Sorcerer Dip, Eldritch Heritage, and Sylvan Bloodline


Rules Questions

151 to 169 of 169 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>

Lune wrote:

See, thats kinda what my point of it was. It really seems more like they wanted to introduce alternatives to existing bloodlines rather than make actual archetypes.

Thats what I was going for with the whole "Hey, we have these new bloodlines that are similar to the old bloodlines that are available. Since the new class options are being called "archetypes" why not just fit it in under that section?" thing.

Given the set of rules that we have, your reading of them leads you to believe that the rules are in error.

My suggestion: assume that the rules are not in error and see what conclusions you are forced to take. See if that answer is palatable or not for you. If it is there you go, while if not then house rule it to something that is.

-James


I think it's nice that Sorcerers finally have toys that no other class can steal.


james maissen wrote:
Given the set of rules that we have, your reading of them leads you to believe that the rules are in error.

I think the RAW is fairly clear on this point, if one tries to read the archetype without colouring the interpretation by how one hopes/wants/thinks it aught to work.

It is quite simple to house-rule your way out of though, if someone think the presentation is clumsy.


Mutated Bloodlines would be rather hard to select via Eldritch Heritage because they don't have Bloodline Class Skills, and you have to take Skill Focus in the Bloodline Class Skill of the Bloodline whose power's you want to gain via Eldritch Heritage. Wildblooded Sorcerors are gaining the Class Skill from the normal Sorceror Bloodline they originally selected and still HAVE (along with the Bonus Feat list, Spells, etc) but that depends on a separate and distinct 'selection' of Bloodline, while Eldritch Heritage only gives you one selection.

I find it amusing how people can so vigorously argue about the rules, and how they must conform to their vision, while simultaneously insulting Paizo's competencies... i.e. the people who wrote the rules. Arguing that the rules must work a certain way because that is the only logical, balanced (etc) reading is rather undercut when one also proclaims that Paizo is prone to writing illogical, unbalanced rules. Don't like Paizo, don't use their games... Whining just comes off as infantile.


FiddlersGreen wrote:

For those interested in James Jacobs' take, I asked this question of him:

"Are the wildblooded bloodlines bloodlines in their own right? Would you be able to select wildblooded bloodlines with the Eldritch Heritage feats and would a wildblooded sorcerer be able to utilise a Robe of Arcane Heritage?"

His answer:

"No, they aren't. That's why they're not listed as bloodlines, but instead listed as archetypes. Things like Eldritch Heritage and that robe would work off of the associated non-mutated bloodline's rules, and would likely need your GM's adjudication to clear up problems should they arise.
"

It makes sense as they are listed as sub-archetypes. In either case, it's good to have closure. Thanks FG.


I'm pretty sure the Robe of Arcane Heritage works fine, the Wildblooded Archetype swaps out the Mutated Bloodine Power for the base Sorceror Bloodline Power, but you still 'have' the base Sorceror Bloodline (the Robe's stitching would apparently look the same whether you had the Wildblooded variant or not) and the Mutated Bloodline Powers are still 'Bloodline Powers' which is all that Eldritch Heritage cares about. The same goes for Bloatmage and Sanguine elixers, which merely reference 'Bloodline Powers'. It's just Eldritch Heritage (and Vanilla Sorceror's Bloodline Ability) that specifies choosing a SORCEROR Bloodline (and you qualify for Eldritch Heritage based on the Class Skill of the desired Bloodline, which doesn't exist for Mutated Bloodlines, per previous post above).

To sum up, the RAW works just fine and doesn't need any Errata, it just doesn't work like how Lune wants it to.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

I removed a post. Let it go.


I wrote:
Mutated Bloodline Powers are still 'Bloodline Powers' which is all that Eldritch Heritage cares about

whoops... that was still talking about Robe of Arcane Heritage, NOT Eldritch Heritage.


Quori wrote:


It makes sense as they are listed as sub-archetypes. In either case, it's good to have closure. Thanks FG.

