Here is my character (15 point buy, Carrion Crown AP, no spoilers please):
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Szordrin Hyluan, Elven Internal Alchemist 3
HP 19
For 14
Dex 15 (I'm going to increase my Dexterity to 16 as soon as I reach level 4)
Con 10 (I'll take the False Life Extract as soon as I reach level 4)
Int 16
Wis 10 (I already took Iron Will)
Cha 10
Feats
Dodge, Iron Will.
Discoveries
Spontaneous Healing.
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As you can see, this is not an optimised build. I want my character to be versatile and resilient. We are only 3 PCs making their way through this AP (Alchemist, Invoker and Ranger) so I couldn't expect to be able to throw my bombs from a safe distance, well protected behind a line of allies. This is more a melee build than a ranged build (with the Strength boosting mutagen), since I knew that I would often end up toe to toe with the bad guys. Beside, I thought that the Ranger could make use of a flanking buddy.
So here are the Discoveries that I am considering for my next levels:
Lingering Spirit - Since I have a Constitution score of only 10, I'm thinking that this discovery could be a life saver for my character. Beside, it seems to work pretty well with the Spontaneous Healing discovery.
Smoke Bomb - As I said, I want my character to be versatile, and this discovery would give me a nice battlefield control option, something that I lack for now.
Explosive Missile - This discovery would greatly increase my ranged damage output (and my versatility). Since it requires a standard action, it seems like a perfect option to use against spellcasters as a readied action. On the other hand, a readied Smoke Bomb could screw a spellcaster in a similar way, as long as he's not too far away.
Force Bomb - Another battlefield control discovery that I would like to take as soon as I reach level 8. Since my character can to potent melee damage when properly buffed, even I would greatly benefit from the AoO provoked by prone opponents trying to rise up.
Fast Bomb - I'll probably take Fast Bomb at level 8 if I choose to take Smoke Bomb at level 4 or 6. Throwing two Smoke Bombs in a single round would let me reshape any battlefield to my liking. Of course, I won't take it if I take Explosive Missile.
Here are the Feats that I am considering for my next levels:
Medium Armor Proficiency - It just seem a natural choice for a character with a Dexterity score of 16 (breasplate) who seeks survivability.
Mobility - Alchemists cannot cast of the defensive, so I thought that a good way to drink an extract in a dire situation would be to just move away from the opponents. It would also help me provide flanking bonus to the sword'n'board Ranger.
Skill Focus (Acrobatics) - Read Mobility. Which of these two would be the better choice?
Endurance - Yeah I know, this is a crappy feat, but it opens the way to Diehard and if I take the Lingering Spirit discovery, it would be like having 20 bonus hit points.
Toughness - Having more hit points is always good, right?
Combat Expertise - I will only take this feat if I choose to follow the Improved/Greater Trip feats line. Since I will be able to increase my Strength to 22 with my mutagen and a potion of Bull's Strength, I could end up with a decent CMB. Furthermore, when I'll be level 10, I'll be able to make Beast Shape II extracts and turn into a large dire wolf with a free Trip attempt after every succesful melee attack. Do you think this could be a viable build?
So, what do you think about my choices? Do you have any advices to help me take a decision? Is there some awesome feats or discoveries that I forgot about? Thank you!
16 int isn't required and means you could get your con up. As for feats I suggest toughness and that you ignore mobility, skill focus acrobatics, and endurance. Also if you want to dump I suggest cha. Also a barbarian 1 dip increases your endurance by a lot, increases your str, bonuses to will saves, martial weapon profiency, medium armor profiency, increased movement speed, and four bonus health.
16 int isn't required and means you could get your con up. As for feats I suggest toughness and that you ignore mobility, skill focus acrobatics, and endurance. Also if you want to dump I suggest cha. Also a barbarian 1 dip increases your endurance by a lot, increases your str, bonuses to will saves, martial weapon profiency, medium armor profiency, increased movement speed, and four bonus health.
The character is already in play, we are about to explore the basement of Harrowstone, so I cannot change his ability scores. Beside, Spontaneous Healing gives me a "reserve" of 5 hp / 2 levels, which is not that bad I believe. I think that False Life could soften my weakness even more. I thought about taking a dip into the barbarian (for rage), fighter (for feats) or rogue (for skills) class, but that would mean waiting even longer before getting those nice high-level discoveries. :\
Toughness does feel like a nice choice however. But is 1 extra hp / level really better than +2 to AC (from medium armor proficiency)?
