
Haladir |

Similarly to how many people join the U.S. military to get assistance with paying for college, I suspect trans people will join up as a way to get assistance with the costs of hormones and surgery.
And maybe it'll help, but this does (practically) nothing to address the larger problems with America's f%++ed up military. Maybe trans folks will get some medical assistance, but this feels less like justice and more like tapping into a new group of disenfranchised people to exploit.
I've never served myself, but I have plenty of happy, well-adjusted friends and co-workers who are US military veterans. Some even saw combat. In fact, the only veteran I know personally who had a bad experience was a gay man who was outed during the "don't ask, don't tell" era in the late 1990s, and was forcibly discharged. He said many times that he'd probably would have been a career officer if the current rules allowing gay men had been in effect at the time.

![]() |

mechaPoet wrote:That's a pretty seriously cynical take on it. I'm pretty cynical about the military, but really? It's not like there aren't trans people actually serving now who won't be helped by this. Or transfolk who might want to serve for other reasons than assistance with transition costs, much like those who already do.Similarly to how many people join the U.S. military to get assistance with paying for college, I suspect trans people will join up as a way to get assistance with the costs of hormones and surgery.
And maybe it'll help, but this does (practically) nothing to address the larger problems with America's f*#@ed up military. Maybe trans folks will get some medical assistance, but this feels less like justice and more like tapping into a new group of disenfranchised people to exploit.
I don't think this step toward equality is going to do much to change the internal transphobia of military culture (or American culture more generally). So, yeah, this could help trans people in the military, but I find very little to admire or like about it in general. My ability to join up and be openly trans is technically more equal, but does nothing to make the military less hierarchical or less a violent imperialist force.

Judy Bauer Managing Editor |

Why couldn't they have done this a few years ago when nonstraights could enlist :/ Doesn't do s~%! for people who've already been discharged. One of my friends was outed just 2 years too early.
e: Yeah, she was able to get work with a military contractor, fortunately.
That was something I was wondering about that was really unclear from the articles I've read—what happens to those already discharged? Can they reenlist, and does it change their benefits? Some interviewed folks say they plan to reenlist, but in every case it was someone who left preemptively or was discharged for other reasons. Otherwise, sounds like no based on your friend's situation.

KSF |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |

Similarly to how many people join the U.S. military to get assistance with paying for college, I suspect trans people will join up as a way to get assistance with the costs of hormones and surgery.
Lots of trans people already join the military. Sometimes it feels like half the trans people I run into online are veterans.
Maybe trans folks will get some medical assistance, but this feels less like justice and more like tapping into a new group of disenfranchised people to exploit.
Some people value serving in the military. That includes some trans people. I'm not sure those people would say they're being exploited by something like this.
For others, the military can provide job opportunities that might not otherwise be available.
This really seems to me like a good thing. Especially for those currently serving, possibly as many as 15,000 people.
I do hope there's an opportunity for restitution to people like Gark's friend. Was there any precedent for that sort of thing set when gays and lesbians were openly admitted?

KSF |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |

Why couldn't they have done this a few years ago when nonstraights could enlist :/ Doesn't do s~$@ for people who've already been discharged. One of my friends was outed just 2 years too early.
e: Yeah, she was able to get work with a military contractor, fortunately.
Along those lines, I saw this tweet and this tweet from trans advocate Angelica Ross today. (She's one of the people behind "Her Story," and also runs a company that trains trans people to enter technical fields.)
Since hearing the news, I'm going to contact the Navy today to see about getting my discharge changed to "Honorable". Any Retroactivity?
and
My discharge from the Navy was "Uncharacterized" and I was then denied all benefits including the G.I. Bill

KSF |

Hey all. Have an HRT question for the other trans ladies here, if anyone's up for a nuts and bolts question.
I've been undergoing HRT for just under two and a half years now, estradiol (sublingual) and spiro. Today, in consultation with my doctor, I'm starting on progesterone (micronized).
I've been reading about how some people cycle on and off it, like taking it for 12 days, then off it for 16 days. Other people just take it every day, no cycle, which is currently the plan for me.
I was wondering, if there are any of you here with progesterone as part of your hormone regimen, whether you cycle it or not.
Also curious as to what kind of an impact it's had on you. I've heard both good and bad things about it.
I've just recently gotten things in my life stabilized after a very rocky and exhausting two years by making a small tweak to my estradiol intake (or at least that seems to be the case), and I'd like to try and avoid going through stormy weather again if I can avoid it. Or at least be ready to batten down the hatches if I need to.
And if it's not something you'd want to discuss on the forum, feel free to PM me.
Thanks all. I'm not around here as much as I used to be, but I'm glad to see this thread and this community still going strong.

