What classes do you think are the simplest mechanically to play? To book-keep/ advance?
I have a player who greatly enjoys roleplaying, but has little interest in (almost an aversion to) the mechanics of the game. We are trying to find the right character for the player.
I'm more than willing to think outside the box, too.
My initial thoughts:
Sorcerer – Once you pick your spells, there is little else to do besides use them. No deciding which spells to prepare, and limited access to bonus feats.
Wilder – Like a sorcerer, with even fewer "spells".
An NPC class, like Aristocrat or Expert, but they are substantially weaker than PC classes, so perhaps with a higher ability score point buy, or apply a template, or access to "Horrifically Overpowered Feats".
A monster – but what? Something with simple, use at will abilities, like a worg. Of course this opens a host of other problems as well....
Two-handed fighter?
Move > Smash > repeat?
|
Bards aren't too bad; you just buff up people and let them go. Also gives great stats and skills to those who love to roleplay. Similar to sorcerer in the "pick spells and done", and if they have nothing better to do they just announce "singing" and the party loves them. In pFS bards appeal directly to this type (though like most classes, they can be as difficult or easy as you want them to be).
I would still try to get some versatility - Tripping or something. Its not too complicated and will make the class a lot more interesting!
edit: I dont think spontaneous casters wpould be a good idea.
Aehm... the simplest classes are not casters. Fighter that picks feats like weapon focus (always on), perhaps spell-less ranger or paladin. Cavalier with it's additional skill points, orders and other stuff could be a great RP choice. Rogue and monk IMO require a lot of out of the box thinking to shine AND they have tons of skill points to work with.
I would say simplist is fighter. help him keep it even simpler by picking always active feats. Things like:
The eternal weapon focus, weapon specilization, iron will, lightning reflexes, improved critical, quick draw, etc...
Then the player just needs help setting up the char sheet and it is all in the stats all the time.
The other thing I've heard of to keep it even simpler is making the missile fire and melee the same numbers.
Melee: battle axe and shield.
Missile: Composite longbow with the strength plus to damage.
Keep strength and dex even
If you take weapon focus take it in both together.
You will have the same bonus on the d20 to hit.
Both will have a d8+str for damage.
Human and some intelligence to get some decent skill points.
That's about as simple as I've ever seen.
|
|
While a sorcerer or a fighter may be a simple class to play, they are tremendously complicated to build effectively.
A sorcerer has so few spells known, that if you pick the wrong ones, or too many of the same type, you are hurting yourself. The fighter and his feats are similar, because fighters are all about their feats. If you pick some that don't give you the results you want, you're hurting yourself.
Because of this I would actually suggest cleric as a very simple class to pick up and go with. Yes, the player will need to adjust to preparing spells, but if he prepares the wrong ones one day and they don't work out, he can learn from it, rather than being stuck knowing ant haul and touch of the sea as his two spells known.
|
Bards aren't too bad; you just buff up people and let them go. Also gives great stats and skills to those who love to roleplay. Similar to sorcerer in the "pick spells and done", and if they have nothing better to do they just announce "singing" and the party loves them. In pFS bards appeal directly to this type (though like most classes, they can be as difficult or easy as you want them to be).
I love Bards with a deep love that few things can surpass...but they are not simple to play. Not until you've achieved some decent system-mastery, anyway. It is way too easy to make a Bard who's completely worthless in a fight, and they have way too many options (Performance, Spells, attacks) for them to be easy.
For simplicity? I'd go with Paladin, Fighter, or Ranger, depending on their roleplaying preferences. All are dead simple (the Fighter a bit more so, but many non-system focused people like either having skills, i.e. Ranger, or being good at social stuff i.e. Paladin). All are also pretty durable, which is important in a first character.
Also, I reccomend helping out on Feat choices and such. Hell, I'd probably have them describe what they want to play, then build it with them together, so that what they want and what they get are actually similar.
While a sorcerer or a fighter may be a simple class to play, they are tremendously complicated to build effectively.
A sorcerer has so few spells known, that if you pick the wrong ones, or too many of the same type, you are hurting yourself. The fighter and his feats are similar, because fighters are all about their feats. If you pick some that don't give you the results you want, you're hurting yourself.
Because of this I would actually suggest cleric as a very simple class to pick up and go with. Yes, the player will need to adjust to preparing spells, but if he prepares the wrong ones one day and they don't work out, he can learn from it, rather than being stuck knowing ant haul and touch of the sea as his two spells known.
