Or you could get dex, dodge, insight, deflection, luck, etc... AC bonuses, which unlike the force armor, will apply to all touch attacks, and not just incorporeal touch attacks.
And will give you more AC per cost than the bracers will.But, your call.
And again, I mentioned the miss chance stuff for completeness. Whether someone's using bracers, mage armor, or haramaki doesn't matter for that, other than having more money to spend on it, possibly.
Agreed. I caught a lot of grief for recommending arcane armor proficiency for the arcane trickster, but it just works to add bonuses from different sources, rather than rely on a (very expensive) few. Bracers are only worth it in certain contexts. A haramaki could work better before 15-20th, and I realize most campaigns never get there. Feats spent on proficiencies no longer work once you surpass them.
Still, a +8 force armor effect for 64,000 is worth it to the right high level sor/wiz. Getting to where you can afford it is another thing, and not likely in most games.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I know in previous editions there was a spell called Greater Mage Armor or something like that and it granted a +8 to AC - anyone know why it never crossed over? If a 1st level spell can get you +4 AC, it can't possibly be that big a deal to get +8...
Spell compendium = closed content unfortunately.
I know in previous editions there was a spell called Greater Mage Armor or something like that and it granted a +8 to AC - anyone know why it never crossed over? If a 1st level spell can get you +4 AC, it can't possibly be that big a deal to get +8...Spell compendium = closed content unfortunately.
Not sure what that means...
The main problem with bracers of armor is this unfortunate line:
"If a creature receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not grant their armor bonus or their armor special abilities. If the bracers of armor grant a larger armor bonus, the other source of armor ceases functioning."
I remember this coming up in RotRL, with Xanesha's snakeskin shirt. It gave a +1 armor bonus to AC, and had been enhanced with a few other enchantments. The party wizard then wanted to get some bracers and was disappointed to hear that his enhanced snakeskin shirt would not work AT ALL. So he stuck with Mage Armor. And THEN armored kilt came out and there was much rejoicing.
In more general play, the ablative barrier spell would also fail to operate entirely if your bracers give +3 or more armor. You would not get the damage conversion aspect of the spell since the entire spell will 'cease functioning'.
Also, there is this line: "Bracers of armor cannot have any armor special abilities that add a flat gp amount to their cost."
Basically, if you are SURE you will not need the effects of any other item or spell that gives you an armor bonus to AC, bracers are not a bad idea. Otherwise, or if you want to be able to use other special armor abilities, you may benefit more from silken armor/haramaki/armored kilt.
Bracers of Armor +5, 25k.
Mithral Ghost Touch Buckler +1, +2 AC, 5k
Ring of +2 Prot, 8k.
Insight Ioun Stone +1 AC, 8k.
Mage Armor, +4 AC, 0
+9 Incorp AC vs +5, and you save 2k.
+6 Bracers, vs Upgrade Buckler to +3. 36k vs 34k, +6 vs +11.
+7 Bracers, vs Upgrade Ring to +3. 49k vs 46k. +7 vs +12.
+8 bracers vs Buckler +4, Dex+2. 64k vs 59k. +8 vs +14.
ALL INCORP TOUCH AC.
Bracers are the LAST thing you spend money on as a mage. The incremental benefits are NOT cost effective.
===Aelryinth
I was just looking at my "prepare everyday" spells for my 9th level wizard (coming soon to a game near me) and I'm now wondering if it's even worthwhile to prepare Mage Armor. Yes, it's a +4 to AC for a measly 1st level slot, but according to professor Q's equipment guide, you need a 19 AC at 9th level for AC to even begin to matter. Assuming a Dex bonus of +2, Mage Armor leaves me with an AC of 16. If I were to cast Shield as well my AC would bump up to 20, just barely above the threshold; but now we're at two 1st level slots, one of which has to be cast within minutes of battle.
So, I ask more experienced players: is Mage Armor worth it? Are there some higher-level foes for which it makes a difference, e.g. mage-on-mage knife fights? Or should I save my 1st level slots for extra copies of Silent Image, Grease, Magic Missile, etc.?
