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So this last game session in my group, a player in our group had been doing critical hits different than everyone else, and we only just now found out how he was calculating it. Below is part of the rules from the PRD site.
Critical Hits: When you make an attack roll and get a natural 20 (the d20 shows 20), you hit regardless of your target's Armor Class, and you have scored a “threat,” meaning the hit might be a critical hit (or “crit”). To find out if it's a critical hit, you immediately make an attempt to “confirm” the critical hit—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made. If the confirmation roll also results in a hit against the target's AC, your original hit is a critical hit. (The critical roll just needs to hit to give you a crit, it doesn't need to come up 20 again.) If the confirmation roll is a miss, then your hit is just a regular hit.
A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together. Unless otherwise specified, the threat range for a critical hit on an attack roll is 20, and the multiplier is ×2.
Does that mean, that when I roll damage for a critical hit with my longsword, with a +3 strength modifier, I roll 1d8 twice and add the +3 from strength to both die rolls, or only add it once after both die results have been totalled? The wording is a little confusing and can go both ways. We've traditionally gone with the D&D 3.5 way since that's what we're used to, though after further review, it seems it could be interpreted either way. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Should also note, that the core rulebook we have states the rule above verbatim. Thanks in advance.
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That makes critical hits a little ovepowered then. Could be instant character death at low levels. Guess we all read the 3.5 version of it wrong. We thought it was roll the damage dice a number of times equal to the critical hit multiplier, then add in all bonuses from Strength and other sources onto the die roll total.
Agent, at low levels you don't need a critical hit to die. Someone hitting you with a two-handed weapon can drop you pretty easily, more so if they rage/Power Attack/get buffed. Low levels remain a game of Russian Roulette IMO, but that's fine; at higher levels I'd take all the crits I can get!
Additional damage dice (such as from sneak attack) are only applied once to a critical hit. That may be what you remember from the 3.5 rule, although that is also still the same in Pathfinder.
I vaguely remember in 3x that critting became a complex thing, where basically you could multiply die roles, but exclude bonuses. I think paizo worked it down to a more common sense version, just double normal calculated damage.
I believe that a sneak attack cannot crit, being a specialized form of attack (intentionally critting) and getting that multiplied would make for insane first round damages.
Bane adds dice, which are not multiplied on a critical hit (the +2 from the additional enhancement bonus is multiplied, though).
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Bonus dice are never multiplied on a critical hit. Only static bonuses are multiplied.
That makes critical hits a little ovepowered then. Could be instant character death at low levels. Guess we all read the 3.5 version of it wrong. We thought it was roll the damage dice a number of times equal to the critical hit multiplier, then add in all bonuses from Strength and other sources onto the die roll total.
That's the idea behind "critcal hits", that you have swung your "weapon" and connected so well, that your going to deal major damage to the enemy. But remember this works both ways, your crits affect the enemy, just as deadly as their crits affect your pc's.
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I vaguely remember in 3x that critting became a complex thing, where basically you could multiply die roles, but exclude bonuses. I think paizo worked it down to a more common sense version, just double normal calculated damage.
I believe that a sneak attack cannot crit, being a specialized form of attack (intentionally critting) and getting that multiplied would make for insane first round damages.
Actually, I'm pretty sure nothing about crits has changed between 3.5 and PF, definitely not the basic crit rules anyway.
Sneak attacks can crit, but the extra sneak attack damage isn't multiplied. As Spes Magna Mark mentions, extra dice (no matter the source) are not multiplied. This applies to sneak attack dice, bane dice, flaming, shocking, anything that adds extra dice.
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Hey Agent, Can't believe I found this post! Ha ha! Hello everyone else, I was the one he was talking about when he mentioned the player doing it differently than everyone else. I had made a Kensai that used a falcata and he really cleaned house with it. 1 in 5 hits was a crit and I could spend 2 points of my arcane pool to increase the multiplier from X3 to X4. Falcatas do 1D8 19-20 X3 (I had improved crit). Just slap on bulls str and have yourself a good time!