Bob_Loblaw |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |

I don't want to derail KSF's question so I'll be brief.
I just want to give everyone an update. My mother passed away about an hour ago. She slipped into a coma because he liver failed. She was at peace when she passed. I never called her and I wouldn't have talked about myself even if I had decided to. I am saddened that she died, but I also am glad that she's finally at peace. I don't know if she would have accepted me or not. I don't really care either way. I have had a while to think about it and I am just happy that she is no longer in pain. Her life started off horrible and barely improved.
Please, don't forget to answer KSF's questions! I wish I had answers, but I don't.

Lorm Dragonheart |

I don't want to derail KSF's question so I'll be brief.
I just want to give everyone an update. My mother passed away about an hour ago. She slipped into a coma because he liver failed. She was at peace when she passed. I never called her and I wouldn't have talked about myself even if I had decided to. I am saddened that she died, but I also am glad that she's finally at peace. I don't know if she would have accepted me or not. I don't really care either way. I have had a while to think about it and I am just happy that she is no longer in pain. Her life started off horrible and barely improved.
Please, don't forget to answer KSF's questions! I wish I had answers, but I don't.
My condolences, I am glad she died in peace. That is this best you can hope for.

KSF |

I don't want to derail KSF's question so I'll be brief.
I just want to give everyone an update. My mother passed away about an hour ago. She slipped into a coma because he liver failed. She was at peace when she passed. I never called her and I wouldn't have talked about myself even if I had decided to. I am saddened that she died, but I also am glad that she's finally at peace. I don't know if she would have accepted me or not. I don't really care either way. I have had a while to think about it and I am just happy that she is no longer in pain. Her life started off horrible and barely improved.
Please, don't forget to answer KSF's questions! I wish I had answers, but I don't.
Very sorry to hear about your loss, Bob.
(And don't worry about derailing.)

Jessica Price Project Manager |
6 people marked this as a favorite. |

I don't want to derail KSF's question so I'll be brief.
I just want to give everyone an update. My mother passed away about an hour ago. She slipped into a coma because he liver failed. She was at peace when she passed. I never called her and I wouldn't have talked about myself even if I had decided to. I am saddened that she died, but I also am glad that she's finally at peace. I don't know if she would have accepted me or not. I don't really care either way. I have had a while to think about it and I am just happy that she is no longer in pain. Her life started off horrible and barely improved.
Please, don't forget to answer KSF's questions! I wish I had answers, but I don't.
May good memories of her brighten as the years pass, and be a source of warmth and fondness to you, and painful edges be smoothed away with time, until her memory is an undimmed blessing to you. And may you find peace and comfort from friends and loved ones until that happens.

Wei Ji the Learner |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

I don't want to derail KSF's question so I'll be brief.
I just want to give everyone an update. My mother passed away about an hour ago. She slipped into a coma because he liver failed. She was at peace when she passed. I never called her and I wouldn't have talked about myself even if I had decided to. I am saddened that she died, but I also am glad that she's finally at peace. I don't know if she would have accepted me or not. I don't really care either way. I have had a while to think about it and I am just happy that she is no longer in pain. Her life started off horrible and barely improved.
Please, don't forget to answer KSF's questions! I wish I had answers, but I don't.
Remember also, that ideal spiritual health is a balance of the selfless and the selfish.
Do not forget yourself as time progresses, and may your consideration of others be equally remembered.
But, most of all, condolences and may you grow as time goes on.

![]() |
5 people marked this as a favorite. |

@Bob
It sounds like you made the right choice, just from how you are talking about it. I wish you luck in sorting out your feelings and processing the loss.
@KSF
I just started 10mg/day of medroxyprogesterone exactly two weeks ago and I haven't noticed any major effects yet (to be clear, I'm not cycling). I had a big crying spell about something last night, but I've had those before (I always seem to get really emotional around the end of the month). Overall though, my mood has been pretty stable, I've also gotten a bit of libido back (haven't noticed a difference in boobs yet, but I'm also only on 9.75 months right now, so they are still WIP anyways). For the whole picture, I'm on 2 mg of estradiol twice a day and I've been trying 150 mg of spiro once a day for the past couple weeks.

