Ok, here's the thing, I would like to make a monk character who's actually a weapon master, not an unarmed fighter. The problem, however, is that sooner or later, is that the damage from your unarmed strikes is gonna outclass those of any manufactured weapon.
So... is there any class alternate feature, legal or homebrewed, that basically substitute the increasing damage to unarmed strikes for an increasing damage to weapons instead ? Like, I don't know, the weapon damage could increase by one size per ### monk levels or the weapon deals an extra dice of damage per ### monk levels.
Thanks in advance.
Ok, here's the thing, I would like to make a monk character who's actually a weapon master, not an unarmed fighter. The problem, however, is that sooner or later, is that the damage from your unarmed strikes is gonna outclass those of any manufactured weapon.
So... is there any class alternate feature, legal or homebrewed, that basically substitute the increasing damage to unarmed strikes for an increasing damage to weapons instead ? Like, I don't know, the weapon damage could increase by one size per ### monk levels or the weapon deals an extra dice of damage per ### monk levels.
Thanks in advance.
The increased threat range, cheaper enchantments, and ability to bypass DR make weapons a better option than unarmed strikes at all levels, regardless of the better die size associated with Unarmed Strikes.
Unarmed Monk is a trap, unless you're exploiting the crap out of Styles (even then weapons are probably better) or your DM allows CL 20 permanent Greater Magic Fang with no complications.
The very best a monk's unarmed attack ever does is 2d10, which averages 11 damage. Even compared to something like a quarterstaff, which deals 1d6 (3.5 average, you're only missing out on 7.5 average damage. At level 20. The extra damage from Strength and Power Attack that you get for using a weapon in two hands will always make up for (and probably surpass) the unarmed damage.
It's not worth worrying about, especially since weapons also make DR a hell of a lot easier to bypass and enchantments a hell of a lot cheaper to buy.
@JiCi:
a monk of the empty hand makes a fantastic weapon's master. He can flurry any weapon, use it in ways normal people cannot, and he can substitute his unarmed damage for the weapon damage roll. At high levels (11th onwards) he can even make his weapons bane or just about any other property.
@JiCi:
a monk of the empty hand makes a fantastic weapon's master. He can flurry any weapon, use it in ways normal people cannot, and he can substitute his unarmed damage for the weapon damage roll. At high levels (11th onwards) he can even make his weapons bane or just about any other property.
Sweet, that's exactly what I'm looking for... until I read that it's with improved weapons only...
PARADISE LOST !
Ok, LoreKeeper, you do bring the thing I would like to get, but with actual weapons, not broken chair legs and beer mugs. Thanks for the insight.
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Since flurrying uses a higher BAB value and (barring enough DR) does a lot more damage, you will probably only want to attack using flurries. When forced to do a single attack, that's when you might want to two-hand a weapon, or do a maneuver since you're not penalized on those.
You can flurry with a two-handed weapon just fine, but you only get 1x Str bonus to damage. You do, however, get the better Power Attack damage bonus.
For a single attack, two-handing wins (a temple sword will double as a 2-hander just fine, you just can't use a light weapon). For a full attack, flurrying follows two-weapon-fighting rules and uses your full level instead of 3/4 BAB, and you're doing a lot more attacks.
You can flurry with the Temple Sword in two hands, though. Yes, you don't get 1.5x Strength, but you do get 1.5x Power Attack, and that pretty much makes up for the damage gap.
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So... is there any class alternate feature, legal or homebrewed, that basically substitute the increasing damage to unarmed strikes for an increasing damage to weapons instead ? Like, I don't know, the weapon damage could increase by one size per ### monk levels or the weapon deals an extra dice of damage per ### monk levels.
Thanks in advance.
We house rules it along time ago... much like Zen Archer (archetype) that you could have a Ki Weapon - spend a Ki point to change the dmg on your weapon to match your unarmed strike dmg.
alternately you could adapt a Feat for the same purpose...
Weapon Specialization Combat Training (Combat)
- You were taught a style of martial arts that relies on your martial training from your class feature.
Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, BAB + 9 or monk 7th level.
Benefit: Choose one of your weapons your are proficient with. While using the selected weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as the effects unarmed strike damage.
Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected weapon with your flurry of blows class feature.
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@JiCi:
a monk of the empty hand makes a fantastic weapon's master. He can flurry any weapon, use it in ways normal people cannot, and he can substitute his unarmed damage for the weapon damage roll. At high levels (11th onwards) he can even make his weapons bane or just about any other property.
Sweet, that's exactly what I'm looking for... until I read that it's with improved weapons only...
PARADISE LOST !
Ok, LoreKeeper, you do bring the thing I would like to get, but with actual weapons, not broken chair legs and beer mugs. Thanks for the insight.
hehehe - you didn't read properly enough then: the monk of the empty hand wields any weapon and can flurry it. The weapon itself counts as an improvised weapon; so yes. You can flurry chair legs. But you can also flurry scimitars, darts, warhammers or whatever else takes your fancy.
It sounds like a bad deal to flurry a 2d6 great sword as a 1d6/1d6 weapon; but keep in mind that:
1. you are flurrying it
2. at level 6 you can take improvised weapon mastery to get to 1d8/1d8 19-20/x2
3. you can use your ki to apply your unarmed damage to your damage roll; thus flurring a 2d10/2d10 great sword eventually
4. you literally can masterfully wield anything: weapons and non-weapons
Interesting...I assumed that because every other sentence in the flurry of blows description included the phrase 'as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat' it meant only the equivalent attacks that would actually be allowed in TWF
I don't know if it has somehow been stopped in Pathfinder (I haven't seen anything so far that would, but I've only been involved in it for about two weeks now), but in 3.5, I had a character dual wield a two-handed weapon and armor spikes--and a monk who dual wielded a two-handed weapon and unarmed strikes.
(Again, unless this has somehow been changed) you can dual wield anything you like as long as you have the "hands" for the "off-hand" attack, and neither armor spikes nor unarmed strikes required an actual hand. Monk unarmed strikes wouldn't work anymore since they can't be TWFed, only Flurried, but non-monk unarmed strikes might still work.
But I doubt you'd get to use the enhancements of the item if you wield it as an 'improvised' weapon.
I wouldn't. Yeah, I may be using the flat side of the longsword(treating it as a club, as per the class feature), but if it's a +1 Flaming Longsword I should still get the fire damage.
The magic is in the weapon, not how you use it.
Large 9 Section Whip. 2d6 two handed bludgeoning weapon with disarm and trip. You still get to use all your flurry hits. This remains stronger than your unarmed attack for quite a while, more so if you're a maneuver master or flowing monk.