Bodhizen |
Bodhizen wrote:any chance there will be a section on antipaladin cruelties?Friends and fans, the Guide is in the process of getting an update.
Best wishes!
I don't see why it's explicitly necessary. They're good and bad for much the same reason that paladin mercies are good and bad.
Hell's Messenger |
Keltorus wrote:I don't see why it's explicitly necessary. They're good and bad for much the same reason that paladin mercies are good and bad.Bodhizen wrote:any chance there will be a section on antipaladin cruelties?Friends and fans, the Guide is in the process of getting an update.
Best wishes!
I was just hoping for your opinions on them... and I guess I got it.
:DUnArcaneElection |
Tortured Crusader from Horror Adventures is useful if you are Charisma-challenged, and while the tradeoffs are mostly not great (the skill boost is nice, but on the other hand Alone in the Dark is painful if your party actually needs your Lay on Hands), the Second Chance ability could save your life, although the once per day limit really hurts. I'd be inclined to skip the Martyr from the same book though.
For a Dex-based Paladin, if you don't want to dip Swashbuckler or Unchained Rogue, Virtuous Bravo from Heroes of the High Court is worth a look, although losing Mercy and Spellcasting really hurts.
Smite Neutral |
Does anyone have any experience/opinions of the dread vanguard antipaladin archetype?
At first glance, it seems worth it. With at least two other bodies nearby, beacon of evil seems more powerful than anything the antipaladin spell list could muster, save animate dead, but most GMs (mine included) modify/ban that. While there are a few gems on the antipaladin spell list, they are all attainable with a wand and umd if need be, or a ring of minor spell storing, or a caster in the party. Giving up casting also frees up a trait, as magical knack is no longer mandatory.
Does anyone see any reason not to give up antipaladin spell list for the dread vanguard archetype?
Bodhizen |
Does anyone have any experience/opinions of the dread vanguard antipaladin archetype?
At first glance, it seems worth it. With at least two other bodies nearby, beacon of evil seems more powerful than anything the antipaladin spell list could muster, save animate dead, but most GMs (mine included) modify/ban that. While there are a few gems on the antipaladin spell list, they are all attainable with a wand and umd if need be, or a ring of minor spell storing, or a caster in the party. Giving up casting also frees up a trait, as magical knack is no longer mandatory.
Does anyone see any reason not to give up antipaladin spell list for the dread vanguard archetype?
Magical knack has never been mandatory.
So, here's my opinion on the Dread Vanguard Archetype.
Beacon of Evil is a pretty awesome ability set, but virtually all of it can be duplicated with spells (except for the fast healing), and the antipaladin loses the flexibility that spells offer. It's a tough sell on that ability alone. Dark Emissary is also nice, but it comes online later and is less likely to see utility than the Aura of Sin, particularly since you're not necessarily in control of whether or not you can stay at any site that you create with the Dark Emissary ability.
All in all, it's difficult to say whether it's optimal or not, but I lean toward not because your abilities are far less flexible and depend a lot upon both allies and location, which aren't always the antipaladin's forte, nor are those factors always under the antipaladin's control.
Best wishes!
Smite Neutral |
Magical knack has never been mandatory.
So, here's my opinion on the Dread Vanguard Archetype.
Beacon of Evil is a pretty awesome ability set, but virtually all of it can be duplicated with spells (except for the fast healing), and the antipaladin loses the flexibility that spells offer. It's a tough sell on that ability alone. Dark Emissary is also nice, but it comes online later and is less likely to see utility than the Aura of Sin, particularly since you're not necessarily in control of whether or not you can stay at any site that you create with the Dark Emissary ability.
All in all, it's difficult to say whether it's optimal or not, but I lean toward not because your abilities are far less flexible and depend a lot upon both allies and location, which aren't always the antipaladin's forte, nor are those factors always under the antipaladin's control.
Best wishes!
Thanks for your input! A lot of great observations that I hadn't thought of. A lot of half-casting builds don't get as much use out of magical knack, the flexibility that spellcasting offers is extremely important, and beacon of evil is very dependent on the party.
I agree that in general beacon of evil's effects can easily be duplicated (and exceeded) through spellcasting, but I will add that in the right party (an unusual one), it can worth it. A mass buff of that scale can be devastating with help from a brood summoner, a necromancer, or a large party that attacks often, especially when the buff scales at level 12. Additionally, aura of sin is actually a part of the beacon's effects (extended to 30 ft as well!).
