and here is the last type in OoG, Religion..
Blessing of the Feast (Zura): You come from a cannibal tribe, and find strength in the flesh of your foes. Whenever you eat the flesh or drink the blood of another orc—a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity— you gain the favor of Zura and receive a +1 natural armor bonus for 1 minute/level. You can only receive this benefit once per day.
Fury (Rovagug): The flood of battle and destruction stirs deep within you. When wielding a greataxe, you receive a +2 trait bonus on attack rolls to confirm critical hits.
Mother’s Rage (Lamashtu): The blood of the beast runs thick in your veins, and your appearance is bestial. You receive a +1 trait bonus on Survival checks, and you treat your caster level as +1 higher when summoning creatures.
Sacred Smasher (Rovagug): Your love of carnage extends even to the defenseless, inanimate objects around you. Whenever you make an attempt to break an object, you receive a +2 trait bonus on your Strength check.
@Gauss: My recommendation for Blade of Mercy would be a Orange/Blue or even purple rating similar to threatening defender.
Cause really in a build focused around non lethal damage it's so good you'd likely take it even if it were a feat. Also consider that's much better than bludgeoner not only because of the +1 to damage and slashing weapons generally being better than bludgeoning ones but also because of the higher threat range of slashing weapons when paired with Enforcer and the Thug Rogue archetype.
Alex Mack, the build around nonlethal damage is very specific and very rare and really rather suboptimal. As I have pointed out earlier. The entire group would have to deal out nonlethal to really make it effective.
Anyhow, it isn't my guide.
- Gauss
@ Biblical - Thanks man. I appreciate the help.
I'm a little surprised Inner Beauty (Shelyn) got the lowest ranking possible. I personally have found the ability to give myself a +4 to Bluff or Diplomacy after the roll has been made rather useful for my skillmonkey Bard and since they're both already class skills for a Bard anyway, I don't need to add them to my class skill list.
Love the guide
Why hasn't anyone added this to the Guide to the Guides yet?
Love the guide
Why hasn't anyone added this to the Guide to the Guides yet?
Thanks. I'm not sure how it gets added. I'm not completely done though. Working on the Regional traits as we speak.
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Ok, found another one where I'm surprised you ranked a trait so low.
The Helpful halfling trait, which you even said could be rather useful in your description, is only green. I'd definitely call that one blue.
I think the key thing you overlooked is that it's not just good for skills. It helps in combat, too. From the Combat chapter of the Core Rulebook:
Aid Another
In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.
For someone like my heal/buff halfling cleric who has 7 strength and a small sized dagger as his only melee weapon, this gives him a way to help his allies in combat even when he runs out of magic or wants to save it for later. The Helpful trait would make his aid worth a +4 bonus instead of +2. That's pretty big for a hit roll.
Honestly, this is the first trait I'd consider taking with almost any halfling character. I'm seriously considering giving it to both of my Pathfinder Society halflings.
Ok, found another one where I'm surprised you ranked a trait so low.
The Helpful halfling trait, which you even said could be rather useful in your description, is only green. I'd definitely call that one blue.
I think the key thing you overlooked is that it's not just good for skills. It helps in combat, too. From the Combat chapter of the Core Rulebook:
Aid Another
In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.
For someone like my heal/buff halfling cleric who has 7 strength and a small sized dagger as his only melee weapon, this gives him a way to help his allies in combat even when he runs out of magic or wants to save it for later. The Helpful trait would make his aid worth a +4 bonus instead of +2. That's pretty big for a hit roll.
Honestly, this is the first trait I'd consider taking with almost any halfling character. I'm seriously considering giving it to both of my Pathfinder Society halflings.
It is really nice. I was wavering between blue and green when I ranked it. I will move it up to blue.
Most? Have you not looked at the number of fast healing and regenerating creatures out there?
- Gauss
Edit: Just to add this in, my belief on color coding is that a trait for a very narrow build is not as valuable as a trait for general builds. If I would rank a trait as 'high' for a narrow build but it is not general enough to apply to others then I would drop it a couple ranks. For example: I could see this trait being blue for your build but orange for everything else. Hence why I suggested orange.
James, the point is that ANY healing will do double healing because of the nonlethal damage. Every point of healing restores 1 point of nonlethal and 1 point of lethal damage at the same time. That is what is bad about nonlethal damage.
