I had a surprising even with a magus PC in the last game, and I wanted to talk about the experience.
The character is an 9th level magus with an 18 Int and Extra Arcane Pool, so he has 10 points in his arcane pool. His normal attack with his +1 Keen falcata is +9/+4 (+6 base, +1 Str, +1 enhancement, +1 Weapon Focus).
It's a 6-character group (oracle of life, universal wizard, alchemist/rogue, paladin, clever godling, and the magus), so I generally challenge them with fights that have 50% more monsters than their level would call for (since there are a lot of PCs), and that's worked well for 6 levels (we started at 3rd). In the last game, they were fighting 6 hill giants. Things went south for the players fast, and a few rounds in only 3 giants were down, and only the magus was left. He hadn't done much, but had cast haste on the group, and shield on himself with spell combat.
Then, he went nova.
One the next round of combat, he spend a point from his pool to add Flaming Burst and Shock to his weapon. His damage is now 1d8+2+2d6 (1d6 fire+1d6 electric) on a regular hit, and 3d8+9+2d6+2d10 on a critical hit (1d8+2, x3 critical multiplier, +3 killer trait, +1d6 fire, +1d6 electric, +2d10 fire burst), and his threat range is 17-20, so 1 in 5 shots fall into that range. Then he cast True Strike as part of spell combat, and used Power Attack and Combat Expertise. And then he did it the next round, and the next round, and...
The routine was spell recall (swift action, recall a prepared spell; True Strike), spell combat (2 attacks, -2 to attack), cast True Strike (+20 to one attack), cast defensively (take -4 to attack for +4 to concentration), Power Attack (-2 attack, +4 damage), Combat Expertise (-2 attack, +2 AC), fight defensively (-4 attack, +2 AC).
So every round, for ten rounds, he got one attack at +15 and one at -10, with no chance to miss his cast defensively, +4 AC, and +4 damage (3d8+21+2d6+2d10 on a critical hit). It took him all ten rounds, but he killed the remaining three hill giants without taking much damage himself.
Has anyone else run into the true-strike-recall-spell-spell-combat-rinse-repeat cycle? The other players cheered him on, and I'm glad to not have had an accidental TPK, but WOW was that surprisingly effective!
No big deal. He's now out for the rest of the day. It's effective, but then again so is any other nova.
... The routine was spell recall (swift action, recall a prepared spell; True Strike), spell combat (2 attacks, -2 to attack), cast True Strike (+20 to one attack), cast defensively (take -4 to attack for +4 to concentration), Power Attack (-2 attack, +4 damage), Combat Expertise (-2 attack, +2 AC), fight defensively (-4 attack, +2 AC)...
You know, I always thought spell combat was only for attack spells. I just looked at it again and it just says cast a spell. So it works. Not sure why I thought it was only for attack spells. {shrug} maybe cause of the name.
I'll have to remember this.
No big deal. He's now out for the rest of the day. It's effective, but then again so is any other nova.
Well, he's out of arcane pool points. he still has his base sword and, oh, say, lightning bolt and other 3rd-level and 2nd-level spells. And wands. And... let's just say he was actually in pretty good shape.
I've never seen a barbarian, wizard, or rogue nova like this. I was the ability to cast the same extremely effective 1st level spell 10 times... it just took me off guard.
Sure a sorcerer could do that by using higher-level spell slots, but there's no 1st level spell that would give them as much.
I'm not upset. I'm thrilled, in fact, that the player got clever and pulled it out. I love it when my players do that.
I was just curious if anyone else had seen this, and if there were any other spell recall loops I should be ready for.
Meanwhile the 9th level Barbarian (even semi-optimized) does more damage, in less time, and can do it pretty much all day (rage rounds help, but arent always required)
+15 to hit at level 9 is well..well below a Barb or fighter.
Keep in mind 3d8 (average 15.5) + 2d10 (average 11) + 2d6 (average 7) + 9 is only on average 42 damage or so. Go check the DPR olympics. Most 10th level applicants are getting 50+ damage per hit on normal attacks too.
It's really not far out of line for a damage dealing class, except that the fighter does it all day, and so does the barbarian.
edit: also, you say he also has his normal sword after, so he's ok? +9/+4 at 9th level is not going to hit a lot of CR appropriate ACs even half the time, and then he does 1d8+2 damage. Sure he has a few third level spells, but the wizard has what, 5th level spells? huge power difference.
I think the problem here is the normal fallacy. People assume 1d6 damage is better than 3-4 damage. It's not. Rolling lots of dice is more fun, but not often higher damage than flat bonii that get multiplied on crits.
His damage (when critting, 1/4 of the time) is on par with a fighter. Who's doing that damage twice a round, btw. your magus is not.
I had a surprising even with a magus PC in the last game, and I wanted to talk about the experience...It took him all ten rounds, but he killed the remaining three hill giants...