That said, using beacon properly means playing well with others, which isnt always possible for an antipaladin (as bodhizen pointed out). Also, there are certain antipaladin spells that are just too important to lose. If your GM allows animate dead, for example, dread vanguard becomes far less attractive.
Bodhizen |
Thanks for your input! A lot of great observations that I hadn't thought of. A lot of half-casting builds don't get as much use out of magical knack, the flexibility that spellcasting offers is extremely important, and beacon of evil is very dependent on the party.
I agree that in general beacon of evil's effects can easily be duplicated (and exceeded) through spellcasting, but I will add that in the right party (an unusual one), it can worth it. A mass buff of that scale can be devastating with help from a brood summoner, a necromancer, or a large party that attacks often, especially when the buff scales at level 12. Additionally, aura of sin is actually a part of the beacon's effects (extended to 30 ft as well!).
That said, using beacon properly means playing well with others, which isnt always possible for an antipaladin (as bodhizen pointed out). Also, there are certain antipaladin spells that are just too important to lose. If your GM allows animate dead, for example, dread vanguard becomes far less attractive.
Also consider this:
The "mass buff" from the Beacon of Evil is mostly a morale bonus (which doesn't stack with other morale bonuses). If it had been, say, a profane bonus, it would be more attractive, because there are fewer ways to gain profane bonuses than there are ways to gain morale bonuses. Unfortunately, chaotic evil and "team player" don't exactly mesh well, so the Beacon of Evil may not benefit the Dread Vanguard nearly as much as it would if it were an ability of a neutral evil or lawful evil character.
Now the default antipaladin gains access to animate dead (unless the GM specifically forbids it) at 11th level per rules as written, so the default antipaladin can gain his own personal minions that he doesn't have to worry about working with long-term. It's probably going to be easier than working with a party of villains, but I have the feeling that the Dread Vanguard archetype was written more with NPCs in mind, given its reliance on location and allies.
lil_literalist |
By the way, when I try to look at the guide, I get this error message. I've only tried this on Chrome.
Reduxist |
Is it just me or does the Rough Rampager sound like it could have a good Bleeding Critical focused build? Get a bunch of Two-Weapon Fighting feats, maybe some keen or conductive kukris, and you'd be all set.
Also, have you thought about Deific/Demonic Obedience or just deity selection in general? A lot of Demon Lords have a bunch of nice abilities, namely Mazmezz, Shax and Shivaska.
Bodhizen |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Is it just me or does the Rough Rampager sound like it could have a good Bleeding Critical focused build? Get a bunch of Two-Weapon Fighting feats, maybe some keen or conductive kukris, and you'd be all set.
The Rampager Antipaladin archetype is more of a niche archetype. While it's great that you can cause bleed damage, your auras are still only limited to 10 feet. Even with spells to extend your aura, you can only get 20 feet on this ability, which is useless against things that do not bleed, or enemies that can overcome caster level checks to heal their allies. Giving up that Aura of Despair is a bitter pill to swallow. Sure, you can grab feats or weapons to make it more effective, but it's narrower in scope and utility than the standard antipaladin. Your GM could easily throw lots of undead, elementals, constructs, oozes, and so forth at you, and you now have two completely useless auras (blood and putrefaction) and one that's not wonderful, as healers are probably going to overcome it anyway.
Also, have you thought about Deific/Demonic Obedience or just deity selection in general? A lot of Demon Lords have a bunch of nice abilities, namely Mazmezz, Shax and Shivaska.
I did think about them, but mostly, they didn't particularly "wow" me. Plus, the prep-time in engaging the obedience for an hour could be problematic, particularly if you're in a time-crunch. Most of the boon effects are minor things, though some of them do have some utility. The only downside is that the really good ones you only get to use once a day, and your favored weapons suck for those deities (which is a consideration, as the best martial weapon you're likely to get without burning a feat on it is probably the scimitar; not a poor weapon). Exalted boons for paladins or antipaladins generally aren't fantastic, and the only ones I'd consider from the core deities are:
- Iomedae's Just Ally
- Norgorber's Virulent Ally
- Rovagug's Apocalyptic Ally
- Sarenrae's Angelic Ally
- Shelyn's Plumed Blade
- Torag's Hammerfist Ally
- Urgathoa's Ally from the Grave
- Zon-Kuthon's Fleshrending Ally
As for demon lords, there's a lot to choose from. I'd consider taking boons from Andirifkhu, Flauros, Gogunta, Haagenti, Lozeri, Mazmezz, Nocticula, Orcus, Shax, Shivaska, Yhidothrus, and Zevgavizeb. For empyreal lords, I'd consider boons from Olheon, Ragathiel, or Tanagaar.