Jessica Price Project Manager |

The Toast has ended...I'm gonna miss it.
Yeah, not gonna lie, I've basically been sobbing internally ever since they announced it.

Freehold DM |

I don't want to derail KSF's question so I'll be brief.
I just want to give everyone an update. My mother passed away about an hour ago. She slipped into a coma because he liver failed. She was at peace when she passed. I never called her and I wouldn't have talked about myself even if I had decided to. I am saddened that she died, but I also am glad that she's finally at peace. I don't know if she would have accepted me or not. I don't really care either way. I have had a while to think about it and I am just happy that she is no longer in pain. Her life started off horrible and barely improved.
Please, don't forget to answer KSF's questions! I wish I had answers, but I don't.
Damn.
I'm glad she isn't suffering anymore. I'm also glad you made a decision that worked for you.
May she rest peacefully.

Freehold DM |

The Toast has ended...I'm gonna miss it.
What is the Toast? Is it like the Oatmeal? Is it delicious?

Ambrosia Slaad |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

I don't want to derail KSF's question so I'll be brief.
I just want to give everyone an update. My mother passed away about an hour ago. She slipped into a coma because he liver failed. She was at peace when she passed. I never called her and I wouldn't have talked about myself even if I had decided to. I am saddened that she died, but I also am glad that she's finally at peace. I don't know if she would have accepted me or not. I don't really care either way. I have had a while to think about it and I am just happy that she is no longer in pain. Her life started off horrible and barely improved.
I'm glad she could go peaceably, and I wish you and your family the best in this time of grief.
May good memories of her brighten as the years pass, and be a source of warmth and fondness to you, and painful edges be smoothed away with time, until her memory is an undimmed blessing to you. And may you find peace and comfort from friends and loved ones until that happens.
{adds Jessica's reply to personal Memorable Posts list}

Ambrosia Slaad |

137ben wrote:The Toast has ended...I'm gonna miss it.What is the Toast? Is it like the Oatmeal? Is it delicious?
The Toast is difficult for a slaad to explain in a way that does it justice. I came to it late, but it was one of my very few regular haunts (along with Paizo and MeFi). I always felt welcome there, and I think I always came away from an article and the comments with more new insights and choice snark. If you have the time, I'd recommend poking through the archived articles and experiencing it for yourself. And do take the time to read the comments.

Kazuka |

I don't want to derail KSF's question so I'll be brief.
I just want to give everyone an update. My mother passed away about an hour ago. She slipped into a coma because he liver failed. She was at peace when she passed. I never called her and I wouldn't have talked about myself even if I had decided to. I am saddened that she died, but I also am glad that she's finally at peace. I don't know if she would have accepted me or not. I don't really care either way. I have had a while to think about it and I am just happy that she is no longer in pain. Her life started off horrible and barely improved.
Please, don't forget to answer KSF's questions! I wish I had answers, but I don't.
My condolences.
May your time of mourning be peaceful.

![]() |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

I don't want to derail KSF's question so I'll be brief.
I just want to give everyone an update. My mother passed away about an hour ago. She slipped into a coma because he liver failed. She was at peace when she passed. I never called her and I wouldn't have talked about myself even if I had decided to. I am saddened that she died, but I also am glad that she's finally at peace. I don't know if she would have accepted me or not. I don't really care either way. I have had a while to think about it and I am just happy that she is no longer in pain. Her life started off horrible and barely improved.
Please, don't forget to answer KSF's questions! I wish I had answers, but I don't.
You're a good person, Bob. And you're a great person too
My deepest condolences

Abraham spalding |
6 people marked this as a favorite. |

Bob I am glad you could find some peace in such a hard situation.
I am currently serving, and at each station I have been at the unit I have been with has worked hard to support LGBT rights. Not just in theory but by ensuring their pass requests for marriage went through smoothly, that their spouses were aware of the benefits available to them, getting IDs and the like.
I have had the pleasure and honor to serve with gay and straight Soldiers who all serve because they want to serve. Service does come with some benefits (I have gotten PRK for my eyes for example) but I have rarely met someone only serving for only the benefits.
Some do join for such but that is just as cynical as offering the benefits in the first place. The truth of the matter is more complex than that. The military is all volunteer, however it is still a profession and like all professions it needs to have something to offer beyond the paycheck. Yes I am proud to serve and serve for more than just the money and benefits but without knowing my family is taken care of that service would be much harder to give.
I look forward to serving with people in transition or who have completed transition. There will be challenges, there always is, but I am proud to work for one of the most progessive employers in the USA and am glad more will have the opportunity to do so as well.