No it's not. Go with +1 light fortification silk ceremonial armor and a +1 mithral buckler instead, later upgrading to a +5 heavy fortification silk ceremonial with an armored kilt and a +5 mithral buckler of arrow snaring. Net AC gain is +13, 75% resistance to crits and precision damage, negates the first ranged attack against you per round, and can allow a DC 20-25 Reflex save to negate a ranged attack each round. Alternatively, make both your armor and shield fortification for layers of defense.
You can craft these yourself, since you'll likely want Craft Construct which requires Craft Magic Arms and Armor anyway.
EDIT: Actually, see Aelryinth's post above mine. He's got good advice as well. Ghost touch is a very good idea. I'm not as big on the bracers of armor but hey, whatever works, right? :P
Actually, bracers do have a niche use: if your wizard likes to polymorph (say, into an earth elemental so he can hide under the ground in-between castings. Since mithral bucklers and silk armor don't function in those forms, bracers and mage armor are more useful for such builds.
Not sure what that means...
Greater Mage Armor (which, by the way, gave +6 rather than +8 you mention) is a 3rd level spell listed in the 3.5 sourcebook Spell Compendium.
The spells in this book are not part of the OGL, and thus, belong to Wizards of the Coast.Which means, Paizo cannot port them to Pathfinder.
So they should just make Improved Mage Armor and make that a 5th level spell that grants +8 armor. XD
Actually, I seem to recall a spell called Epic Mage Armor (epic level, +20 to AC, or the like...)
I know in previous editions there was a spell called Greater Mage Armor or something like that and it granted a +8 to AC - anyone know why it never crossed over? If a 1st level spell can get you +4 AC, it can't possibly be that big a deal to get +8...
It was a 3rd level spell and granted a +6. A nice upgrade, but not uber. I was a big fan.
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This is why I like psionics. Inertial Armor is effectively mage armor, but you can power it up. The most powerful it can get is +13 armor at 20th level (at this point it is akin to a 9th level mage armor type spell).
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This is why I like psionics. Inertial Armor is effectively mage armor, but you can power it up. The most powerful it can get is +13 armor at 20th level (at this point it is akin to a 9th level mage armor type spell).
This is one thing I've always liked about psionics - the ability for the mage to pour all his focus and free energy into a spell and make it better, at the cost of being unable to use that energy for more stuff later.
Honestly if the concept of wizard=awesome and wizard=vancian caster weren't so tightly integrated into each other in the minds of most players I'd probably have replaced them with reflavored psion "wizards" by now.
As a player, I've always viewed Mage Armor like your underwear, socks, full plate armor, etc. You get up in the morning and put it on. At night, you take it off to sleep. At very low levels you have to modify that a bit (put it on at the dungeon entrance), but the idea is the same.Tell me: Do all of your characters take their underwear off when they go to bed, or just the wizards?
My wizards never take off their underwear (except when, y'know...). They just fully dry-clean themselves with prestidigitation daily (if not hourly). :3
true, but unless you have some feat I am not aware of, you can still only make one scroll per day. According to the magic item creation rules, you can only make one magic item per day. And a scroll is a magic item.
You can make scrolls with more than one spell on them, just slide under 1k gp value.-James
So again, you make a scroll with 6-7 spells on it that costs less than 1k gp and you're good for that adventuring day.
-James
This is not true, you might want to brush up on your Magic Item Creation first.
Scribing a scroll requires 1 day per 1,000 gp of the base price. Although an individual scroll might contain more than one spell, each spell must be scribed as a separate effort, meaning that no more than 1 spell can be scribed in a day.
I think in 3.5 you could scribe 1 scroll a day, period, but that scroll could have 10 spells on it. In Pathfinder, you can scribe 1 spell a day. Depending on the GM, you are better off having 15 scrolls with 15 different spells, than 1 scrolls with 15 different spells. That 1 scroll can be sundered, disarmed, lost in the wind etc, and now you've lost all 15 spells, while with 15 different scrolls, you need 15 different checks to lose them all.
true, but unless you have some feat I am not aware of, you can still only make one scroll per day. According to the magic item creation rules, you can only make one magic item per day. And a scroll is a magic item.
