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We've got Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat on our shelves, and I can't help but be reminded of the 3.5 books Complete Arcane and Complete Warrior, respectively, when I look at them. It got me thinking of what else is there to cover, and then I see Complete Adventurer sitting up there, the book for skill-hungry characters.
So perhaps an Ultimate Tactics or Ultimate Adventuring book is in order! Things I wouldn't mind seeing, aside from any new base classes and archetypes that usually front these books, are:
- Similar to how bards got masterpieces, monks got vows, and wizards got arcane discoveries (all abilities that usually take the place of feats and bonus feats rather than specific class features), I'd like to see the old skill tricks from Complete Scoundrel get revived in the form of a similar system unique to rogues, where rogues can spend a couple of skill points every level to gain a skill trick they qualify for, like a mini-feat. Making this unique to rogues would help ease some people's cries that the ninja has made the rogue obsolete, and would solidify the Rogue again as the skill-iest over its combat-focused alternate class. This would also be a good opportunity to throw in the unfortunately absent Advanced Ninja Trick rogue talent from Ultimate Combat.
- Some new archetypes specific to the alternate classes. Antipaladin's already got a couple, but Ninja and Samurai could use some love. Or maybe some new rules saying that if an archetype replaces class features that both the core class and the alternate class share, the alternate class may take it as well.
- Skill combo rules. These would be advanced skill checks that involve one DC against two or more separate skill checks of different skills. For example, needing to make an Appraise/Craft/Bluff combination check in order to create an exact, worthless replica of the crown jewels to be swapped out with the real ones during an ambitious heist.
- New uses for skills. Bringing back old favorites like Diplomacy for haggling and Heal for forensics. Perhaps some new ones like Acrobatics for rope-swinging combat, since Use Rope is gone.
- A large list of specific Profession and Craft skills, each one detailing a minor but concrete synergy bonus they'd confer for possessing them, possibly increasing with the amount of ranks in them. This would be a good way to reward people that choose these usually suboptimal "NPC job" skills for their adventuring PC. One could even go so far as introducing a new type of bonus, such as a trade bonus or vocation bonus (whatever you'd wanna call it). Examples include ones like a +2 vocation bonus to Heal checks for every 4 ranks you possess in Profession (physician), to a +1 vocation bonus on critical hit confirmation rolls against vermin for every 4 ranks you possess in Profession (dungsweeper).
- Optional rules for stealth-based combat. Introducing some new mechanic that measures how aware an opponent is that would allow our sneaky AND still very much martial characters to get the drop on them before combat even begins when they're looking the other way (sneaking up from behind and breaking necks, sleeper holds, etc.)
- And while we're on the subject of stealth, how about some rules for operating at nighttime. As far as I know the only clue we have as to what kind of vision limitations there are at night is in the description of low-light vision, where it basically seems to suggest that at night the stars and moon(s) create a wide blanket of shadowy illumination over everything.
Any other ideas?
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I'm hoping for an "ultimate subsystems" (which will hopefully have a much better name) that would compile, update and expand on the various subsystems that Paizo has done, as well as adding additional ones:
- Spirits (as an update to the Haunt rules already in the Gamemastery Guide)
- Kingdom/city building
- Mass combat
- Trust/Notoriety rules that help guide interactions with an entire town or organization, and trigger events.
- Romance rules
- Caravan rules
- Ship/fleet management rules (probably a variant of the caravan rules)
- Ship to ship combat allowing all PCs to take part in a role
- Running a business rules
- and more!
- Romance rules
Please no.
- Romance rulesPlease no.
You say no, I say Yes.
Though it could also be call a courtship subsystem.|
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I'm hoping for an "ultimate subsystems" (which will hopefully have a much better name) that would compile, update and expand on the various subsystems that Paizo has done, as well as adding additional ones:
- Spirits (as an update to the Haunt rules already in the Gamemastery Guide)
- Kingdom/city building
- Mass combat
- Trust/Notoriety rules that help guide interactions with an entire town or organization, and trigger events.
