Melees do not so bad really.
Get close, they either have to cast defensively or provoke an attack of oportunity. Then smack them in the face, might cause them to mess up the spell.
Step Up feat is a great way to avoid the "5ft step away from him and cast" tactic.
Disruptive feat is a nice one for fighters to increase the DC the caster has to meet.
Grappling works nice against them too since most casters have horrible CMD/CMB. Then next round you Pin them down, which basicly makes it impossible for them to cast most spells.
Alchemist: Ready an action to throw a Tanglefoot Bomb at the full caster when he starts casting a spell. Smoke Bombs can work too if the caster wants to use a spell that requires line of sight.
You're right, I completely forgot the follow up feats for Step Up.
Also you might want to get Improved Trip. So if the caster has figured out that 5ft step doesn't work, he might try to eat the AoO and use a move action to get away from you. Then trip him as your AoO. (however does work without Imp Trip too, since the AoO you provoke in return most likely is not very dangerous) Oh and you should have Combat Reflexes of course, otherwise he'll just cast his spell from Prone then without getting interrupted. :) Maybe get that before Imp. Trip.
Also readying an action is also a great way incase the caster makes his Concentration check. Ready an action to attack when he casts a spell. Works also pretty well with archery.
Yes casters eventually learn to fly. But then have your wizard cast it on you, get a magic item or a potion and just fly after him.
if the caster is a wizard, alchemist or magus.
build a UC ninja, use stealth plus vanishing trick to steal his bag of spellbooks/scrolls with sleight of hand and get away with a scroll of teleport. use a series of hired thugs to make him dispose of his spells. next day, use vanishing trick and sneak attack him into oblivion.
if the caster is a witch.
build an optimized archery ranger with favored enemy (Arcanists). shoot the witches familiar to cut off her spell access. used hired thugs to make her waste her spells, wait a day and stay a minimum of 100 feet from her. so that you are out of her slumber range. next day, shoot the crap out of her.
if the caster is a druid
build a lore warden with the grapple feats, grapple him, strap a metal shield to his arm against his will. now that he violated his oath, he can't cast spells or wildshape. use a swarm of hired thugs to take him out.
if the caster is a divine caster with an honor code.
build your character around milking advantages from the characters honor code to use against them. for example, a paladin must act with honor, targetting, women, children, and the terminally ill is dishonorable. so roll up a little girl with chronic tuberculosis. the paladin isn't allowed to attack you because doing so would count triple the dishonor. a woman, a child, and a terminally ill individual. shoot him nonstop with a pistol. carry a number of pistol rounds equal to his HP.
Grapple. Not even a silenced stilled spell without material components is going to see the light of day then.
A Tetori should do the trick. Grapple and crush.
I dunno if that works.
a) Scout archetype specifically requires the attack action, using a wand is something else.
b) I'm not sure the sneak attack actually transfers into the damage on the next turns as well, and not in the dot, so not sure it really applies to the concentration check.
Quatar is correct about b), Sneak Attack only applies on the initial attack, subsequent rounds of an Acid Arrow's duration don't apply Sneak Attack bonus damage. EDIT: Sneak Attack is not continuous damage, it is instantaneous/ only on the attack itself. Acid is the only ongoing damage source from Acid Arrow. Strictly speaking, the initial damage of the spell isn't continuous damage at all, continuous damage is only inflicted on subsequent rounds.
So it comes back to Readied Attacks... Which can have big enough damage (and thus DCs) whether you are a Rogue with SA or a Fighter/Barbarian type. This is partly why I think it's important to look at single attack damage output (Ready Action-able) and not just Full Attack DPR. Archers have some more flexibility here in that they don't care as much about positioning as melee types do. A good option for Meleers is taking Sargava Companion's Rhino Charge Feat, which allows Readying Partial Charge Actions: Pre-Req is Imp Bull-Rush.
Improved Initiative/ other Init boosts are good if you want to play this game against Casters.