You can make scrolls with more than one spell on them, just slide under 1k gp value.-James
So again, you make a scroll with 6-7 spells on it that costs less than 1k gp and you're good for that adventuring day.
-James
This is not true, you might want to brush up on your Magic Item Creation first.
Scribing a scroll requires 1 day per 1,000 gp of the base price. Although an individual scroll might contain more than one spell, each spell must be scribed as a separate effort, meaning that no more than 1 spell can be scribed in a day.I think in 3.5 you could scribe 1 scroll a day, period, but that scroll could have 10 spells on it. In Pathfinder, you can scribe 1 spell a day. Depending on the GM, you are better off having 15 scrolls with 15 different spells, than 1 scrolls with 15 different spells. That 1 scroll can be sundered, disarmed, lost in the wind etc, and now you've lost all 15 spells, while with 15 different scrolls, you need 15 different checks to lose them all.
Thanks, I had missed that change myself. Good to know (well, not "good" for my witch, but you know what I mean...)
My wizards never take off their underwear (except when, y'know...). They just fully dry-clean themselves with prestidigitation daily (if not hourly). :3As a player, I've always viewed Mage Armor like your underwear, socks, full plate armor, etc. You get up in the morning and put it on. At night, you take it off to sleep. At very low levels you have to modify that a bit (put it on at the dungeon entrance), but the idea is the same.Tell me: Do all of your characters take their underwear off when they go to bed, or just the wizards?
My wizards generally don't like to get dirty and make copious use of prestidigitation for just this reason.
My wizards generally don't like to get dirty and make copious use of prestidigitation for just this reason.My wizards never take off their underwear (except when, y'know...). They just fully dry-clean themselves with prestidigitation daily (if not hourly). :3As a player, I've always viewed Mage Armor like your underwear, socks, full plate armor, etc. You get up in the morning and put it on. At night, you take it off to sleep. At very low levels you have to modify that a bit (put it on at the dungeon entrance), but the idea is the same.Tell me: Do all of your characters take their underwear off when they go to bed, or just the wizards?
All my wizards have prestidigitation for pretty much this reason. If I was to pick a single spell in D&D that I could cast forever in reality, it would be this one. Merely because it is just so darn useful and practical. I mean, it creates flames (no need for a match), cleans stuff (my favorite), flavors foods (bread and water become pastries and wine), changes colors of things (create your own fashionable clothing, change your hair and eye color with your mood, whatever), and also preforms other minor feats of magic (moving coins across tables, changing the temperature of things, creating small breezes, etc), change odors (courtesy flushes are for muggles), etc.
My necromancers use this spell to clean and maintain their undead. Most of my undead are hardcore logical people. More scientists and scholars of magic than they are bloodthirsty power hungry fools. They keep their skeletal undead polished, clean, and in clinical cleanliness. Their zombies are likewise kept totally clean and any odors or rot that was present before their animation removed. Once they're undead they don't rot anymore (because they are now creatures that do not decompose). Generally they shall be dressed in dark cloaks and peasant robes.
Prestidigitation is one of the spells I have the absolute most fun with from a purely roleplaying stance. It also has practical applications. Throw off scent trails by removing the odors that you leave behind, change the smell of your familiar to match your own and your scent to match the forest around you and send a blood hound on a wild goose chase before the wild goose flies off into the air and meets your elsewhere. Use it to provide circumstantial bonuses to disguise. "As part of my disguise check, I change my hair and eye color. Good for a +2? Okay, cool". Use it to hide the flavor of a poison ("Mm, what kind of tea did you say this was again?", "Black Lotus." "Oh, how lov...ughhh..."). Use it to impress children by pulling coins from their ears that are fake and crumble to glittery dust in their hands.
