Tips and Traits: A guide to Pathfinder Traits (Work in Progress)


Advice

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Gignere wrote:
Maestro of Society would be purple for an Archaeologist. Because his rounds of luck doesn't scale with levels so adding rounds to it would be pretty ridiculously good.

+3 rounds still won't be enough to not have to take Lingering Performance. Whether he needs this trait, the extra performance feat, or can get by just with his sheer sexiness (high charisma for more rounds) will depend. Blue for Archaeologist, perhaps, still not purple.

And I'm going to re-plug the Savant trait since it seemed to go unnoticed the last time. Say you're a bard and you take Savant (Dance). Level 2, Versatile Performance. Now you're getting +2 on Acrobatics, Fly, and Dance checks. Or pick any 1 of the versatile performance options you like better. It's not purple, but it's pretty solid.


Done with Racial Traits!

Dear Lord there where a lot. I'm doing Campaign Traits next.

Because I have yet to play many of the APs I might be asking for advice based on those that have run or played them.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Finding Haleen is the Shiznit, and awesomely flavorful!


StreamOfTheSky wrote:
Gignere wrote:


And I'm going to re-plug the Savant trait since it seemed to go unnoticed the last time. Say you're a bard and you take Savant (Dance). Level 2, Versatile Performance. Now you're getting +2 on Acrobatics, Fly, and Dance checks. Or pick any 1 of the versatile performance options you like better. It's not purple, but it's pretty solid.

Solid point. I have left it green but I have included your argument and mentioned its probably blue for Bards.


Hmmmm, my computer hates google docs. About the time you got halfway through the Racial Traits it got so that my computer had a hard time scrolling through it. Been too long since I formatted my computer.

- Gauss


StreamOfTheSky wrote:
Gignere wrote:
Maestro of Society would be purple for an Archaeologist. Because his rounds of luck doesn't scale with levels so adding rounds to it would be pretty ridiculously good.

+3 rounds still won't be enough to not have to take Lingering Performance. Whether he needs this trait, the extra performance feat, or can get by just with his sheer sexiness (high charisma for more rounds) will depend. Blue for Archaeologist, perhaps, still not purple.

And I'm going to re-plug the Savant trait since it seemed to go unnoticed the last time. Say you're a bard and you take Savant (Dance). Level 2, Versatile Performance. Now you're getting +2 on Acrobatics, Fly, and Dance checks. Or pick any 1 of the versatile performance options you like better. It's not purple, but it's pretty solid.

Yes but with lingering performance that is +9 rounds of luck. For a beginning Archaeologist this one trait can increase your round of lucks by almost 40%, and that assumes an 18 cha to start.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Finding Haleen is the Shiznit, and awesomely flavorful!

That is very nice. I wonder how it interacts with racial Favored class bonuses.


Second Tongue: I show a second 'Second Tongue' entry start (no color) above the main one.

- Gauss


Gignere wrote:
Yes but with lingering performance that is +9 rounds of luck. For a beginning Archaeologist this one trait can increase your round of lucks by almost 40%, and that assumes an 18 cha to start.

Its cheesy. But it does work out that way. I will mention it in the description.


Gauss wrote:

Second Tongue: I show a second 'Second Tongue' entry start (no color) above the main one.

- Gauss

Fixed. Thanks


Done for the night. I will be back at it tomorrow. Thanks again for all the help guys.


Dragonamedrake wrote:
Gignere wrote:
Yes but with lingering performance that is +9 rounds of luck. For a beginning Archaeologist this one trait can increase your round of lucks by almost 40%, and that assumes an 18 cha to start.
Its cheesy. But it does work out that way. I will mention it in the description.

I just read what you added to Maestro. Just wanted to clarify. It is +9 rounds of performance for any bard not just Archaeologist. What makes the trait so good for Archaeologist, is that an Archaeologist only ever has 4 + cha rounds of luck. It doesn't increase with levels like the normal bardic performance.

So for a regular bard after a few levels this trait is adding a negligible rounds of performance, however for an Archaeologist this trait will always add a significant percent of rounds of luck.

