kukri?
short sword?
Short sword, as is. Or, if that's too long: Dagger.
There are a lot of bladed weapons which in real life are quite capable of both piercing and slashing which have only one of those types of damage in pathfinder: Short Sword, Long Sword, Halberd, Punching Dagger, Great Sword, Bastard Sword, and I am sure there are some I am missing. Basically, I don't see why you should alter the mechanics of a weapon because in a movie the weapon you want to depict is used a little differently. He should have a short-sword, don't change its mechanics. When have you ever imagined a short-sword that can not slash? Well, according to game mechanics it is a piercing weapon only. So what? It is just mechanics for the purpose of game balance, and is not supposed to realistically depict the weapon's use in real life.
|
A dagger as written is just fine. Both P/S and you can throw it in a pinch.
Using RAW and assuming your average Jo is a 1st level commoner with a 10 Con he/she would have 3 HP (only PC's get max at 1st level all others get the average). That makes a dagger very deadly! Plus, I am betting that Legolas (20 Dex?!?) had +1 Agile daggers so it would be more like 1d4+6 (one for enchantment and 5 from Dex). One hit kill every time for a generic Orc.
|
There are reasons for the way they depict weapons in the game. The most important is that the secondary use is usually much less effective. A short sword is much more efficient at stabbing than slashing while a long sword is the opposite. You can stab with a long sword but that is not the most effective use of the weapon.
I do second using kukri and maybe adding stab. Very few things are DR piercing (raksashas are the only example I can think of).
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
I suggest the Wakizashi.
It's light (good for dual-wielding, as Legolas does), it's shaped the right way (more or less), deals 1d6 damage (slashing or piercing), has 18-20 threat range...
It's basically exactly what you're looking for. It's exotic, but if this is a home game and the character doesn't look excessively powerful, the GM might fudge it into martial proficiency.
I think I would reskin the wakasashi from ultimate combat for this purpose. Slightly more vicious (higher crit range) then a typical short sword, but harder to use effectively (exotic weapon)
Edit: Totally ninja'd by Jiggy
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
I think I would reskin the wakasashi from ultimate combat for this purpose. Slightly more vicious (higher crit range) then a typical short sword, but harder to use effectively (exotic weapon)
Edit: Totally ninja'd by Jiggy
Haha, yeah, when I first saw the wakizashi, my thought was immediately "Finally, a Legolas knife!" ;)
Vote for dagger.
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Vote for dagger.
If the EWP is too much for the wakizashi, then dagger is probably your next best bet. It's supposedly got a foot-long blade, but I think most people picture it shorter than that, which could be an issue. ;)
On the other hand, if traits are allowed, River Rat will give you +1 damage with daggers, and it could be argued that 1d4+1 is better that 1d6 (assuming the same STR mod either way).
So yeah, wakizashi if practical, dagger otherwise.
Making a Legolas-type character for my cousin.
He wants it to use long knives as backup weapons.But what weapon would be considered as long knives in stats?
Are you the ref? If so then just give him:
Elven Long Knife, Dam: 1d6, Crit: 19-20 / x2, Range 10', Damage: P/S, Martial Weapon
If he plays an elf he will even get the proficiency free since it is an 'Elf' weapon.
Seriously, long knives are just short swords on the low end of the weight scale. It was one of the reasons that elves originally had them as a free proficiency in original D&D.
If your not the ref then just give him short swords but stipulate they are elven made and styled. Same thing.
Daggers are perfectly good for this. No need for exotic weapons. Daggers come in a wide range of shapes, but a typical dagger has a blade about a foot long. Daggers balanced for throwing are commonplace. No reason a standard dagger wouldn't fill this need just fine.
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Daggers are perfectly good for this. No need for exotic weapons. Daggers come in a wide range of shapes, but a typical dagger has a blade about a foot long. Daggers balanced for throwing are commonplace. No reason a standard dagger wouldn't fill this need just fine.
I don't know about you, but I always picture the dagger having about a 5-inch blade, instead of the listed 12 inches. Dunno why. So if it were me, I'd feel hesitant to go that route, just for my own unconscious flavoring of it. :P YMMV.
I don't know about you, but I always picture the dagger having about a 5-inch blade, instead of the listed 12 inches. Dunno why. So if it were me, I'd feel hesitant to go that route, just for my own unconscious flavoring of it. :P YMMV.
Five inch blade? Seriously?
My Buck pocket knife has a five inch blade.
I've got hunting knives with 12 inch blades. Hell I've got a STONE knife with a 12" blade...
Five inch blade? You think that's going to go through someone's armor?
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hey, what I picture doesn't always match what I know.
Not only do I imagine short-bladed daggers, but when I imagine them being used, I see Knife Master d8's popping out of the victim like rupees from a hylian bush.
There are a lot of bladed weapons which in real life are quite capable of both piercing and slashing which have only one of those types of damage in pathfinder: Short Sword, Long Sword, Halberd, Punching Dagger, Great Sword, Bastard Sword, and I am sure there are some I am missing. Basically, I don't see why you should alter the mechanics of a weapon because in a movie the weapon you want to depict is used a little differently. He should have a short-sword, don't change its mechanics. When have you ever imagined a short-sword that can not slash? Well, according to game mechanics it is a piercing weapon only. So what? It is just mechanics for the purpose of game balance, and is not supposed to realistically depict the weapon's use in real life.
