A wildblooded sorcerer has a mutated version of a more common bloodline, with one arcana and at least one bloodline power that are different from those of an unmutated bloodline. When creating a wildblooded sorcerer, select an existing bloodline (such as one from the Core Rulebook, the Advanced Player’s Guide, or this book), then select one of the following mutated bloodlines associated with that bloodline. Use the normal bloodline’s class skill, bonus spells, and bonus feats, and the mutated bloodline’s bloodline arcana. Use the normal bloodline’s bloodline powers, except when the mutated bloodline replaces one of those powers.
I'm inclined to agree you can take wildblooded bloodlines because the rules don't really make a distinction between them and regular bloodlines. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if eventually it's errata'd to say that you cannot obtain a wildtype bloodline power without the arcana (so you can't take them with eldritch heritage).
Really? I do not recall seeing this anywhere. Do you have an actual rules reference to back this up?
Wildblooded bloodlines do require an archetype to select.
I believe that statement is based on the interpretation that any Sorcerer who has a 'mutated' version of a bloodline is a wildblooded sorcerer by virtue of having the mutated arcana and at least one bloodline power. Not that you must select the archetype to select the mutated bloodline.
EDIT: Did someone say flamewar? (possibly a little crude for some).
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
|
Ah, so we have the first person coming out and arguing that bloodlines are not bloodlines. I do not follow that logic, sir.
Also, the wildblood archetype doesn't do nothing. It does as much as any archetype. It modifies your class abilities.
What exactly about my logic didn't you follow?
Do you have an actual rules reference to back this up?
(regarding needing wildblooded archetype to select mutated bloodlines) Let me see if I understand your logic. You are saying that the mutated bloodlines can be selected whenever another game element references a bloodline. Therefore, a vanilla sorcerer can select a mutated bloodline without taking the wildblooded archetype, as per their bloodline class ability. But if that's the case, then the archetype literally does nothing as its only game effect is allowing the mutated bloodlines. This is a contradiction of your statement above where you say the archetype modifies your class abilities, since you would apparently have the same abilities without it.
They are called "bloodlines".
The Eldritch Heritage references only selecting a bloodline.
Er, where are they listed as bloodlines? If you can point me to any place where they are even called bloodlines besides the Wildblooded archetype entry, I'll be more likely to see your point.
They certainly aren't listed under any of the "Bloodlines" entries in any sorcerer section of any book. When a feat says to select an ability from a bloodline, why are you even looking under archetypes?
And they are called "mutated bloodlines." Again, adjectives are important.
(btw, I'm not seeing flaming going on here. I'm actually enjoying the discussion. Logic is fun)
|
yes, rules quotes have been provided that mutated bloodlines are NOT bloodlines (in the sense that they are freely available to any bloodline-related whatever)
wildblooded is an archetype that alter a class feature (like all archetype): this class feature is "bloodline" and it's altered into "mutated bloodline"
Lune, repeating something (without further argment or rule quotes) won't make it any truer...
above is my RAW interpretation : to be honest as DM I'd allow to pick mutated bloodlines via eldritch feat, but not a bllodline that replaces 2 thing at once, like the sylvan
le's face it another way: with eldritch feat you can have an apple : ho, nice, I'll take Sylvan apple . hmmm no sorry sir, sylvan apple is a pack "apple+banana" so does not fit in the promotion.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I still don't understand what people are arguing about. Wildblooded bloodlines are still bloodlines. I don't even understand the arguement that a bloodline is not, in fact, a bloodline.
I think this is why you're having trouble following the conversation.
Eldritch Heritage - Benefit: Select one sorcerer bloodline.
First, you are not given access to bloodlines, you are given access to a sorcerer bloodline. They are located under sorcerer bloodlines list in the base Sorcerer class.
The bloodlines given access through the Wildblooded archetype are mutated bloodlines.
Eldritch heritage gives you access to a sorcerer bloodline, not a mutated bloodline. By your own assertion the words used dictate access, and as you see, the eldritch heritage feat says nothing about mutated bloodline. Thus, it does not give you access to them by their exemption from the feat.