True, I guess it's worth asking which one the OP is wanting us to suggest. I assumed the DM/group would be helping the new guy build his character, then he just needed something simple to play.
If we're worried about complexity being a barrier to entry, I would assume you want a simple character to play, though. Clerics have a lot of options and things to process when they're choosing their actions round-for-round. Channel? Spell? Which one? Attack?
Life Oracle. you just happen to be a walking bandaid.
Commoner.
Actually commoner with its lack of skills and competance (even the lack of a maximized first hit die) really makes them one of the most difficult, if not THE most difficult class in the game to make a PC out of.
I do not recomend Peasent :p
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16
|
I think Barbarian would be the most simple. You either hit things, or rage and hit things harder. Most difficult part is really picking rage powers, which should be easier to do than select Fighter feats to certain degree (smaller list of RP's compared to available feats), plus Weapon Training is technically a harder thing to keep track of (have to reference weapon groups and note when they increment at the appropriate levels). The only other thing of difficulty would be keeping track of rage rounds, which is as simple as keeping a tally mark that you get to erase clean after each day of rest.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Commoner.Actually commoner with its lack of skills and competance (even the lack of a maximized first hit die) really makes them one of the most difficult, if not THE most difficult class in the game to make a PC out of.
I do not recomend Peasent :p
Actually, it's quite easy.
Round 1: Run away.
Round 2: If you cannot run away, die horribly.
Life Oracle is Very easy to play.
you have 2 options
heal
make up a fluff action that gives you some minor advantage (like sucking a lollipop and saying it's total defense or conveniently tripping over an untied shoelace)
|
|
Life Oracle is Very easy to play.
you have 2 options
heal
make up a fluff action that gives you some minor advantage (like sucking a lollipop and saying it's total defense or conveniently tripping over an untied shoelace)
This is only true if you've completely screwed up on your Oracle's design. Either offensive spells or physical combatn (though perhaps not both, if you've focused on healing) should very much be an option for you as a Life Oracle.
Having introduced new players with Fighter, they are NOT an easy class to play for someone not savvy in math and the nature of rules mechanics in general.
Sure, all the Fighter does, mostly, is attack, but what's my modifier?
Are you Power Attacking? What about Cleave, Charge? Flanking? How do AoOs work? Iterative attacks?
Having different entries for different attack forms helps, but too many entries on the sheet can be just as confusing.
I'd go with Sorcerer (confer with the player and pick appropriate spells for them) or Cleric. Cleric has more options for spells, but as Mergy said, the player can actually learn which spells he prefers and swap them out, with a rather forgiving system.
life oracle with the correct revelations is easier than a cleric. you heal, contribute a limited set of other options (probably battlefield control) and you can improvise stuff.
Life Oracle is Very easy to play.
you have 2 options
heal
make up a fluff action that gives you some minor advantage (like sucking a lollipop and saying it's total defense or conveniently tripping over an untied shoelace)
That's not playing a Life Oracle. That's playing a terribly constructed oracle and then doing a terrible job of it. The advantage of the life oracle is that you can heal without the same action or resource costs that other mysteries require to so. There's not some mystical invisible life oracle ability that saps their ability to take offensive actions. If you're ANY Oracle and you don't have a reliable, consistant offensive option, you're grossly underserving yourself and your party. Life oracles are no worse at mixing it up than arbitrary other oracles. (Obviously they're worse at mixing it up than combat-focused mysteries.)
I'm like the player and I like fighters. It probably won't end up a terribly effective character, but you don't really notice if you're in the thick of things. (it might annoy some of the others, maybe?)