Trust me it's worth it if you're going melee.
Trust me it's worth it if you're going melee.
After how many Alchemist levels would you take the dip? I was thinking about something like Alchemist 4 / Barbarian 1 then go back to Alchemist.
If I was relying mostly on Mutagen I'd take the Barbarian level at level 2, or as soon as you can. Mutagen + Rage = Pretty sick.
If I was relying mostly on Mutagen I'd take the Barbarian level at level 2, or as soon as you can. Mutagen + Rage = Pretty sick.
You forgot Mutagen + Rage + Bull's Strength* = Pretty sick. I'll try to talk the Invoker into selecting Bull's Strength as one of his daily spells so that I could rise my Strength score by 12 points in a single round. I think this will make the Ranger cry. :)
What's an Invoker?
What's an Invoker?
Sorry, I meant Evoker, a Wizard specialized in the arcane school of Evocation. He's mainly a blaster, so this is why I didn't invest to much resources in my bombs: there's no need for two blasters in the same party.
I would actually rely on mutagen for a constitution increase, especially if your primary duty is to provide flanking support.
I would make your next extract Infusion so that you can pass out shield and expeditious retreat to others.
Hum, the Evoker can cast Shield on himself and a Shield Extract wouldn't be of much help to a sword'n'board Ranger, since shield bonus do not stack together right? No, my precious Discoveries are too few and far between to waste one of them on Infusion. Beside, I use Brew Potion extensively to supply the party in magic potions. :P
The constitution boosting mutagen eh? Never used it before. I think I would have a hard them hitting opponents without my Strength boosting mutagen, since I'm very bad at rolling dice.
I do use the Dexterity boosting mutagen when I need to disable a trap or open a locked chest. I think that makes me the party "Rogue".
If you have a blaster in the party I think stink bomb is a nice route... you get lots of mileage from nausea.
That would take your 4th level discovery and 5th level feat.
I'm not sure about the Stink Bomb discovery. Do you think that I'll be able to affect the majority of the creatures encountered in the Carrion Crown AP with it?
I would actually rely on mutagen for a constitution increase, especially if your primary duty is to provide flanking support.
I would make your next extract Infusion so that you can pass out shield and expeditious retreat to others.
Hum, the Evoker can cast Shield on himself and a Shield Extract wouldn't be of much help to a sword'n'board Ranger, since shield bonus do not stack together right? No, my precious Discoveries are too few and far between to waste one of them on Infusion. Beside, I use Brew Potion extensively to supply the party in magic potions. :P
The constitution boosting mutagen eh? Never used it before. I think I would have a hard them hitting opponents without my Strength boosting mutagen, since I'm very bad at rolling dice.
I do use the Dexterity boosting mutagen when I need to disable a trap or open a locked chest. I think that makes me the party "Rogue".
I must disagree with you on the Infusion discovery. It's a lot more than "Shield for your tank". Consider that extracts only take 1 minute to whip up. This means that any extract in your book is available to any member of your party at almost any time, within a minute (or two). It looks like you have no healer, so if nothing else it means you can hand out improved Cure potions, or whip them up between encounters.
If you're the party sneak, I can't really think of discoveries that help you out too much, except maybe for Tumor Familiar. There are lots of extracts that will help you, though, chief among them invisibility.
I would actually rely on mutagen for a constitution increase, especially if your primary duty is to provide flanking support.
I would make your next extract Infusion so that you can pass out shield and expeditious retreat to others.
Hum, the Evoker can cast Shield on himself and a Shield Extract wouldn't be of much help to a sword'n'board Ranger, since shield bonus do not stack together right? No, my precious Discoveries are too few and far between to waste one of them on Infusion. Beside, I use Brew Potion extensively to supply the party in magic potions. :P
The constitution boosting mutagen eh? Never used it before. I think I would have a hard them hitting opponents without my Strength boosting mutagen, since I'm very bad at rolling dice.
I do use the Dexterity boosting mutagen when I need to disable a trap or open a locked chest. I think that makes me the party "Rogue".