Essentially, they are worth a feat, but you have to make sure that you have time to perform your obedience or you gain no benefit.
Best wishes!
Bodhizen |
It's probably beating a dead-by-a-month old horse, but I neglected to mention the Diverse Obedience feat. You can pick your boons and access them two levels earlier.
There's also the Celestial Obedience feat for empyreal lords.
The problem with Diverse Obedience is that you're burning yet another feat for the same benefits, just a couple of levels earlier. Paladins and antipaladins must be judicious with their feat choices, so burning one on a benefit you'll get later on just doesn't seem optimal.
Reduxist |
Reduxist wrote:The problem with Diverse Obedience is that you're burning yet another feat for the same benefits, just a couple of levels earlier. Paladins and antipaladins must be judicious with their feat choices, so burning one on a benefit you'll get later on just doesn't seem optimal.It's probably beating a dead-by-a-month old horse, but I neglected to mention the Diverse Obedience feat. You can pick your boons and access them two levels earlier.
There's also the Celestial Obedience feat for empyreal lords.
But you also don't have to enter a prestige class that could delay or even prevent you from gaining certain abilities. Sure, you lose a feat anyways, but it could be a better expenditure than Weapon Focus or Skill Focus.
UnArcaneElection |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The link in the opening post leads to a link thats not working (for me). Is the guide moved?
It has been moved at least 2 times. Try this link. Also, if you go to the Zenith Games Guide to the Guides, it is linked from there.
UnArcaneElection |
Just had a thought: Fairly early in the thread you had some thought of putting in a word about Favored Class Bonuses around the time of version 4.0 of the guide. Any update on that?
Looking back over the Paizo Favored Class Bonuses (on the Archives of Nethys Paladin Page and the www.d20pfsrd.com Paladin page (excluding 3rd party material), some of them are pretty decent.
- The Aasimar FCB would be nice, but progresses too slowly.
- The Drow FCB is too situational, unless Paizo comes out with a Nidal AP (which would be cool, but this FCB might be too situational even for that).
- Both Dwarf FCBs are too situational, unless you are somehow the stand-in for the Wizard in your party and pick the one from Horror Adventures.
- The Elf, Gnome, and Halfling FCBs give you +1/2 hit point per level of Lay On Hands, which is pretty good.
- The Fetchling FCB is rather situational and progresses slowly (+1/4 per level), but might be worthwhile if you are in a really fear-heavy campaign. Caution: Many archetypes trade out some or all of the relevant auras.
- The Half-Elf FCB is effectively only 1 improvement per 5 levels (+1 foot radius per level but only takes effect in multiples of 5), which I would normally consider to be too slow to be worth getting, but in this case it is improving the radius of all those auras that protect the party but also serve as a big "Plant your favorite AoE spell here" sign if your enemies know what you are. If you take this far enough, you can exceed the radius of some of those spells unless they get Widen Spell (which isn't cheap). How far is far enough for you to get results taking the Half-Elf Favored Class Bonus continuously depends upon the spell, but ranges from 5th through 15th level for some common spells. Also, 10 foot radius is awfully cramped for your auras if you have mounted, Enlarged, or highly mobile allies. Caution: Many archetypes trade out some or all of these auras.
- The Half-Orc FCB would be good on somebody who can spare the feats to go Critical Fishing, except that they can't Smite Evil unless they went VMC Paladin (which eats 5 feats rather inefficiently), and you can Smite Evil but probably can't afford the feats (maybe you could on some kind of Castigator build).
- The Human FCB scales slowly compared to how fast elemental damage will scale, especially if you spread it around to the different types of elemental damage.
- The Nagagi FCB might be good if you are in a lot of long fights at low levels, but will probably become redundant by mid levels unless you have a lot of fights in quick succession.
- The Oread FCB is a decent boost to the strength of your auras. Being an Oread Paladin, not so much. And remember that auras at their default size also serve as a big "Plant your favorite AoE spell here" sign to enemies who know what you are. Caution: Many archetypes trade out some or all of these auras.