- Romance rules
- Caravan rules
- Ship/fleet management rules (probably a variant of the caravan rules)
- Ship to ship combat allowing all PCs to take part in a role
- Running a business rules
- and more!
Along those lines maybe an "Ultimate Prestige (Classes)" book. Something that brings them all together and updates any that were released under 3.5 rules. Maybe one or two more as well.
I'd also say no to the romance rules. I feel that having to roll a d20 to try and win the heart of a fellow PC or an NPC kind of takes away the magic of it. It goes from "Darling, I can't live my life without you" to "If I can roll my diplomacy above a DC 20, I'll get the queen to be my wife for sure!"
Of course, I'm of the opinion that roleplaying should be rules light and more in the hands of the GM and Players.
I wouldn't want to see the kingdom building and mass combat reprinted again since I already have Kingmaker and at least it'd make Ultimate Adventurer worth less to me.
I do like the idea of expanding skills and that'd really appeal to me the most.
Ultimate Craft
A book for skills, skill monkeys, crafting and games of intrigue. Not only "craft" as in the skill, but craftiness as in guile. This is a book designed to add a whole new dimension to Pathfinder, turning it from a combat and adventure game into a ruthless thinker's game.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I for one could use a rest from classes. Ultimate Equipment sounds like what I want right now.
I like the idea of an 'ultimate subsets' either to make the corner case rules more comprehensive or to look at options for 'Pathfinder Revised'
Ultimate Rituals would be nice, as would a Ultimate Crafting. (Now an UC I could see a PC/NPC class that is 'super crafter') None of those three really lend themselves to PFS though.
For an Ultimate Rituals:
- Rules for rituals that emulate popular spells 1-9
- Ways for non-casters to learn/use Rituals.
- Countering Rituals (besides the obvious kill the caster version)
- Guidelines on how Rituals might change a campaign.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Why do we need this? Next thing I'll see is someone proposing a mechanic for saying hello or good night.- Romance rulesPlease no.You say no, I say Yes.
Though it could also be call a courtship subsystem.
Because you might want to run a romantic game where the players are a bit awkward at first?
Because you might have a player playing a 'Captain Jack' type and the GM is uncomfortable?
Because you're running an intrigue game and need a non-partial way of determing if NPC Ambassador Trentino will woo NPC Mrs Teasdale away from PC Rufus T Firefly?
I would love something like this. While I certainly don't want Paizo to repeat WotC and publish infinite classes and prestige classes (so much redundancy!), I would like one more dedicated stealth/skill class. Maybe another rogue alternate class, but preferably something altogether new. I think pathfinder has room for 1 or 2 more full base classes, but that's it.
Plus some rules about stuff mentioned in the OP, like sneaking around and snapping guards necks to see how many you can take out in an area before combat really begins. I'm thinking MGS style stealth.
And generally more uses for skills. I love skills. But I would prefer not to reintroduce skill tricks. I think those should just be handled by normal, but difficult, skill checks.
Ninjas/samurais already get a lot of love in 3P publishings, and homebrew contents.
Oh, and alternate classes can already take archetypes from the class they are based on, since they themselves are only glorified archetypes.
Then why is there an anti-paladin archetype in Ultimate Combat (Knight of The Sepulcher)
And I would like to see some archetypes for the Ninja and Samurai, as not all rogue archetypes can be used by the Ninja.
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Let's see, maybe because the paladin doesn't have the "Smite Good" nor "Cruelty" class features ?
It's been said over and over, if you play an alternate class and there is an archetype for the base class that changes class features you GET - and only class features you still possess with the alternate class - then you can stack both alternate class and archetype, like per the stacking archetypes rules.