I must disagree with you on the Infusion discovery. It's a lot more than "Shield for your tank". Consider that extracts only take 1 minute to whip up. This means that any extract in your book is available to any member of your party at almost any time, within a minute (or two). It looks like you have no healer, so if nothing else it means you can hand out improved Cure potions, or whip them up between encounters.
If you're the party sneak, I can't really think of discoveries that help you out too much, except maybe for Tumor Familiar. There are lots of extracts that will help you, though, chief among them invisibility.
It looks like the Infusion discovery become increasingly potent as you level up, since I make all my potions at the minimum caster level required to save money. Also, you can't make potions with 4th-level spells, so this may be a good discovery to take at level 10. Before that, however, I really do not see what Infusion would let me do that I can't already do with enough preparation time and gold (Brew Potion). Having both Infusion and Brew Potion during the lower levels just seems a little redundant. As for the need of a party healer in Carrion Crown...
What it gets you is Every Extract in your book available without prep or gp in almost not time. Save the gold spent on potions and buy scrolls to beef up your formula book instead; you can then have every level 1 alchemist extract in that arsenal.
Put it this way - you only get 1 new extract from leveling up to 4, right?
Wrong. 600 gold will buy you 4 wizard scrolls (or cleric scrolls). So now you're up to 5 level 2 extracts. Invisibility, Cure Moderate, False Life, Blur, Cat's Grace all seem like decent options for your party. If you're going melee and so is the Ranger, Bull's Strength or Bear's Endurance might be options to look into. With your Int, you only get 2 2nd level dailies at level 4, unless you invest in Fox's Cunning to bring that up, but that's still one for you and one for Ranger (who I assume is tanking?).
Additionally, you can pass out 1st level extracts for your entire party. 1st level scrolls are a lot cheaper. Things like Touch of the Sea become a lot more valuable if you can whip them up for the whole party in 3 minutes.
I would of taken barbarian at first level for 4 bonus health. Take one level in barbarian and get out. Grab the feat extra rage.
Yeah that's the nice thing when you have a Wizard and an Alchemist in the same party: almost every new spells you buy can be learned by both characters, so it's a lot cheaper to learn new spells. :)
I would of taken barbarian at first level for 4 bonus health. Take one level in barbarian and get out. Grab the feat extra rage.
Never do that with a full-level caster or a 2/3 caster. Never. The loss of power is palpable and will haunt you until the campaign ends.
I would of taken barbarian at first level for 4 bonus health. Take one level in barbarian and get out. Grab the feat extra rage.
In fact I was considering a dip in the Fighter class at level 5 (Alchemist 4 / Fighter 1) to get 2 feats and spend them on:
- Combat Expertise + Imrpoved Trip
- Combat Reflexes + Stand Still
- Weapon Focus + Dazzling Display
- Mobility + Spring Attack
- Extra Discovery + Random Combat Feat
Barbarian would be better of course, but I'm not sure if I want to bother myself with keeping track of Raging rounds and all that.
I would of taken barbarian at first level for 4 bonus health. Take one level in barbarian and get out. Grab the feat extra rage.Never do that with a full-level caster or a 2/3 caster. Never. The loss of power is palpable and will haunt you until the campaign ends.
So you think I shouldn't dip magnuskn? What feat or discovery would you pick then?
Fighter is a great dip for alchemists. You don't have asf, so you can wear plate mail.
Also, you can't make potions of personal spells. But you can make infusions of them. Defensive Shock, etc. Personal spells are more powerful than most.
I would of taken barbarian at first level for 4 bonus health. Take one level in barbarian and get out. Grab the feat extra rage.Never do that with a full-level caster or a 2/3 caster. Never. The loss of power is palpable and will haunt you until the campaign ends.
+1. Medium armor proficiency is 1 feat away.
I would of taken barbarian at first level for 4 bonus health. Take one level in barbarian and get out. Grab the feat extra rage.Never do that with a full-level caster or a 2/3 caster. Never. The loss of power is palpable and will haunt you until the campaign ends.
How so? I think that bonus strength, con, martial weapon profiency, medium armor profiency, four bonus health, faster movement speed, and better saves far better for a melee alchemist. It's not a loss in power it's a gain in power. Unless you honestly think that extracts are the main focus of the alchemist.