You are absolutely correct, they are both bloodlines however only the list located in the sorcerer class list are sorcerer bloodlines, and thus they are what, by wording, are provided access by the eldritch heritage feat.
I find the problem with Archetypes is they they aren't give a full stats as class but effectively that is what they are. Alternate class are just Archetypes that are given a full write up. So a wild blood sorcerer is still just sorcerer with out full write up because it swaps out only 1 blood power and would be a waste of space writing it up a it's own blood line. So mutated or no it is still a blood line.
Now if by RAW does eldrich heritage apply? I don't really know, that's a gray area in my opinion. I allow in my games but would it fly in PFS, that I have no idea.
@LazarX, I appreciate the concern of a thread-jack, on that note this thread is focusing a lot on the more general problem I brought up than the more specific one you addressed, but that's not really the worst thing that could happen, I'm interested in both questions. Indeed, the one most people are addressing is much more wide-reaching.
Keep hitting that FAQ button yall! I'm starting to swing back to agreeing with the "no wildblood for Eldritch Heritage" camp but I'm still not convinced it's definitive as written personally. I'm still going to insist it isn't resolvable as written, as this thread shows many people with all the relevant rules layed out and explained are still disagreeing on what it means.
For my take, I'm of the mind to forbid all access to the Wildblooded and Crossblooded stuff through the Heritage feats, simply on the basis because even without that access the feats are pretty close to being in the "too good" territory.It's a bit much to allow someone to take the central distinguishing guts of a class, even through feats.
Agreed, and 3PP doesn't help any of it. It happens, things get released and earlier abilities power creep because of increased options and there isn't the overhaul. Maybe down the road PF can try a re-assessment, but whenever something 'mimics' or copies class abilities, it should be very focused and specific in what it's copying, rather than risk misleading the public to believe that there's a very general brush painting from it.
Let me see if I understand your logic. You are saying that the mutated bloodlines can be selected whenever another game element references a bloodline. Therefore, a vanilla sorcerer can select a mutated bloodline without taking the wildblooded archetype, as per their bloodline class ability. But if that's the case, then the archetype literally does nothing as its only game effect is allowing the mutated bloodlines. This is a contradiction of your statement above where you say the archetype modifies your class abilities, since you would apparently have the same abilities without it.
Exactly. And note that nowhere does there exist a 'mutant bloodline' that can just be plugged into the Sorceror Bloodline Class Feature... The rules for the Archetype are necessary to interpolate between the Base Bloodline and the Mutant Bloodline, if you don't have the Archetype you can hardly claim the right to be applying it's rules, any more than one would apply 2 Handed Fighter Archetype rules.
Eldritch Heritage - Benefit: Select one sorcerer bloodline.
First, you are not given access to bloodlines, you are given access to a sorcerer bloodline. They are located under sorcerer bloodlines list in the base Sorcerer class.
The bloodlines given access through the Wildblooded archetype are mutated bloodlines.
Eldritch heritage gives you access to a sorcerer bloodline, not a mutated bloodline. By your own assertion the words used dictate access, and as you see, the eldritch heritage feat says nothing about mutated bloodline. Thus, it does not give you access to them by their exemption from the feat.
Exactly, and also exactly why 'mutated bloodlines' can't be selected by Vanilla Sorcerors with their Sorceror Bloodline Class Feature, but only thru the Archetype 'selection' of Mutated Bloodline (it's only a 'selection' if there's more than one possible mutation for a given Sorceror Bloodline, otherwise it's more of a 'dictation' based on the Sorceror Bloodline you already have).
Also note: Wildblooded Sorcerors still have the Sorceror Bloodline they selected, and they don't have two Sorceror Bloodlines (that is Cross-Blooded).
