Ranger/Inquisitor would make for an awsome hunter type. Judgments+bane+favored enemy.
Gunslinger/Inquisitor screams steampunk bad^$$
Oracle(Possessed)/Summoner(Synthesist) Thematically they sound great together. You and your eidolon being a true gesalt type being.
Sorcerer/Monk Had a chance to play this gesalt once, and it was just fun. Lots of magic, and little or no squishiness.
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The link doesnt prove your point. Though admittedly it doesnt prove mine either.What.
For example, a fighter 19/summoner 1 normally has a total BAB of +19 (+19 from fighter, +0 from summoner), and when fused with his eidolon this increases to +20 (+19 from fighter, +1 from the 1st-level eidolon).This is not 3.0 Monk Unarmed BAB.
Facepalm. Wow completely the opposite of what I said.
If you had a 19 levels if fighter and 1 level in synthesist when fused you would have a BAB of 1. It would work the same way in a gestalt game.
Oracle/ Sorcerer. Just because i think it would be fun. Also I don't think you can really effectively do this combination any other way.
I'm playing this right now, and it's looking like it's gonna be a Lot of fun ^-^
The link doesnt prove your point. Though admittedly it doesnt prove mine either.What.
For example, a fighter 19/summoner 1 normally has a total BAB of +19 (+19 from fighter, +0 from summoner), and when fused with his eidolon this increases to +20 (+19 from fighter, +1 from the 1st-level eidolon).This is not 3.0 Monk Unarmed BAB.
Was half asleep when I wrote that. Actually it does prove my point. ;-)
Summoner: Does a synthesist (page 80) use his own Hit Dice or his eidolon's Hit Dice for evolutions based on Hit Dice, such as Breath Weapon and Web? What about his BAB for making attacks?
The synthesist uses the eidolon's Hit Dice for the effects of evolutions, not his summoner Hit Dice or his total Hit Dice.
When fused, use the eidolon's BAB instead of the summoner's class BAB, and add in BAB from other sources as normal. For example, a fighter 19/summoner 1 normally has a total BAB of +19 (+19 from fighter, +0 from summoner), and when fused with his eidolon this increases to +20 (+19 from fighter, +1 from the 1st-level eidolon).
The link doesnt prove your point. Though admittedly it doesnt prove mine either.What.
For example, a fighter 19/summoner 1 normally has a total BAB of +19 (+19 from fighter, +0 from summoner), and when fused with his eidolon this increases to +20 (+19 from fighter, +1 from the 1st-level eidolon).This is not 3.0 Monk Unarmed BAB.Facepalm. Wow completely the opposite of what I said.
If you had a 19 levels if fighter and 1 level in synthesist when fused you would have a BAB of 1. It would work the same way in a gestalt game.
TOZ is correct, and he wasn't quoting you. He was quoting the official FAQ. You are incorrect. Your example is the opposite of the official FAQ response from the developers. If you had 1 level in Synth, and 19 levels in fighter, you'd have a 19 BAB when not fused, and a 20 BAB when fused.
TOZ is correct, and he wasn't quoting you. He was quoting the official FAQ. You are incorrect. Your example is the opposite of the official FAQ response from the developers. If you had 1 level in Synth, and 19 levels in fighter, you'd have a 19 BAB when not fused, and a 20 BAB when fused.The link doesnt prove your point. Though admittedly it doesnt prove mine either.What.
For example, a fighter 19/summoner 1 normally has a total BAB of +19 (+19 from fighter, +0 from summoner), and when fused with his eidolon this increases to +20 (+19 from fighter, +1 from the 1st-level eidolon).This is not 3.0 Monk Unarmed BAB.Facepalm. Wow completely the opposite of what I said.
If you had a 19 levels if fighter and 1 level in synthesist when fused you would have a BAB of 1. It would work the same way in a gestalt game.
The original comment
If you had a 19 levels if fighter and 1 level in synthesist when fused you would have a BAB of 1. It would work the same way in a gestalt game.
incorrect. You use the editions BAB for that class level just like with any other class combination. Ftr 19/ranger 1 has a BAB of +20, just like a Ftr19/synthesist 1 has a BAB of +20 when fused. That's already been addressed.