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Ultimate subsystems. +1
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Check Rite Publishing's stuff, or my Archetypes Document. That's probably the closer you'll get to what you would want to see, as Paizo has been clear about pretty much letting 3PP handle player options from now on, especially since there will probably not be another Paizo class options book before some years.
Let's see, maybe because the paladin doesn't have the "Smite Good" nor "Cruelty" class features ?
It's been said over and over, if you play an alternate class and there is an archetype for the base class that changes class features you GET - and only class features you still possess with the alternate class - then you can stack both alternate class and archetype, like per the stacking archetypes rules.
Problem, most official rogue archetypes toy with trapsense and other class features the the ninja doesn't have, so you don't really have any archetype options for the ninja.
Hence, Why I ask for them.I do appreciate 3PP for making options, but would like some official paizo options in the books.
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While I stated to myself "you need no more hardcovers dealing with rules, options and stuff", I'd actually fall for a Ultimate Subsystems book. Please add to the list an investigation, a library use/information retrieval, and a social/political debate subsystem.
An hardcover that also includes the Crafting/Stealth and Rituals parts, obviously.
Ultimate Craft
A book for skills, skill monkeys, crafting and games of intrigue. Not only "craft" as in the skill, but craftiness as in guile. This is a book designed to add a whole new dimension to Pathfinder, turning it from a combat and adventure game into a ruthless thinker's game.Optional rules for crafting, giving incredible depth beyond just "masterwork". Want to make a sword with a hooked blade designed for tripping? Give a shield superior balance, thus giving you an AC bonus when fighting defensively? Perhaps a specially weighted hammer that does +2 damage? Plate armor with special plates that let you disarm someone with a readied action? Leather armor with hooks giving you +2 on grapple checks? Now you can! No longer is the magic weapon the be-all and end-all. Enrich your low-fantasy game, or add a whole new dimension to existing martial characters. Dive into the deceptive world of guilds, their rivalries, secret societies, trading/shipping companies, pirates, shady religious institutions and some of their underhanded relations with politicians, crime families, professional criminals and even monsters and dark gods. Rules for building your own hidden network of intrigue, ambition and greed in "civilized" society. Expanded rules for PCs and their role in the economy, inserting them into the ruthless world of business, crime, intrigue and deception. New uses for skills, turning "people with lots of skill ranks" into super sleuths, incredible athletes and legendary strategists and tricksters. Additional rogue traits, spells, sorcerous bloodlines, alchemist archetypes and discoveries, domains and feats designed in the theme of craft and cunning. Rituals for higher level witches, wizards and divine classes, or performed by bound and devoted cults, covens and societies. Some are vile and evil, some are virtuous. All are mysterious and powerful secrets, to be guarded and kept behind closed doors. These are "The Craft", as you might say.
YES! I know it might be an attempt at a joke, but be the joke real! Only thing I'd add on it is "Naturalistic crafting - chop down a tree and actually be able to make it into a chair without having to spend as much gold as a person who didn't find some wood to make in a chair."
It would certainly help for campaigns that are more survival based, with less access to Weapons-r-Us
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ULTIMATE SKILL!
Lets make the rouge count again, with some stuff for others, not casters, they got enough in ultimate combat as it is.
I do appreciate 3PP for making options, but would like some official paizo options in the books.Why?
Seriously, why not 3PP? unless you're in PFS, 3PP is just as valid.
Yes its just as Valid,
but to Answer to that question is simple:Most GMs prohibit 3PP material,
or have one heck of a short list of 3PP that's allowed and most of the time it's stuff you don't have.
A short list:
- Ultimate Steampunk: industrial and gaslamp variants, archetypes, maybe an alternate class, mundane tech functioning on par with lower tier magic items
- Ultimate Space Opera: scifi sourcebook, alternate classes, advanced tech that doesn't simply mimic spell effects, etc.
- Ultimate Planar Adventures: setting-neutral planar sourcebook
- Ultimate Horror & Mystery: what it says on the tin, GMG equivalent
- Ultimate Villainy: players as antiheroes and villains, supportive archetypes, alternate classes, spells, etc.