Even with 24 cha, an Archaeologist will only have 11 rounds of luck, 33 with lingering performance. So this trait will still be adding nearly 30% of extra round of luck.


Hmm. So only one or two tiefling traits are worth taking? I could see suicidal very useful for a tiefling magus with no one having more then a d8 hit die


Gignere wrote:
Yes but with lingering performance that is +9 rounds of luck. For a beginning Archaeologist this one trait can increase your round of lucks by almost 40%, and that assumes an 18 cha to start.

Yes, that's my point. You still need Lingering Performance. If taking the trait isn't saving you a feat on Lingering Performance, then in order to be worthwhile, you would need to be in a situation where you were actually running out of luck rounds without it.

But...say you have 18 charisma and lingering performance. That's 24 rounds of luck per day. For most people, that will be plenty, they don't need the extra +9. And as cha goes up, so will the 24 rounds increase. Say you had 18 cha and this trait, but not lingering performance. You have 11 rounds per day. That's not likely to be enough. You still have to take the feat, but with the feat, the number of days those +9 rounds will actually make a difference is minimal.

So I question its usefulness to the Archaeologist. It certainly could be useful... but it's not a must have.


StreamOfTheSky wrote:
Gignere wrote:
Yes but with lingering performance that is +9 rounds of luck. For a beginning Archaeologist this one trait can increase your round of lucks by almost 40%, and that assumes an 18 cha to start.

Yes, that's my point. You still need Lingering Performance. If taking the trait isn't saving you a feat on Lingering Performance, then in order to be worthwhile, you would need to be in a situation where you were actually running out of luck rounds without it.

But...say you have 18 charisma and lingering performance. That's 24 rounds of luck per day. For most people, that will be plenty, they don't need the extra +9. And as cha goes up, so will the 24 rounds increase. Say you had 18 cha and this trait, but not lingering performance. You have 11 rounds per day. That's not likely to be enough. You still have to take the feat, but with the feat, the number of days those +9 rounds will actually make a difference is minimal.

So I question its usefulness to the Archaeologist. It certainly could be useful... but it's not a must have.

Although the duration is 24 rounds that is really just 8 uses of luck. It might be enough for all your combat needs but what if there are some crucial skill rolls. This trait can allow you to be less stingy with the 1 round uses of luck.


Right, it's still useful, certainly. But you said it should be purple for them. I think Blue at best. Agree to disagree, then.


dotting


Alright, I'm up and back at it. I just had surgery and was in pain and feeling cranky yesterday. That might have bleed over in my post. I apologize if I seemed snarky. I will be starting the Campaign Traits today.

I want to again thank everyone for your thoughts and advice. Its been both helpful and helped to make this more interactive and fun.


Unless the skill is specifically sought by many, it shouldn't be blue, it should be green (neutral). Really, Sense Motive, UMD, Perception... these are Blue worthy. The others are just meh, especially since people know they can effectively get any of them through traits, it's best to highlight as useful the once that are in demand so they simply know what the title is called.

I also think you're a little liberal with some of the others. I find that I'm reading through and just start skimming blue to find the purple since they're the ones that really stand out, as I see the blue as 'standard' in choices, not exceptional in any way. 80% of Traits are default red, don't try to fill in too many categories. I would us a 4 colour system, it's easier to dump the 80% into red, then have green, blue and purple.

Just my thoughts.


Quori wrote:

Unless the skill is specifically sought by many, it shouldn't be blue, it should be green (neutral). Really, Sense Motive, UMD, Perception... these are Blue worthy. The others are just meh, especially since people know they can effectively get any of them through traits, it's best to highlight as useful the once that are in demand so they simply know what the title is called.

I also think you're a little liberal with some of the others. I find that I'm reading through and just start skimming blue to find the purple since they're the ones that really stand out, as I see the blue as 'standard' in choices, not exceptional in any way. 80% of Traits are default red, don't try to fill in too many categories. I would us a 4 colour system, it's easier to dump the 80% into red, then have green, blue and purple.