CERTAINLY, I would agree that it is a poor editing choice to name the Wildblooded Archetype's Class Feature 'mutant bloodlines' since by NORMAL ENGLISH that doesn't clearly distinguish it as a 'separate class' from the Sorceror Class Feature of Bloodlines - A better choice would have been to call it 'bloodline mutation' which is what the Archetype is actually doing, as I layed out above.
But poor editing choice or not, that doesn't get around the facts that Sorceror Bloodlines are modular choices for the Sorceror Bloodline Class Feature, and 'Mutant Bloodlines' are never presented as a valid choice for ANYBODY to choose for their Sorceror Bloodline - When you take the WB Archetype, you explicitly still choose Sorceror Bloodlines as per normal, and 'mutant bloodlines' are a 'mutation'/alternation applied to the base Bloodline (which you still have, just modified). When Eldrtich Heritage says to select a Sorceror Bloodline, it is semi-emulating the Sorceror Bloodline Class Feature, i.e. the FIRST choice a Wildblooded Sorceror makes (selecting the normal bloodline), not the SECOND choice of selecting the 'mutant bloodline' aka bloodline mutation (which AFAIK isn't actually a real selection since there aren't multiple mutation choices for any given sorceror bloodline, although that's a FUTURE possibility).
As I said in a previous post, I can see only one VERY narrow scenario where Eldritch Heritage can invoke Mutant Bloodline Powers: you qualify for Eldritch Heritage before taking Sorceror levels, then on the same level you gain a Feat to use on Eldritch Heritage you also take the 1st level in Sorceror: Wildblooded Archetype. Wildblooded Archetype's 'mutation of a bloodline' explicitly only applies to one EXISTING bloodline that must be chosen when 'creating' (becoming?) a Wildblooded... So if you really wanted to have a wierd build, you could choose to have it apply to the Bloodline you are gaining via Eldritch Heritage and have your 'main'/full Sorceror Class Feature Bloodline be an un-modified one - that can actually be useful if you are only interested in the Bloodline Powers of a Mutant Bloodline, but prefer the Arcana from a normal one.
'Mutant Bloodlines' are never presented as a valid choice for ANYBODY to choose for their Sorceror Bloodline
The FAQ for the Sage wildblooded bloodline expresses the possibility of a non-sorcerer having access to that Mutant Bloodline.
'Mutant Bloodlines' are never presented as a valid choice for ANYBODY to choose for their Sorceror BloodlineThe FAQ for the Sage wildblooded bloodline expresses the possibility of a non-sorcerer having access to that Mutant Bloodline.
This is actually a rather good point, as it indicates that taking the wildblooded archetype is not the only way to gain access to what it refers to as 'bloodline powers' (notwithstanding that the bloodline power specifically referred to comes from a wildblooded bloodline). Plot thickens.
Would you allow a Amateur Gunslinger to take the following?
Focused Aim, Up Close and Deadly, Steady Aim, Gun Tank's Resolve.
A bloodline by any other name would smell as sweet...
So your saying that a guy with minimal training can select these but that a trained gunslinger with no archetype can never learn how?
Starting a whole new thread on this to stop further derail,
Adding "mutant" before the "bloodline" does not make it any less of a "bloodline". You could call it a "Super Awesome Sanguine Sweet Magic Imbued Alchemical Bloodline" ....and it would still be a Bloodline. Being that The Eldritch Heritage only requires selecting a "bloodline" it is allowable per RAW.
I think that statement alone nullifies about the whole last page of rebuttals. But to the nay-sayers I do wonder what their response to the FAQ entry for the Sage wildblooded bloodline is. How else would one be getting access to that bloodline?
The bloatmage prestige class allows you to gain access to a bloodline by drinking the blood of something associated with it or the blood of a sorcerer with it.
A sorcerer with create Sanguine Elixer can bestow the use of one bloodline power to the drinker of the elixer.
How else would one be getting access to that bloodline?
Or more specifically, gain access to that one power from the mutant bloodline?
Hmmm... Create Sanguine Elixir from UM? That uses the recipient's own character level,so by inference, their own relevant stat (which would default to CHA if they don't have the Sage Arcana).