Sounds like a good time indeed.
well in the beginning of 3.0 the crit must confirmed once per extra multiplier
19-20*2
20´, then confirm,
20*3: 20´then confirm *2, then confirm again *3
the str bonus and magic bonus still multiply, i mean a +3 clb (+3str) (20*3)
means you roll 3d8+18 to the damage!!
although with the called shot option, this will be a nice shot at lvl 1
if there was bane or sneak attack, it only add the dices and dont multiply those extra dices
Multiplying Damage: Sometimes you multiply damage by some factor, such as on a critical hit. Roll the damage (with all modifiers) multiple times and total the results.
http://paizo.com/prd/combat.html
under "Damage"
I imagine they have figured that out, in these intervening ten months : )
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I always see "Rulebooks" as guides only.
The PFCRB is unclear on how to calculate damage on crits. Although the powergame
stance seems to hold sway here I'd go with multiplying damage dice and add the bonuses, even if a rules reprint said otherwise and I'm sure other Refs would go with multiplying the dice and the bonuses regardless.
Have to say I like the idea of having a confirm roll per multiplier.
I always see "Rulebooks" as guides only.
The PFCRB is unclear on how to calculate damage on crits. Although the powergame
stance seems to hold sway here I'd go with multiplying damage dice and add the bonuses, even if a rules reprint said otherwise and I'm sure other Refs would go with multiplying the dice and the bonuses regardless.
Have to say I like the idea of having a confirm roll per multiplier.
6 years? Why do you feel the need to enter into a discussion that is 6 years old?
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Newbie, posting in every thread that came up in a search.
I always see "Rulebooks" as guides only.
The PFCRB is unclear on how to calculate damage on crits. Although the powergame
stance seems to hold sway here I'd go with multiplying damage dice and add the bonuses, even if a rules reprint said otherwise and I'm sure other Refs would go with multiplying the dice and the bonuses regardless.
Have to say I like the idea of having a confirm roll per multiplier.
Okay, I'll bite, the CRB says this on critical hit damage:
"A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together. Unless otherwise specified, the threat range for a critical hit on an attack roll is 20, and the multiplier is ×2.
Exception: Precision damage (such as from a rogue's sneak attack class feature) and additional damage dice from special weapon abilities (such as flaming) are not multiplied when you score a critical hit."
How do you read this as unclear? Sneak attack and precision damage are exceptions in not being multiplied, so what is multiplied? Also the first sentence tells you to multiply your usual bonuses. This is not a "power gamer" interpration, it is the rule book meaning.
P.S. many folks find "power gamer" to be an insulting term, I'd be mindful of that before slinging it at roughly 98% of this forum.
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Thanks for advice, have to say I didn't think that would insult anyone as the use of the phrase "newbie" didn't insult me. But NP sorry for that point taken.
A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together.
The phrase above says to me you roll the extra dice and then add your bonuses. I don't read that your bonuses are multiplied.
But that's the beauty of RPGs, is the variant ways they can be played.
With the idea that bonuses are not multiplied compare the feats vital strike, improved critical, and critical focus.
Considering only the case of X2 critical damage weapons (most of them), vital strike is an automatic critical. Several levels after vital strike is available we get two other feats that give increased chances for criticals, but in no way make them close to automatic.
If numeric bonuses are not multiplied these three feats represent awful game design, which has interestingly not been questioned or corrected, well in the history of the game. Just food for thought.
For the record, I'm not crazy about newbie either.
A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together.The phrase above says to me you roll the extra dice and then add your bonuses. I don't read that your bonuses are multiplied.
I don't think typical assumptions of the English language really support rolling multiple times and then adding the bonuses at the end. The "with all your usual bonuses" could be written "with all your usual bonuses each time" for even more clarity, but the assumption here is doing so is unnecessary to carry the meaning that you roll your damage with all your usual bonuses... multiple times... then add them up.