Adamantine arrows cost +60 per arrow, and silver arrows are +2 gp/arrow.
At least I think it's per arrow, because it nowhere states that it's per batch of 50 (like with magic enchantment) and adamantine actually states its per missile.
Adamantine makes the ammunition also masterwork, but honestly in most cases that is wasted as soon as the bow is masterwork already.
So why not just buy a Weapon Blanch for adamantine for 100 gp and make 10 normal arrows into Adamantine arrows. That's 10 gp/arrow. Heck, if you really want the masterwork quality, pay 6 gp more, 16/arrow is still alot cheaper.
Silver Weapon Blanch is even cheaper just 5 gp for 10 arrows, for 50s per arrow. In this case masterwork is stupid, but the normal silver doesn't include it either. Also it does not impose a -1 on damage rolls as real silver does.
Cold Iron seems to be the only one where it is (alot!) cheaper to just buy the real thing.
Am I missing something? Weapon Blanch even says it stays effective till you make a successful attack, no timelimit on it at all.
Hmm, crazy money making idea: Create weapon blanched masterwork adamantine arrows for 16 gp and sell them as real adamantine arrows for 30. If you can craft the weapon blanch or the arrows yourself it should get even better. :)
I know a lot of people who say that while the arrows are broken / destroyed after use, the adamantine arrow head is recoverable (and the shafts can be repaired with mending or make whole).
At level 1, many people could buy an adamantine arrow to use it break through... Just about anything.
I just elected to take two adamantine arrows, as weapon blanche and cold iron arrows take care of most situations. Both blunt. With those you can generally shoot through chains, locks, manacles, etc., even with the half damage penalty. You can go completely green arrow with just a couple simple choices.
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Why buy Adamantine / silver arrows?
*snotty tone* Because I can afford the cost.
Check out durable arrow from elves of golarion. Reusable adamantine arrows are fine by me.
They are definatly worth it for the insanely priced Adamantine Arrows
I just elected to take two adamantine arrows, as weapon blanche and cold iron arrows take care of most situations. Both blunt. With those you can generally shoot through chains, locks, manacles, etc., even with the half damage penalty. You can go completely green arrow with just a couple simple choices.If someone shot an adamantine arrow, blunt or not, at chain, a lock, manacles, etc in my game it would do 0 damage, or 1 damage if they rolled really well... on the other hand, a hammer and pick (normal old iron/steel) has a pretty decent chance of doing damage to the listed items... 2x normal damage and bypass hardness because that's what they were made to do.Ineffective Weapons
Certain weapons just can't effectively deal damage to certain objects. For example, a bludgeoning weapon cannot be used to damage a rope. Likewise, most melee weapons have little effect on stone walls and doors, unless they are designed for breaking up stone, such as a pick or hammer.
In your game you are welcome to do as you please, but the rules clearly state that ranged attacks do 1/2 damage to item hp. If you were to shoot the chain that has a prisoner attached to a wall for instance (aiming for the ring or piton that actually attaches it, I'm aware of physics) you'd be looking at an 18 to hit and 10hp worth of damage to break. Adamantine items are supposed to be crazy powerful when it comes to breaking things, that's why they exist. Doing it ranged is far from optimized, but being an LOTR version of robin hood is both fun and well withing the rules.
Check out durable arrow from elves of golarion. Reusable adamantine arrows are fine by me.
Oh, I don't know how I missed those. Yes with those it makes sense I figure.
Hmm, I'm actually pondering just getting a couple of normal durable arrows at 1st level, they're not horribly expensive.
I'm just wondering if I have say 40 normal and 20 durable arrows, which would you use first? The normal and replenish them whenever in town and just revert to durable when you can't refill and take the time after battle to collect them again, or use the durables first and switch to normal once a battle takes too long and you shot all 20 already?
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Well, for one thing adamantine blanched arrows don't ignore hardness... All they do is count as adamantine for DR.
Weapon Blanch: These alchemical powders have a
gritty consistency. When poured on a weapon and placed
over a hot flame for a full round, they melt and form a
temporary coating on the weapon. The blanching gives
the weapon the ability to bypass one kind of material based
damage reduction, such as adamantine, cold iron,
or silver. The blanching remains effective until the
weapon makes a successful attack. Each dose of blanching
can coat one weapon or up to 10 pieces of ammunition.
Only one kind of weapon blanch can be on a weapon at
one time, though a weapon made of one special material
(such as adamantine) can have a different material blanch
(such as silver), and counts as both materials for the first
successful hit.
So yeah, if all you care about is overcoming the DR, then yeah blanch is awesome for the price, but if you want to get passed hardness you're SOL.