I think the reason the short sword is assigned a Piercing damage type only is because it is based on the Roman gladius, which was the backup weapon of the Roman legions. Legionnaires were trained to use it while hiding behind tower shields, waiting for an opportunity to stab an opponent's vitals. It was the equivalent of Muhammed Ali's 'Rope-A-Dope': wear your opponent down with a powerful defense, then lash out when he was too worn out to really defend himself.
Personally, I have felt that a feat that negates the tower shield's penalty to hit, but for piercing weapons only, would be a great way to simulate the Roman legionnaire's advanced combat training. All of their primary weapons (pilum, long spear, and gladius) were used to stab, not to slash.
|
Elven Long Knife, Dam: 1d6, Crit: 19-20 / x2, Range 10', Damage: P/S, Martial Weapon
If he plays an elf he will even get the proficiency free since it is an 'Elf' weapon.
Seriously, long knives are just short swords on the low end of the weight scale. It was one of the reasons that elves originally had them as a free proficiency in original D&D.
If your not the ref then just give him short swords but stipulate they are elven made and styled. Same thing.
I think this is what I'm looking for. Thanks!
I'm avoiding the daggers as I the word "daggers" do invoke images of pocket and pen knives. I know they are suppose to be much longer then that, but I think me and my cousins do feel that Dagger = Small Knife.
BTW, the fact that Short Swords don't have Slash damage is just so... weird...
Elven Long Knife, Dam: 1d6, Crit: 19-20 / x2, Range 10', Damage: P/S, Martial Weapon
These are the stats for the Drow Long Knives from Eberron.
Vote for dagger.
Add another vote for dagger. No need to reach for some exotic solution for what is a very basic weapon.
Adamantite Katana
Daggers are probably <1'
The blade of a Pugio is 7"-11". If this is not a dagger I'm not sure what is.But daggers are throwing weapons. My brother-in-law has a set of throwing knives. Blade length is closer to 4" than 12".
Further evidence for short daggers comes from the Knife, butterfly in Adventurer's Armory. It has identical stats to the dagger apart from being more expensive, not throwable, and having a bonus to concealment. A balisong is a little less than a foot long when opened, with a blade by definition less than half that length.
This is one of those things that can be argued about forever. Different cultures, different weapons, different protective armor, different standards. My 2 cp:
Daggers aren't typically designed as throwing weapons... and I wouldn't call anything with a 4" blade a dagger in the classic sense. Most daggers are designed as close combat weapons. Slash and thrust. Generally sturdier and larger than a knife and having a guard. Typically double edged in European usage although different cultures used either single or double edged ones. I suspect the modern definition of dagger includes smaller weapons than an armor wearing culture would have considered appropriate. Look at medieval daggers and you'll see what I mean. Be a bit annoying to slide the point through the armor and padding only to find out you don't have enough blade to reach the vitals...
The Pugio is the standard Roman military dagger. A pretty sturdy weapon iirc.
The Kukri is considered a dagger and that's a pretty hefty weapon. The Tanto would be the Japanese dagger. I'd put the Pugio and the standard medieval dagger in this same broad classification. And I'd say they were a lot more lethal than a weapon with a 4" blade. Ymmv.
Daggers aren't typically designed as throwing weapons... and I wouldn't call anything with a 4" blade a dagger in the classic sense.
Then am I hallucinating when I see a 10' range increment in the dagger line of the weapons table? Because I think I see a range increment. It wouldn't be the first weapon D&D screwed up, but 1d4 (19-20 x2) stats are used for a <6" balisong and the dagger mechanically represents something that can be thrown as a simple weapon. The fluff does not match the mechanics.
Primarily designed for close combat doesn't mean they can't be thrown in a pinch. It's not their primary function. The typical double edged tapered dagger can be but it's not the best weapon you could throw. A throwing knife is designed and balanced for that purpose. The last thing most people who are reduced to a secondary / backup weapon like a dagger want to do is disarm themselves. If you're carrying more than one it's probable that you're planning on two weapon fighting or you're carrying throwing weapons. The distinction was never clearly made in D&D, And yeah, weapon accuracy is not a strong suite of D&D. They have stats for far too many weapons that are different in name only for no real reason and don't have some basic weapons which should be distinguished from others. It's kind of like the polearm fetish in 1st edition AD&D, Every minor variation in history (often distinguished primarily by names in different languages) had it's own stats when you could have reduced it to 4 or so basic models by form and function.
Again, my 2cp.
There was a Drow Long Knife from Eberron. It was essentially a short sword that you could throw, but if you had Exotic Weapon Pro, you could treat it as a dagger for Weapon Focus/Weapon Spec.
For your purposes, I would make the following changes to it:
Exotic Light Weapon
Name: Elven Long Knife
Crit: 18-20/x2
Type: S or P
If have Exotic Weapon Pro feat: Treat as short sword or dagger for the purpose of class features and feats.