I see a lot of discussion on these boards debating the value of builds based on whether they're SAD or MAD. I'm curious what people would do if that weren't an issue anymore.
The hypothetical situation: you sit down with your GM and roll your stats with 3d6 and somehow end uo with 6 18's. It's crazy, but your GM rules you got those numbers legally so you get to keep them. The question is: now that you have them, what's the character you make out of them?
I'd say Wizard, Cleric or Druid.
The latter two are seriously dangerous with those stats.
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None, I find flawless characters boring to play.
That's not the point really. I think this is more merely for the statistic facts and the humor of such character more or less stomping anything that gets in the way (unless the CR is higher than normal)
Probably Barbarian-Fighter, actually.
That's not the point really. I think this is more merely for the statistic facts and the humor of such character more or less stomping anything that gets in the way (unless the CR is higher than normal)
But in this hypothetical situation the OP mentioned that's really what I would do. I can see the fun in building such a character for an evening of mayhem and domination but actually playing something like this in a group of less divine characters would be nothing for me.
Actually, I think barbarian or fighter is a great idea with those statistics. The biggest weakness of the fighter is skill points, so an 18 Int on a human fighter is pretty boss. Intimidate is amped, you can deal craploads of damage through range or melee without having to specialize in either.
I think I'd be able to play any class with those abilities and enjoy them, even calling them 'the perfect character'. I think with the last few builds I made, though, I'd play a venedaemon abyssal sorcerer or a wildshaping champion.
But, just imagine you're a first level human fighter with 7 skill ranks, a +8 Intimidate check (with only one rank!), a +4 bonus to Initiative and AC, +7 to hit on your charge, Power Attacking for 2d6+9 (19-20) with your greatsword.
And, of course, 14 hit points.
Suck it, magic missile.
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You make a commoner that adventures. And you love it.
Edit: Seriously, It would give the character a bit of a challenge and would help in curving the other player's stat envy. A commoner with strait 18's would still be a force to be reckoned with...
I see a lot of discussion on these boards debating the value of builds based on whether they're SAD or MAD. I'm curious what people would do if that weren't an issue anymore.
The hypothetical situation: you sit down with your GM and roll your stats with 3d6 and somehow end uo with 6 18's. It's crazy, but your GM rules you got those numbers legally so you get to keep them. The question is: now that you have them, what's the character you make out of them?
Well several come to mind.
Kensai Blade-bound Magus - Int, Str, Con, Dex
Monk - Str, Dex, Con, Wis
Paladin - Str, Con, Wis, Cha
Druid - Str, Dex, Con, Wis
Ranger (Switch hitter) - Str, Dex, Con, Wis
Cross-blooded Sorcerer (Orc/Stone) Str, Dex, Con, Cha
All of these would benefit from high stats.
Ninja or Paladin. Maybe a Ninja/Paladin or Gunslinger, depends on what I'm going for. Heck, I might have all 3 classes.
I see a lot of discussion on these boards debating the value of builds based on whether they're SAD or MAD. I'm curious what people would do if that weren't an issue anymore.
The hypothetical situation: you sit down with your GM and roll your stats with 3d6 and somehow end uo with 6 18's. It's crazy, but your GM rules you got those numbers legally so you get to keep them. The question is: now that you have them, what's the character you make out of them?
I think that using "all 18s" as your hypothetical confuses the issue of MAD with simply being overpowered. I'd be more curious what people would try out if all characters got 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14.
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Exactly the same character I would play in a 15 point game. IE whatever art caught my eye recently or seems most fun when building him.
Perhaps a Saurian Shaman or a rune obsessed dwarven cyphermage or a monk of the four-winds. It would depend on the campaign and my mood.
FWIW I'd beg my DM to let me point buy stats rather than play a character with all 18s due to luck.
all 18, probably monk, tough I would never want to play one in another scenario, they bore me.
all 14, alchemist, he could still be good at everything.