Just my thoughts.

I appreciate the thoughts. I am using the same scale used in most of the guides you will find on these boards. Its familiar to most and uniform to a degree.

Most of the skill traits have been dropped to green unless its one of the better skills in the game.

If you have any specific skills you think I have been to generous with I would love to hear your thoughts on them.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond. I want all the critiques I can get.


By the way. If anyone is trying to follow along with what I am doing. I am working on Campaign Traits which are right before the Racial Traits. I had skipped them for some reason. So if you scroll up some you will find me working on those.


I do not agree with you Quori. While yes he has some work to recolor some of them it is mostly an opinion. By dropping the color of 'must have' traits that are applicable to only a select build he may make it so that those people will skip over them. If you figure that most traits are for specific builds anyhow then most of the traits fall into this.

Take +1 Will saves for example. The people this will appeal to are those with a weak Will save.

Skill traits primarily appeal to people that do not have that skill.

However, I do agree that awesome but limited clientele traits should not usually be purple. But blue imo is just fine for those traits.

- Gauss


Researching the Blot - wow this trait is fail lol.


Gnoll Killer is the bomb for Rangers. Take a look at my description.


Sword Scion... the new Heirloom Weapon.


Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne, Second Darkness, Legacy of Fire, Council of Thieves, Kingmaker, and Serpents Skull all done.

Carrion Crown, Jade Regent, and Skull & Shackles left to do.


Opportunistic Gambler would apply to Rage, which has all of its bonuses as morale.

That said, I like to rape hop/cycle in and out each round, so adding an uncertain 1d4 rounds to the duration would actually be a nerf to those sorts of barbarian tactics. But some people might like it. Perhaps someone only dipping Barb looking to spread those rounds out more.

Finding Haleen: By the RAW, it sounds to me like the trait gives you +1 hp and +1 skill point ON TOP OF the actual favored class bonus. Which is crazy strong if true.

Gnoll Killer: Yes, with Instant Enemy it's an extra +2. You don't start w/ 3rd level spells, and they don't grow on trees. I don't know if gnolls are super-common and often have class levels in that AP, but if it's anything like a normal game... you're throwing away your top FE bonus on an enemy you'll seldom encounter. Its still pretty nice end-game, but I don't think it's purple, it has a pretty big cost.

Bastard: Why is this purple? It's a +1 will save trait with a negative tacked on. When traits that just give you +1 will exist aplenty. Why would you take this?

Liberty's Edge

I absolutely agree about Sacred Touch! It seemed so useful, but I have never used it. I wish I had taken something else.


Dragonamedrake wrote:
Researching the Blot - wow this trait is fail lol.

This actually does something. It allows you to identify without casting detect magic first.

This could be useful for an alchemist who doesn't want to buy a wand of Identify etc.

All that said It's just really bad instead of actively detrimental.


StreamOfTheSky wrote:

Opportunistic Gambler would apply to Rage, which has all of its bonuses as morale.

That said, I like to rape hop/cycle in and out each round, so adding an uncertain 1d4 rounds to the duration would actually be a nerf to those sorts of barbarian tactics. But some people might like it. Perhaps someone only dipping Barb looking to spread those rounds out more.

Finding Haleen: By the RAW, it sounds to me like the trait gives you +1 hp and +1 skill point ON TOP OF the actual favored class bonus. Which is crazy strong if true.

Gnoll Killer: Yes, with Instant Enemy it's an extra +2. You don't start w/ 3rd level spells, and they don't grow on trees. I don't know if gnolls are super-common and often have class levels in that AP, but if it's anything like a normal game... you're throwing away your top FE bonus on an enemy you'll seldom encounter. Its still pretty nice end-game, but I don't think it's purple, it has a pretty big cost.

Bastard: Why is this purple? It's a +1 will save trait with a negative tacked on. When traits that just give you +1 will exist aplenty. Why would you take this?

Opportunistic Gambler - I forgot about Rage being a Moral bonus. That at least bumps it up to orange. I still find it lacking.