- The Tiefling FCB that gives you +1 hit point per level of Lay on Hands (but on yourself only) is very good if you arrange to soak much of the damage for the party (which is often what you want to do anyway).
- The Wayang FCB is like a weaker version of the Elf, Gnome, and Halfling FCBs, except that it also improves Channel Energy a bit as well as Lay On Hands, so it's not a total loss.
- The Wyvaran FCB is too situational.
Just noticed a set of minor errors in the guide: The Aasimar entries in the various builds seem to have been copied from the Archer Paladin build without being fully adjusted to the ones they were copied to (they even say "Archer Paladin" in them).
* * * * * * * *
Also, why does Combat Medic get more emphasis on Dexterity than Strength? You can't really afford the feats to go Finesse (they aren't listed anyway) unless you dip Swashbuckler (which delays your Combat Medic abilities) or use the Virtuous Bravo archetype (which trades out the Combat Medic abilities).
Alni |
Alni wrote:The link in the opening post leads to a link thats not working (for me). Is the guide moved?It has been moved at least 2 times. Try this link. Also, if you go to the Zenith Games Guide to the Guides, it is linked from there.
Thank you that works!
Bodhizen |
Just had a thought: Fairly early in the thread you had some thought of putting in a word about Favored Class Bonuses around the time of version 4.0 of the guide. Any update on that?
There is an update coming to the Guide, and I'm thinking about where I'd place these, but I'm not sure if I'm going to include them just yet. Most of what you posted (below) is a good reason why, to be perfectly honest.
Looking back over the Paizo Favored Class Bonuses (on the Archives of Nethys Paladin Page and the www.d20pfsrd.com Paladin page (excluding 3rd party material), some of them are pretty decent.
- The Aasimar FCB would be nice, but progresses too slowly.
- The Drow FCB is too situational, unless Paizo comes out with a Nidal AP (which would be cool, but this FCB might be too situational even for that).
- Both Dwarf FCBs are too situational, unless you are somehow the stand-in for the Wizard in your party and pick the one from Horror Adventures.
- The Elf, Gnome, and Halfling FCBs give you +1/2 hit point per level of Lay On Hands, which is pretty good.
- The Fetchling FCB is rather situational and progresses slowly (+1/4 per level), but might be worthwhile if you are in a really fear-heavy campaign. Caution: Many archetypes trade out some or all of the relevant auras.
- The Half-Elf FCB is effectively only 1 improvement per 5 levels (+1 foot radius per level but only takes effect in multiples of 5), which I would normally consider to be too slow to be worth getting, but in this case it is improving the radius of all those auras that protect the party but also serve as a big "Plant your favorite AoE spell here" sign if your enemies know what you are. If you take this far enough, you can exceed the radius of some of those spells unless they get Widen Spell (which isn't cheap). How far is far enough for you to get results taking the Half-Elf Favored Class Bonus continuously depends upon the spell, but ranges from 5th through 15th level for some common spells. Also, 10 foot radius is awfully cramped for your auras if you have mounted, Enlarged, or highly mobile allies. Caution: Many archetypes trade out some or all of these auras.
- The Half-Orc FCB would be good on somebody who can spare the feats to go Critical Fishing, except that they can't Smite Evil unless they went VMC Paladin (which eats 5 feats rather inefficiently), and you can Smite Evil but probably can't afford the feats (maybe you could on some kind of Castigator build).
- The Human FCB scales slowly compared to how fast elemental damage will scale, especially if you spread it around to the different types of elemental damage.
- The Nagaji FCB might be good if you are in a lot of long fights at low levels, but will probably become redundant by mid levels unless you have a lot of fights in quick succession.
- The Oread FCB is a decent boost to the strength of your auras. Being an Oread Paladin, not so much. And remember that auras at their default size also serve as a big "Plant your favorite AoE spell here" sign to enemies who know what you are. Caution: Many archetypes trade out some or all of these auras.
- The Tiefling FCB that gives you +1 hit point per level of Lay on Hands (but on yourself only) is very good if you arrange to soak much of the damage for the party (which is often what you want to do anyway).
- The Wayang FCB is like a weaker version of the Elf, Gnome, and Halfling FCBs, except that it also improves Channel Energy a bit as well as Lay On Hands, so it's not a total loss.