That's not playing a Life Oracle. That's playing a terribly constructed oracle and then doing a terrible job of it. The advantage of the life oracle is that you can heal without the same action or resource costs that other mysteries require to so. There's not some mystical invisible life oracle ability that saps their ability to take offensive actions. If you're ANY Oracle and you don't have a reliable, consistant offensive option, you're grossly underserving yourself and your party. Life oracles are no worse at mixing it up than arbitrary other oracles. (Obviously they're worse at mixing it up than combat-focused mysteries.)Life Oracle is Very easy to play.
you have 2 options
heal
make up a fluff action that gives you some minor advantage (like sucking a lollipop and saying it's total defense or conveniently tripping over an untied shoelace)
Oracles are kinda one trick pony ish, kinda like sorcerers, they have only so many spells known, and the steriotpyical life oracle who overfocuses on healing, isn't going to have much room for offensive spells until the later levels.
the cleric list doesn't have a lot of decent blasts unless you are talking about the domain list. battlefield control is kind of rare unless you are talking about blade barrier. most of the martial combat buffs are self only which wouldn't quite benefit a healer. the inflict spells suck, an oracles offensive spell options are limited unless you allow cleric domain spells to be added to the oracle list.
to the OP:
Fighter is one of the simpler classes, if only because a new player needs only to understand the combat rules to play effectively; not an insult, just saying it's a beginner friendly class compared to magus or something.
If the type of RP you're talking about is skill dependent, you might consider multi-classing into aristocrat or expert for the extra ranks, but that character shouldn't be the only melee fighter in the group given how lackluster NPC classes are.
If your player is intimidated by the rules complexity, you might consider scheduling a one on one play session where you explain every single thing you're doing, but if your player doesn't want to learn the system, that's sorta that.
|
|
Oracles are kinda one trick pony ish, kinda like sorcerers, they have only so many spells known, and the steriotpyical life oracle who overfocuses on healing, isn't going to have much room for offensive spells until the later levels.
the cleric list doesn't have a lot of decent blasts unless you are talking about the domain list. battlefield control is kind of rare unless you are talking about blade barrier. most of the martial combat buffs are self only which wouldn't quite benefit a healer. the inflict spells suck, an oracles offensive spell options are limited unless you allow cleric domain spells to be added to the oracle list.
Wrong? Yup, pretty much wrong.
Also, you're the one that said life oracles are easy to play; now you're saying that a badly built one will have few options.
Any spontaneous caster is difficult to build properly. Building a character is part of playing the game. Therefore, spontaneous casters are hard to play.
Clerics man. The great thing about them is that you can change your spells the next day when you realize that you don't need to memorize magic stone in all your slots.
Playing a fighter is not hard. Your modifiers can be precalculated if you avoid the feats that change them often (and even PA and expertise can be precalculated on the sheet allowig 3-4 simple options for the player to say if he goes for massive damage or defense). AoOs happen when DM says, or one of the more crunch-oriented players says. Skills are what most descriptive players can use to interact with the game, so massive skill point load is a thing to go for IMO.
BTW - Please note that OP mentioned the player hating mechanics of the game. Spells and changing them, testing interaction and then reading new spells... I think we want to avoid that all.
Barbarian, scream at stuff and smack them around
I'm not saying you're wrong Pierce, but managing your rage is complicated for beginners; I think Merck had it right with "Figure out what the player wants to do and teach them how to do that."
sorcerers and oracles are easy to play if you don't mind being a little suboptimal.
I would still try to get some versatility - Tripping or something. Its not too complicated and will make the class a lot more interesting!
Consider a Two-Handed fighter who can Sunder.
I've actually got a great Two-Handed Fighter build that gets Whirlwind Attack by 4th level and a Lunging Whirlwind Attack by 6th level. He's a lot of fun to play, utilizes a variety of Critical effects later on in the build to layer on conditions... if you want 'simple but fun', he would be my recommendation. I'd be happy to post the build for you/him.
Master Summoners can be fairly easy to play as well, and incredibly potent to boot.
I say fighter is easiest to play if someone else is doing the building for you, otherwise samurai (class features cover fighter weakness of poor will saves and feat selection is straight-forward).
|
I'd go with an archer build, probably a ranger although Zen Monk might work. Why? No need to worry about charging, flanking, or taking AoOs. Stand back and let fly!
Sure, there's cover to figure out, but it's easy enough for the GM to say, "Your target has cover, you can shoot this guy without cover or you can move here to avoid the cover." There's the problem of AoOs, but the GM can take it easy on forcing the archer into melee until they're more comfortable with the game.
|
|
I'd go with an archer build, probably a ranger although Zen Monk might work. Why? No need to worry about charging, flanking, or taking AoOs. Stand back and let fly!
Sure, there's cover to figure out, but it's easy enough for the GM to say, "Your target has cover, you can shoot this guy without cover or you can move here to avoid the cover." There's the problem of AoOs, but the GM can take it easy on forcing the archer into melee until they're more comfortable with the game.
