A druid in my party is rather attached to a certain nonhumanoid NPC. We were wondering if she were to get impregnated while shaped, would the pregnancy carry over? Would that particular form need to be assumed in the case of a birth? It's basic logistical things that are a little derailing, but fun to explore nonetheless.
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Do whatever is needed to discourage bestiality.
Do whatever is needed to discourage bestiality.
In Gods and Magic, I think, Lamashtu has a magic item that makes you able to breed with every creature.
Note that if she is a druid who, for instance, gets down with a wolf, she will birth a horrid abomination to god and man instead of KUTE WULF PUPPEEZ.
The creature in question is a hippogriff
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Rule 34 on hippogriffs... brought to you by the paizo messageboard.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!
...I can see why you didn't mention it at first.
Rule 34 on hippogriffs... brought to you by the paizo messageboard.
It is almost appropriate considering the origins of the hippogryph...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippogriff
I'd say no on getting knocked up, while in wild shape. The wild shape ability is a temporary change in form.
You could probably have sex in wild shape, but I'd think you'd be sterile when in hippogriff form.
Of course you could always house rule things differently, if you feel it'd liven up the party.
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Popcorn time.
Oh god. After reading that wiki, I just realized we are talking about magical cross-species horse-porn.
And now I am recalling the intro to "Dead Ale Wives" skit: "DUNGEONS and DRAGONS... SATAN'S game..."
Hmmm, personally I would probably rule that being as she doesn't actually BECOME that type of animal, just takes it's shape, then she wouldn't actually be compatible enough for a pregnancy to actually initiate...
If she is really into that idea though, I would just have her research some sort of custom magic spell that would alter her reproductive organs to the point where she could do it regardless of what form she is in.
The creature type of a wild-shaped creature doesn't change (one may say that the shape changes, but the DNA doesn't), so the pregnancy would come in effect only if the other creature is one capable of breeding with different kinds, such as a Dragon, Outsider or certain other cases.
Short answer, up to the GM.
Long answer. Depends on the world and it's reality matrix.
If she's a druid, she's worshiping a nature god. So it really depends on how the nature god treats wild shape. If the god is actually giving them the ability to become that animal for awhile, then yes, the pregnancy could probably occur. Whether it is maintained when the druid transfers back, would again depend on the reality matrix of the world. I'd say it comes down to whether the nature god likes the idea of human/animal hybrids. If there are such things as ratfolk, catfolk, deerfolk, gibbli, etc in the world, then it's entirely possible that all these different human/animal hybrids sprung up from druids wild shaping. If that's the case, then the answer would be that the pregnancy could stick. As to birthing, I'd say the birthing likely would need to be done in whichever form was largest, as the half-breeds will be somewhere between the two races at birth as far as size goes.
Assuming she is human, I would consider the child for the most part human. The same way that dragons can take human form to father children with human mothers, and the offspring is humanoid. The mother will spend most of her time during gestation in human shape, after all, and I have a feeling that she is going to be too distracted by her labor to assume wild shape at that time. Depending on what the father is, a creature pregnancy and delivery could possibly even kill her.
I would do one of two things. Either the child is born essentially a sorcerer, able to take levels at an obscenely early age, with whatever bloodline most closely resembles the nature of the father,
or
I would stat a new humanoid race with some natural abilities (low powered, no reason to make the kid some kind of demigod) characteristic of the father, or similar to druid abilities, or, better yet, a natural shapeshifter.
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A couple of issues here. One she would have to be able to breed with it as her type does not change. Another thing would be if she got pregnant changing shape could cause her to loose the child.
As far as I know, there are no actual rules regarding this, so you are free to homerule your own. Variants I have seen in various games I have played include:
1) Shape changing magic never allows you to become pregnant by a species other than your original one (or a species your original one can definitely interbreed with, such as elves/humans).
2) Shape changing magic does not allow you to become pregnant by another species unless the magic actually changes your "type"; e.g., if "hold person" would still work on you, you cannot get pregnant by a hippogriff.
3) Shape changing magic allows you to get pregnant by another species, but only for as long as you remain in the form of that species. As soon as you change forms to anything else, the pregnancy ends. To carry to term, you must stay in the correct form throughout the length of the pregnancy.
4) Shape changing magic allows you to get pregnant by another species, and will only end if you take a form in which pregnancy is impossible (male, ungendered, etc.)
5) Shape changing magic allows you to get pregnant by another species, and any subsequent shape changes to any other form will not in and of themselves end the pregnancy.
Anybody else thinking of Epic Movie right now?
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I usually consider Wild Shape and all similar spells as merely "cosmetic", that is, the druid is still human(?) but wearing a magical, let's say hippogriph, costume.
If she couldn't get pregnant while in her original form, I wouldn't rule it as possible while transformed.