No worries. It's been an interesting discussion, but closure to a long-debated topic is always good. =)

Quandary wrote:

I'm pretty sure the Robe of Arcane Heritage works fine, the Wildblooded Archetype swaps out the Mutated Bloodine Power for the base Sorceror Bloodline Power, but you still 'have' the base Sorceror Bloodline (the Robe's stitching would apparently look the same whether you had the Wildblooded variant or not) and the Mutated Bloodline Powers are still 'Bloodline Powers' which is all that Eldritch Heritage cares about. The same goes for Bloatmage and Sanguine elixers, which merely reference 'Bloodline Powers'. It's just Eldritch Heritage (and Vanilla Sorceror's Bloodline Ability) that specifies choosing a SORCEROR Bloodline (and you qualify for Eldritch Heritage based on the Class Skill of the desired Bloodline, which doesn't exist for Mutated Bloodlines, per previous post above).

To sum up, the RAW works just fine and doesn't need any Errata, it just doesn't work like how Lune wants it to.

I totally agree that the Robes will still work. From James' response, you are functionally a sorcerer of the appropriate bloodline, except you have an archetype.

I wonder however whether the robes grant abilities from archetypes that replace bloodline powers with a separate abilities independant of the the bloodline. The Razmiran Channeling ability of the Razmiran priest, for instance, does not seem to itself be a bloodline power; rather it seems to replace the sorcerer's ability to gain a 9th level bloodline power. So if a seventh level Razmiran priest were to put on the robes, would he:

1. gain nothing?

2. gain Razmiran Channeling?

3. gain the 9th level bloodline power of his bloodline?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I would not say there has been closure.

James Jacobs has said multiple times that his answers are what he would rule in his own games, and are not to be considered Developer FAQ answers, those have to come from Jason Buhlman & Sean K Reynolds.

So in other words, as much as I respect James Jacobs, anything he posts is his opinion and not official Paizo response when it comes to FAQ/Rules interpretations. His house rules have often conflicted with official FAQ entries, both before and after the FAQ creation.


Quandary wrote:
I find it amusing how people can so vigorously argue about the rules, and how they must conform to their vision, while simultaneously insulting Paizo's competencies... i.e. the people who wrote the rules.

It is amusing, isn't it? I had that same thought about you. Notice how I don't feel the burning desire to call you out specifically on a forum though? Also, it is true that Paizo wrote the rules, but as mdt brought up in his post above, James Jacobs did not. By his own admission James is not a rules guy. At all.

That being said, nothing has changed here. We still do not have any answer on this from a developer.

Quandary wrote:
To sum up, the RAW works just fine and doesn't need any Errata, it just doesn't work like how Lune wants it to.

Right. Because someone can't have an opinion that differs from yours without you calling them out specifically? Please note that I am not alone in my opinion. Have a look through the thread. I think you will see that it is clear that there needs to be a bit of clarity on this issue. The RAW support the opinions of multiple different perspectives here.

Might I suggest on backing off from what is bordering on personal attacks against me at this point, Quandary? Ross has already had to visit the thread once to make sure the "Don't be a jerk." rule was being enforced. My guess is that if he has to do it a second time it will simply lead to thread lock.

I agree with mdt, there has not been closure on this issue. I'll be keeping my eyes open for more input on this in the future.


I agree as well. Marked as FAQ.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Lune wrote:

/facepalm

Why are people asking James to clear up rules questions when that is the purview of developers?

Because he's the guy with the open door.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Paizo attention, is Paizo attention.
Basically, it gets the foot in the door when people go to James.
Besides, he's a nice guy.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Paizo attention, is Paizo attention.

Basically, it gets the foot in the door when people go to James.
Besides, he's a nice guy.

He's a very nice guy who has repeatedly asked that his opinions NOT be touted as 'word from on high' with regards to official rulings.

I still don't understand why people can't just do as he asks and treat his responses as just that, his responses, not Paizo's. I'm frankly shocked he still answers questions at all.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Some people, just don't know.


Luckily we now have Exotic Heritage Feat to end the argument! Anumal companions for all!


Indeed. Chuckles while counting up the current sale.

151 to 169 of 169 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Sorcerer Dip, Eldritch Heritage, and Sylvan Bloodline All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.