I'm hoping for an "ultimate subsystems" (which will hopefully have a much better name) that would compile, update and expand on the various subsystems that Paizo has done, as well as adding additional ones:
- Spirits (as an update to the Haunt rules already in the Gamemastery Guide)
- Kingdom/city building
- Mass combat
- Trust/Notoriety rules that help guide interactions with an entire town or organization, and trigger events.
- Romance rules
- Caravan rules
- Ship/fleet management rules (probably a variant of the caravan rules)
- Ship to ship combat allowing all PCs to take part in a role
- Running a business rules
- and more!
DO WANT!
A short list:
- Ultimate Steampunk: industrial and gaslamp variants, archetypes, maybe an alternate class, mundane tech functioning on par with lower tier magic items
- Ultimate Space Opera: scifi sourcebook, alternate classes, advanced tech that doesn't simply mimic spell effects, etc.
- Ultimate Horror & Mystery: what it says on the tin, GMG equivalent
- Ultimate Villainy: players as antiheroes and villains, supportive archetypes, alternate classes, spells, etc.
I want these.
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Ultimate Pugwampis.
Ultimate-ly Futile...
or more seriously: Ultimate Specialist
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Ultimate Spells
Ultimate Feats and Traits
Ultimate Armory
Props to Ultimate Prestige But as (Ultimate Classes)
Fundamentally all the above suggestions are compendiums from existing books and adventure paths found in one place (Also shortens the Additional resources section from PFS)
To boot they'd contain methods in which you can create your own personalized spells, feats, items and prestige classes
Props to Ultimate Stealth and Guile : Guide to Rogues/Ninjas/Bards and Assassins
Ultimate Good : book with all the major heroes and righteous people in the world. Traits/Feats/Spells/classes/prestiges for good only characters (BoED without being broken)
Ultimate Evil : book with all major criminals villains and overlords bent on conquest, depravity and destruction. Like the Whispering Tyrant and other such, but also traits/feats/spells/classes/prestiges for evil only characters (BoVD without being broken)
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Ultimate Role-player : STOP Mocking us and give us a book T_T. A Guide book on how to role-play during adventures, inspirations and ideas for various character enriching role-play and GM table wrangling in regards to role play.
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Ultimate Genius!
It would have new uses for skills, rules for various Craft and Profession skills, Skill Tricks, ritual magic for spellcasters and non-spellcasters, feats that emphasize skill use, new archetypes for skill monkey classes, maybe even new skills (especially for the Constitution ability!), new skill monkey classes, maybe even skill-based magic systems. Maybe the return of synergy bonuses!
Skill-based tactics would be neat too.
Rules for traveling: Profession sailor, Ride, Fly, overland travel using Survival, parkour using Acrobatics, Climb, and Escape Artist, Stealth for sneaking in and out of places, Swim,
Rules for intrigue, skill challenges, encounter traps, teamwork skill feats, scams, etc.
Ultimate non-Casters. Magic users have enough nice toys as it is. I was hoping that UC would be just that considering casters got some goodies in UM, but nope. I don't mind Paladins, Rangers and even bard getting material, but Wizards, Clerics and other major caster should not have gotten anything in UC, IMO.
The suggestion about Ultimate Subsystems, yeah, I'd buy that in a heartbeat.
ULTIMATE SKILL!
Lets make the rouge count again, with some stuff for others, not casters, they got enough in ultimate combat as it is.
+1
Re work stealth, craft, Profession and heal skills
I hate that you can't actually heal someone with a heal skill even if you have a healers kit. and at lower levels the skill is too hard to use and at higher levels it doesn't matter.
I also would like see other uses of the heal skill. Use it to diagnose an illness, disease, or poison or to figure out how someone died, etc.
And fix some of the other skills. Make the rogue shine a bit more.