We are actually agreeing except that you think i'm saying something I'm not.
Man there is a lot of miscommunication going on here.
Yea, I think something is lost in translation.
In summary to try and clarify;
FAQ says;
use the summoners BAB when not fused + any other classes BAB you may have and... (example Ftr1/synthesist 1 not fused BAB =1)
Use the Edilions BAB (which is better than the summoners) when fused + any other classes you may have. (example Ftr1/Synthesist1 Fused BAB = 2)
Does that help?
Man there is a lot of miscommunication going on here.
Your face is a miscommunication!
Wait what? Where am I? Who are you? Who are all these people? Why does there mother dress them funny?
Like the fact that mdt was answering ForgottenRider and not you?
Yea, I think something is lost in translation.
I think that probably had something to do with it. ;-)
Edit: I realized it only after posting. my bad.
Your face is a miscommunication!Wait what? Where am I? Who are you? Who are all these people? Why does there mother dress them funny?
CAW!
I removed some posts. Please be civil when disagreeing.
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TOZ is correct, and he wasn't quoting you. He was quoting the official FAQ. You are incorrect. Your example is the opposite of the official FAQ response from the developers. If you had 1 level in Synth, and 19 levels in fighter, you'd have a 19 BAB when not fused, and a 20 BAB when fused.
I know, it was just that the FAQ example was completely the opposite of my example
Back on topic I think another cool gestalt would be alchemist 20/wizard 10 master alchemist 10 out of Magic of Faerun. Try to get a cohort with 7 level in cleric 10 master alchemist. For your 20 level alchemist grand discovery take Philospher's stone and try mixing it with potions of wish or miracle.
I just had mind burp:
Would a Knight/Cavalier be able to stack his challenges? They have the same name and are somewhat similar but are different abilities...
Thematically I could see a SGG Warmaster 20 / either Kinght or Cavalier 20
The Super Genius classes have some interesting possibilities. I'll see what I can come up with.
If by Knight you mean the 3.5 Knight, then yes you can. Be careful of your action economy though, I don't recall which actions the Knight's Challenges are.
Swwfit actions. You could challenge someone in one round, then challenge again in the next round. That's kinda hilarious to me, but the combination is pretty weak.
Now, a 3.5 Knight 11/Stalwart defender9//SGG Armiger 20 would be a sight to behold. All of those defensive powers! All that DR, that stacks too!!I gotta stat this to see how high his defense can go.
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lets look at the hitpoints of your average CR14 military officer with 14 constitution, toughness, and favored class bonus HP, this is a conservative HP estimate of the officer.
150 (15 maximixed D10)
30 (14 Con)
15 (Favored Class)
15 (Toughness)
210 total
need 224 lethal damage to actually kill or 448 nonlethal damage.
lets look at how much nonlethal damage this roguebarian can do. i will assume he has a pre rage strength of 18 (including items), double slice, and a +2 enhancement on the damage of his unarmed strikes. this is me being a little bit generous with the strength score.
147 (average of 42d6)
28 (7x4)
21 (7x3 rage bonus)
14 (average of 7d3 unarmed)
14 (7x2)
224 lethal damage or 224 nonlethal in your case. this doesn't account for damage reduction. if lethal damage, it kills, if nonlethal, he just hit the threshold where all future damage is lethal. but the officer could be saved by something as minor as a source of 2 or more additional points of constitution, or even, a source of Damage Reduction, a source Granting DR 5 should be sufficient, but a source Granting DR of 10 or 15 would be preffered. some Basic DR would have allowed him a turn to begin to flee and call for help.
if you allowed and used 3.5 edition sources, the craven feat can add an additional 84 to the total
if you allowed and used ultimate combat, there is a 3 feat combo that adds 273 to the average damage in this case.
if you combine the 2 with the rough baseline, you are looking at 581 damage if all attacks hit. but without these sources, you would actually need lethal damage to actually kill.