![]() |
5 people marked this as a favorite. |

Hey all. Have an HRT question for the other trans ladies here, if anyone's up for a nuts and bolts question.
I've been undergoing HRT for just under two and a half years now, estradiol (sublingual) and spiro. Today, in consultation with my doctor, I'm starting on progesterone (micronized).
I've been reading about how some people cycle on and off it, like taking it for 12 days, then off it for 16 days. Other people just take it every day, no cycle, which is currently the plan for me.
I was wondering, if there are any of you here with progesterone as part of your hormone regimen, whether you cycle it or not.
Also curious as to what kind of an impact it's had on you. I've heard both good and bad things about it.
I've just recently gotten things in my life stabilized after a very rocky and exhausting two years by making a small tweak to my estradiol intake (or at least that seems to be the case), and I'd like to try and avoid going through stormy weather again if I can avoid it. Or at least be ready to batten down the hatches if I need to.
And if it's not something you'd want to discuss on the forum, feel free to PM me.
Thanks all. I'm not around here as much as I used to be, but I'm glad to see this thread and this community still going strong.
I've been taking progesterone as part of my HRT regimen for about four years now. prior to that I only took estrogen (first orally, but for the past six years or so via injection or patch). I take a half dose (I can't recall exact dosages) each morning, rather than cycling it like a lot of other trans women I know do. I don't really have a reason for that other than "I am very forgetful and could never keep track of that schedule in ym head." My original endocrinologist some 15+ years ago also started me on progesterone when I first began HRT, but he screwed up and prescribed FOUR TIMES the normal dosage, which caused a lot of emotional problems and pregnancy-like symptoms (and no, they were not fun; do not try that), so I got spooked and cut it out of my regimen for years.
Most of the changes I've noticed since putting progesterone back into my HRT lineup have been emotional. I feel like there's a little more meat behind my emotions, and I can manage them a little more effectively (though I also started back into therapy around the same time, so it's likely a combination of the two). I still get depression and anxiety--sometimes worse than before--but I'm also more aware of when I'm feeling these things and hence able to take more steps to manage them. I feel a lot more confidant when taking progesterone, and jokingly call them my "b%$ pills," because they give me the confidence to not please everyone all the time. I have a stronger sex drive on progesterone, but also more confidence so I'm not as bothered when it doesn't get fulfilled.
Physically, I've had a... pretty substantial growth spurt in my chest and hips, but apparently that result is atypical. I've also had more pimples, and have had to step up my skincare game. I don't sleep as well, and seem to get more headaches, but those could be a number of factors. Also, certain foods just taste insanely good now that I was neutral on before.
I hope this point of data helps inform your choices.

Kazuka |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Hey all. Have an HRT question for the other trans ladies here, if anyone's up for a nuts and bolts question.
I've been undergoing HRT for just under two and a half years now, estradiol (sublingual) and spiro. Today, in consultation with my doctor, I'm starting on progesterone (micronized).
I've been reading about how some people cycle on and off it, like taking it for 12 days, then off it for 16 days. Other people just take it every day, no cycle, which is currently the plan for me.
I was wondering, if there are any of you here with progesterone as part of your hormone regimen, whether you cycle it or not.
Also curious as to what kind of an impact it's had on you. I've heard both good and bad things about it.
I've just recently gotten things in my life stabilized after a very rocky and exhausting two years by making a small tweak to my estradiol intake (or at least that seems to be the case), and I'd like to try and avoid going through stormy weather again if I can avoid it. Or at least be ready to batten down the hatches if I need to.
And if it's not something you'd want to discuss on the forum, feel free to PM me.
Thanks all. I'm not around here as much as I used to be, but I'm glad to see this thread and this community still going strong.
Keep a solid watch on your opinion of yourself. If you start having a down period, or find darker thoughts happen a lot more often, let your doctor know immediately. And with that combination, don't be surprised if you have more frequent headaches.