+1. Medium armor proficiency is 1 feat away.I would of taken barbarian at first level for 4 bonus health. Take one level in barbarian and get out. Grab the feat extra rage.Never do that with a full-level caster or a 2/3 caster. Never. The loss of power is palpable and will haunt you until the campaign ends.
You're aware that the barbarian gives far more then that correct?
@cheapy why would you pick fighter over barbarian? roleplay reasons?
No reason.
No reason.
Not even for the ability to wear a Mithral Fullplate? :)
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How so? I think that bonus strength, con, martial weapon profiency, medium armor profiency, four bonus health, faster movement speed, and better saves far better for a melee alchemist. It's not a loss in power it's a gain in power. Unless you honestly think that extracts are the main focus of the alchemist.I would of taken barbarian at first level for 4 bonus health. Take one level in barbarian and get out. Grab the feat extra rage.Never do that with a full-level caster or a 2/3 caster. Never. The loss of power is palpable and will haunt you until the campaign ends.
Better saves? The Barbarian has 1 good save, an alchemist has 2. Unless you're talking about Rage, which gives him a +2 to will and Con. For that he gives up 2 AC, can't use knowledge skills (which an Alchemist should rock at) or Dex skills like Escape Artist or Disable Device, which seems like a priority for this character. What do you need with martial weapons when you have bombs and a sword and board ranger's got your back?
Note that this character has a Con of 10, which means that 4 rounds of Rage is all he can ever expect to squeeze out of 1 level of Barbarian. If Rage is so important, I say stick with Alchemist and get it as a 3rd level extract that lasts Concentration + level, for a minimum of 7 rounds, and doesn't fatigue him at the end. If he's got Infusion he can share with the Ranger, too.
I do think extracts, discoveries, and bombs should be the main focus of an alchemist build, and all three are level dependent. Otherwise why play one? Why dip in Barbarian when you could play a full Barbarian? A barbarian that dips in Alchemist for the mutagen can do some damage at lower levels, and even though I probably wouldn't do it, I can see the logic. An alchemist that dips in Barbarian? Blech. Not for me. If you have to dip, I think the fighter's bonus feat is worth more than 4 rounds of rage.
To OP - For this particular group (which sounds really cool, btw; I'd love to be in a 3 man party again), it seems to me that the alchemist ought to be the ranged attacker and the wizard the controller. If Ranger needs a flanking buddy, Wizzie should summon one for him - With a 10 Con, that shouldn't be your job. Maybe talk to the wizard player about not focusing so much on blasting, since he seems to be stealing your thunder and giving you an Identity crisis. I do agree that with this setup, you're definitely the skill monkey/sneak out of combat. I still advocate taking Infusion as your next discovery, but another good option is Precise Bomb, so that you can bomb whatever the Ranger's attacking without hitting him with your splash.
For a feat, you could do worse than Mobility. Some day you might want Shot on the Run.
if it helps you, im playing carrio crown with an alchemist too, im heavily focused on bombs (mindchemist varisian) and i got all the basic ranged feats plus a few extra discoveries (acid bomb, explosive and infusion) im not an optimizer (i dont have any dump stats and we play with like, 18 points) ands its quite fun, its easy to stay away from melee with a madbomber, and opening combat with an explosive bomb makes the DM hate u ;D
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I am playing an elf alchemist in Serpent's Skull and we are up to 9th or so. I'd suggest Tangle Bomb from Ultimate Magic - an area-effect tanglefoot bag PLUS damage, and the target is entangled whether or not it saves (a failed save nails it to the ground; a passed save leaves it entangled but able to move at half speed). Also, at 6th level Wings (also UM I believe) is terrific. Flying move without having to spend an action, and it's exceptional flight so no dispel or AMF screwing you up.
Others have said it far better than I could, so I won't add much to the debate... not having a great day so far, either, with a headache and all. :-/
I am simply extremely leery of giving up spellcaster power for a bit more martial oomph.