As long as you write out his attacks in advance.
I think ranger would be better for a beginning player than zen archer. I have a zen archer, and at level 3 he's already got eight feats. That's too many different abilities and skills for a new player to have to worry about. There's also the BAB-in-flux issue for whether he's flurrying or using a single shot, and there's also worrying about Perfect Strike.
Life Oracle is Very easy to play.
you have 2 options
heal
make up a fluff action that gives you some minor advantage (like sucking a lollipop and saying it's total defense or conveniently tripping over an untied shoelace)
You have a depressingly narrow view of what a life oracle can be. Life oracles are actually really good at being offensive casters or a melee presence often while healing during the same turn.
You have a depressingly narrow view of what a life oracle can be. Life oracles are actually really good at being offensive casters or a melee presence often while healing during the same turn.Life Oracle is Very easy to play.
you have 2 options
heal
make up a fluff action that gives you some minor advantage (like sucking a lollipop and saying it's total defense or conveniently tripping over an untied shoelace)
i have never played a life oracle past level 3.
the only oracle i have really gotten to high levels is a battle oracle.
|
|
You have a depressingly narrow view of what a life oracle can be. Life oracles are actually really good at being offensive casters or a melee presence often while healing during the same turn.Life Oracle is Very easy to play.
you have 2 options
heal
make up a fluff action that gives you some minor advantage (like sucking a lollipop and saying it's total defense or conveniently tripping over an untied shoelace)
i have never played a life oracle past level 3.
the only oracle i have really gotten to high levels is a battle oracle.
Did you get bored with life oracle? If so, is it because you built it to be a healbot and nothing else?
Did you get bored with life oracle? If so, is it because you built it to be a healbot and nothing else?You have a depressingly narrow view of what a life oracle can be. Life oracles are actually really good at being offensive casters or a melee presence often while healing during the same turn.Life Oracle is Very easy to play.
you have 2 options
heal
make up a fluff action that gives you some minor advantage (like sucking a lollipop and saying it's total defense or conveniently tripping over an untied shoelace)
i have never played a life oracle past level 3.
the only oracle i have really gotten to high levels is a battle oracle.
the life oracle was built to be a healbot and nothing else, and the campaign ended early due to flaky players.
|
|
Fair enough. I wanted to make sure you didn't just have sour grapes for the mystery because it didn't work the way you wanted it to.
With the cleric spell list, you can definitely make an oracle of life work. Yes, it will be a mainly support role. No, you shouldn't spend every action healing. Command, hold person, shield other, protection from evil, resist energy, dispel magic, archon's aura, bestow curse, air walk, and freedom of movement to name just a few things an oracle of life could be doing with his turn when he isn't putting his awesome healing to work.
That class is a rock for other players to gather around.
Sorcerer has always been on my list of "give this role to the new guy" classes.
But Sorcerers still have to initially choose spells, which can be intimidating.
Fighters get too many feats to be called "easy". First you have to figure out which ones to pick, then you have to figure out how they work together then you have to remember how they apply during combat. It can be pretty difficult for a new player.
My pick for simplest class to play would probably go to the barbarian.
Fighter who uses templates. Especially Advanced Creature and Half-dragon give excellent bang for the lost levels without adding much complexity.
Fighter who uses templates. Especially Advanced Creature and Half-dragon give excellent bang for the lost levels without adding much complexity.
trolling?
Zen Archer Monk (if you ignore the recent...issues...) is pretty simple to build. Make sure to get Precise and Point Blank Shot by level 2 via general and/or bonus feats. Make sure to get Improved Precise Shot at level 6. No other choice you make with the build really matters much. Race: be a dwarf. Or an oread if it's available; you feel like doing a little more work than looking in the core rules for races.
Battle plan: Full attack. Full attack. Full attack. etc... In a tough fight, blow a ki point to attack even more each round. You could probably just code a computer program to run a Zen Archer Monk in battle. :D
On the other spectrum, you could make a cleric, druid, or summoner even though the classes themselves are complicated, and no batter how badly you **** it up optimizing, it'll still be a decent character.
Make sure to get Precise and Point Blank Shot by level 2 via general and/or bonus feats. Make sure to get Improved Precise Shot at level 6.
I'm not saying it's a bad build, but those are 2 sentences of jargon that will scare off a newbie.