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@Fozbeck
with a 16 Dex, how is he getting greater 2WF, let alone improved. enhancement bonuses from items do not count towards feat prerequisites. and this roguebarian effectively dumped constitution. those rage HP won't last him forever. and his fortitude save is a joke compared to a proper barbarian.
He Wouldn't have survived very long if it weren't for the fact he gestalted barbarian and got maximized hit dice. i'm sure his will save sucked. why weren't you dropping the dominate spells and fear effects at this level?
and the CR14 officer who forgot to take toughness and favored class HP is a dead officer. i would reccomend that a smart officer take both and invest in a reliable source of damage reduction.
it seems that everyone can neglect thier constitution because they are getting free maximized hit dice.
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@Fozbeck
with a 16 Dex, how is he getting greater 2WF, let alone improved. enhancement bonuses from items do not count towards feat prerequisites. and this roguebarian effectively dumped constitution. those rage HP won't last him forever. and his fortitude save is a joke compared to a proper barbarian.
He Wouldn't have survived very long if it weren't for the fact he gestalted barbarian and got maximized hit dice. i'm sure his will save sucked. why weren't you dropping the dominate spells and fear effects at this level?
and the CR14 officer who forgot to take toughness and favored class HP is a dead officer. i would reccomend that a smart officer take both and invest in a reliable source of damage reduction.
it seems that everyone can neglect thier constitution because they are getting free maximized hit dice.
Actually, the enhancement bonuses do. It's temporary bonuses that don't count towards feats and such. Once the belt/headband is on for 24 hours, it becomes a permanent enhancement, thereby letting it count towards feats.
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i'm merely trying to find alternative causes besides the roguebarian. because Full BAB/Sneak attack isn't as nasty as what a caster can do. why is it that martials can't have nice things?
so a rogue/barbarian happens to be a strength based dual wielding monstrocity? it's using boots of haste. if you were really upset about this monstrocity, why didn't you use a squad of slightly lower leveled Gestalted Archer/Casters? i'm sure 4 of them at level 9 is a reasonable encounter, each one standing on 4 seperate sniper towers at least 100 feet away surrounded by dificult terrain is a fair encounter for him. its even more fair if the whole ground is difficult terrain, the sniper towers are 100 feet high and the archer/casters are fully pre buffed and perfectly optimized for this task.
you shouldn't be using solo opponents.
there is a reason my players ask for "Extra Lives". i am quite the Killer DM. it's also why i am the least chosen DM of my groups. i literally blow through character sheets by the dozen, every session.
when i give ludicrously high point buy allotments, extra lives, a tagalong NPC healer, a monty haul of consumable utility goods and loads of DM boons, i usually have a pretty good reason for it. it's my conscience trying to be nice before i unleash my nasty multitemplated class leveled abominations of death.
So... hey guys how about a Warmaster 20/ sorcerer 20? I was thinking warmaster could be a good substitute for the usual paladin/sorcerer combo.
back on topic.
Is a mage/fighter too vanilla for an awesome multiclass?
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DM metagaming is perfectly fair, especially when players use "overpowered" options. especially when you are talking about anything over 10th level.
if players can make knowledge checks and force you to read statblocks to them, than the DM can look at the character sheets of the players and target thier weaknesses.
As a part time DM, i used a lot of metagaming.
i'm sorry if i came across as vulgar.
i don't see the roguebarian as disruptive, i see it as finally making the rogue not suck. i beleive they should have been full bab in the first place.
back on topic.
Is a mage/fighter too vanilla for an awesome multiclass?
Not at all, as long as you take feats to allow you casting in armor. It doesn't have the benefits of combining magic and attack in one action that a gish class normally has, and can get quite MAD, but he has a bigger spell list and BAB so it works out.
The paladin/sorcerer combo is an old favorite since both classes get a lot from high charisma.
I like Hexcrafter Magus /Armored Hulk Barbarian, yes I know I cannot cast spells and rage or use spell combat if two handing but I can debuff the enemies and buff myself than go to town.
back on topic.