As A Man In Black once wrote:
"Skills are not only often nonfunctional (Diplomacy, original-version Stealth), they're also almost always hardcapped at what's "realistic" or "humanly possible" (Stealth again, all of the movement skills)."
Skills like escape artist, stealth, climb and swim or needs to get better and higher levels.
escape artist and stelth actuallt needs to get better even a lower levels too.
Same goes for all skills, even skills like sense motive, bluff and diplomacy.
I wouldn't mind an ULTIMATE MELEE book.
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Ultimate Skills
Ultimate Equipment
Ultimate Companions for creating and modifying all sorts of familiars, animal companions, elemental companions, henchmen, followers, etc. Could also have some sections for how to get the most from your companions or fellow party members. I would imagine cavaliers and party buffers would get a lot of new things to play with.
Ultimate Secrets - rules for campaigns focussed on intrigue, investigation, mystery, occult lore, conspiracies, etcetera.
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Ultimate Secrets - but we're not telling you what's in it.
fixed it for you.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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What about just "Ultimate Pathfinder" — all the rules you know and love but cleaned up and debugged. Clean up the gobs of redundant and contradictory rules, goofy stuff that just doesn't quite work (like stealth), add easy to follow diagrams and flow charts for things like grappling.
It could be tagged "100% easier to follow, 100% compatible".
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What about just "Ultimate Pathfinder" — all the rules you know and love but cleaned up and debugged. Clean up the gobs of redundant and contradictory rules, goofy stuff that just doesn't quite work (like stealth), add easy to follow diagrams and flow charts for things like grappling.
It could be tagged "100% easier to follow, 100% compatible".
What a bloody wonderful idea!
Edit: Actually, combine this with Ultimate Subsystems from above. In other words - don't just limit the subsystems to new ones. Also, please make one mounted combat.
Remember kids, classes other than fighter, barbarian, and cavalier fight with weapons, and the vast majority of classes are martial classes. Just like how UC had stuff for martial casters such as the cleric and the bard, a book on Skills would also contain ways for fighters and other 2+ Int mod classes to use skills, such as wizards and fighters.
So if you find yourself nerdraging at Ultimate Skills having options for low skill classes, and you didn't bother to do any research on the intent of the book, consider yourself warned! And do try to remember that the world isn't so black and white.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Funny...that's what I thought ROLEPLAYING was for. Something other than a flesh run computer game. If you can't carry off Captain Jack, you're certainly not going to get the atmosphere by reducing everything about him to dice rolls.
If you can't carry off swinging a sword, you're certainly not going to get the atmosphere by reducing everything about combat to dice roles.
If you aren't a combat medic, you're certainly not going to get the atmosphere by reducing everything about the heal skill to dice roles.
If you can't cast a spell, you're certainly not going to get the atmosphere by reducing everything about wizards to dice rolls.
Any other straw men you'd like to throw up?
Ultimate Genius!
It would have new uses for skills, rules for various Craft and Profession skills, Skill Tricks, ritual magic for spellcasters and non-spellcasters, feats that emphasize skill use, new archetypes for skill monkey classes, maybe even new skills (especially for the Constitution ability!), new skill monkey classes, maybe even skill-based magic systems. Maybe the return of synergy bonuses!
Skill-based tactics would be neat too.
Rules for traveling: Profession sailor, Ride, Fly, overland travel using Survival, parkour using Acrobatics, Climb, and Escape Artist, Stealth for sneaking in and out of places, Swim,
Rules for intrigue, skill challenges, encounter traps, teamwork skill feats, scams, etc.
We have the same ideas. I LOVED skill trips from 3.5 too, but I don't think they can do anything like that.
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I would much rather not have skill tricks. They seem cool, but they limit what skills can do, not expand. You need the skill trick to use the skill in a way anyone should be able to.
It's much better to have new uses for the skills, and just set reasonable DCs.