Finding Haleen - Yes the wording is confusing. Either you get both on top of the favored bonus or you get a double bonus. Either way its friggin amazing.

Bastard - Its still a +1 to a static save. And the negative can be offset by becoming nobility (In an AP named KINGMAKER), not to mention the negative applies to nobility in an AP where you are adventuring in the wilderness... somehow I dont see it being an issue often. Third its a small negative even if it does happen. Still well worth Purple, expecially when you consider you have noble blood (Even if a bastard) to lay claim to. I think its win win.

Gnoll Killer -

1. From what I gather the AP has alot of Gnolls in it.
2. You only have the first and second Favored enemy before 3rd level spells, so at most your giving up a +2 bonus to whatever you would have picked first.
3. Its 42,000 gp for a Unlimited Command word use of Instant Enemy. Sure you have to get it approved by the GM, and its expensive, but that makes every enemy your favorite enemy lol.

Over all I still find it to be a very strong Trait for rangers.


Pirate Rob wrote:
Dragonamedrake wrote:
Researching the Blot - wow this trait is fail lol.

This actually does something. It allows you to identify without casting detect magic first.

This could be useful for an alchemist who doesn't want to buy a wand of Identify etc.

All that said It's just really bad instead of actively detrimental.

Seriously. I think you have the rules for identifying magic items confused.

1. Detect magic is an unlimited 0 level cantrip. Why wouldn't you want to cast it before trying to determine what a magic item is.

2. Identify just gives you a +10 bonus on the spell craft role. If an alchemist doesn't want to memorize a 1st level spell to identify something then so be it. There are a few very good traits that give you detect magic as a spell-like ability.

3. It makes it HARDER to identify magic items. It causes the DC to go up by 5.

I can see this as anything other then a mistake. Detect magic is easy to get even if you don't get it on your spell list. Heck a continuous item of detect magic would only be 2k gold.


Dragonamedrake wrote:
StreamOfTheSky wrote:

Opportunistic Gambler would apply to Rage, which has all of its bonuses as morale.

That said, I like to rape hop/cycle in and out each round, so adding an uncertain 1d4 rounds to the duration would actually be a nerf to those sorts of barbarian tactics. But some people might like it. Perhaps someone only dipping Barb looking to spread those rounds out more.

Finding Haleen: By the RAW, it sounds to me like the trait gives you +1 hp and +1 skill point ON TOP OF the actual favored class bonus. Which is crazy strong if true.

Gnoll Killer: Yes, with Instant Enemy it's an extra +2. You don't start w/ 3rd level spells, and they don't grow on trees. I don't know if gnolls are super-common and often have class levels in that AP, but if it's anything like a normal game... you're throwing away your top FE bonus on an enemy you'll seldom encounter. Its still pretty nice end-game, but I don't think it's purple, it has a pretty big cost.

Bastard: Why is this purple? It's a +1 will save trait with a negative tacked on. When traits that just give you +1 will exist aplenty. Why would you take this?

Opportunistic Gambler - I forgot about Rage being a Moral bonus. That at least bumps it up to orange. I still find it lacking.

Finding Haleen - Yes the wording is confusing. Either you get both on top of the favored bonus or you get a double bonus. Either way its friggin amazing.

Bastard - Its still a +1 to a static save. And the negative can be offset by becoming nobility (In an AP named KINGMAKER), not to mention the negative applies to nobility in an AP where you are adventuring in the wilderness... somehow I dont see it being an issue often. Third its a small negative even if it does happen. Still well worth Purple, expecially when you consider you have noble blood (Even if a bastard) to lay claim to. I think its win win.

Gnoll Killer -

1. From what I gather the AP has alot of Gnolls in it.
2. You only have the first and second Favored enemy before 3rd level...

The Opportunistic Gambler can also be used with Eldritch Heritage Orc + Quicken SLA to build the highest DPR melee builds. That combo is basically broken. I think anyone building the highest DPR melee build will have to take opportunistic gambler. Not sure if it is purple due to a broken combination but it is still damn good. I almost can't think of any melee build that I wouldn't want Opportunistic Gambler.