![]() |
5 people marked this as a favorite. |

Well there are a couple of different versions of progesterone on the market. Medroxyprogesterone or provera, is cheap and it's a little white pill if I remember it right(or there's a depo version as well). It's progesterone-like and isn't bio identical and I felt it had a lot more side effects. It did definitely make me feel quicker to anger and I know it attaches to many of the same sites as testosterone so I've never really liked it. Prometrium(micronized progesterone) is more expensive and is isolated in Mexican yams, I think. About 6 to 10 times as expensive as it's a brand only medication or it was 12 years ago when I was researching it but it is bio identical and I find it far better to me. It levels my emotions a bit and i know it enhances some serotonin reception in the brain so it can actually help your moods quite a bit. I've done the cycle and I recommend it for a little while, personally based on anecdotal evidence, it just feels a little better, I usually do 14 on and 14 off, based on my injection. So I will start the night of one injection and end the night of the next. It's easy for me to remember that way. You can also just mark it on a calendar. Anecdotally, progesterone will help with secondary sex characteristics a bit. I had a noticeable difference once I started on prometrium after a couple of months. I recommend it personally, but I am not a doctor so consult with your gp and endocrinologist thoroughly.

KSF |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Keep a solid watch on your opinion of yourself. If you start having a down period, or find darker thoughts happen a lot more often, let your doctor know immediately. And with that combination, don't be surprised if you have more frequent headaches.
Thanks! I'm definitely planning on doing that. I just came out of an intense two years of depression and other unpleasantness, which I think was partly caused by the way I was taking my estradiol (prior to adding in P). Once I made that change, a lot of the darker thoughts I'd been having, like, every night sometimes, faded and haven't yet been back. If things start sliding that way again, will definitely let my doctor know ASAP.

KSF |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Well there are a couple of different versions of progesterone on the market. Medroxyprogesterone or provera, is cheap and it's a little white pill if I remember it right(or there's a depo version as well). It's progesterone-like and isn't bio identical and I felt it had a lot more side effects. It did definitely make me feel quicker to anger and I know it attaches to many of the same sites as testosterone so I've never really liked it. Prometrium(micronized progesterone) is more expensive and is isolated in Mexican yams, I think. About 6 to 10 times as expensive as it's a brand only medication or it was 12 years ago when I was researching it but it is bio identical and I find it far better to me. It levels my emotions a bit and i know it enhances some serotonin reception in the brain so it can actually help your moods quite a bit. I've done the cycle and I recommend it for a little while, personally based on anecdotal evidence, it just feels a little better, I usually do 14 on and 14 off, based on my injection. So I will start the night of one injection and end the night of the next. It's easy for me to remember that way. You can also just mark it on a calendar. Anecdotally, progesterone will help with secondary sex characteristics a bit. I had a noticeable difference once I started on prometrium after a couple of months. I recommend it personally, but I am not a doctor so consult with your gp and endocrinologist thoroughly.
Thanks Lissa!
My doctor originally prescribed medroxyprogesterone, because I'm on a very tight budget, but I read up on it, and asked her to write out a new proscription for the micronized progesterone instead and she did. My insurance isn't covering it, so there was a bit of sticker shock when I picked up my first prescription last week, but (at least so far) it feels like it was worth it.
I've felt pretty amazing the past few days, as good as when I first started HRT, if not better. Also feeling more comfortable in my body and being out in the world, though that might just be a placebo effect.
Heard back from my doctor today about cycling, and she said it wasn't necessary, just take it every day. Apparently that's following the recommendations of the Center of Excellence for Transgender Health at UC-San Francisco, which she puts a lot of stock in. So I guess I'll try daily for now and see how it goes. I'm at a half dose to start with. If things start to seem off, or if/when my dosage goes up, I'll raise the subject with her again.
And while it's obviously too soon for any significant changes yet, I've definitely been noticing some activity, so it's doing something.

Cthulhusquatch |

Most KKK are Christian Identity.. which is a bit different than Christian. A few are Traditional Christians... but most are not.
I'm pretty sure that the KKK used to actively identify themselves as Christians when they targeted Jews and Catholics. There are lots of a!!holes from then through today who wrap themselves in Christian (and other faiths') scripture when they target LGBT folks for hateful discrimination, laws, and violence. As a native Floridian former-Catholic half-out lesbian, I don't blame the larger majority of Abrahamic faithful for the comparatively tiny minority of a!!holes who want to foster hate and violence.