- The Wyvaran FCB is too situational.
- Aasimar: Their favored class bonus would be fantastic, if it didn't go at 1/6 progression. The fact that you'll only get a +3 bonus to your saves, which are already some of the best in the game already, by the time you hit 18th level means that you're giving up 18 hit points or skill points by that point, and paladins are skill point poor.
- Drow: I agree, far too situational.
- Dwarf: Agreed, too situational.
- Elf: Decent, but really only great for the Combat Medic. Sure, every paladin could use a bit more healing, but I am going to come back to that skill poor point... Is it really worth it to be even more useless outside of combat?
- Fetchling: Agreed, too situational.
- Gnome: My comments are the same as those for the elf.
- Halfling: My comments are the same as those for the elf.
- Half-Elf: This goes way too slowly. Let's say that you've got your Aura of Courage up, and you cast Widen Auras, you're talking the difference between a 20 foot aura and a 30 foot aura. Without the spell, you're talking an extra 5 feet at 8th level with this bonus, 10 feet with the spell. Exceeding spell ranges with your auras is problematic, since most area-of-effect spells are much bigger than your auras, even when expanded.
- Half-Orc: It's another situational use. If you don't roll a critical threat anyway, it doesn't do anything for you.
- Human: Agreed.
- Nagaji: This one's not too bad, but you're right. By mid-levels, you're probably winning the fights long before your divine bond wears off.
- Oread: Let us not forget that fear and charm spells are somewhat situational.
- Tiefling: Yeah, this is one of the better ones, but I come back to the fact that paladins are skill-poor...
- Wayang: True, but how often is the paladin channeling energy, since it uses two uses of lay on hands? Splash healing from channeling positive energy is only okay for paladins, unless you're the combat medic, in which case it's actually pretty decent, especially since you want to pick up Extra Channel. The big downside... You're a wayang, and that doesn't do too much for a paladin.
- Wyvaran: Agreed, too situational.
Just noticed a set of minor errors in the guide: The Aasimar entries in the various builds seem to have been copied from the Archer Paladin build without being fully adjusted to the ones they were copied to (they even say "Archer Paladin" in them).
Thanks for catching that! They're fixed for the next release.
Also, why does Combat Medic get more emphasis on Dexterity than Strength? You can't really afford the feats to go Finesse (they aren't listed anyway) unless you dip Swashbuckler (which delays your Combat Medic abilities) or use the Virtuous Bravo archetype (which trades out the Combat Medic abilities).
The Combat Medic is not intended to be the front-line warrior, so you need your Dexterity to avoid incoming damage as opposed to your Strength to crush your foes. Your focus is on healing, not damage dealing, and throwing yourself in front of hits is great for keeping your allies healthy.
Best wishes!
UnArcaneElection |
I somehow missed the spell Widen Auras -- that's a really good spell (and even PFS legal according to Archives of Nethys) . . . although it doesn't seem to be in version 4.0 of the guide (even tried manually scrolling down to find it in case the Google Drive/Docs Search function was just not working). Wonder if any magic items do the same thing. (Note: The 1st level of the Inheritor's Crusader prestige class, also PFS legal according to Archives of Nethys, does this for Aura of Courage but not the other auras, but you have to worship Iomedae to get into this)
Of course, the temptation would be to stick this on top of the Half-Elf Favored Class Bonus. By the time you can cast it yourself (as opposed to using a Scroll or something), at 7th level, the Half-Elf Favored Class Bonus has already (a couple of levels ago) gotten you to 15 feet radius, and Widen Auras would double that (since nothing in the text says that it doesn't stack or has diminishing returns) to 30 feet radius; at 10th level, this takes you from 20 feet radius to 40 feet radius, which is some serious breathing room; at 15th level, this takes you from 25 feet radius to 50 feet radius, which exceeds even the radius of a Widened Fireball; at 20th level (assuming you ever get there), this takes you from 30 feet radius to 60 feet radius.
x_Gabriel_x |
Most likely not the most optimal build, but currently playing Hell's Vengeance and went with an unconventional build for my Anti-Paladin. Two-Weapon Fighting, and looking for Cornugon Smash at 7th, currently have Two-Weapon Fighting and Power Attack, using a Long/shortsword combo. Just hit lvl 5 and went dump happy with stats to make up for needing 3 big stats.