Gignere wrote:
The Opportunistic Gambler can also be used with Eldritch Heritage Orc + Quicken SLA to build the highest DPR melee builds. That combo is basically broken. I think anyone building the highest DPR melee build will have to take opportunistic gambler. Not sure if it is purple due to a broken combination but it is still damn good. I almost can't think of any melee build that I wouldn't want Opportunistic Gambler.

Well that's a game changer. Im not sure where to rank it now.


So I have never played Jade Regent. How do these NPC's come into play?

Do they stick with you the whole AP?
Do they fight?

I could use some advice on these.


Also I meant Optimistic Gambler in the posts above.


If Researching the Blot didn't explicitly mention "instead of spellcraft" I'd think that it was early enough into PF that whoever wrote it didn't realize the changes done to item IDing. Because it does, I can't understand it either.


Dragonamedrake wrote:

So I have never played Jade Regent. How do these NPC's come into play?

Do they stick with you the whole AP?
Do they fight?

I could use some advice on these.

Anyone have any experience with Jade Regent? I have it all written out but I have yet to give them rankings due to the NPC mechanic I am unfamiliar with.


Im running JR right now, the traits are rather handy because besides the benefit they also gain a +4 affinity with the npc related to their trait. higher affinity means extra xp and and neat ability besides...


also wanted to say love the guide so far, but i think shadow child needs a little bit better rating if only because it makes rogues able to back stab people getting concealment from dim lighting that they otherwise couldn't.


Dragonamedrake wrote:
Why cant there be more traits like the Goblin ones. Useful, full of flavor, and fun.

thats because the goblins are the best!

No seriously, goblins rock. the flavour on the goblin only traits and feats is amazing. Gotta love things like Balloon headed, roll with it, letter fury, and vandal.

Side question, im unsure of what SLA is? looking through all spells with S...L...A... is revealing nothing and is quite tedious. My ears always perk up when I hear about broken aspects, as its always fun trying to find different things that work well together.


Spell Like Ability


Biblical_Payload wrote:
also wanted to say love the guide so far, but i think shadow child needs a little bit better rating if only because it makes rogues able to back stab people getting concealment from dim lighting that they otherwise couldn't.

RAW I think it still doesn't allow Sneak Attacks


I agree with Biblical_Payload regarding Shadow Child. It would be a very good trait for a rogue operating at the fringe of the party's light source (assuming the rogue does not have darkvision).

Regarding Noble Born I would color the noble family names appropriately.

- Gauss


Rogues should just choose races that have darkvision anyway. Nothing says stealthy like needing to carry a light source with you!

And Paizo should've allowed sneak attacks in non-total concealment instead of making it a feat tax. :(


Dragonamedrake, without the 20% concealment penalty there would be no problem with sneak attacks. No concealment, no problem. The RAW specifically calls out concealment.

StreamOfTheSky: that would limit Rogues to Dwarves and Half-Orcs. Personally, I would like to play a Rogue that is not limited to one of those two races.

As for the non-total concealment. I agree, but thems the rules.

- Gauss


Boarded in Mediogalti would make sense if you wanted poison use with less risk (and do not have poison immunity or poison use without risk).
I would recommend the Blue Whinnis or Giant Wasp poison (I cannot find the Spider Vine Poison).

- Gauss


Gauss wrote:
StreamOfTheSky: that would limit Rogues to Dwarves and Half-Orcs. Personally, I would like to play a Rogue that is not limited to one of those two races.

If you play with core only races, yeah. Fetchling, Goblin, Tiefling, Strix, Hobgoblin, Ratfolk, etc... all make good rogue races.


StreamOfTheSky, agreed.

Liberty's Edge

I just wanted to say that I enjoyed the guide, well done!


Alright Shadow Child upgraded to Green.

Boarded in Mediogalti - the point is... did you like my link lol.

@Biblical_Payload and Gonn - Thanks. I am enjoying writing it.

Alright done with the Campaign Traits. Equipment Trait Next.

Im done for the night though. Be back at it tomorrow.

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