Is a mage/fighter too vanilla for an awesome multiclass?
Not at all, as long as you take feats to allow you casting in armor. It doesn't have the benefits of combining magic and attack in one action that a gish class normally has, and can get quite MAD, but he has a bigger spell list and BAB so it works out.
The paladin/sorcerer combo is an old favorite since both classes get a lot from high charisma.
Except I hate playing Paladin's. ;-) Truthfully I'd probably go ranger/wizard.
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TOZ is correct, and he wasn't quoting you. He was quoting the official FAQ. You are incorrect. Your example is the opposite of the official FAQ response from the developers. If you had 1 level in Synth, and 19 levels in fighter, you'd have a 19 BAB when not fused, and a 20 BAB when fused.I know, it was just that the FAQ example was completely the opposite of my example
Back on topic I think another cool gestalt would be alchemist 20/wizard 10 master alchemist 10 out of Magic of Faerun. Try to get a cohort with 7 level in cleric 10 master alchemist. For your 20 level alchemist grand discovery take Philospher's stone and try mixing it with potions of wish or miracle.
Scratch master alchemist for the cohort. Just go 17 lvls cleric. We'll both get cooperative crafting.
Except I hate playing Paladin's. ;-) Truthfully I'd probably go ranger/wizard.back on topic.
Is a mage/fighter too vanilla for an awesome multiclass?
Not at all, as long as you take feats to allow you casting in armor. It doesn't have the benefits of combining magic and attack in one action that a gish class normally has, and can get quite MAD, but he has a bigger spell list and BAB so it works out.
The paladin/sorcerer combo is an old favorite since both classes get a lot from high charisma.
With some feats to mitigate the armor penalty even Fighter/Wizard could be cool.
But for ultimate gish I vote Magus (maybe with an archetype that removes spellstrike) 20 / Duskblade 13 /some PrC 7I'm going to bed, but tomorrow I'l see what is the most magical rogue like I can make. I expect it to have some 4 or 5 classes...
If this stuff with Fozbek and Luminiere doesn't stop, I say we start flagging. I like this thread and don't want to see it burst into flames.
Druid|Magus with broad study.
If you can also multiclass, something like Druid N|Magus 6/Monk 1/Fighter N-7 with broad study.
What is broad study?
What is broad study?It's a Magus arcana which allow to use spell combat (and spellstrike) with an other spellcasting class. The requirement is magus level 6, so it's near useless for a multiclass character, but it should be usable for a gestalt character: it allow a gestalted druid to cast druid spells while full-attacking with wild shape.
I remember that now. I had forgotten what it was called.
It is, on the other hand, something that the DM will be absolutely forced to work around for every encounter for the entirety of the campaign. That is a lot of extra work for the DM.
Don't need a rogue/barian to smash those assumptions.
Cavalier/Paladin: Crushed.
Synthesist/Barbarian: Annihilated minced pounded pureed.
Magus/Any full bab class: Disintegrated.
Cavalier/Master Summoner: Good night. Sweet prince.
Gunslinger/Cavalier, Ranger, or Paladin: BOOM HEADSHOT!
Yeah the list goes on and one.
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It is, on the other hand, something that the DM will be absolutely forced to work around for every encounter for the entirety of the campaign. That is a lot of extra work for the DM.Don't need a rogue/barian to smash those assumptions.
Cavalier/Paladin: Crushed.
Synthesist/Barbarian: Annihilated minced pounded pureed.
Magus/Any full bab class: Disintegrated.
Cavalier/Master Summoner: Good night. Sweet prince.
Gunslinger/Cavalier, Ranger, or Paladin: BOOM HEADSHOT!Yeah the list goes on and one.
Fozbek said that not me
It isn't broken, except in the sense that it shatters the expected damage assumptions of the game.
It seems in my zeal to throw down a fast quick opinion late at night i dropped the wrong poster and forgot to add the "assumptions" line.
Geatalt, by definition, shatters all assumptions that the game makes. Damage is actually one of the easiest to smash. So in the sense that it takes a lot of work for a GM to balance you are absolutely correct.