As for your AC example. +1AC is beneficial to the majority of fighters. Lightly armored fighters are the rarity. I would rate that trait blue as a result (not purple since it is limited to fighters). You are making my point for me, thank you.
- Gauss
I agree the trait rocks for those doing non-lethal damage. On this we agree. Where we disagree is how to rate such a trait. You believe that a highly valued trait for a narrow build should be rated highly. I do not.
Regarding Archers: my fighter archer build uses medium armor at level 1 and heavy armor at level 7. When the speed restriction on armor is removed why would I not want to make use of it? Yes, I would lower the rating (3 steps actually) if it were limited to females only. What a way to ruin a good trait.
Regarding the +2CL argument. That trait benefits nearly all paladins, rangers and then anyone who is multiclassed. Thus, it is not nearly as narrow a trait as the non-lethal damage trait.
As I said, I would reduce the rankings of a trait by 1-3 levels depending on the narrowness of the audience the trait would be applied to. This is what I suggest to the OP and I stand by that. With that said, I believe it is Dragonamedrake's deal and he has done pretty well. If you want to do it your own way by all means create your own guide.
- Gauss
james maissen:
To use your own words: I think you are not factoring in the intent of the guide itself. This is not a trait guide designed for an archer. This is not a trait guide designed for any specific build. From what I understand Dragonamedrakes purpose to be it is a guide to benefit the widest range of concepts.
If I went to read an archer guide and I saw power attack listed as a high priority I would be wondering what the author was thinking. But if I went to a general feat guide and I saw deadly aim being green or blue instead of purple I would understand. Deadly aim only applies to ranged attacks. For a ranged attacker it is purple...for those classes that do not make ranged attacks it is a red. Thus it deserves a 1-2step drop as the number of ranged attackers out there are vastly smaller than the melee attackers.
Treat this guide as what it is meant to be: a broad guide aimed at the masses. Not a treatise on each and every combination of abilities and class.
- Gauss
P.S. If I am wrong may Dragonamedrake strike me down! LOL j/k. But seriously, Dragonamedrake, if I am wrong about the purpose of this guide let me know.
Sorry about the absence. I have been dealing with the after affect of my surgery. I will be back tomorrow to reply to everyone's post and to finish up the guide.
Done with the Regional Traits! All the Traits have been ranked now!
Now I'm moving on the some reorganizing and creating the Skill Trait section.
Almost done!
Take a look at my Skill Trait Section and see what you think? Do you like how I organized it?
Dragonamedrake, one thing I find missing is requirements (fighter, society membership, etc). Unfortunately those are often not included on the D20PFSRD. If you do not have the books I can send you a list of those requirements (probably next week).
- Gauss
Dragonamedrake, one thing I find missing is requirements (fighter, society membership, etc). Unfortunately those are often not included on the D20PFSRD. If you do not have the books I can send you a list of those requirements (probably next week).
- Gauss
Sure... I would appreciate that.
Strength of the Sun should be higher rating for charisma based casters because their concentration checks are charisma based checks.
It is really good for a lore oracle that replaces intelligence for knowledge checks (+1 to every knowledge skill), also they can replace reflex saving throws with charisma as well so +1 reflex save (this is their poor save too), also arguably their AC is also now a charisma check instead of a dexterity check, so maybe +1 AC.
Combine it with Noble Scion of War, which changes your initiative check to a charisma check too.
So this one trait can potentially give you a +1 on a whole slew of skills, concentration checks, initiative check, reflex saves and arguably AC too.
I think this definitely deserves a bump in rating.
First off... thanks for the post.
You are correct about adding +1 to concentration checks for Cha based casters. I will add that.
So you are correct that if you take the Feat Noble Scion of War would give you a +1 to initiative. The verbiage under initiative describes it as a "check".
However a Lore Noble would only gain a +1 to Knowledges. The Reflex save is just that... a save. Not a check. Its not a Dexterity check or a Charisma Check if you take the revelation to change it to Charisma. It simply adds Dex( or Cha in this case) to the SAVE. They are two different things. A Save is not an Check per say. On the same note, it would not give you a +1 to Armor class as that is also not a "Dexterity Check". It simply adds your Dex (or Cha in this case) to your Armor Class.
So to sum up.
It would add a +1 to Knowledge skills for one Mystery of one class
It would add +1 to concentration to Charisma Casters.
It would add +1 Initiative if you have one of five choices from one feat.
It would add +1 to Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Perform, and Use Magic Device checks.