And the rules ~clearly~ state that ineffective weapons don't do damage... find a ranged weapon that would be constructed in some way to be even somewhat effective vs chain or shackles and I might agree with you, but an arrow is not that tool. A thrown adamantine hammer, on the other hand, may have some chance of doing...In your game you are welcome to do as you please, but the rules clearly state that ranged attacks do 1/2 damage to item hp. If you were to shoot the chain that has a prisoner attached to a wall for instance (aiming for the ring or piton that actually attaches it, I'm aware of physics) you'd be looking at an 18 to hit and 10hp worth of damage to break. Adamantine items are supposed to be crazy powerful when it comes to breaking things, that's why they exist. Doing it ranged is far from optimized, but being an LOTR version of robin hood is both fun and well withing the rules.I just elected to take two adamantine arrows, as weapon blanche and cold iron arrows take care of most situations. Both blunt. With those you can generally shoot through chains, locks, manacles, etc., even with the half damage penalty. You can go completely green arrow with just a couple simple choices.If someone shot an adamantine arrow, blunt or not, at chain, a lock, manacles, etc in my game it would do 0 damage, or 1 damage if they rolled really well... on the other hand, a hammer and pick (normal old iron/steel) has a pretty decent chance of doing damage to the listed items... 2x normal damage and bypass hardness because that's what they were made to do.Ineffective Weapons
Certain weapons just can't effectively deal damage to certain objects. For example, a bludgeoning weapon cannot be used to damage a rope. Likewise, most melee weapons have little effect on stone walls and doors, unless they are designed for breaking up stone, such as a pick or hammer.
Being made out of adamintine makes it an effective weapon.
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Being made out of adamintine makes it an effective weapon... the wording of under "ineffective weapons" gives the specific example of a hammer trying to damage rope.. it doesn't matter what the hammer is made of. Lets pretend it ~was~ an adamantine hammer in the example under "ineffective weapons".. great, it has completely bypassed the ropes hardness, but it still does 0 damage, due to being a flat surface hitting a rope!
Where in the description of adamantine does it say it makes any weapon an effective weapon for breaking everything? It says it bypasses hardness less than 20, but makes no mention that a weapon that normally cannot damage an object (ex: rapier vs stone wall) now can. That you want it to because it is good for your character is meaningless. Yes, the section for "ineffective weapons" is open ended, and open to interpretation, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or is super-ceded by a weapon quality that doesn't have anything to do with how the weapon actually removes hps, just how it gets through DR.
I think they only way some will ever agree would be if the Dev's came out with an exhaustive list of every single weapon/item that is ineffective for every material... which will never ever happen. The description is vague because the possibilities are near infinite.
So, now we now how things would pan out in your game...
In my game, I would let a player try to shoot a manacle from across the room because it would be a satisfying moment of awesome for the player and create interesting in-game situations.
Incidentally, how I imagine arrow vs. iron bracket is quite different to hammer vs. rope.
The hammer's problem is the shape.
The arrow's problem is the fragility and lack of bracing.
So, in my game I would not allow a hammer to cut a rope but I would let an adamantine arrow damage an iron bracket because the two are not directly comparable and I can be that flexible.
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Oh, yeah, why buy adamantine arrows?
Eric Clingenpeel already nailed that.
Why buy Adamantine/Silver Arrows? Because I'm worth it. :-)
Okay, I'm a lawyer by trade and I think I can clear up something by reading it like a lawyer*: Looking at the description of Cold Iron weapons on page 154 of the Core Rulebook it says that "Weapons made of cold iron cost *twice* as much to make as their normal counterparts."
On page 143 we see that 20 arrows cost 1gp. Therefore, 20 cold iron arrows cost 2gp. (This was sort of acknowledged above).
Looking now at page 155, under alchemical silver items, it says "Ammunition +2gp." Hmm. Hence the question of whether it is per arrow or per 20. Ah! But we see under the description of Adamantine items it specifically says, "Ammunition +60gp *per missile*" This tells us the good people at Paizo know how to clarify and when they mean *per arrow* they explicitly say so.
Therefore, the logical conclusion is that 20 Alchemical Silver Arrows cost 3gp.
You're welcome. ;-)
Btw, if you're curious, by the same logic, 20 Mithral Arrows cost 1,500gp. Ouch!
*I recently had to figure this out myself, because I'm playing a Scout that I "converted" from 3.5.
An adamantine arrow dealing damage to a chain makes far more sense than a thrown hammer. A hammer might scuff the rust off of that dungeon chain holding your friend, but an adamantine arrow could theoretically separate a link and free them. Realistically, you'd have to figure the weight of the draw on the bow, the gauge, age, and condition of the chain, etc to determine if an arrow could break it... but we can't do that and come up with satisfactory results.
Bows also generate tremendous force. Regardless of sharpness or material used, if you land a hit with an arrow within a reasonable distance, more force is going to be applied to a more localized area.