Edit: big +1 for the commoner idea
To be honest I was hoping for more specifics. There are all sorts of class combinations that sounds fun to me, but can't really be done in a normal game because the stats just wouldn't allow it. i.e., in a normal game if you're an upfront fighter who wants to dabble in magic, you have to divide yourself up and take one high mental stat. That means a fighter/cleric/wizard must suck somewhere because you can't have a high WIS and INT and a decent CHA for channeling and still have a high STR and CON.
I wondered what sorts of builds people would make if they no longer had the condition that "It would make the character so MAD that the concept, while fun, could never actually see the light of day."
Anyone out there ever dreamed up a frontlining Cleric/Bard/Barbarian build that actually could see the light of day with those stats?
And about the "it would destroy the fun for everyone else" comments, let's say the whole party gets straight 18s and the game will be scaled appropriately.
What sort of party would you make?
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A lot of those odd multi-class combos fail because they lose too much spellcasting or too much BAB or too much of some class feature, not because they need weird stats. Having six 18s is not going to stop you from being a few caster levels behind.
I'm a defense guy, myself, so I'd probably go Monk/Paladin/Magus(Kensai)/some full spellcaster class to get Int, Wis, and Dex (obviously) to AC along with Mage Armor, Shield, some % miss spells, Charisma to saves, lots of good base saves, and Evasion.
multiclass
paladin/monk/kensai was totally what i had thought to kudos
Might I augment your hypothetical by saying your GM is allowing you to play a true azlanti which gets +2 to everything? Even 20s across the board...
Might I augment your hypothetical by saying your GM is allowing you to play a true azlanti which gets +2 to everything? Even 20s across the board...
True Azlanti Cleric, the bane of all life (and undeath if channelling Positive Energy)
I would do a monk with 18's.
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AM BARBARIAN has no chance against a wizard of equal level unless you give him every possible advantage.Wizard.AM BARBARIAN just kicked your ass.
In a 1 on 1 fight? I'd say it would be highly dependent on the starting distance between them and who wins the initiative roll.
If the barbarian gets to rage (picking up his save bonuses against magic) before the wizard starts casting, and they're close enough for him to charge immediately, then the barbarian wins.
If the wizard can blast/debuff him before he gets his rage up, and/or if he can stay out of melee range, then the wizard wins.
Fighter-wizard. Have stuff to do in and out of combat. Can even be decently social with a few skill points + high Charisma.
A Cleric or Monk... maybe a fusion of both.
Hmmm... Melee cleric/monk could make good use of all those 18s. The only stat such a character wouldn't need is Int, but the extra skills would come in handy anyway. Yeah I wouldn't want to waste any of the 18s since they are rare, that's probably what I would make.
part of it is Archetypes and PrC's
With those stats, you get an awesome Undead Lord as you got fantastic Casting, and Channeling, with the Wis and Cha, plus full Melee stats. an Undead-Lord that can go tow to tow with the rest of the party and their own minions with the decent BAB and Armor of the Cleric.
A Melee bard would love the combat stats and the Wis for saves perception is great, and SO MANY SKILLS!!!!!
Or you can have a Social Monk
I think that using "all 18s" as your hypothetical confuses the issue of MAD with simply being overpowered. I'd be more curious what people would try out if all characters got 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14.I see a lot of discussion on these boards debating the value of builds based on whether they're SAD or MAD. I'm curious what people would do if that weren't an issue anymore.
The hypothetical situation: you sit down with your GM and roll your stats with 3d6 and somehow end uo with 6 18's. It's crazy, but your GM rules you got those numbers legally so you get to keep them. The question is: now that you have them, what's the character you make out of them?
Before racial stat mods? Monk. After racial stat mods? Monk. Sure, starting with just a 14 Str is not the best in the world, but it is enough to negate the penalty for flurry of blows. Yeah, I'd play a character with straight 14s every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Master Arminas
Monk hands down...he'll I would play monk if I could get three 16's and not have to dump every other stat.