KSF |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

I've been taking progesterone as part of my HRT regimen for about four years now. prior to that I only took estrogen (first orally, but for the past six years or so via injection or patch). I take a half dose (I can't recall exact dosages) each morning, rather than cycling it like a lot of other trans women I know do. I don't really have a reason for that other than "I am very forgetful and could never keep track of that schedule in ym head."
Thanks Crystal! I'm on the same half dose, and my doctor's recommending daily rather than cycling. It's reassuring to hear someone else getting good results with the same approach I'm on.
Most of the changes I've noticed since putting progesterone back into my HRT lineup have been emotional. I feel like there's a little more meat behind my emotions, and I can manage them a little more effectively (though I also started back into therapy around the same time, so it's likely a combination of the two). I still get depression and anxiety--sometimes worse than before--but I'm also more aware of when I'm feeling these things and hence able to take more steps to manage them. I feel a lot more confidant when taking progesterone, and jokingly call them my "b&&&% pills," because they give me the confidence to not please everyone all the time. I have a stronger sex drive on progesterone, but also more confidence so I'm not as bothered when it doesn't get fulfilled.
The main thing I've felt internally so far is that I feel more substantial and grounded. I shifted my estradiol a little bit a month ago. Changed the timing of the pills, so I take one every 8 hours, rather than all 3 at once in the morning. I think having that sharp spike of E every morning, followed by the steep drop off due to estradiol's half-life, was causing problems. Once I changed things to be more evened out over the course of the day, there was a massive, immediate change. I felt like I'd swum to shore after being tossed about for two years in a horrible storm and was facedown on the beach, catching my breath.
With P added in (assuming it's not the placebo effect), I feel like I'm standing on my own two feet, and can start to think about going somewhere. Really hoping this lasts.
I've also noticed a slight uptick in my sex drive, which had been mighty low before. Kind of surprised me when I realized that was what I was feeling. Like, "Oh yeah, that."
Physically, I've had a... pretty substantial growth spurt in my chest and hips, but apparently that result is atypical.
I've been reading some trans women theorizing that progesterone is more effective when you take it after you've been on estrogen for a couple of years and already have some development. Wonder if that has anything to do with it. Like I said above, I can already tell that there's something brewing, so I'm hopeful. If not, my body's already responded pretty well to E+Spiro, and I usually pass these days (if I don't speak), so no biggie if nothing much happens. Still, fingers crossed.
I hope this point of data helps inform your choices.
Most definitely. Thanks!

Kobold Catgirl |
7 people marked this as a favorite. |

Most KKK are Christian Identity.. which is a bit different than Christian. A few are Traditional Christians... but most are not.
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:I'm pretty sure that the KKK used to actively identify themselves as Christians when they targeted Jews and Catholics. There are lots of a!!holes from then through today who wrap themselves in Christian (and other faiths') scripture when they target LGBT folks for hateful discrimination, laws, and violence. As a native Floridian former-Catholic half-out lesbian, I don't blame the larger majority of Abrahamic faithful for the comparatively tiny minority of a!!holes who want to foster hate and violence.
All that actually matters here is that the KKK and WBC both regard themselves as Christian organizations. It makes them Christian in the exact same way Daesh is Muslim and those adventurers really are the Dungeon Health Inspectors—"Well, they sure say they are; we should probably take them at their word."
I kind of doubt I'm blowing anybody's mind by stating this here, of course. :P

Bob_Loblaw |
6 people marked this as a favorite. |

Here's some Nerd News. I love that they are just making this a natural part of the character. I don't like the stories that feel like they are forced or pandering. Just make it normal.

Kazuka |

Here's some Nerd News. I love that they are just making this a natural part of the character. I don't like the stories that feel like they are forced or pandering. Just make it normal.
George Takei, the original Mr. Sulu, is gay. So to have the character he defined for multiple generations come out as gay has me dancing in my seat.