How so? I think that bonus strength, con, martial weapon profiency, medium armor profiency, four bonus health, faster movement speed, and better saves far better for a melee alchemist. It's not a loss in power it's a gain in power. Unless you honestly think that extracts are the main focus of the alchemist.I would of taken barbarian at first level for 4 bonus health. Take one level in barbarian and get out. Grab the feat extra rage.Never do that with a full-level caster or a 2/3 caster. Never. The loss of power is palpable and will haunt you until the campaign ends.Better saves? The Barbarian has 1 good save, an alchemist has 2. Unless you're talking about Rage, which gives him a +2 to will and Con. For that he gives up 2 AC, can't use knowledge skills (which an Alchemist should rock at) or Dex skills like Escape Artist or Disable Device, which seems like a priority for this character. What do you need with martial weapons when you have bombs and a sword and board ranger's got your back?
Note that this character has a Con of 10, which means that 4 rounds of Rage is all he can ever expect to squeeze out of 1 level of Barbarian. If Rage is so important, I say stick with Alchemist and get it as a 3rd level extract that lasts Concentration + level, for a minimum of 7 rounds, and doesn't fatigue him at the end. If he's got Infusion he can share with the Ranger, too.
I do think extracts, discoveries, and bombs should be the main focus of an alchemist build, and all three are level dependent. Otherwise why play one? Why dip in Barbarian when you could play a full Barbarian? A barbarian that dips in Alchemist for the mutagen can do some damage at lower levels, and even though I probably wouldn't do it, I can see the logic. An alchemist that dips in Barbarian? Blech. Not for me. If you have to dip, I think the fighter's bonus feat is worth more than 4 rounds of rage.
To OP - For this particular group (which sounds...
Let's consider that there is a feat called extra rage which will in fact give you enough rage for the entire day. Also casting rage wastes a turn of buffing where you could be doing something else. the penalty to armor is displaced by the profiency, barbarians give bonuses to will saves which alchemists desperately need. Also you will need a good melee weapon when you're not using your feral mutagen. As for bombs I think if you're making a melee oriented alchemist you need to consider that they're just there for versatility and battle field control with a little damage. what i'm suggesting isn't something irrational considering it helps you take hits far better than you normally would. Also in order to make bombs deal worthwhile damage you need to invest in several discoveries and I personally think it's a waste of time. In the end if he wants to be a melee alchemist dipping 1 level in barbarian is the best way to go. However if you want to bomb I suggest rapid shot, twf, hammer the gap, deadly aim, point blank shot, precise bombs, viper admixture, etc.
First of all, I would like to thank you all for all your insightful advices. The fact that a lot of you have different ideas on how the class should be played proves that the Alchemist is an awesome class that can be played in many ways. It can be a melee beast, a mad bomber, a skill monkey, a party buffer or a little bit of all those things.
I'm definitely not taking the mad bomber path. There is two reasons for that. First, we already have a blaster (Evoker) in our small party and I do not want to steal his thing. Second, the mad bomber concept do not fit very well in my vision of Sword & Sorcery, my favorite theme for a D&D/Pathfinder game. However, I don't want to let one of my class abilities go unused so I would like to take at least one bomb discovery to make this class feature more interesting. Beside, I find that an Alchemist throwing a Smoke Bomb once in a while, to cover his escape or to make a surprise appearance, is very thematic. I just don't want to turn into Bomber Man. I understand that some people can like the mad bomber concept since one of my player, in another game where I'm the GM, plays a mad bomber and he seems to enjoy it quite a lot. It's just not for me since I prefer the Witcher over the Green Goblin.
That being said, I think I'll try to convince the Evoker to take Toppling Spell as his 5th-level bonus feat. In that way I won't need Force Bomb and I could, at the same level, take a Fighter dip and take Smoke Bomb as my general feat and Combat Reflexes as my combat feat. Combat Reflexes + Toppling Spell seems like a nice little combo. :)
It sounds like you don't really want to optimize. That's cool, and I commend you for sticking to a concept.
Since you don't seem very interested in bombing and you want to stick to melee, I'm going to suggest another option to you - vivisectionist. Talk to your GM about trading the bombs in for sneak attack damage, since you want to be the ranger's flanking buddy. Don't like the anthropomorphic animal jazz? Just don't use it.
