...Bandit? Scout?
To reiterate what Cheapy said Bandit (my favorite because Ambush is lots of fun!) and the Scout (who doesn't like more opportunities to deal sneak attak damage!) seem to be your choices for a boost to your combat capabilities.
Maybe your games are vastly different, but it seems that most people run into one or two traps over the span of their entire characters.
Trap finding isn't all that great. A level 1 spell does the job just fine.
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A level 0 spell finds any magical traps, though you need dispel to disable them. Anyone can find nonmagical traps, and a wis-based class with Perception as a class skill like Druid or Monk can probably do it better than you.
Not much of a loss.
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I think most archetypes for every class is crap for this reason. Most of them takes away good features.
Got to say, really like how the Quintessential books did it. Here you go, have this, but this and that gets taken or diminished. Ah the great outlaw.
scout, + sap master feats, very viable. Even better with ninja, but he doesn't get trapfinding in the first place.
:D
I remember a time when ninjas did get trapfinding. And that is just one more reason to never swap the old ninja class for the new.
PF trapfinding is no big deal since anybody can find traps. So you're losing nothing important.
Actually, I've found the bonuses to Perception (to find traps) and Disable Device that trapfinding provides to be pretty sweet for certain skillmonkey builds. Especially since the bonus is to ALL Disable Device checks. All of them (covering lockpicking and other stuff as well).
Anybody can try to find traps. But a character with the Trapfinding ability will be much better at it. Is it essential? No. But it's a nicer ability than it's often given credit for, IMHO.
Saronian, forgive me if I missed this, but is there a reason why the core rogue, sans archetypes, is not an option?
I ask because the thing about playing a combat rogue and adding archetypes is that, if you refuse to give up trapfinding, this means you're giving up uncanny dodge.
And assuming the combat rogue I am playing is a melee rogue, I personally do not want to necessarily give up uncanny dodge. It's too useful to be able to be immune to flat-footedness (beyond the usual, means I can make AOOs on the first turn, even if it's not my initiative yet which is a small but nice perk) and then flanking (which is useful for combat rogues, because they tend to be more the "hard to hit" than "damage sink" types in terms of defense, so denying any attacker a bonus to hit while flanking, let alone enemy sneak attack, is a good thing).
It's not necessary of course and I'm sure you can build a combat rogue without uncanny dodge (I agree with the above posters that scout's a good bet), but I'm just curious as to why an archetype is required.
If your dm allows traits from campaigns or other campaigns then what you are on, then you can pick up the trait "Trap Finder" from mummy's mask. Though this also allows you to pick up the trait and not be a rouge, so you could play as any class with the ability to disarm magical traps.
That being said I am still not sure there are any good rouge choices other then ninja.
PF trapfinding is no big deal since anybody can find traps. So you're losing nothing important.Actually, I've found the bonuses to Perception (to find traps) and Disable Device that trapfinding provides to be pretty sweet for certain skillmonkey builds. Especially since the bonus is to ALL Disable Device checks. All of them (covering lockpicking and other stuff as well).
Anybody can try to find traps. But a character with the Trapfinding ability will be much better at it. Is it essential? No. But it's a nicer ability than it's often given credit for, IMHO.
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And Trapspotter, which is almost a "must have'. Heck, I think it just should be a Rogue feature.
Sanctified Rogue gives up UD, gets back +1 to Will & Fort, which is nice. Also gets Augury later. I'd say this is nice as a dip, but augury isn;t worth waiting for.
Scout, when combined with a race that gets your a big Two handed weapon (and half-orcs make great scouts) is a real winner for those who like to deal out damage without sticking around for a Full attack. Later @8th level, if you can have Spring attack, you can spring into & out of combat, getting a Sneak attack every time. This is killer.
Sanctified Rogue gives up UD, gets back +1 to Will & Fort, which is nice. Also gets Augury later. I'd say this is nice as a dip, but augury isn;t worth waiting for.
Giving up Uncanny Dodge for a static +1 to fort and will is a terrible trade. If it scaled, or better if it made fort and will use the good progression instead of poor then it might be worth it.
Scout, when combined with a race that gets your a big Two handed weapon (and half-orcs make great scouts) is a real winner for those who like to deal out damage without sticking around for a Full attack. Later @8th level, if you can have Spring attack, you can spring into & out of combat, getting a Sneak attack every time. This is killer.
Eh it could work. I'll put scout on my list of not bad rouge archtypes. The problem with a lot of the rouge archtypes is that they are clearly designed for NPC/hirelings rather then players.
That being said, if you really want to play as a rouge I'd suggest playing as Ninja with the trap finder trait. Trap sense is nice but really isn't needed.
Sanctified Rogue gives up UD, gets back +1 to Will & Fort, which is nice. Also gets Augury later. I'd say this is nice as a dip, but augury isn;t worth waiting for.
Giving up Uncanny Dodge for a static +1 to fort and will is a terrible trade. If it scaled, or better if it made fort and will use the good progression instead of poor then it might be worth it.
Not really, while i agree that uncanny dodge isn't useless (for a DEX based rogue), it's isn't exactly good for a rogue (btw it's better for superstitious barbarians) so i could see it traded for even +1 to two weak saves, it's like taking two half feats.
Not really, while i agree that uncanny dodge isn't useless (for a DEX based rogue), it's isn't exactly good for a rogue (btw it's better for superstitious barbarians) so i could see it traded for even +1 to two weak saves, it's like taking two half feats.
Sanctified Rogue gives up UD, gets back +1 to Will & Fort, which is nice. Also gets Augury later. I'd say this is nice as a dip, but augury isn;t worth waiting for.
Giving up Uncanny Dodge for a static +1 to fort and will is a terrible trade. If it scaled, or better if it made fort and will use the good progression instead of poor then it might be worth it.
But he's right in that it should scale, such as a +2 @ 10th level.
What I want to know is why can't I find a decent archetype that gets rid of Evasion? Seriously, the monk can ditch it for cool stuff, why can't the rogue? As one of the few things that could be swapped it really seems crazy to me that it very very rarely is. Why can't the combat archetypes swap it for something and then use heavy armor to avoid dying? Why can't I make a Fighter/Rogue that isn't crippled by his mithral full plate with its whole -0 ACP once I get done mitigating it?
What I want to know is why can't I find a decent archetype that gets rid of Evasion? Seriously, the monk can ditch it for cool stuff, why can't the rogue?
The Ninja has done this. No evasion, more combat, what's the problem?
The Ninja has done this. No evasion, more combat, what's the problem?
There are a few. First, it makes it not a good idea to dump charisma. Second while it may be not an issue for some, flavor. Third, it is one of only 3 options I could find and the other two involved a book I don't own (Pirates of the Inner Sea I think) and was underwhelming or being a halfling and was underwhelming.
I would like Rogue Archetypes that replace Rogue talents gained at certain levels.