if they CONSISTENTLY displayed the tactics, and maybe took some time to develop a "strategy guide" (like I mean lierally wrote one out of game that you could read) and put in the extra effort then I'd see my way to maybe a free teamwork TRAIT, but Feats is a bit kind... :)
I was thinking about doing this for players that use strategy and teamwork, giving them a reward for working together after a while. Do you think this is game breaking?
I'm considering this as the only way to obtain Teamwork Feats short of being an Inquisitor. What I've seen of the Teamwork Feats in play is that people select them, then one of them manages to die and the other has a dead feat. I can't say that's more fun than having the GM give out feats as a reward for playing your character in a certain way.
If the feats seem like to much look at the teamwork tactics or whatever they were called from 3.5 check the ph2
I was thinking about doing this for players that use strategy and teamwork, giving them a reward for working together after a while. Do you think this is game breaking?
No it isn't game breaking. It may be fun to give a feat to represent the effort put in by the party as a team. I would structure that feat to mirror the type of teamwork they displayed. For example, if they have a clever way of setting up flanking then give them a bonus feat involving flanking.
Just after our last session one of my players approached me with this very concept. I was skeptical and quite frankly didn't even consider it, but I'll admit this thread has me changing my mind.
Thanks!
As long as they still have the prerequistes for the feat, if you want to balance it better you can require some training time which they otherwise would be able to use to make gold or otherwise enable some training expenses.
In honesty if the party is a collection of powergamers looking for more power I would probably be less inclined to allow it. If players tend to optimize within RAW I find I feel more like I should restrain them by it, but with players that do not optimize much I am more lenient.
This was actually something I was thinking of doing for my players, and I think it makes perfect sense. I loved the concept of teamwork feats, but I hated the execution.
Mainly because most people want to make their characters themselves, and tend to do 80% of the planning for them behind closed doors before even knowing what classes their allies are making, and why wouldn't they, it is their character, and it sucks to risk it being weakened by risking "Player X", changing his mind, dying etc...
Teamwork feats can be very powerful. Paired Opportunist, Outflank, and combat reflexes means your melee types are now whirling, mobile food processors. Mmmm, AoO chains. Or even just paired opportunists with greater trip.
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I was thinking about doing this for players that use strategy and teamwork, giving them a reward for working together after a while. Do you think this is game breaking?I'm considering this as the only way to obtain Teamwork Feats short of being an Inquisitor. What I've seen of the Teamwork Feats in play is that people select them, then one of them manages to die and the other has a dead feat. I can't say that's more fun than having the GM give out feats as a reward for playing your character in a certain way.
Require only one character to have the feat. That character can designate a second character with whom he can use the feat. If that second character dies the first character can choose a new partner.
edit: You could also add a training time for the new partner. 1 week for full BaB, 1 month for 3/4, and 6 months for 1/2 BAB. Spellcaster feats could have a similar progression for full, 6 level and 4 level casters.
Interesting suggestion.
Just spitballing here, but what about letting the party select a teamwork feat in a manner similar to an individual PC getting to do so? Starting at 3rd APL, the party gets one teamwork feat, plus one more every two APLs thereafter? A PC must have been a member of the party for at least one full level before being able to use the teamwork feat.
A perfectly valid idea, AS LONG as you are careful which ones you hand out.
Watch out for coordinated charge, paired opportunists, butterfly sting, seize the moment, and out flank.
Any of those feats can be combined into a nasty little combo.
For instance, dual wielding wakisashis, with a 2 handed scythe wielder ally.
Butterfly sting, crit given to scythe wielder, he gets a automatic x4 crit, this causes the dual wielding character to get 2 attacks of opportunity, (outflank, seize the moment), which grants at least one (depending on your DM) back to the scythe wielder.
I doubt this is all the combos, just one that my group picked up at one point.
I think that butterfly sting isn't a teamwork feat. Not 100 % on that.
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The issue with giving out more feats, especially teamwork feats, is the ramifications of damage potential. When the party can reliably pump out 200+ points of damage in a round at level six, you need something that can take that much damage. A critter like that can often reliably take a PC down, dead, in a single round as well. So you're into rocket tag earlier than you can fix it in-party (raise dead, etc.). So you have to have hordes of mooks instead, which makes combats long and complicated...you see the problem.
I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just that you as the GM need to think it through before you let it happen.
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Interesting suggestion.
Just spitballing here, but what about letting the party select a teamwork feat in a manner similar to an individual PC getting to do so? Starting at 3rd APL, the party gets one teamwork feat, plus one more every two APLs thereafter? A PC must have been a member of the party for at least one full level before being able to use the teamwork feat.
You magnificent bastard, I think that's why people pay you for your ideas.
Stealing that for my group, and might steal that for a product of mine.
I think that butterfly sting isn't a teamwork feat. Not 100 % on that.
You're completely correct on that... only the person who hands off the crits needs to take it.
I was just pointing out that if he isn't careful with what he gives away a savy player could take advantage of it.
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For your information, I recently rewarded one of our player with an additional feat (any).
He is usually taking all notes, always at the gaming table almost everytime and takes time to explain to those who forgot or were not here what happened last time (since we only play once every 3 weeks or so).
So yeah you can give away anything ... Provided it doesn't break the balance of course.
I was thinking about doing this for players that use strategy and teamwork, giving them a reward for working together after a while. Do you think this is game breaking?
I was thinking about something similar. But to limit it, I was going to make it a magic instructional tome. If 2 people study this tome together over 3 weeks the permenantly get the feat X for free as long as both meet the prerequisites. The tome disappears after use.
I guess this is okay, but I'm not looking to give them treasure so much as reward the actions they have already taken.
I understand what you are saying. This was my way of keeping it in control. That would keep everyone from expecting to get all the feats they wanted by roleplaying some tactic repeatedly. If it turns out to be getting to powerful, I could just stop giving out those tomes. You could just as easily have someone offer to train them though.
Interesting thread. It makes me think that it would be cool to give teamwork feats to the TEAM not the individuals. So you need to have people who have established confidence to each other to get teamwork feats.
To avoid members of larger groups to get huge amounts of feats I would put the scale of required numbers literaly exponential (2+,4+,8+,16+, etc.) and apply the "Established Confidence" as a number of levels spend together or other form of closeness between team members.
So a Team of 4 pcs get to the 2nd level and they get to chose a Teamwork Feat.
You magnificent bastard, I think that's why people pay you for your ideas.
Stealing that for my group, and might steal that for a product of mine.
As long as I get credit for being a magnificent bastard, I'm fine with that. :)
I was thinking about doing this for players that use strategy and teamwork, giving them a reward for working together after a while. Do you think this is game breaking?
I've thought of doing this too. I'd thought to give one Teamwork Feat to all players. Do it at the start or end of a session when everyone is there to discuss the feats and how to use them.
By giving it to everyone you are not punishing those that don't get into teamwork with the other players. I picture that the arcane caster don't join in on flanking, for example - s/he shouldn't be punished for this.
Since nobody in my group is interested in playing a cavalier or inquisitor, I was considering basically just giving everyone who takes a teamwork feat the cavalier's Tactician ability. The teamwork feats help to make combat more interesting, but the requirement for more than one character to take the feat is too prohibitive. Honestly, you never get enough feats anyway, why restrict people's choices any further? I'm leaning towards eliminating a number of feats and just providing them as built-in options, anyway--I hate the assumption that any cool thing you want to try requires a feat.