I'm pretty sure Internal and Vivisectionist can stack, since the only overlap seems to be the alternatives for discoveries (that shouldn't really be a problem, right?). Even if that doesn't quite follow RAW, I would allow it as GM because I think you ought to be rewarded for the teamwork spirit it takes to back off of ranged damage because it's the wizard's turf and to flank with relatively low strength and con because it helps the Ranger out. I still promote Infusion as your next discovery, but there's plenty of options for a melee Alchemist, especially when bombs are off the table.
I still say stick to Alchemist (to get that sneak attack damage up, duh), but if you go Vivisectionist, consider dipping into Rogue instead of Fighter. You'll get proficiency with a Rapier, and you can spend a discovery getting Weapon Finesse as a Rogue talent (and you can spend a feat on a discovery). The sneak damage will stack with your Vivisectionist levels.
BTW, if you just want the smoke for flourish/flavor reasons, you don't need to spend a discovery and you don't even need bombs. Just whip up some smokesticks. You get a ten foot cube of smoke for like 10+ minutes.
You're an Alchemist, dude. As of 3rd level, you can make alchemical items (like smokesticks, or tanglefoot bags, or tindertwigs [matches]) twice as fast, and you get a bonus to Craft Alchemy checks equal to your Alchemist level.
It sounds like you don't really want to optimize. That's cool, and I commend you for sticking to a concept.
Since you don't seem very interested in bombing and you want to stick to melee, I'm going to suggest another option to you - vivisectionist. Talk to your GM about trading the bombs in for sneak attack damage, since you want to be the ranger's flanking buddy. Don't like the anthropomorphic animal jazz? Just don't use it.
I'm pretty sure Internal and Vivisectionist can stack, since the only overlap seems to be the alternatives for discoveries (that shouldn't really be a problem, right?). Even if that doesn't quite follow RAW, I would allow it as GM because I think you ought to be rewarded for the teamwork spirit it takes to back off of ranged damage because it's the wizard's turf and to flank with relatively low strength and con because it helps the Ranger out. I still promote Infusion as your next discovery, but there's plenty of options for a melee Alchemist, especially when bombs are off the table.
I still say stick to Alchemist (to get that sneak attack damage up, duh), but if you go Vivisectionist, consider dipping into Rogue instead of Fighter. You'll get proficiency with a Rapier, and you can spend a discovery getting Weapon Finesse as a Rogue talent (and you can spend a feat on a discovery). The sneak damage will stack with your Vivisectionist levels.
In Pathfinder, I believe that all elves get rapier proeficiency for free.
BTW, if you just want the smoke for flourish/flavor reasons, you don't need to spend a discovery and you don't even need bombs. Just whip up some smokesticks. You get a ten foot cube of smoke for like 10+ minutes.
You're an Alchemist, dude. As of 3rd level, you can make alchemical items (like smokesticks, or tanglefoot bags, or tindertwigs [matches]) twice as fast, and you get a bonus to Craft Alchemy checks equal to your Alchemist level.
Internal Alchemists lose the Swift Alchemy class feature, but they keep the +1 bonus/level to craft (alchemy) check when creating alchemical items. With a single rank in craft (alchemy), I have +10 on my craft (alchemy) check for the purpose of creating alchemical items. If I invest in a laboratory, this bonus can go up to +12 at my current level. I'll re-read the crafting rules to see if I can still create alchemical items in a reasonable amount of time.
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In Pathfinder, I believe that all elves get rapier proeficiency for free.It sounds like you don't really want to optimize. That's cool, and I commend you for sticking to a concept.
Since you don't seem very interested in bombing and you want to stick to melee, I'm going to suggest another option to you - vivisectionist. Talk to your GM about trading the bombs in for sneak attack damage, since you want to be the ranger's flanking buddy. Don't like the anthropomorphic animal jazz? Just don't use it.
I'm pretty sure Internal and Vivisectionist can stack, since the only overlap seems to be the alternatives for discoveries (that shouldn't really be a problem, right?). Even if that doesn't quite follow RAW, I would allow it as GM because I think you ought to be rewarded for the teamwork spirit it takes to back off of ranged damage because it's the wizard's turf and to flank with relatively low strength and con because it helps the Ranger out. I still promote Infusion as your next discovery, but there's plenty of options for a melee Alchemist, especially when bombs are off the table.