If I was to pick a single reason I'd rather play a wizard over a psion (I love psionics), it would be prestidigitation. :3
This is not true, you might want to brush up on your Magic Item Creation first.Scribing a scroll requires 1 day per 1,000 gp of the base price. Although an individual scroll might contain more than one spell, each spell must be scribed as a separate effort, meaning that no more than 1 spell can be scribed in a day.I think in 3.5 you could scribe 1 scroll a day, period, but that scroll could have 10 spells on it. In Pathfinder, you can scribe 1 spell a day.Thanks I had missed that PF change.
You are still limited by 1000gp/day, so you might not even get one scroll done in a day.
In 3.5 you could scribe as many on a single scroll as you could memorize up to the 1k gp price.
-James
That is such awesomeness. It'd be like creating a mini-wand of low-level spells. You could fit 40 CL 1 1st level spells on a scroll per day, or 80 CL 1 0-level spells on a scroll per day. Man, I never even realized that in 3.x. Haha.
Prestidigitation is one of the spells I have the absolute most fun with from a purely roleplaying stance. It also has practical applications. Throw off scent trails by removing the odors that you leave behind, change the smell of your familiar to match your own and your scent to match the forest around you and send a blood hound on a wild goose chase before the wild goose flies off into the air and meets your elsewhere. Use it to provide circumstantial bonuses to disguise. "As part of my disguise check, I change my hair and eye color. Good for a +2? Okay, cool". Use it to hide the flavor of a poison ("Mm, what kind of tea did you say this was again?", "Black Lotus." "Oh, how lov...ughhh..."). Use it to impress children by pulling coins from their ears that are fake and crumble to glittery dust in their hands.
I was overjoyed when planning a recent character when I noticed that with prestidigitation, she could...
1) Create small, fragile ojects, that are easily breakable;
2) Flavor said object to taste differently;
3) Heat said object;
4)Said object dissapears at the end of the spell duration*
So... at will freshly baked warm from the "oven" chocolate chip cookies for everyone! And you get to indulge in the deliciousness without the caloric intake*, too!
*I think... If not, then replace "guilt free indulgence" with "cure for world hunger," whatever...
If I was to pick a single reason I'd rather play a wizard over a psion (I love psionics), it would be prestidigitation. :3
Don't know how "divided" PF psionics are, but would this trait help?
Prestidigitation is one of the spells I have the absolute most fun with from a purely roleplaying stance. It also has practical applications. Throw off scent trails by removing the odors that you leave behind, change the smell of your familiar to match your own and your scent to match the forest around you and send a blood hound on a wild goose chase before the wild goose flies off into the air and meets your elsewhere. Use it to provide circumstantial bonuses to disguise. "As part of my disguise check, I change my hair and eye color. Good for a +2? Okay, cool". Use it to hide the flavor of a poison ("Mm, what kind of tea did you say this was again?", "Black Lotus." "Oh, how lov...ughhh..."). Use it to impress children by pulling coins from their ears that are fake and crumble to glittery dust in their hands.I was overjoyed when planning a recent character when I noticed that with prestidigitation, she could...
1) Create small, fragile ojects, that are easily breakable;
2) Flavor said object to taste differently;
3) Heat said object;
4)Said object dissapears at the end of the spell duration*So... at will freshly baked warm from the "oven" chocolate chip cookies for everyone! And you get to indulge in the deliciousness without the caloric intake*, too!
*I think... If not, then replace "guilt free indulgence" with "cure for world hunger," whatever...
If I was to pick a single reason I'd rather play a wizard over a psion (I love psionics), it would be prestidigitation. :3Don't know how "divided" PF psionics are, but would this trait help?
Actually, that's wonderful. Thanks for the trait. It wouldn't work directly, but it'd be a good basis for a similar ability. Dreamscarred Psionics has a cantrip mechanic for manifesting minor powers without spending PPs, and this would fit right in. I'd totally be down with a psionic character having a prestidigitation power. I would forever more be happy. XD
This is not true, you might want to brush up on your Magic Item Creation first.Scribing a scroll requires 1 day per 1,000 gp of the base price. Although an individual scroll might contain more than one spell, each spell must be scribed as a separate effort, meaning that no more than 1 spell can be scribed in a day.I think in 3.5 you could scribe 1 scroll a day, period, but that scroll could have 10 spells on it. In Pathfinder, you can scribe 1 spell a day.Thanks I had missed that PF change.