In any case, whether or not there is a CURRENT means to fulfill SKR's side comment about 'possibilities' doesn't change anything about what the RAW says.
'mutant bloodline' is not the same as 'sorceror bloodline'- BOTH of those terms are qualified/specified,
so arguments of 'a bloodline is a bloodline' are irrelevant.
EDIT: yeah, bloatmage was the one I was trying to remember... nobody remembers the fat guy until it's too late! :-)
note: my idea of somebody taking eldritch heritage at the same time (or before) as a level of wildblooded sorceror, as means for getting the mutant bloodline to apply to the eldritch heritage bloodline (instead of the full sorceror bloodline) doesn't actually work since eldritch heritage never actually says you gain the bloodline, you just gain the powers of it.
Your right, it doesn't change RAW. But by RAW a wildblooded bloodline is still by definition a bloodline. Until I see anything directly contradicting this it will not change my opinion because my opinion is based on that fact.
If a wildblooded bloodline, is not a bloodline, than a Robes of Arcane Heritage will not function for a wildblooded sorcerer.
At the risk of thread-derail, this raises an interesting point: certain archetypes (Razmiran priest for example) have abilities that replace bloodline abilities, but as written do not appear to be bloodline abilities themselves - e.g. Razmiran channel. It would seem to me that the Robe of Arcane Heritage would not allow, say, a 5th level sorcerer to gain Razmiran Channel since that ability replaces his 9th level bloodline ability rather than modifying the bloodline itself.
How dare you apply the same logic being used to say that wildblooded is not a bloodline for the purpose of eldrich heritage to another area of the game, BBT!
If a wildblooded bloodline, is not a bloodline, than a Robes of Arcane Heritage will not function for a wildblooded sorcerer.
Not necessarily. (And I'm only playing devil's advocate here, because I don't subscribe to either side of this argument)
The term "sorcerer" in Robes of Arcane Heritage refers to the effective sorcerer level of the wearer of the robes, ie. it refers to class levels in a class. The convention when referring to class levels in this sort of context is to fold all archetypes under the same umbrella class. "Sorcerer" in this case would clearly refer to wildblooded and crossblooded sorcerers, just as the term "Fighter" in weapon specialization clearly refers to Archers and Two-Weapon Warriors.
WHEREAS
The term "sorcerer" in Eldritch heritage refers not to class levels, actual or effective; it is merely a descriptor for the term "bloodline". There is no convention on how class names are to be interpreted in this context. Common sense might suggest that you would interpret it in the same way as you would the term "sorcerer" in Robes of Arcane Heritage… or it might not.
The point I'm making, is that neither side of this argument can come to a crisp, single, RAW conclusion, without making certain inferences and assumptions.
The problem is that both sides refuse to recognize there own inferences as such, and instead trumpet that they have "fact" on their side.
In actuality, the "fact" that the powers granted by the wildblooded archetype might constitute a complete bloodline that can be taken with the Eldritch heritage feat is merely an inference drawn from common sense and some self-contradictory text in the wildblooded archetype. It seems to be a fairly strong inference, but it's not based on an infallible premise.
EDIT: And if you think this is completely ridiculous, Jason Bulmahn recently clarified that the term "humanoid" in the 15th level martial artist's ability doesn't in fact mean "humanoid". So there :P
Next you'll be telling us that you can't use Sorcerous Bloodstrike or Sorcerous Strike when you are Wildblooded. Heck, for that matter even the earlier mentioned Sanguine Elixir couldn't be created if you were Wildblooded because you wouldn't have any bloodline to transfer into the elixir... all you got is this crappy "mutated bloodline" and we all know that is something completely different, right? /sarcasm
Sorry, but BBT is right. If your in for a dime your in for a dollar on this argument. If Wildblooded bloodlines are not considered bloodlines for Eldrich Heritage then you don't get to pick and choose what they ARE considered bloodlines for.