That's on my table, though. If you believe the love between her and the hippogriph in question is above species barriers, who am I to interfere?
Now if you all excuse me, I need to find some brain bleach.
A druid in my party is rather attached to a certain nonhumanoid NPC. We were wondering if she were to get impregnated while shaped, would the pregnancy carry over? Would that particular form need to be assumed in the case of a birth? It's basic logistical things that are a little derailing, but fun to explore nonetheless.
Probably something not left to hard-and-fast rules (ugh, innuendos). Two things probably decide this:
A. Is it a joke that is going to get old? If so, don't bother with it.
B. Is it that kind of campaign? If so, number the possibilities on a table and roll for it. Skew the probabilities when you feel like it.
If you're being dead serious about wanting a "realistic" answer, think on this: can the Druid wild shape into a songbird, eat a few seeds or a dozen ants, then wild shape back and not have to worry about eating rations? If so, go for it. Maybe she'll give birth to different species depending on if she's Wild Shaped for the delivery or not. Nature is weird, magic is weird.
A couple of issues here. One she would have to be able to breed with it as her type does not change. Another thing would be if she got pregnant changing shape could cause her to loose the child.
I think the GM is assuming that it will work, no matter what, and is trying to find a way to portray it in a practical, game-friendly manner.
Aside from that, game fluff states over and over again that demons, devils, angels, dragons, and other types, mate successfully with humanoids. So to my mind, crossing type is a given. Just matters as to what the child looks like/is capable of in the end.
Two ways to treat this problem. One is the "bio-realistic" way. The other is the "mythic" way.
Biorealism assumes that once the magical process of shapeshifting is complete, the druid is then a normal example of the new species.
That means if they could remain wildshaped long enough to carry the child to term, everything would be fine. If they shifted back they'd all of a sudden have a fetus inside them that they don't have the plumbing to carry. Depending on the size of it and how far along it was, that could be very bad.
Mythic assumes that hybrid creatures are, in fact, natural byproducts of shapeshifting magic in a world. Dragons, Fiends and Celestials have 1/2 breed offspring all over the place and seem to have genes that just don't care about the usual rules regarding cross-species procreation. One explanation for this is that they are naturally morphic creatures. Most of their kind can shapeshift to varying degrees. It follows that shapeshifters of all kinds might have the ability to breed with species outside their own natural state.
Well, there's an unusual topic. Was bound to show up on the forums eventually, lol. IMO, it's your game, do what feels right; assuming your the GM. If not, it's the GM's descision.
Random question: is this a kingfinder game?
As far as I know, there are no actual rules regarding this, so you are free to homerule your own. Variants I have seen in various games I have played include:
1) Shape changing magic never allows you to become pregnant by a species other than your original one (or a species your original one can definitely interbreed with, such as elves/humans).
2) Shape changing magic does not allow you to become pregnant by another species unless the magic actually changes your "type"; e.g., if "hold person" would still work on you, you cannot get pregnant by a hippogriff.
3) Shape changing magic allows you to get pregnant by another species, but only for as long as you remain in the form of that species. As soon as you change forms to anything else, the pregnancy ends. To carry to term, you must stay in the correct form throughout the length of the pregnancy.
4) Shape changing magic allows you to get pregnant by another species, and will only end if you take a form in which pregnancy is impossible (male, ungendered, etc.)
5) Shape changing magic allows you to get pregnant by another species, and any subsequent shape changes to any other form will not in and of themselves end the pregnancy.
I'm really surprised how often this subject seems to have come up in your experiences... :P
Oh my...
Well, I've GMed for characters who were arguments for this and arguments against it. I''d say...
Well, what are you and your players comfortable with?
My favored method is one where the character can get pregnant. But the character is the one with wild shape, not the embryo. So as the pregnancy progresses the PC would be limited to larger and larger forms as the fetus grows larger and larger. Because, remember, horses and therefore hippogriffs are not small animals.
Also, winged centaurs is a nice non-horrific crossbreed.
Think about Elfquest. There's an high-magic sorceress/druid (as we would describe her) who breeds with a wolf... and the result is a race of elves more stocky and resistant AND a race of intelligent and low-magic wolves.
Here's a set of logic steps for you.
Q1: A druid wildshapes into a viper and bites someone. The next round, the druid resumes humanoid form. Assuming the fortitude save was failed, does the venom continue it's deadly process on the victim?
A1: Yes.
Q2: Where does this poison come from?
A2: The glands of the form taken.
Conclusion1: Glands of the assumed form are 100% functional, producing persistent output in other creatures, even if the form is temporary.
Conclusion2: Anatomy of the assumed form is 100% functional, but as temporary as the form itself.
So, that said, I see 3 options.
[1] She gets impregnated, but the zygote is as temporary as the form she takes - it goes "poof" gone when she assumes another form.