I'd use it to remake my elven curve blade wielding Elf Barbarian. That was my first character, who was cool in my head, but not very impressive in the game (good, but not great). But with all those 18's, she'd have amazing perception, knowledge nature, craft, and survival. And she'd be able to get around the battle field fine with good climb/swim (I'd like that 9 skill ranks per level). She'd have a decently high AC that can't be caught flat footed, and she can keep it while raging at level 6 (Beast Totem). Then she'd have more then acceptable damage that crits on 18s (until I can get a keen version).
Pretty much, I wouldn't try to make the most broken thing I can think of. I'd just try to make something cool that normally wouldn't be that good.
Red Mantis Assassin!!!
Or a Monk focused on Intimidate (Enforcer feat/Boar Style)
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In a 1 on 1 fight? I'd say it would be highly dependent on the starting distance between them and who wins the initiative roll.
If the barbarian gets to rage (picking up his save bonuses against magic) before the wizard starts casting, and they're close enough for him to charge immediately, then the barbarian wins.
If the wizard can blast/debuff him before he gets his rage up, and/or if he can stay out of melee range, then the wizard wins.
On BATTY BAT, if AM is out of melee range, then he's also beyond the range of any of the wizard's spells (not to mention out of the wizard's range of perception).
The truth of the matter is that you don't have to give "every possible advantage" to AM in order for him to win, you have to give every possible advantage to the wizard in order for him to merely survive. By which I mean successfully run away.
A rogue would be fun. Pretty much all the skills (13 or 14 maxed out!), great perception, great at Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate/Use Magic Device, and of course great in combat. Probably go the Combat Expertise tree with Improved Disarm, Feint, Dirty Trick, and Trip.
A monk would be fun too. I haven't really seen a Pathfinder one in play yet, but I like the idea of being self-sufficient. In 3.5, I played a Vow of Poverty Monk, and I really felt I missed out over being greedy for loot.
Druids are always fun, and I've had fun in the past with an elven archer druid. EXTREMELY versatile.
A paladin would be super fun. I smart paladin. WOW! And they actually have an interesting selection of class skills....of course, if traits are allowed, I'd want to be a half-elf paladin with Skill Focus Use Magic Device! Tank, Healer, back-up archer, face, and versatile utility faux caster.
A magus would be fun too.
But to be honest, what the rest of the party was playing would influence me the most on my character creation. I have so many character ideas, I wouldn't mind filling in for the tank, skill monkey, blaster, healer, or 5th wheel.
EDIT:
In d20 Modern once, I did role up some pretty uber stats. Something like 18, 17, 17, 16, 16, 15. I ended up playing a Jesuit priest/surgeon that kept uzis in his medical bags. (It was a Buffy-esque campaign, but run by the Vatican. Very odd, but very very cool. All the PCs were monster hunting priests.) He was a Dedicated Hero, but I put the 18 in Intelligence. Actually, maybe it was less uber, maybe just Demi-Uber, like 18, 17, 17, 14, 13, 12. Something that would have been able to have been a great tank, but went in a different direction.
I removed a post and some replies to it. Don't tell people they're 'playing the game wrong'.
Honestly I'd love to play a Magus/Cleric/Mystic Theurge. It's not optimized but it sounds awesome once you've got the Magus arcana that lets you use combat casting with other spell lists. The problem is it's as MAD as you can get: an upfront fighter that needs every mental stat. It's the kind of character I think would be awesome to play, but I can't think of any way to play him well that doesn't require ridiculous stats. Otherwise you'd find yourself not able to survive close combat very well...
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I would probably play the character concept I had already had in mind - for me that always comes before rolling stats.
However I may be tempted to actually take the opportunity to play a race and class combination that are against type - a race that takes a penalty to the important stat the class needs, e.g. choose a Dwarf Sorcerer, or Halfling Barbarian.
If I were playing 3.5 I may choose to play a race that has a level adjustment assuming we were starting at level 2 or higher.