(and given DEX boosts Init, another reason why Ranged is great for Readying vs. Casters)
A Tetori should do the trick. Grapple and crush.
A tetori monk carrying a rock with the silence spell on it would be even better.
I've never seen Sneak Attack damage added to ongoing damage.
The Acid Arrow is valid though.
Grappling is really the best way to shut down a full caster.
The insane grappling feats are almost overkill on casters.
Bleed effects work alright as well on the Wizards, Witches and Sorcerers; even with the d6 hit dice they have crappy durability.
A Tetori should do the trick. Grapple and crush.A tetori monk carrying a rock with the silence spell on it would be even better.
Tetori for the win!
2)"If you are taking continuous damage, such as from an acid arrow or by standing in a lake of lava, half the damage is considered to take place while you are casting a spell. You must make a concentration check with a DC equal to 10 + 1/2 the damage that the continuous source last dealt + the level of the spell you're casting. If the last damage dealt was the last damage that the effect could deal, then the damage is over and does not distract you."
Ah yes, I see. Yes, guess you can interpret it like that.
However you could also see the "continous source" being the 2d4 of the acid arrow, since the 7d6 of the sneak attack are not continous.I'm not saying that is how it is, but I can see merit for both interpretations.
However my point a) still stands, I don't think it applies to the scout archetype.
Yes Acid Arrow needs a touch attack, but the action you take is the "Activate Magic Item" action not the "Attack" action. An Arcane Trickster would maybe use the "Cast a Spell" action if he knows the spell.
Both are standard actions, that's correct, but they're different standard actions.
However if you're a ninja take the Vanishing Trick, go invisible and use it from there, that should give you sneak attack. Don't think you need the Scout archetype then.
just bring in your pet ancient dragon. point at caster and say lunch.
done
Not really, and it gets harder at higher levels.
Squishes such as sorcerers or wizards normally have "keep away" spells.
Full casters with medium BAB such as clerics and druids might kick your butt in combat when you do finally get to them or at least give you a difficult fight.
It can be done however, but not with certain reliability. How the caster was made will determine what does and does not work.
If he gets hit while moving away it does not force a concentration check. If he gets hit while casting then it does force on.
if the caster is a wizard, alchemist or magus.
build a UC ninja, use stealth plus vanishing trick to steal his bag of spellbooks/scrolls with sleight of hand and get away with a scroll of teleport. use a series of hired thugs to make him dispose of his spells. next day, use vanishing trick and sneak attack him into oblivion.
/sigh
To bad I keep my spellbook in a pocket dimension and keep my own teleport and vanishing trick memorized.
As a wizard, I won't stick around for an ambush any longer than you will. I'll simply move to a different continent or plane of existance and recoup at my leisure.
P.S. The character and the spell selections were already built. The solutions were in place BEFORE your problem was presented.
if the caster is a wizard, alchemist or magus.
build a UC ninja, use stealth plus vanishing trick to steal his bag of spellbooks/scrolls with sleight of hand and get away with a scroll of teleport. use a series of hired thugs to make him dispose of his spells. next day, use vanishing trick and sneak attack him into oblivion.
if the caster is a witch.
build an optimized archery ranger with favored enemy (Arcanists). shoot the witches familiar to cut off her spell access. used hired thugs to make her waste her spells, wait a day and stay a minimum of 100 feet from her. so that you are out of her slumber range. next day, shoot the crap out of her.
if the caster is a druid
build a lore warden with the grapple feats, grapple him, strap a metal shield to his arm against his will. now that he violated his oath, he can't cast spells or wildshape. use a swarm of hired thugs to take him out.
if the caster is a divine caster with an honor code.
build your character around milking advantages from the characters honor code to use against them. for example, a paladin must act with honor, targetting, women, children, and the terminally ill is dishonorable. so roll up a little girl with chronic tuberculosis. the paladin isn't allowed to attack you because doing so would count triple the dishonor. a woman, a child, and a terminally ill individual. shoot him nonstop with a pistol. carry a number of pistol rounds equal to his HP.
