Might I suggest the humble Bard? There is almost nothing a half-decent Bard can't help with.
Uh...yea...bard is what you're looking for.
You do not need to be musical. One of the goals of the PF bard was to specifically divorce the class from the silly froofy bard image.
Sandman bard will do you well, as well as the archaeologist.
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Might I suggest the humble Bard? There is almost nothing a half-decent Bard can't help with.
Indeed! And the larger the party the more their buffs help. I highly reccomend it, and it's a lot of fun, too.
I'm persoanlly a big fan of the Bard-as-storyteller (using Perform-Oratory). A charming wanderer with a million tales of his previous adventures, and a skilled warrior with a trick for every occasion.
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Based on the party in a standard group I would recommend a melee class like fighter, barb or monk. However with the strong social aspect you may be better off with the magic touched rogue. Get yourself a high Charisma and take one level in Sorcerer, you'll have access to a ton of spells that are incredibly useful to a rogue.
Alternatively you could play a monk who is more of a scholar/meditative. This would allow you do get on the front lines and defend all those casters but your skills could be in areas less likely to be covered by others and you can look up famous philosophers and quote them to sound more profound ^^
I join the bard recommending group :-)
Sandman or archaeologist are probably the best archetypes for you.
You'll be the best at being able to help in every single situation.
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I think you should go with bard or monk.
I wouldn't worry about being a 2nd rate fighter vs. the cavalier. I say conspire with him. You both will have awesome land speeds so build like a maneuverable tag-team. Let him charge (which he will be awesome at) then you follow up and use acrobatics/mobility to avoid Attacks of opportunity as you get into flank position. Then he shares his teamwork feats (preferably one that works off flanking) and you go to town on that poor fool!
As for the bard, cheapy is right. The monk will help in combat, but the bard will help with just about anything.
Why not a melee oriented Druid with some stealth mixed in?
I would recommend treantmonks guide to druids. Check out the wildshape section
I would play a monk, bard or rogue in your shoes.
Bard - a bard archer is pretty good, as the bard isn't so hot at combat but can do very well buffing and peppering the enemy. I go for a balance of charisma, intelligence and dexterity to make the concept work. As for casting, remember the bard gets access to some spells that the other arcane casters do not get - like cure light wounds (I note your party has no healer yet). Whatever spell selection you choose are options your wizard can neglect and concentrate in other areas.
Monk - master of many styles is good, as is maneuver master and sohei. If you go for maneuvers, I find using Agile Maneuvers and cutting strength for dexterity gets you a usable set abilities. If you can aim at getting Combat Patrol with Improved Trip and Improved Disarm you can tie down large areas without needing to land blows and do damage.
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If I play a Bard, how would you do the stat distribution, what race, feats, etc.? What would you do for fighting? My main concern with a bard was that we already have two arcane casters. Is the spell list distinct enough to make him worthwhile.
Absolutely. Bards have the best buff spells in the game, especially when combined with Bardic Performance.
And I'd go Archer Bard. Focused on Dex with a side order of Charisma and Str and decent Con and Int (Wis dumping is doable if needed). You go Human and grab Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot, followed by Rapid Shot ant 3, Arcane strike at 5, Deadly Aim at 7, Manyshot at 9 and so on. You're a pretty damn good archer in addition to being a soid utility and buff spellcaster.
My main concern is that while I don't need to be uber-optimized, I do enjoy being able to the best at the table in at least one area. With a bard I guess that could be social skills, but otherwise not much. I'm worried a monk will always look like a 2nd rate fighter compared to the cavalier and maybe the summoner's eidolon.
You are the god of party enhancement. At 7th level, with a single round, you give the entire party (yourself included) +4 to hit and damage for the entire combat, and +2 to just about everything else. When the other party members turn to you and say "So, how much of a bonus do you give everyone right now?" you'll definitely feel like you're the best at something.
How do you build a melee oriented druid? Is it effective to mix druid and monk levels?
Very doable focusing on wild shape (Dire Tiger pouncing doom!), as someone mentions, look at Treantmonk's guide.
Treantmonk's Guide to Druids
Part 1: The Wild Mystic
Part 2: The Spirit of the Beast
Part 3: Druid Spell Examined
He also has several more guides, found here.