Pitborn Tiefling 16str 16dex 14con 7 int/wis 17cha, pumping up intimidate, taking fcb in skills so I atleast get 2 a lvl.
My current path for feats laid out, in order are:
Two-Weapon Fighting
Power Attack
Furious Focus?
Cornugon Smash
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Vile Leadership(Possibly)
Dreadful Carnage
Suffering a -4hit for TWF/PA can hurt, but we have 4 total melee, and I decided to take the Fiendish Servant instead of the weapon boon, so 4 possible flanking buddies to negate the TWF penalty... I figure since majority of what we'll fight in this campaign will be good, my smite good will make up for the other penalties when it matters on bosses.
Furious Focus is a pre-req for Dreadful Carnage, but wondering if thats the best way to go? Cornugon smash is set in stone, so I should build around that I feel, and come 11th I'd easily have a 20+ Intimidate that affects anything I hit.. including those pesky Paladins..
How would you go about building, ignoring stats since they cant be changed, a Two-Weapon Fighting, Cornugon Smash build for Anti-Paladin in regards to feats?
Bodhizen |
I somehow missed the spell Widen Auras -- that's a really good spell (and even PFS legal according to Archives of Nethys) . . . although it doesn't seem to be in version 4.0 of the guide (even tried manually scrolling down to find it in case the Google Drive/Docs Search function was just not working). Wonder if any magic items do the same thing. (Note: The 1st level of the Inheritor's Crusader prestige class, also PFS legal according to Archives of Nethys, does this for Aura of Courage but not the other auras, but you have to worship Iomedae to get into this)
Of course, the temptation would be to stick this on top of the Half-Elf Favored Class Bonus. By the time you can cast it yourself (as opposed to using a Scroll or something), at 7th level, the Half-Elf Favored Class Bonus has already (a couple of levels ago) gotten you to 15 feet radius, and Widen Auras would double that (since nothing in the text says that it doesn't stack or has diminishing returns) to 30 feet radius; at 10th level, this takes you from 20 feet radius to 40 feet radius, which is some serious breathing room; at 15th level, this takes you from 25 feet radius to 50 feet radius, which exceeds even the radius of a Widened Fireball; at 20th level (assuming you ever get there), this takes you from 30 feet radius to 60 feet radius.
Widen auras is something that wasn't in 4.0, but it will be in 5.0. The only downside to this increased aura is the sacrifice of skill points to get it, but it's still a fan-frickin'-tastic spell, and the Half-Elf favoured bonus is lookin' tasty despite the fact that you're giving up skill points.
Bodhizen |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Bodhi's Guide to the Optimal Paladin & Antipaladin has been updated to version 5.0.
Best wishes!
Trevor86 |
I'm a little confused on the rating of the 'Targeted' mercy. This thing has saved me so many times that I don't see how it could be rated as a subpar choice. it gives I.E. my level 13 paladin a semi-passive dc 24 willsave-required to attack him shield and he can use it after full attacking whenever he wants. Combining this with any other defensive buff such as a displacement scroll and you can walk into entire rooms by yourself without a problem. This things prevents more damage than the injured mercy could ever heal, for instance, and this is even ignoring the utility of placing it on allies by yourself or via the 'healing token' level 2 paladin spell as a reaction.
Bodhizen |
I'm sensing a question here, even though one wasn't asked.
A DC 24 Will save (which requires the Paladin to have a Charisma score of 26 at 13th level) isn't impossible for a 13th level character to overcome. Provided that your 13th level opponent has a +2 bonus to Will saves, the average character probably only needs to roll somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-12 to overcome the sanctuary effect. It only lasts for a round per level (and you should have it active before you need it unless you want to use up the swift action), and it's defeated by area-of-effect spells and the paladin's (or target's) inability to physically attack or cast attack spells while the targeted mercy is in effect without losing the benefit. Sure, you can walk into entire rooms by yourself and maybe you won't have a problem, but you're neutralized as an attacker.
Additionally, the healing token spell only benefits your allies with your targeted mercy if they're within range of your Lay on Hands ability, which is "touch". If they're not within range, you cannot make use of this benefit, which severely limits its utility when used in conjunction with that spell.
That's why it's "okay", rather than "good" or "excellent".