![]() |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |

It's nice that it happened but wow those movies are awful even though the guy playing bones really nails it and other tertiary characters are ok. The plots are just awful. They literally cured death in the last one. And in the previous one they figured out how to teleport long distances. Never showed up again. I mean, that literally replaces star ships without any consequences. >_<

Jessica Price Project Manager |
7 people marked this as a favorite. |

Oh goddess, can I please go ONE place without having to hear people complaining about "pandering" to marginalized groups.
All of media panders to white cishet men. I really don't care if someone else gets "pandered" to.
Marketing = "pandering" when the target's anyone but white cis men.
No one seems to question whether making the hero a straight white cis man is "forced," but if they're anything else, suddenly it needs to be justified or it's "forced" or "pandering."
The assumption behind that, of course, is that stories SHOULD be about straight white cis men, and shouldn't be about anyone else.

Kazuka |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

It's nice that it happened but wow those movies are awful even though the guy playing bones really nails it and other tertiary characters are ok. The plots are just awful. They literally cured death in the last one. And in the previous one they figured out how to teleport long distances. Never showed up again. I mean, that literally replaces star ships without any consequences. >_<
It's not the first time in Star Trek they've cured death. Star Trek 3 had Spock's death being cured as a result of a Federation missile being the entire plot.
The missile also never shows up again. But, the treaty that bans the Federation from developing or using cloaking technology comes after this, so it's entirely possible the Federation was forced to give up on the missile and cloaking technology both just to keep the rest of the galaxy from attacking them. But, yes, the Federation has had the technology to cure death ever since the 2200s.
They've also used the transporter that way a few times. Just ask Scotty. And Riker is a case of the transporter being successfully used to clone someone.
Theoretically, this is also why it is they have no trans people; it would be as easy as sticking someone in the transporter, making the necessary alterations to their pattern while they're dematerialized, and then rematerializing them. Want to transition from man to woman? It's probably two minutes of standing around bored in what looks like a field of static and then it's done, and without any of the side-effects that modern pharmaceuticals have.
And the long range transporter technology actually does exist in Star Trek outside those movies. Sisko himself mentions using the transporter to travel between planets a lot during his days at Starfleet Academy. It's heavily implied that they have the technology to do it, but the energy costs are potentially too prohibitive to make it a regular form of travel. It's established canon that they issue energy rations to military and civilians alike, so there's definitely some kind of power limitations they're dealing with.
There's also the fact that transporters are very easily detected, easily tracked, and easily blocked; in order to transport between two places, you need to know of everything between those two places that could interfere with your transporter beam. And that's assuming the place you're beaming to doesn't have some kind of tech to block it (nearly everyone does). So, beaming from Earth to Romulus, while theoretically possible, would fail because the Romulans would just block your transporter beam. This is likely also why it is that the Borg don't just use their transporter tech and drop a bunch of drones on Earth.
There's actually a lot of minor details that hint at the Federation's utopia being mostly propaganda that the characters buy into. Quark noted that for all of its propaganda of loving peace, humanity is every bit the warrior race that Klingons are; he's one of the few characters who didn't drink the Kool Aid, and the Dominion War proves how right he is.
The new Star Trek movies don't actually pull anything new as far as what the Federation is actually capable of. They just don't try to hide some of the more ridiculous items like previous Star Treks have.
Edit: If you're wondering how Khan could use a transporter to get onto the Klingon homeworld without it being blocked, the answer is simple: The Klingons were being incredibly stupid during that period of time. The smooth-headed TOS Klingons were because they tried to augment their race using the DNA of people like Khan... who were still technically human. Add to that, they overmined their moon to the point it exploded, causing such of a crisis they were forced to ally with the Federation just to survive. That's part of why the TOS Klingons seemed so human; to a large degree, they were. It took Klingons some time to clean up all of the messes they made during this era as well as purge the humanity from their gene pool, leading to the Klingons of TNG.

![]() |
Bob_Loblaw wrote:Here's some Nerd News. I love that they are just making this a natural part of the character. I don't like the stories that feel like they are forced or pandering. Just make it normal.George Takei, the original Mr. Sulu, is gay. So to have the character he defined for multiple generations come out as gay has me dancing in my seat.

Kazuka |

Kazuka wrote:George is not a fan.Bob_Loblaw wrote:Here's some Nerd News. I love that they are just making this a natural part of the character. I don't like the stories that feel like they are forced or pandering. Just make it normal.George Takei, the original Mr. Sulu, is gay. So to have the character he defined for multiple generations come out as gay has me dancing in my seat.
Ah. So Takei kinda feels that the new Sulu is pandering to the LGTB movement? At least, that's what I get out of his words; what he said is a pretty typical argument for a character being pandering.
That's... going to complicate discussions on Star Trek a lot. I think I'll stay out of them; there's too many people on both sides of the fence I want to slap some sense into.