Bardic Dave: With Eldrich Heritage you have an effective Sorcerer level. Is it not possible that it could be referring to that as well?
edit: ninja'd it seems.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Next you'll be telling us that you can't use Sorcerous Bloodstrike or Sorcerous Strike when you are Wildblooded. Heck, for that matter even the earlier mentioned Sanguine Elixir couldn't be created if you were Wildblooded because you wouldn't have any bloodline to transfer into the elixir... all you got is this crappy "mutated bloodline" and we all know that is something completely different, right? /sarcasm
Sorry, but BBT is right. If your in for a dime your in for a dollar on this argument. If Wildblooded bloodlines are not considered bloodlines for Eldrich Heritage then you don't get to pick and choose what they ARE considered bloodlines for.
Well, again, I'm only playing Devil's advocate here. And read the edit at the bottom of my last post. As far as those other abilities are concerned, it's actually not at all inconsistent to say that sorcerous strike works differently because of the completely different language employed. A bloodline power is not a bloodline. As for Sanguine Elixir, there's nothing internally inconsistent with saying it doesn't work for wildblooded bloodlines either, as far as I can see.
I think the point I'm making though is twofold:
1) The same term CAN have different meanings in different contexts. You're operating on the assumption that this is not the case.
2) The text in the wildblooded archetype is self contradictory. In order to reach a logically consistent interpretation of this passage, certain inferences must be drawn, and certain other potions of the text must be discounted. You've chosen to ignore the portion that says "You choose a bloodline, and the wildblooded archetype gives you alternate powers" in favour of the part that says "this mutated bloodline". The problem is that these two passages are inconsistent. They can't be reconciled without an assumption being made. You're assuming that one is subservient to the other, and you're appealing to common sense to explain why. This is a fairly strong argument. However, it doesn't actually invalidate the logic of the other side of the argument, which has chosen to make different assumptions to account for the inconsistency. This isn't so much an argument about logic then, as it is an argument about premises. And there's no way, except for a Dev coming in to clarify, that we can know which premise is the correct one.
Bardic Dave: With Eldrich Heritage you have an effective Sorcerer level. Is it not possible that it could be referring to that as well?
edit: ninja'd it seems.
Different parts of the feat use the term sorcerer differently. Yes, it's entirely possible to interpret the two separate usages of "sorcerer" in the same way. Yes, this is a potentially correct answer. No, it's not the only logically consistent answer. If you look at my post though, it's not as if the other side of the argument lives or dies on this sorcerer distinction.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Adding "mutant" before the "bloodline" does not make it any less of a "bloodline". You could call it a "Super Awesome Sanguine Sweet Magic Imbued Alchemical Bloodline" ....and it would still be a Bloodline. Being that The Eldritch Heritage only requires selecting a "bloodline" it is allowable per RAW.
I think that statement alone nullifies about the whole last page of rebuttals. But to the nay-sayers I do wonder what their response to the FAQ entry for the Sage wildblooded bloodline is. How else would one be getting access to that bloodline?
All I can say is read the post again. We all agree they are bloodline, they just aren't 'sorcerer bloodlines'. We're not adding 'mutant', the table specifically identifies them as 'mutant bloodlines'.
Period...
In order to reach a logically consistent interpretation of this passage, certain inferences must be drawn, and certain other potions of the text must be discounted. You've chosen to ignore the portion that says "You choose a bloodline, and the wildblooded archetype gives you alternate powers" in favour of the part that says "this mutated bloodline". The problem is that these two passages are inconsistent. They can't be reconciled without an assumption being made.
Actually, if we read them together, we could conclude that the archetype gives you alternate powers to the bloodline initially chosen, and that the resulting product is what is referred to as a "mutated bloodline".
All I can say is read the post again. We all agree they are bloodline, they just aren't 'sorcerer bloodlines'. We're not adding 'mutant', the table specifically identifies them as 'mutant bloodlines'.Period...
Are we in danger of overly-splitting hairs if we say that mutant bloodlines are not sorcerer bloodlines?