Best wishes!
jbusnengo |
Bodhizen, thanks for your excellent guide! I'm helping a newbie player put together his paladin, and this has been an invaluable resource. I especially like the role-playing advice and your warning against power-turtling. (I'll be the GM, so there's no need to worry about table variation here, as that's exactly how I plan to run the monsters.)
That said, there are a few things I've noted that you may want to address:
You describe the weapon of awe spell as "A modest damage bonus to your weapon, plus a shaken effect on a critical hit, which would be really good, except that a simple Will save can negate the shaken effect. Go for Inheritor’s Smite instead." The text of the spell, though, explicitly says that there isn't a save.
You describe the shield companion spell in a way that seems (at least to me) to imply that it can work on any ally: "Modest protective effects, but if your goal is to completely protect someone from hit point damage, this is the spell to take. This spell is excellent for a combat medic." The spell is explicitly limited, however, to functioning on your own mount/animal companion/familiar/eidolon. This may be a case of me misreading your language, though, rather than an actual oversight on your part.
Finally, have you considered adding material from Champions of Purity to the guide? Some of the spells look promising. Accept affliction certainly fits with the stand-in-the-way-of-harm strategy. The angelic aspect spells and archon's trumpet also look interesting, although the save on archon's trumpet is less than ideal.
Bodhizen |
Bodhizen, thanks for your excellent guide! I'm helping a newbie player put together his paladin, and this has been an invaluable resource. I especially like the role-playing advice and your warning against power-turtling. (I'll be the GM, so there's no need to worry about table variation here, as that's exactly how I plan to run the monsters.)
That said, there are a few things I've noted that you may want to address:
You describe the weapon of awe spell as "A modest damage bonus to your weapon, plus a shaken effect on a critical hit, which would be really good, except that a simple Will save can negate the shaken effect. Go for Inheritor’s Smite instead." The text of the spell, though, explicitly says that there isn't a save.
You describe the shield companion spell in a way that seems (at least to me) to imply that it can work on any ally: "Modest protective effects, but if your goal is to completely protect someone from hit point damage, this is the spell to take. This spell is excellent for a combat medic." The spell is explicitly limited, however, to functioning on your own mount/animal companion/familiar/eidolon. This may be a case of me misreading your language, though, rather than an actual oversight on your part.
Finally, have you considered adding material from Champions of Purity to the guide? Some of the spells look promising. Accept affliction certainly fits with the stand-in-the-way-of-harm strategy. The angelic aspect spells and archon's trumpet also look interesting, although the save on archon's trumpet is less than ideal.
Good evening, jbusnengo! I'm very glad that you're appreciating the Guide.
So, the weapon of awe spell is nice and all, and the weapon gets a Will save... And I'm a huge non-fan of "save-or-suck" spells (spells that do nothing upon a successful saving throw). I'm pretty sure that's a misreading on my part as for the effect of the spell. Excellent catch, thank you! As you can see, I've reviewed hundreds of spells, so sometimes things blur together.
Shield Companion is intended to imply that it shields your companion, not just anyone. I'll try to make that more clear in my Guide.
As for "have you considered" questions... This is no fault of your own, but I despise the implication that I haven't considered adding something into the Guide. There's a section on the Guide specifically to address that. As I'm sure you're aware, I've "considered" dozens of sources, and as I mentioned a bit earlier, I've reviewed hundreds of spells to give the most complete advise that I can give. Suffice it to say, I simply missed reviewing the spells in that book, and I do thank you (quite heartily and sincerely) for drawing my attention to that.
I can't say when I'll update the Guide again. I usually do so in December/January, but with Pathfinder 2.0 coming out, I may be working on a completely new Guide instead.
Once again, thank you for your interest in the Guide, and I sincerely hope that you find it to be of great use to your gaming table!
Side Note: I'm currently working on developing a setting alongside Deadmanwalking that will be compatible with Pathfinder 1.0 (I am considering the implications of making it fully compatible with Pathfinder 2.0, but as I don't have the Playtest yet, I cannot even begin to account for the changes). That's taking up the bulk of my writing time, and I hope that it is every bit as popular and useful to players as this Guide has been.
Best wishes!
UnArcaneElection |
If you're trying to get the version on Google Drive that is linked from the Zenith Games Guide to the Guides, that is still available, although Google Drive might have had a temporary hiccup when you tried to get to it.
If you're trying to get a version linked from an earlier part of this thread, that might be just an obsolete link.