It's always pretty sweet when a player can pull off a save like that. Really makes for a memorable session.
I'll have to point this out to one of my magus players.
A decent sorcerer could have ended the fight much quicker with a couple charm persons, even with the +5 they get to save for having been threatened. Heck, with just burning hands a decent sorcerer would take them out in less than 10 rounds. (Probably closer to 4 if they're a blaster.)
A sorcerer wouldn't have lasted that long.
And not, I'm not saying this is the most optimized thing ever. My players don't really go for optimized builds. A wizard with a crossbow, fly, and greater invisibility could have killed them eventuyally -- though they likely would have gotten annoyed and coup-de-gras some PCs if there was just an arrow a roudn falling from the sky.
But it did *surprise* me, for a 2ndary fighter/2ndary spellcaster to suddenly do primary fighter damage for a solid minute.
So I was wondering if anyone else had run into any similar surprises.
The thing is, he wasnt doing primary fighter damage for a minute.
He was doing 1/2 of primary fighter damage when he crit, which was 1/4 of the time.
For funsies, I just spent about 10 minutes making a Fighter 5/Barb 4 in hero lab. 15 point buy. I gave him a +2 Falchion and Gloves of dueling as his ONLY magic items.
Feats included weapon focus/spec/imp critical Falchion, imp initiative, iron will, furious focus, power attack, cleave, and extra rage.
Took the No Escape and Reckless Abandon rage powers.
Wanna know the result? Attack of +22/+17 (possibly +22/+14 if it didnt calculate furious focus properly)
Damage was 2d4+28 15-20 crit threat range (same as your magus)
The barbarian has 18 rage rounds a day. Can choose to cleave to get 2 attacks at +20 instead of what I posted, and after 18 rounds are up, basically loses 8ish pts of damage. This is on average 32 pts of damage BEFORE critting. after crit, looking at 60 pts, more than half again what your magus does on average. and does it for longer.
This isnt even well optimized. it's just an example
edit: and I apologize, furious focus wasnt even counted by hero labs, so his attack routine is actually +25/+17, well and above your magus on his secondary attack, much less primary
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Magi novas. That's what they do. Spell Recall is probably their single best use of arcana pool. It gives them amazing lasting power or novas when needed.
6 hill giants against 6 PCs at level 9 shouldn't be a challenge for the players. They should easily wipe them out. Hill giants are 7 CR. The party should not have been in that position in the first place.
OP, your anecdote here makes me want to play a magus. That whole scenario just sounds like it would have a been an absolute blast to be a part of - either as the last standing character or even as one of the players whose character had dropped (just to cheer on the literal last man standing!)
I've not personally found anything like this, where a character can loop an ability as you describe it, but I wonder if a ninja could something similar with their tricks?
Regardless, it sounds like you ran a really fun and rewarding session for your group - which is the whole point of the game, so well done!
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OP, your anecdote here makes me want to play a magus. That whole scenario just sounds like it would have a been an absolute blast to be a part of - either as the last standing character or even as one of the players whose character had dropped (just to cheer on the literal last man standing!)
I've not personally found anything like this, where a character can loop an ability as you describe it, but I wonder if a ninja could something similar with their tricks?
Regardless, it sounds like you ran a really fun and rewarding session for your group - which is the whole point of the game, so well done!
Gunslingers can recharge their grit, and a few of them can recharge itself.
Samurais can recharge their resolve, but it's limited by number of challenges.
3.5's Tome of Battle: Book of the Nine Swords (ToB: Bo9S) had classes that can recharge their maneuvers.
Spell Recall is extremely good, and lets the magus be varied in memorizing spells, but have the repeated use per day as needed as well. I believe generally magus should be looking to do spell combat + spellstrike, and then recall their spells instead of powering up the sword or use magus arcana.
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OP, your anecdote here makes me want to play a magus. That whole scenario just sounds like it would have a been an absolute blast to be a part of - either as the last standing character or even as one of the players whose character had dropped (just to cheer on the literal last man standing!)
I've not personally found anything like this, where a character can loop an ability as you describe it, but I wonder if a ninja could something similar with their tricks?
Regardless, it sounds like you ran a really fun and rewarding session for your group - which is the whole point of the game, so well done!
Gunslingers can recharge their grit, and a few of them can recharge itself.
Samurais can recharge their resolve, but it's limited by number of challenges.
3.5's Tome of Battle: Book of the Nine Swords (ToB: Bo9S) had classes that can recharge their maneuvers.
Spell Recall is extremely good, and lets the magus be varied in memorizing spells, but have the repeated use per day as needed as well. I believe generally magus should be looking to do spell combat + spellstrike, and then recall their spells instead of powering up the sword or use magus arcana.
powering up the sword is way too good to not do. but the feat that lets you recall a spell if you disrupt a spell caster is friggen sweed