Does the sirocco spell knock people prone/out of the air every round? Or is it only the damage that is repeated each round?
If yes, then it makes sense but is WAY powerful, if not, than it seems more balanced, but becomes nonsensical.
The duration is round/level, not instantaneous or instantaneous and round/level (see text) or anything else like that. Spell description says it's a blast of hot wind blowing down. Based on all that, seems pretty clear that the blast of wind keeps up for the entire duration.
And it's a 6th level spell. It's pretty powerful, but not overpowered.
It deals substantial amounts of damage, grounds fliers, knocks everyone prone, and makes everyone exhausted.
I'm not entirely convinced that it's balanced.
Well, it has a limited version of the same effect as a 5th level druid spell (control winds) plus fire damage and fatigue/exhaustion. The fly dc to stay airborne (and thus easily get out of the aoe) is 15, which should be very easy for any flying enemies. Fortitude save, which is the most common best save for enemies. Seems pretty reasonable.
Short of high energy resistance or immunity to it, taking damage is automatic regardless of the save result, as is the fatigue/exhaustion effect (which triggers if you take ANY damage).
Waves of exhaustion is a level HIGHER, has a smaller area, and does LESS!
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Waves of Exhaustion doesn't allow for Fire Resistance/Immunity, inflicts exhaustion in 1 step instead of 2, and affects a larger area (60' cone vs. 20' radius). You can simply move out of Sirocco after getting fatigued to avoid exhaustion.
Depending on the situation, Sirocco might be more useful. Or not.
Waves of exhaustion has no save, though.
That would be a point if sirocco's save prevented the exhaustion effect (it doesn't).
You have to take damage from it to get fatigued, though. Fire resistance/immunity is by far the most common in the game, especially by level 11-12. And Ray of Exhaustion is only 3rd level and assuming you can not roll a 1 on the attack, will for sure fatigue someone, exhaust if they fail the save. Yeah, it's only one person, but it's far more guaranteed success. If you have more than 2-3 foes, unless the DM's throwing a "TPK or run away!" (hey, that rhymed!) at you, having that many enemies means you would probably be able to just fireball and outright kill them all anyway.
It's very powerful compared to other evocations. Can say the same thing for most non-evocation spells. I wish evocation had more multi-threat (damage + battlefield control) spells like this.
Does the sirocco spell knock people prone/out of the air every round? Or is it only the damage that is repeated each round?
If yes, then it makes sense but is WAY powerful, if not, than it seems more balanced, but becomes nonsensical.
Yes it does.
Yes it is powerful, especially against flying opponents who don't happen to be flying higher than the AOE. Please do note that the AOE has a vertical limit, though, and if you center the spell in the air higher than its vertical limit to catch a foe flying higher than the ordinary AOE, that it's no longer affecting the ground.
That would be a point if sirocco's save prevented the exhaustion effect (it doesn't).
Walking at a leisurely pace out of the AOE prevents the exhaustion effect.
I mean yeah, it's a pretty awesome spell. It's a regular memorization for my druid. But it's not overpowered for its level.
It combos quite well with other spells (such as tar pool) which readily prevent "leisurely walking out."
Tar pool prevents movement, does a fair amount of damage, and penalizes prone targets. Sirroco does fair damage, KNOCKS PEOPLE PRONE, takes care of fliers, and exhausts them all too.
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Now you're talking about the combined effects of two 6th level spells.
This is something that should be powerful.
It's also something that you'll rarely find optimal conditions for.
And, given those optimal conditions, you're unlikely to have players with those two spells ready to go to take advantage of the situation. Unless those players scouted ahead and prepared.
Proper preparation is something that should be rewarded.
So what, exactly, is the issue?
There never was an issue. I merely stated that sirocco struck me as being a little broken (for its level), and people started defending it. It's probably because they like taking advantage of it with their characters.
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I've never used it or seen it used, as the few games I've been in that made it past 10th level failed to have any full casters for some reason.
In any case, some things are just more powerful in some situations than others. If a player latches on to some powerful spell, ability, combination, or whatever, it's up to the GM to switch it up and present a situation that marginalizes the crutch.
I've used Sirocco a grand total of once. I threw it in a room, it turned out the room was larger than it first appeared and the bad guys just moved to the edges out of it. The melee characters then complained about not being able to do anything because the spell was in the way of them and the bad guys until I finally dismissed it.
Don't really have a stake in it...
I've never used the spell, I generally play in groups that stick to the core rulebook, so my opinion of it not being broken is entirely academic. Perhaps if I had play tested it, my opinion would change in one direction or the other - ie. it's broken, or it just sucks and why would anyone ever cast it.
It combos quite well with other spells (such as tar pool) which readily prevent "leisurely walking out."
Tar pool prevents movement, does a fair amount of damage, and penalizes prone targets. Sirroco does fair damage, KNOCKS PEOPLE PRONE, takes care of fliers, and exhausts them all too.
Hell yes it does. I can't wait to get off my damn GM shift in my game so I can drop that (quickened) combo on someone. Or group of someones.
There never was an issue. I merely stated that sirocco struck me as being a little broken (for its level), and people started defending it. It's probably because they like taking advantage of it with their characters.
Broken compared to what?
I found myself using it twice, in a recent game, but found myself using creeping doom, finger of death, and heal more often, as circumstances dictated. DOODAD!
If you mean because of the exhaustion, note that the enemies don't become exhausted until the 2nd round, and that your allies could be affected by sirocco just as easily as the enemies. In my experience, the magus and sorcerer were finishing mopping up by round 2 or 3 in most combats, and having exhausted enemies was sort of pointless in our game.
But yes, sirocco is a situationally AWESOME spell.
There is a lot of truth to what RD is saying.
Still not quite as broken as Wall of Sound + Sleet Storm :)
There is a lot of truth to what RD is saying.
Still not quite as broken as Wall of Sound + Sleet Storm :)
HOLY CRAP! I've heard of abuses using wall of sound (such as throwing a handful of pebbles at it when an enemy stands next to it), but it never occurred to me to use something like this.
Okay wow. I cannot imagine any GM would allow the wall of sound to do 2d4+1/lvl per rain drop if it was cast in a storm. That's so amazingly abusive it's obviously going to be nerfed as soon as you try it..
..but there's got to be a similar combo that's still gross but not so gross as to be autonerfed. Ideas?
Well, violent thrust of Telekinesis to toss 15 objects. But that's 2 rounds and an extra 5th level spell, I'm sure there's more efficient methods.
Summon Swarm?