Bardic Dave isn't trying to make points about the fine-detail of the argument, he's pointing out that both sides of the argument are logically consistent and depend on making certain assumptions about how to interpret certain words and phrases. The only way to resolve the debate is for a dev to just tell us which assumptions are the correct ones.
Are we in danger of overly-splitting hairs if we say that mutant bloodlines are not sorcerer bloodlines?
Again, this depends on a certain interpretation of "Sorcerer bloodlines." Wildblooded "mutant bloodlines" ARE bloodlines that a sorcerer can get (using an archetype). You have to interpret "sorcerer bloodline" a certain way to reach your conclusion and it is not definitive that yours is the correct interpretation without dev input.
Edit: It took an FAQ to determine that druids and inquisitors could take subdomains. I think if that took an FAQ, then this issue probably ought to get one as well O.o
Bardic Dave isn't trying to make points about the fine-detail of the argument, he's pointing out that both sides of the argument are logically consistent and depend on making certain assumptions about how to interpret certain words and phrases. The only way to resolve the debate is for a dev to just tell us which assumptions are the correct ones.
Are we in danger of overly-splitting hairs if we say that mutant bloodlines are not sorcerer bloodlines?Again, this depends on a certain interpretation of "Sorcerer bloodlines." Wildblooded "mutant bloodlines" ARE bloodlines that a sorcerer can get (using an archetype). You have to interpret "sorcerer bloodline" a certain way to reach your conclusion and it is not definitive that yours is the correct interpretation without dev input.
Chill, mate, I actually respect that Dave seems to be one of the few open-minded commentors willing to consider all positions evenly, which was why I'm making the suggestion to him. I'm suggesting that the statements can be reconciled, and am interested to see whether he agrees, and if so, how his weighing of the positions might vary.
As for the response to Quori, I was merely pointing out that, well, having identified one of the essential elements of the discussion, there's room to take a step back and consider whether the argument is arising from being overly pedantic.
I don't have a vested interest in either position, so I don't have a fixed "definition", as you put it. I am however curious about hos this discussion will play out. To that end, I am simply trying to advance the discussion.
If Wildblooded bloodlines are not considered bloodlines for Eldrich Heritage then you don't get to pick and choose what they ARE considered bloodlines for.What about other Sorcerer archetypes? Can we take those bloodline abilities via arcane heritage? Why or why not?
-James
I reckon that in the case of the other archetypes, what happens is that your bloodline power is replaced with an ability that is independant of your bloodline. Wildblooded however seems to amend the bloodline itself. Happy to hear your thoughts on whether this is a real or substantive distinction though.
If Wildblooded bloodlines are not considered bloodlines for Eldrich Heritage then you don't get to pick and choose what they ARE considered bloodlines for.What about other Sorcerer archetypes? Can we take those bloodline abilities via arcane heritage? Why or why not?
Other sorcerer archetypes don't give bloodline powers of any sort, they eliminate bloodline powers and grant specific separate features in their place.
Lay Healer for Razmiran priest simply eliminates a bloodline power and grants its effect seperately, it doesn't indicate that it is an alternate bloodline power.
The Tattooed Sorcerer features work similarly besides the Bloodline Tattoos ability, which is a feature gained that modifies bloodline powers but is separate from them.
Edit: Ninja'd by Fiddler =P
If Wildblooded bloodlines are not considered bloodlines for Eldrich Heritage then you don't get to pick and choose what they ARE considered bloodlines for.What about other Sorcerer archetypes? Can we take those bloodline abilities via arcane heritage? Why or why not?
Other sorcerer archetypes don't give bloodline powers of any sort, they eliminate bloodline powers and grant specific separate features in their place.
Lay Healer for Razmiran priest simply eliminates a bloodline power and grants its effect seperately, it doesn't indicate that it is an alternate bloodline power.
The Tattooed Sorcerer features work similarly esides the Bloodline Tattoos ability, which is a feature gained that modifies bloodline powers but is separate from them.
