Can I use Bespell Weapon across multiple rounds? For example, say I cast fireball as my final action in the previous round. Can I start my current turn by activating Bespell Weapon and making up to three strikes, each with bonus fire damage?
Or perhaps move then strike, then cast a one-action spell to set me up for the next round, rather than making multiple attacks?
Theoretically, could I cast a spell, and trigger Bespell Weapon off of it an hour later, provided I took no actions during the interim period?
No.
...Until the end of your turn, the weapon deals...
I would rule that you can cast a spell in round A and use Bespell weapon at the start of turn B. That seems legitimate. "Requirements: Your most recent action was to cast a non-cantrip spell." Note that it does not say "most recent action *this turn*"
Triggering Bespell weapon an hour later.... I don't think I'd allow that at my table. Sure, perhaps your last action in a combat was to cast a spell, and in Exploration mode we don't speak in terms of actions, but the idea is that the activities you do in exploration mode are made up of many individual actions that are all lumped into an extended activity. So unless the character stands stock still, doesn't move for anything, doesn't even think (recall knowledge is an action)... And at that point, to me it's just so far fetched that a flat no is the answer I'm giving at my table.
You may perhaps have an argument for a character who is Detecting Magic as their exploration tactic, but it's a weak case. The idea with that activity is that you cast detect magic, then move forward through the area you detected in, then cast again. And unless you're going very, very slowly, you're likely to be simply walking forward until you see something interesting, then using detect magic. So.. what are the chances that you had JUST cast Detect Magic prior to rolling initiative?
So, aside from the 1st case, it's all a pass for me. PF2 tries and largely succeeds at getting away from the whole "we're gonna pre-buff the heck out of ourselves" thing. I want my players to narrate setting up an ambush and succeed at some skill checks in order to have the chance to do any of the in-battle things ahead of time. Otherwise, roll initiative and THEN decide whether striking/cantripping or casting support spells is the thing you want to do.
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Actually, I think you can. The requirements are that your most recent action was to cast a spell, so if you start your turn and meet that requirement, you can activate Bespell Weapon.
THEN the "Until the end of your turn..." clock kicks in.
Not taking any actions for a whole hour seems dubious at best though, unless someone else can put you into stasis or something.
(To clarify Ubertron, the feat does not require that you cast the spell the same turn you activate it)
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I stand corrected.
I agree with Krispy, end of the turn refers to when Bespell Weapon occurred.
Well my view on that, Gary, is that actions are precious. As a GM, if a player wants to blow one of their actions, I say let 'em. They don't HAVE to use all of their actions after all, but they really SHOULD for their own good.
Triggering Bespell weapon an hour later.... I don't think I'd allow that at my table. Sure, perhaps your last action in a combat was to cast a spell, and in Exploration mode we don't speak in terms of actions, but the idea is that the activities you do in exploration mode are made up of many individual actions that are all lumped into an extended activity. So unless the character stands stock still, doesn't move for anything, doesn't even think (recall knowledge is an action)... And at that point, to me it's just so far fetched that a flat no is the answer I'm giving at my table.
I said "theoretically." I wasn't expecting there to be a terribly realistic chance of it getting pulled off. Also, I wasn't envisioning someone going into exploration mode then claiming they took no actions. I imagined a guy who literally just stands there...for an hour...doing nothing...then suddenly swinging his flaming sword at you as you wave you hand in front of their face to make sure their not catatonic or something. :P
Still, I'm glad you brought it up, as that is a base that should probably be covered.
If you're allowed to do that, I think the GM is allowed to grab you if their last action on the previous round was landing a hit. I've been working the assumption that you need to be using such actions within the same turn as their requirements, and doing otherwise would give monsters a lot more flexibility.
If you're allowed to do that, I think the GM is allowed to grab you if their last action on the previous round was landing a hit. I've been working the assumption that you need to be using such actions within the same turn as their requirements, and doing otherwise would give monsters a lot more flexibility.
Uh... why couldn't I use grab in this circumstance? If a grab monster hit you with their last action, run away!