I still say stick to Alchemist (to get that sneak attack damage up, duh), but if you go Vivisectionist, consider dipping into Rogue instead of Fighter. You'll get proficiency with a Rapier, and you can spend a discovery getting Weapon Finesse as a Rogue talent (and you can spend a feat on a discovery). The sneak damage will stack with your Vivisectionist levels.
So there you go. You're already proficient with bows and rapiers; if your GM lets you convert to Vivisectionist, you can spend a feat on Weapon Finesse. Get yourself a rapier and start making Dexterity Mutagen instead of Strength to bring up your attack rolls and AC and Stealth Rolls and Disable Device Checks and Ranged Attack Rolls and Reflex saves. Reflex isn't your worst save but I'd wager it's the most common at your level. Certainly it's the most common when trying to spring/deactivate traps. This drops your Wisdom and Will, though, so Con Mutagen might also be a good choice.
Alternatively, you could put a feat into Medium Armor Proficiency and wait until level 6 to spend your next discovery on Rogue Talent: Weapon Finesse. In the meantime you could keep pumping out that Strength Mutagen if you need to. This way neither your extracts nor your discoveries suffer. And by level 7 you'll be up to 3rd level extracts and Infusion will be even more worth it.
Vivisectionists can't choose any rogue talent. Just two very specific ones.
Vivisectionists can't choose any rogue talent. Just two very specific ones.
Huh. Right you are.
Guess it wouldn't make too much sense to keep having a Rogue class the other way.
Between the Crypt-Breaker and the Vivisectionist, there really isn't a point to the rogue class.Vivisectionists can't choose any rogue talent. Just two very specific ones.Huh. Right you are.
Guess it wouldn't make too much sense to keep having a Rogue class the other way.
Yeah, I already feel like I'm cheating the Rogue when I use a Dexterity boosting mutagen before making a Disable Device check. When I'll be level 4 I'll be able to add a Cat's Grace extract on top of that. Poor Rogue... :(
Yeah, I already feel like I'm cheating the Rogue when I use a Dexterity boosting mutagen before making a Disable Device check. When I'll be level 4 I'll be able to add a Cat's Grace extract on top of that. Poor Rogue... :(Between the Crypt-Breaker and the Vivisectionist, there really isn't a point to the rogue class.Vivisectionists can't choose any rogue talent. Just two very specific ones.Huh. Right you are.
Guess it wouldn't make too much sense to keep having a Rogue class the other way.
Does that mean you're considering the switch to Viv?
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My alchemist is heavy on the DEX. When I go all in, my AC is about 30 at 8th or 9th level, which is the same or better than the full plate/tower shield paladin.
I haven't yet taken the plunge, but I am contemplating in the next level or two taking Weapon Finesse and going with some kind of lots-of-attacks form (gargoyle or velociraptor or allosaurus or whatever and boosting with thorn body to add beaucoup damage). Just a thought...
Does that mean you're considering the switch to Viv?Yeah, I already feel like I'm cheating the Rogue when I use a Dexterity boosting mutagen before making a Disable Device check. When I'll be level 4 I'll be able to add a Cat's Grace extract on top of that. Poor Rogue... :(Between the Crypt-Breaker and the Vivisectionist, there really isn't a point to the rogue class.Vivisectionists can't choose any rogue talent. Just two very specific ones.Huh. Right you are.
Guess it wouldn't make too much sense to keep having a Rogue class the other way.
I did consider playing a Vivisectionist before the start of the campaing, but I believe that some battlefield control bombs would be more useful to the party than more damage per round via sneak attack. Sure, the Evoker will probably take some battlefield control spells, but is main thing will be blasting and I'll try to fill the gap by throwing some battlefield control or debilitating bombs at the start of an encounter and then switch to melee mode when my opponents come into melee reach. The Ranger will be the tank with high AC and lots of hit points (he has already taken Diehard) and no battlefield control ability to speak of (unless he takes Shield Slam, which would be sweet). I'm the only D&D veteran player in this party so I'm the one who tweaks his character to make sure that we have a well-rounded party. Beside, I believe that an Evoker makes a better blaster than an Alchemist, thanks to Spell Specialization, Intense Spells and Quicken Spell.