Which actually may mean that those abilities cannot in fact be gained via Robes of arcane heritage or Sanguine Elixirs. For that matter, a dragon disciple may also not be able to obtain them via blood of dragons - or perhaps only his sorcerer levels will determine which powers are replced by his archetype, and any higher level powers obtained via blood of dragons will reference the original bloodline?
Which actually may mean that those abilities cannot in fact be gained via Robes of arcane heritage or Sanguine Elixirs. For that matter, a dragon disciple may also not be able to obtain them via blood of dragons - or perhaps only his sorcerer levels will determine which powers are replced by his archetype, and any higher level powers obtained via blood of dragons will reference the original bloodline?
That's how I would interpret it also. I believe another sorcerer with the indicated bloodline powers could grant them via a sanguine elixir to an archetyped sorcerer who loses them, but the archetyped sorcerer couldn't create those elixirs himself.
The archetypes remove bloodline powers but don't replace them with other bloodline powers, so the robes of arcane heritage wouldn't grant any new abilities for those archetypes.
As for Dragon Disciple, I'd need to read the rules regarding how they work before I decided on that one. It might be problematic if an archetyped sorcerer was 1 level away from a bloodline power replacement but took a dragon disciple level. What happens if they take another sorcerer level? Would it replace the power they had just gained through dragon disciple?
As for Dragon Disciple, I'd need to read the rules regarding how they work before I decided on that one. It might be problematic if an archetyped sorcerer was 1 level away from a bloodline power replacement but took a dragon disciple level. What happens if they take another sorcerer level? Would it replace the power they had just gained through dragon disciple?
Now THAT is an interesting conundrum!
I reckon that the rules would actually require you to lose the bloodline ability in place of the archetype ability, but as a GM I'd hate to have to enforce such a rule. I'd probably houserule in my games that you keep the ability you got via blood of dragons, since I generally dislike having class features dynamically changed like that, especially if it would cause the DD to lose a physical manifestation like his wings!
Your thoughts?
I would probably just have the Dragon Disciple level grant whatever ability the sorcerer gets in it's place, or make the subsequent sorcerer levels not grant the replacement ability. Not sure what the official ruling would be though.
This is kind of getting away from the topic of this thread though =P
I suppose that would be the least messy way on handling it, and yes, we have drifted a little off-topic. XD Fun exercise though. =)
I'm just hoping we actually get a dev response or something that can settle this for sure >_<
Thanks James, I see where you are coming from.
Hmm...I'd say that the wildblooded archetype changes what the bloodline itself is, whilst an archetype like the tattooed sorcerer preserves the original bloodline, but changes the sorcerer's class such that instead of getting the appropriate bloodline power at the appropriate level, he instead gets separate powers that have nothing to do with the bloodline.
The reason for this would be that the wildblooded abilities tend to have the line "This bloodline power replaces (specific bloodline power).", whereas archetypes like tattooed sorcerer have the line "This ability replaces her first level bloodline power.". In the case of the wildblooded sorcerer, the new ability is still referred to as a "bloodline power", whilst with the other archetypes, the new ability (which is not called a bloodline power) replaces a bloodline power of the appropriate level.
So if I were asked what a wildblooded sanguine sorcerer's 1st level bloodline ability was, I'd say it was the "blood is the life". If I were asked what a tattooed sorcerer's 1st level bloodline ability was, I'd say that he didn't have one, but he got familiar tattoo in instead.
Where does that leave us with multiple archetypes? Hmm...I'd say that although the tattooed sorcerer and wildblooded sanguine archetypes affect the first level bloodline power in different ways (one changing the bloodline power within the bloodline, and thus arguably changing the bloodline itself; the other entirely removing the sorcerer's ability to gain the bloodline power of a certain level in favor of a seperate ability), they still affect the same bloodline power, so they are still incompatible.
At least, this seems to be the most consistent way I can think of to read the rules. Feel free, however, to point out if there are any inconsistencies in my reasoning. =)