Could a Greater Shadow that hit with a shadow hand strike as the last action use Steal Shadow at the beginning of the Shadow's next turn?
Steal Shadow Single Action (divine, necromancy) Requirement The greater shadow hit a living creature with a shadow hand Strike on its previous action. Effect The greater shadow pulls at the target’s shadow, making the creature enfeebled 2 (or enfeebled 3 on a critical hit). This is cumulative with other enfeebled conditions from shadows, to a maximum of enfeebled 4. If this increases a creature’s enfeebled value to 3 or more, the target’s shadow is separated from its body (see shadow spawn). Enfeebled from Steal Shadow decreases by 1 every hour.
Is there anything in the rules to indicate that it doesn't work?
At some point as the GM, you can decide it doesn't make sense... but it doesn't seem ambiguous within the rules itself.
I thought there was a clarification that all the 'last action"/"previous action" always had to be in the same round. But I have no idea how I would start searching for it. Can't recall enough to pin down good keywords/threads/timeframes to search through.
There is a clear difference in wording between bespell weapon and divine weapon, which indicates the first can be used in the next turn, if the last action of the previous round was a spell.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=282
Trigger: You finish Casting a Spell using one of your divine spell slots on your turn.
Divine weapon mentions "your turn" twice, both in the trigger and in the effect.
Can I use Bespell Weapon across multiple rounds? For example, say I cast fireball as my final action in the previous round. Can I start my current turn by activating Bespell Weapon and making up to three strikes, each with bonus fire damage?
Or perhaps move then strike, then cast a one-action spell to set me up for the next round, rather than making multiple attacks?
One other thing to consider: reactions. Both of these sequences are OK, but there should also be no reaction in between the casting and using the feat. A reaction is also an action.
Also, using Bespell weapon and Divine weapon from the same casting is also not possible. A free action is also an action, and both free actions mention the last action to be a spell.
So True Strike, bespell&divine weapon, Strike doesn't work.
What about free actions? Like talking
Free Actions are actions w/o an action cost. But they still count and in PF2 (if I'm recalling a person's citation well) can only be taken on your turn (unless it specifically has a trigger).
I thought last time Bespell Weapon came up somebody posted strong evidence against it w/ a specific rule. Apologies for not recalling it well.
Gish struggle, so while I'm against the carry over, I do not know which side I'd land on if this arose.
That feels off to me. Actions have a action cost. Reactions have a reaction cost that is not an action cost. Free actions do not use the action or reaction cost and do not run out. They are all 3 actions, and the all 3 have different cost types. Either they are all being treated as actions then reactions and free actions both disrupt the sequence or we base it off the cost type which neither reactions or free actions dustup it. I dont think it should go from one turn to another either way though.
Free Actions:
"If a free action doesn’t have a trigger, you use it like a single action, just without spending any of your actions for the turn."While that leaves room for it to be treated differently, the default is to treat free actions "like a single action" except for no cost.
That feels off to me. Actions have a action cost. Reactions have a reaction cost that is not an action cost. Free actions do not use the action or reaction cost and do not run out. They are all 3 actions, and the all 3 have different cost types. Either they are all being treated as actions then reactions and free actions both disrupt the sequence or we base it off the cost type which neither reactions or free actions dustup it. I dont think it should go from one turn to another either way though.Free Actions:
"If a free action doesn’t have a trigger, you use it like a single action, just without spending any of your actions for the turn."While that leaves room for it to be treated differently, the default is to treat free actions "like a single action" except for no cost.
More generally, the rules already mention actions as being single actions, activities, reactions and free actions.
The wording of bespell weapon already refers to actions in the broader sense. Bespell Weapon
Requirements: Your most recent action was to cast a non-cantrip spell.
With spells usually being an activity (multiple single actions), or in rare cases even reactions, clearly all sorts of different actions are meant. As I mentioned before: extreme gish builds with both bespell weapon and divine weapon, both free actions, triggering of the same spell, are not possible as both mention the last action to be a spell.