there aren't any adventure(r)s and such (that I know of) that will (let you) have that kind of Downtime for adventuring.
Unless GM is like "Hey guys, you did this module, town is safe from bad guys or whatever for an unusually long time, I'm giving you however long you need to perform upkeep on your gold and equipment and such," I doubt there will be time to make moderate items that take weeks, even months, depending upon the moderate, and that's just what it is; a mediocre piece of gear in the grand scheme of things.
The issue is that it takes Years. YEARS of time to craft, and there aren't any adventure(r)s and such (that I know of) that will (let you) have that kind of Downtime for adventuring.
Then the GMs you know are unusual in that regard.
There's a reason why there are rules in the books for how old characters live and what happens to them as they age. It's because many campaigns are played over the course of it's character's entire LIVES.
Unless GM is like "Hey guys, you did this module, town is safe from bad guys or whatever for an unusually long time, I'm giving you however long you need to perform upkeep on your gold and equipment and such,"
That's pretty much EXACTLY what most GMs do.
I'm not sure what's wrong with your campaign setting where the party will slay an ancient dragon, and 3 days later the countryside is ravaged by another ancient dragon.
Most RPG campaigns aren't like a TV show where something horrible happens every single week that demands the player's attention. And the higher level your party gets the greater the amount of time should be passing between crisis that are worth your party's time.
If your characters are in their mid to high teens and living in a kingdom where a new Pit Lord is bursting out of the earth every other day, then you've got serious problems.
The issue is that it takes Years. YEARS of time to craft, and there aren't any adventure(r)s and such (that I know of) that will (let you) have that kind of Downtime for adventuring.Then the GMs you know are unusual in that regard.
There's a reason why there are rules in the books for how old characters live and what happens to them as they age. It's because many campaigns are played over the course of it's character's entire LIVES.
Unless GM is like "Hey guys, you did this module, town is safe from bad guys or whatever for an unusually long time, I'm giving you however long you need to perform upkeep on your gold and equipment and such,"That's pretty much EXACTLY what most GMs do.
I'm not sure what's wrong with your campaign setting where the party will slay an ancient dragon, and 3 days later the countryside is ravaged by another ancient dragon.
Most RPG campaigns aren't like a TV show where something horrible happens every single week that demands the player's attention. And the higher level your party gets the greater the amount of time should be passing between crisis that are worth your party's time.
If your characters are in their mid to high teens and living in a kingdom where a new Pit Lord is bursting out of the earth every other day, then you've got serious problems.
Ultimately, I would agree that the age limits are there for a reason. But a piece of high end gear via current crafting rules would take a year or two to make, per piece. So by the time I'm a 30 year old human, and I want 7-8 pieces made, there goes 20 years of my life (assuming I'm not dead by then due to old age) just for pieces of gear that I probably could've obtained within 20 months time just going out slaying dragons or big bad guys.
Heck, by the time I get old enough to where I can afford level 20 pieces of gear, I'd be dead, or the gear will just balance out all the negatives I will be receiving due to my old age.
Pretty much; that's what ours is currently doing right now, and ultimately it makes the time issue not a big deal (we're more of a combat-based group, and the whole "1,000 GP per day" for crafting doesn't really impact our gameplay, nor is it really taken into consideration since we're not high enough level to notice the amount of time the items take), but it's not exactly like our method is the accurate or even acceptable way to play according to the RAW. Our RAI says "Oh hey, the guy is skilled enough to make magic items, he'll need some time to imbue its power, but even the strongest item should probably take no more than a couple weeks," whereas the RAW says "Oh hey, guy is skilled enough to make magic items, he'll need at least 2 years to even complete a high level item, and if he has to make a bunch, well he's going to be busy until he rots six feet under."