Bob_Loblaw |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Kazuka wrote:George is not a fan.Bob_Loblaw wrote:Here's some Nerd News. I love that they are just making this a natural part of the character. I don't like the stories that feel like they are forced or pandering. Just make it normal.George Takei, the original Mr. Sulu, is gay. So to have the character he defined for multiple generations come out as gay has me dancing in my seat.
He doesn't have to be. It's not Gene's story anymore. I like the way they say they are handling it.

Kazuka |

Jessica Price Project Manager |
5 people marked this as a favorite. |

Krensky wrote:Ah. So Takei kinda feels that the new Sulu is pandering to the LGTB movement? At least, that's what I get out of his words; what he said is a pretty typical argument for a character being pandering.Kazuka wrote:George is not a fan.Bob_Loblaw wrote:Here's some Nerd News. I love that they are just making this a natural part of the character. I don't like the stories that feel like they are forced or pandering. Just make it normal.George Takei, the original Mr. Sulu, is gay. So to have the character he defined for multiple generations come out as gay has me dancing in my seat.
He didn't say anything about pandering--that's reading a lot into his response.
He said he didn't like that a character who'd been portrayed as straight was now being portrayed as gay, and that he would rather that they'd created a new character if they wanted a gay crew member, which is not an objection to acknowledging and attempting to market to LGBT viewers--it's just objecting to changing an established character.

Freehold DM |

Kazuka wrote:George is not a fan.Bob_Loblaw wrote:Here's some Nerd News. I love that they are just making this a natural part of the character. I don't like the stories that feel like they are forced or pandering. Just make it normal.George Takei, the original Mr. Sulu, is gay. So to have the character he defined for multiple generations come out as gay has me dancing in my seat.
very interesting.

![]() |
4 people marked this as a favorite. |

Recently attended the NEA (National Education Association) Representative Assembly in Washington DC.
This was a very active year regarding TG and LGTBQ rights in schools and the workplace. A number of new Business Items were passed during the assembly:
New Business Item 54
Action:
Adopted As ModifiedNEA will encourage all state and local affiliates to use existing means of communication to promote developmentally appropriate resources that help all educators support gender equality and safety in our schools such as, but not limited to, “Building a Gender Friendly School Environment: A Toolkit for Educators and Their Union,” from Education International.This resource can be found at https://download.ei-ie.org/docs/IRIS Documents/EI%20Campaigns/EFAIDS%20Programme/2007-00169-01-E.pdf.
Rationale/BackgroundStudents learn much about their gender identity in our schools and the issue of gender identity is closely connected to gender equality and safety. All educators need a toolkit of resources to build an overall gender-friendly school environment.
New Business Item 57
Action:NEA will encourage all state and local affiliates to use valid and existing resources to provide transgender and gender nonconforming awareness training for faculty, staff, and administrators such as, but not limited to, “The Teaching Transgender Toolkit: A Facilitator’s Guide to Increasing Knowledge, Decreasing Prejudice & Building Skills.” This resource can be found at http://www.teachingtransgender.org.
Rationale/BackgroundMost educators do not receive training or support in transgender awareness and it is not fair to assume that they will arrive at their schools with the skills they need to work effectively with youth from these communities.
New Business Item 60
Action:
Adopted As ModifiedNEA will provide all state and local affiliates with existing model language developed jointly by Gay, Lesbian, and Straight Education Network (GLSEN) and the National Center for Transgender Equity focused on district policy on transgender and gender nonconforming students that our school boards can adopt. This resource can be found at: http://www.glsen.org/sites/default/files/GLSEN%20Trans%20Model%20Policy%201 6_0.pdf.
Rationale/BackgroundState and local affiliates need policy language that reduces the stigmatization of and improves the educational integration of transgender and gender nonconforming students to further the successful educational development and well-being of every student.
So out of 125 new business items presented to the assembly, three were directly related to our community, and passed overwhelmingly in the Representative Assembly of Teachers and Educations from throughout the US.
I was very proud to represent California in this assembly and see the progress we are making and hope to see these issues percolate throughout the US, and hopefully become standard throughout our schools and educational establishments throughout the US.