[2] She gets impregnated, but the zygote form transforms with her, resulting in a human child.
[3] She gets impregnated, but as soon as she spends any notable time in a non-hippogriff form, a miscarriage results due to biological incompatibility. This may or may not be a medical threat to the mother.
Short answer, up to the GM.
Long answer. Depends on the world and it's reality matrix.
If she's a druid, she's worshiping a nature god. So it really depends on how the nature god treats wild shape. If the god is actually giving them the ability to become that animal for awhile, then yes, the pregnancy could probably occur. Whether it is maintained when the druid transfers back, would again depend on the reality matrix of the world. I'd say it comes down to whether the nature god likes the idea of human/animal hybrids. If there are such things as ratfolk, catfolk, deerfolk, gibbli, etc in the world, then it's entirely possible that all these different human/animal hybrids sprung up from druids wild shaping. If that's the case, then the answer would be that the pregnancy could stick. As to birthing, I'd say the birthing likely would need to be done in whichever form was largest, as the half-breeds will be somewhere between the two races at birth as far as size goes.
EDIT : Cross-Posted, since the OP seems to have created two threads on the same subject.
Remember.. Loki was the first to do this..
The gods declare that Loki deserves a horrible death if he cannot find a scheme that will cause the builder to forfeit his payment, and threaten to attack him. Loki, afraid, swears oaths that he will devise a scheme to cause the builder to forfeit the payment, whatever it may cost himself. That night, the builder drives out to fetch stone with his stallion Svaðilfari, and out from a wood runs a mare. The mare neighs at Svaðilfari, and "realizing what kind of horse it was," Svaðilfari becomes frantic, neighs, tears apart his tackle, and runs towards the mare. The mare runs to the wood, Svaðilfari follows, and the builder chases after. The two horses run around all night, causing the building to be halted and the builder is then unable to regain the previous momentum of his work.[41]The builder goes into a rage, and when the Æsir realize that the builder is a hrimthurs, they disregard their previous oaths with the builder, and call for Thor. Thor arrives, and subsequently kills the builder by smashing the builder's skull into shards with the hammer Mjöllnir. However, Loki "had such dealings" with Svaðilfari that "somewhat later" Loki gives birth to a gray foal with eight legs; the horse Sleipnir—"the best horse among gods and men."[41]
Ah, the gods of olden days, soo much better than new age gods.
I'm really surprised how often this subject seems to have come up in your experiences... :P
Really? In any game with shapechanging and any semblance of a social element, it's usually one of the first questions that comes up as soon as the magic is accessible to the players. Bear in mind it can be as simple as a half-orc/elf couple wondering if they can use it to have a child together, but I've also seen it come up for situations more like the one in the original poster's question on quite a number of occasions.
there was a 3.5 books about these kind of questions, it said that any pregnancy is aborted if you wildshape or polymorph (this was with 3.5 tough, and where everything was a bit different).
However if you could wildshape for 9 months (or whatever the period is) then it could/should work.
Can't she just adopt a child from another hippogryph?
blackbloodtroll, if it were that easy and human and hippogriff could mate, then a gryphon and a human should be able to mate, and also a horse and a human (no that's not a centaur I think), then if the offspring of those 2 should make the same as human and hippogriffs as it's always 1/2 human, 1/4 griphon, 1/4 horse.
Anyhow, in my opinion crossbreeding isn't worth the trouble anyway, what's half half-elf and half elf? 3/4 elf = elf?
I agree that this is now a question RAW will directly answer. That said, we can extrapolate.
First, wild shape never changes your creature type or subtype. A druid never becomes an animal. They remain of their original race, only one that is badly misshapen.
Second, the degree of alteration isn't sufficient to change any of the druid's mental stats. They remain mentally identical to their original form. Clearly the changes taking place are more cosmetic than structural. We're not looking at a DNA-level change.
Third, you don't gain all of the abilities of a form you take. Wild shape has its limitations as to how much change it imparts upon you. The list never grants you "x-blooded".
I'd say the rules telling you how wild shape work are pretty comprehensive. They don't include breeding rights.
Slapping a Fey Type on the offspring is also a very easy solution, as it'd most likely be a humanoid looking creature created while under the influence of divine nature magic and it's father being, most likely by the sound of it, a fey or an animal.
In my game, I'd give it the mother's stats, but change out her Type for Fey, or treat it with half-elf stats, as those two closest represent a bonding of whatever the druid is, and animal/fey companion.
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The only rules I've seen regarding this would be from usage of Lamashtu's Mask from the 3.5 Golarion "Gods and Magic" book. That would create some sort of whatever-the-Druid-is / hippogryph hybrid.
You might want to check out my Wildling race. The Unrestrained class is where the quintessence abilities come from.