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He also has several more guides, found here.
Including a lovely Bard guide, if you choose to go that way.
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Anyone have any experience trying to create a scout character that can incapacitate an enemy quickly, that is effective at mid-levels? I have seen the sap master stuff, but I'm leery whether it is too feat-intensive and effective in actual play.
Honestly by mid levels? You need spells to incapacitate just about anyone quickly and quietly. A CR 8 averages 100 HP, there just aren't many ways to reliably do that in a round as an 8th level character, and those there are require a Full Attack and usually some noise.
So take something with spells that do take out enemies in a round and a good Stealth score.
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Anyone have any experience trying to create a scout character that can incapacitate an enemy quickly, that is effective at mid-levels? I have seen the sap master stuff, but I'm leery whether it is too feat-intensive and effective in actual play.
I've also though about some combination of knifemaster, betrayer feat and underhanded, but I'm also not sure whether I will have enough feats, or even then whether I will be doing enough damage when it does work to be worthwhile.
i can tell you that sap master is one of the most ridiculous characters i have ever played. it is very awesome for a pfs game because they tend to be very light on undead, constructs and oozes. if you want to be able to knock someone out in one hit, i think thats the best you will get. make sure you go ninja not normal rogue.
but if you want to play a caster that can save or die and still be stealthy, play a def oricle with darkness, they always cast as though silent spell is active. which when combined with sleep or any number of other spells you will be very powerful.
bards cannot have silent spell metamagic
unless i am crazy
Why not? Nothing in the rules says they can't.bards cannot have silent spell metamagic
unless i am crazy
Well, except for the rules.
Silent Spell (Metamagic)
You can cast your spells without making any sound.
Benefit: A silent spell can be cast with no verbal components. Spells without verbal components are not affected.
Level Increase: +1 (a silent spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.)
Special: Bard spells cannot be enhanced by this feat.
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Well, except for the rules.
Silent Spell (Metamagic)
You can cast your spells without making any sound.
Benefit: A silent spell can be cast with no verbal components. Spells without verbal components are not affected.
Level Increase: +1 (a silent spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.)
Special: Bard spells cannot be enhanced by this feat.
Ah! My bad, looked everywhere but at the actual Feat. Silly me.
I've seen it trip up some of the freelancers, so no worries!
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Did you do anything special to get them flat-footed when not in the surprise round? What was your character build?
it was ninja 10/fighter 2 (no archetype)
ninja 1-2 /fighter 2-4 /rogue 5-12
i play in an area where we can easily get 12+ PFS games a month, so i tend to go through many characters quickly.
basically its just twf feat chain, with sap master + pressure points and invisibility. you go invisible, then charge sneak attack, then for each sneak attack you hit for, you deal that many points of damage to their dexterity.
by lets say... 7th level you should be hitting for 6d6+6 points to dex. most npcs have low dex, so it you hit a full plat fighter type you should be able to knock them out of the fight in 2 hits. then add poison on top of that for aditional dex damage if you choose to use them. on a full round, which requires a set up for it, you will ko just about everything with a dex or 12 or less. that means a red dragon hit by your sneak attacks, from flanking, will get dropped in one hit.
oh and since this is a subdual damage based build it wont work on a few types of creatures, BUT if you land the sneak attacks you still deal the dex damage. so you can still full attack a troll and every hit to his body would deal dex damage. undead, constructs, and oozes are immune so you would need to deal lethal damage with a different weapon.
How bout fighter or ranger afew levels, rogue afew levels into red mantis assassin... It beats ass, is very sneaky and has spells... I would commend a variant teifling with dex/cha bonus and go dex route, with agile sawtooth sabers, weapon finesse, pirahna strike etc. etc.
Seems like a very cool build to me and now that im thinking about it i might just build my nxt toon like this as well lol... Gl happy hunting.. oh stat wise id prob go
str 10
dex 16+2
con 14
int 10
wis 10
cha 14+2
I'm not sure how much a difference it makes to this build, but you can't have levels in both Rogue and Ninja, nor Cavalier and Samurai, or fighter and Gunslinger. They are alternate classes of each other.