Sleight of Hand does not allow you to see inside the backpack or where ever the spell book is. If I have 5 books you have not way to know which one is the spell book.
As to your other ideas they might not work either especially if the party is around.
Grapple. Not even a silenced stilled spell without material components is going to see the light of day then.
It depends on the grappler. Dimension Door only uses verbal components.
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Ninja's not a bad way to go after spellcasters. All those poisons that go straight for Con or Str or Wis damage...
You can even put them in a bomb if the target is notoriously hard to stab.
Regarding Vanishing Trick the spell from 3.5, I've never allowed it. Too annoying on either side of the table.
There still the need to succed in a concentration check.Grapple. Not even a silenced stilled spell without material components is going to see the light of day then.It depends on the grappler. Dimension Door only uses verbal components.
That is why I said it depends on he grappler. His CMB is a part of the concentration check. Combat Casting is very important before the freedom of movement spell or ring comes into play.
There still the need to succeed in a concentration check.Grapple. Not even a silenced stilled spell without material components is going to see the light of day then.It depends on the grappler. Dimension Door only uses verbal components.
A concentration check which, for all intents and purposes will be impossible to make.
A concentration check which, for all intents and purposes will be impossible to make.There still the need to succeed in a concentration check.Grapple. Not even a silenced stilled spell without material components is going to see the light of day then.It depends on the grappler. Dimension Door only uses verbal components.
Contingency is an awesome spell, one best used for escaping an otherwise untenable situation.
As to your other ideas they might not work either especially if the party is around.
As a conjurer, I will nearly always have a small cloud of Elder Negative Energy Elementals.
Ninja's not a bad way to go after spellcasters. All those poisons that go straight for Con or Str or Wis damage...
You can even put them in a bomb if the target is notoriously hard to stab.
Neither poisons nor sneak attack will work on me.
As a conjurer, I will nearly always have a small cloud of Elder Negative Energy Elementals.
As to your other ideas they might not work either especially if the party is around.
Is that a RAW monster?
A concentration check which, for all intents and purposes will be impossible to make.There still the need to succeed in a concentration check.Grapple. Not even a silenced stilled spell without material components is going to see the light of day then.It depends on the grappler. Dimension Door only uses verbal components.
...depending on the grappler
concentration check=10 + grappler's CMB + spell level
CR 10 monster: Bebelith CMB+23 <---highest CMB from the bestiary for CR 10 monster.
DD=37 DC for concentration
10th level caster
10 caster level+24 stat or +7 mod+combat concentration(+4)=21
That means the caster can get away with a 16, not exactly good odds, but far from impossible.
a lot of anti caster tactics mentioned in this thread don't really work against an extremely paranoid caster (Whom is most likely a PC run by an experienced player or minmaxed main boss) but they should generally work against Generic Magic item Dealer #2345 or the player of a less experienced caster PC.
As I have played a few martial / rogue types that had this problem, here's my two coppers...
1) The whole get in and get close is good... but... If you are getting in and getting close, then.... Steal. The. Spell. Component. Pouch!!
A large portion of spells (granted not all) require material components, all of which are kept in the spell component pouch and since casters need to have that pouch easily available, it has to be out in the open on their person (i.e. not in a bag of holding / handy haversack / etc). Grab it, toss it in the fire and viola... a large chuck of the spells they are likely to have are in accessible.
2) Keep them from talking. Depending on the GM, your options in this may be limited but here's what has worked for me. Using the called shot rules from UC to the head, Tanglefoot bags or improvised weapon 'garrotes' made of cloth to the moth. Thunderstones are also good for low level casters or situations where the caster is already penalized on his Fort save, but then there is just the 20% miss chance for being deaf. If you can afford it and catch the mage off-guard, sovereign glue in a crystal vial, place in mouth and punch it shut.
3) Get the better initiative and hold your action to attack as they are casting. The Concentration check DCs are a lot higher for damage than they are for just being threatened.
Hope that helps.