See the "complaint" (point) I'm making? Crafting should be more of a profession and trade, and in regards to adventuring life, it should be something on the side, not something that would take your life's work to even complete a whole set of items meant for adventuring, especially when the Forces of Evil and Good are constantly clashing at each other. The crafter will work so hard at fine-tuning his profession of magic items, finally make a set of very powerful adventuring gear, and more than likely end up rotting 6 feet under by the time he finishes making each piece of gear. And that's being generous.
So by the time I'm a 30 year old human, and I want 7-8 pieces made, there goes 20 years of my life (assuming I'm not dead by then due to old age) just for pieces of gear that I probably could've obtained within 20 months time just going out slaying dragons or big bad guys.
That's assuming that, for some reason, your character has to hand-craft every piece of gear he wears.
For most characters, the equipment they use ends up being a mix of the crafted, the looted from the corpses of their enemies, and the just plain ol' store bought.
If you don't like it. Don't take the item creation feats. And take your gold to an NPC that did.
Crafting should be more of a profession and trade, and in regards to adventuring life, it should be something on the side, not something that would take your life's work to even complete a whole set of items meant for adventuring
That's kind of exactly the point though. The kind of equipment that a level 20 character wears is MEANT to be the kind of thing that some dwarf spend years of his life toiling at the forge to create. A +10 sword is SUPPOSED to take 6 months to craft.
I understand that epic level items (such as a +10 Enhancement Adamantine weapon) are going to take days, possibly weeks depending upon the power, to make, and that's not the entire issue.
I think it's weird that you are criticizing the Pathfinder RPG rule set by referring to stuff that is not part of these rules. There are no rules for "epic level item", and you cannot create a weapon with a +10 enhancement bonus by the rules of this game.
You can make a +5 Vorpal sword, though.
For the purposes of crafting times, that's the same as trying to make a +10 weapon.
I understand that epic level items (such as a +10 Enhancement Adamantine weapon) are going to take days, possibly weeks depending upon the power, to make, and that's not the entire issue.I think it's weird that you are criticizing the Pathfinder RPG rule set by referring to stuff that is not part of these rules. There are no rules for "epic level item", and you cannot create a weapon with a +10 enhancement bonus by the rules of this game.
I said +10 Enhancement in regards to the total amount of bonuses you can put on a single piece of weapon or armor, and that the maximum Weapon Enhancement bonus is +5 for hit and damage.
And Epic Level is flavor text for "Level 20 item."
So by the time I'm a 30 year old human, and I want 7-8 pieces made, there goes 20 years of my life (assuming I'm not dead by then due to old age) just for pieces of gear that I probably could've obtained within 20 months time just going out slaying dragons or big bad guys.That's assuming that, for some reason, your character has to hand-craft every piece of gear he wears.
For most characters, the equipment they use ends up being a mix of the crafted, the looted from the corpses of their enemies, and the just plain ol' store bought.
If you don't like it. Don't take the item creation feats. And take your gold to an NPC that did.
Crafting should be more of a profession and trade, and in regards to adventuring life, it should be something on the side, not something that would take your life's work to even complete a whole set of items meant for adventuringThat's kind of exactly the point though. The kind of equipment that a level 20 character wears is MEANT to be the kind of thing that some dwarf spend years of his life toiling at the forge to create. A +10 sword is SUPPOSED to take 6 months to craft.
It's an exaggeration, I will admit to that. It still does not change the fact that if I want to make one level 20 +10 Enhancement item (from Scratch), that it takes at least a year or two to make, where there isn't too much downtime to make items of that calibur (probably a month or two at tops for downtime until the next campaign/AP, to be completely honest with you). That's just how the RAW is inadvertantly stated, and is all I am really arguing about at this point.
A +10 Total Enhancement bonus Sword (which is as powerful as it gets) is more feasible to take 6 months, whereas some average joe +4 to Physical Stats belt can be calculated to take the same amount of time as the said +10 Enhancement Sword, which is pretty ridiculous, combined with the fact that a character may want to have somebody craft those items, would take years, which once again points to my previous (repetitive) question.