It would add +1 to Checks that represent attempts to influence others.
It would add +1 to Channel energy DCs for clerics and paladins attempting to harm undead foes.
As you can see it can provide a wide range of bonuses, however most are very specific to certain classes/builds. It isn't even a win win for a whole class. Just one mystery of one class. Over all I might move it up, but I believe green (Good but there are better) rating is perfectly fine. I will change the description though. Thanks
The channel energy DC is a number, not a check. The enemy is making the check, you are not.
AC is not a check either (for the same reason). You are not rolling a d20, they enemy is.
Anytime you roll a D20 you are making a check.
Edit: Just a note (before someone goes there). Despite a paladin's charisma modifier value being added to his saving throws his charisma modifier is not being added. A number equal to his modifier is being added (it removes it one step). Thus a paladin's saves do not count as charisma checks. (There was a discussion about this in another thread.)
- Gauss
No, technically the alternate AC rule is a D20 check. AC in 3.X was not a check. Same thing for PF. There is no D20 roll on your part thus it is not a check.
While the logic was and continues to be 'average of a D20' that is simply to construct the ratio of hitting when compared to the enemy's D20 check. It does not make it a check unless it specifically states it is a check in exception to the rules on checks.
- Gauss
Taking 10 or taking 20 on a skill check is still a check. It specifically states this.
Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10.
Gignere, at no point anywhere in PF or 3.X EXCEPT perhaps that variant rule does it state that AC is a check. However it DOES state that D20 rolls are checks. Since AC is not a D20 roll it is not a check. Your attempt to extend the rules to it is exactly that. An extension. Anyhow, this is off-topic so I will stop talking about it here.
- Gauss
I've always understood a "check" to designate the d20 rolls where auto-success and failure did not apply. Skills checks, ability checks, caster level checks...
And thus saves and attack rolls are not "checks."
Indeed, in 3E combat maneuvers were all checks except for disarm and sunder (attack rolls) and thus did not fail on a 1 or succeed on a 20 necessarily. And PF, in making them all "attacks" changed this, and now auto-success/failure is an aspect of all combat maneuvers.
I've always understood a "check" to designate the d20 rolls where auto-success and failure did not apply. Skills checks, ability checks, caster level checks...
And thus saves and attack rolls are not "checks."
Indeed, in 3E combat maneuvers were all checks except for disarm and sunder (attack rolls) and thus did not fail on a 1 or succeed on a 20 necessarily. And PF, in making them all "attacks" changed this, and now auto-success/failure is an aspect of all combat maneuvers.
This is how I understand it. AC and Saves are not "checks" as far as I can figure.
@Gaus - oops your right about the Channel thing. I was looking under Charisma where it listed what it affected.
I did not say saves were not checks. I said DCs are not checks. I think Dragonamedrake intended to say 'save DCs'.
- Gauss
Got a response from James regarding Strength of the Sun:
Gauss wrote:
James, I understand the wording does that. I figured since you had a hand in the guide you might know what the intent was. It seems rather expansive to extend it to every charisma check.- Gauss
Well... the original idea was that it covers Charisma-based skill checks and turn undead checks... that's about it. Since then, the ways you can get Charisma checks from stacking feats and archetypes and more has grown. If you're going to hyperspecialize in making Charisma checks, though... I don't have a problem with you gaining an additional +1 bonus.
Not sure if that is relevant to your guide but it is interesting information.
- Gauss
Got a response from James regarding Strength of the Sun:
Gauss wrote:
James, I understand the wording does that. I figured since you had a hand in the guide you might know what the intent was. It seems rather expansive to extend it to every charisma check.- Gauss
Well... the original idea was that it covers Charisma-based skill checks and turn undead checks... that's about it. Since then, the ways you can get Charisma checks from stacking feats and archetypes and more has grown. If you're going to hyperspecialize in making Charisma checks, though... I don't have a problem with you gaining an additional +1 bonus.
Not sure if that is relevant to your guide but it is interesting information.
- Gauss
Thanks. That is interesting.
He really didn't clarify what it applied to but it is pretty interesting. Its original intent was to cover Charisma based skill checks and I will rank it as such. I'm sure there are plenty of traits that can be exploited in one way or another to be much better, but that's not the intent of this guide. Its to give a general sense of what would be a good trait for most normal characters.
I appreciate you clearing that up Gauss.
Done with Purple and Blue Skills
I got Green and Orange left.