You are still limited by 1000gp/day, so you might not even get one scroll done in a day.
There is an exception to the rule for potions and scrolls.
Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours. Potions and scrolls are an exception to this rule; they can take as little as 2 hours to create (if their base price is 250 gp or less). Scrolls and potions whose base prices is more than 250 gp but less than 1,000 gp, take 8 hours to create, just like any other magic item.
This is not true, you might want to brush up on your Magic Item Creation first.Scribing a scroll requires 1 day per 1,000 gp of the base price. Although an individual scroll might contain more than one spell, each spell must be scribed as a separate effort, meaning that no more than 1 spell can be scribed in a day.I think in 3.5 you could scribe 1 scroll a day, period, but that scroll could have 10 spells on it. In Pathfinder, you can scribe 1 spell a day.Thanks I had missed that PF change.
You are still limited by 1000gp/day, so you might not even get one scroll done in a day.
There is an exception to the rule for potions and scrolls.
Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours. Potions and scrolls are an exception to this rule; they can take as little as 2 hours to create (if their base price is 250 gp or less). Scrolls and potions whose base prices is more than 250 gp but less than 1,000 gp, take 8 hours to create, just like any other magic item.
That little mention of scribing/brewing time is for time management purposes only. I mentioned previously, that one needs to be more familiar with Magic Item Creation. Here's a Quote fro you:
The creator also needs a fairly quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place in which to work. Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items. Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours. Potions and scrolls are an exception to this rule; they can take as little as 2 hours to create (if their base price is 250 gp or less). Scrolls and potions whose base price is more than 250 gp, but less than 1,000 gp, take 8 hours to create, just like any other magic item. The character must spend the gold at the beginning of the construction process. Regardless of the time needed for construction, a caster can create no more than one magic item per day. This process can be accelerated to 4 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof) by increasing the DC to create the item by 5.
So let's say, I woke up at 9 AM, prepared my spells, walked from my campsite, back to my lair, which took 8 hours. I fixed myself a meal, worked on that suit of armor I've been forging forever, and did other things. It's getting late, but I look over and remember I have an order for a number of potions. I need to make one each day that I'm home. So I brew one of those Cure Light Wound Potions, which takes only a couple hours, then head to bed.
The same scenario applies for scribing scrolls, except, I may taking a short wagon ride to the nearest town, which takes a couple hours. Or I could be on a boat, and have duties to perform. Maybe a Ball or Party is coming up, and I'd like to get some work done.
Either way, no matter how you look at it, you are limited to 1 Magic Item created a day. This makes a person wonder. How exactly to the Magi-Marts keep up on Scrolls, Potions, and other things. They'd need to have hundreds of Casters working like a sweat shop to keep everything in stock.
Think about Ye Olde Shopekeeper. He's a retired Wizard that sells Scrolls. If you think about it, beyond running the Till, he only has to work roughly 2 hours in a day, unless someone puts in an order for a more expensive scroll. Talk about lazy.
Yeah, it's better to focus on not getting attacked at all then it is to focus on ac.
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I personally think the "one item a day" rule is silly for short-term things like potions and scrolls, and all my groups houserule it away. Take that for what it's worth.
I personally think the "one item a day" rule is silly for short-term things like potions and scrolls, and all my groups houserule it away. Take that for what it's worth.
Probably not a bad house rule. The alternative is simulacrum. If you really need lots of consumables, spend around 500 to 3000 gp per simulacrum to create little copies of yourself to make scrolls for you. You can provide the spells, they provide their time (which is your time, 'cause you own them).
Example: 13th level Wizard who too Scribe Scroll, Craft Wondrous, Craft Magic Arms & Armor, and Craft Construct, casts simulacrum and makes a copy of himself for 3,000 gp. The result is a 6th level wizard that can have all of the above feats and a spellcraft modifier of 9 + Intelligence score. Now make about 5 of these lil' guys (15,000 gp).
Now you can have them produce 5 scrolls per day, and if they need a spell they don't have, you can provide yours for the process.